Who agrees with me? re: selfishness and health care

Here's the situation, my wife went to the doctor last week and was diagnosed with mononucleosis. She is now calling and e-mailing me to go give money to a doctor for myself. My money for health care is in a HSA so it is making money. Of course if I give some of the money to a doctor then there is less money that it makes. When I reminded her of this she called me selfish.

Sorry but for me to remove money that is earning money because I don't feel well is what would be not only selfish but incredibly arrogant and egotistical.

Dude, you've just described the ultimate victory of predator capitalism-- a financial investment in one's own failing health. "The more I DON'T take care of myself, the more money I can make!"

When the wife is gone the BIG pile of money will help him score a new one.

Sorry I was wrong. The money was to be spend on himself. The OP was clear on that point. I just could not believe the man would be that greedy to value a few shekels over his own health.

:crazy:

DUer has no words for that kind of stupidity.

simply because I feel bad is selfish.

Quarantine yourself.

You wouldn't want to infect some poor uninsured person who doesn't have the luxury of an HSA, I'm sure. :sarcasm:

Ssshhhhheeeesh.

how the heck does the OP know he has mono when he hasn't been to the doctor? You need tests to prove you have that.

But being a possible carrier of a communicable disease and spreading it to others so you can make some money is not selfish?

You could kill an elderly person or someone else with a weakend immune system. Do you give a damn about that?

Or are you a shut in?

You could also reinfect your wife, causing her health care costs to go up, not to mention making her sick. Don't you care about your own wife?

Unless you never ever plan on leaving your home ever again.

This is foolish. I suspect you're trying to make a point about the absurdity of this type of Healthcare Tool. But, I don't think that the point holds.

So what's the deal? When people told you this is the reason HSA's are not a solution to health care, you said people would have to be stupid not to go to a doctor when they need to.

:shrug:

You need to see a doctor to make sure low immunities haven't allowed some other bacteria to get into your system. This illness can take over your body very rapidly and put you in the hospital in a hurry.

Go to the damn doctor.

But I doubt that is going to happen.

That's the exact problem with health care as it is. If it were free, you'd go to the doctor. Since people base it on what they can afford, they wait until their health is in a crisis, and outlandishly expensive. You are a burden to the rest of us by being irresponsible with your health.

Go To The Doctor.

and also proven all of us right about HSA's at the same time. They are not the solution because people won't use them for preventative care.

my HD plan provides for two preventative visits a year at a co-pay.


They are a solution because they allow me to pay less money to the insurance company and have more money that I control. It's not the most liquid because of the tax penalty if it is taken out for something other than medical but it is tax deferred growth and you can't beat that.

You'll see how dumb this is some day.

you never get rid of it

:hi:

And if not this time, it'll happen sooner or later.

:wtf:

"a real disconnect" appropriate in this scenario? ;)

and I second the :wtf: as well.

Potted plant.

No feelings. A rock. An island.

A fern.

NEVER drink with your HSA provider.

I thought I read that whole hilarious thread, and I don't remember the issue of race being part of it.

Will you drink with me, SAS?

Otherwise, you're on!:beer:

You won't have to force me to drink with you... especially if it's Guinness!

your health or your money.

It sounds as though your wife would prefer that you stick around in a healthy state; in which case, yes, one could call your attitude selfish. Moreover, if you allow yourself to get seriously ill, it will affect your earning capacity; and may mean that you have to spend a lot more on health care in the long run than if you'd dealt with the problems earlier.

Of course, the fact that you're even in this position is a good argument for 'socialized medicine'.

Anyway, I hope you stay in good health, and my advice would definitely be to get a check-up.

with a compromised immune system

I hope.

If you're being serious, you're willingly playing Russian Roulette with your life...as opposed to the millions of Americans who are forced to play that game when they feel sick because they can't afford coverage or a doctor. I was in that position last year, and putting off the expense nearly killed me.

to someone with a weakened immune system

I believed I had a pulled muscle. Turned out to be appendicitis, and by the time I got to a hospital it had ruptured.

Hope you're better at self-diagnosis than me, doc.

people actually being able to afford health care but refusing to spend for it? It seems as if you are.

How's that?

(high) Investment returns
(?) Spouse's health
(medium) Being called 'selfish'
(medium) Having a contageous disease
(low) Spouse's concerns regarding health of husband/self


Well, that's not a hierarchy that I'd choose but WTF? :wtf:

Why is she wanting you to go to the doctor? Is it just to see if you're infected with mono also?

If you are, unless things have changed in the past several years, there's nothing a doctor can really do for you.

Now if her reason was to find out if you're carrying the virus without a manifestation of symptoms so you can stay away from others and not infect them. Then I can see her calling you selfish.

Is there one now? When I had it there wasn't a thing they could do but tell me to stay away from others and drink plenty of fruit juice. :shrug:

Tell us something we didn't already know

And antibiotics don't do anything to treat the mono.

I read where you said you think you have it already. My suggestion is to stay away from people and watch for signs of a secondary infection. Barring that you'll live.

Don't you know anything about communicable diseases? Have you ever heard of Typhoid Mary?

that's not a concern.

Do you care?

A thrifty potted plant.

.... from FERNWOOD TONIGHT!

"I can do my work over the phone"... :freak:

I got the first part, not the second. Does she need money to continue her treatment?

original post, which was a little less than clear in it's own right.
This is a riddle, an enigma, a mystery...:beer:

Hardly a riddle.

you don't have to post your life-story @ DU.
Hoping all the best for your family!

Bizarre.

alone to collect its interest?

That might lead to a fatal heart attack if untreated/undiagnosed? Or a broken bone which might lead to disability or deformity if treatment were delayed or avoided? Or an infected wound that could lead to gangrene and loss of a limb if untreated?

The simple answer of course is that no one can force you to go seek medical attention even if common sense would seem to indicate it was a good idea. Would these scenarios prompt you to give up some of those HSA returns, as opposed to a suspected viral illness which you are likely to recover from with or without any specific treatment?

What if you were sick enough from mono to miss work, and your employer wanted documentation from a doctor?

Nice job though, RGB. :rofl: DU's very own Andy Kaufman:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x5330132

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=529387

On edit: If your wife lives far enough away that she has to call and email you rather than telling you to your face, you are probably in little danger of contracting mono from her anyway. ;)

She's called and e-mailed because she is at work.

your concern over your own health would exceed your concern over the value of the HSA as a financial instrument and cause you to fork over some of those dollars. If you were like other people we'd assume that "yes, there is such a threshold, somewhere".

The example of mono is interesting because it is a viral illness that doesn't require specific treatment, such as antibiotics or surgery, for a full recovery. Why it's almost a textbook choice for a thread or discussion such as this. It could be argued if you were specifically diagnosed with mono, that there might follow a doctor's recommendation for a period of bedrest or a period of isolation from coworkers etc.

Your choice of words in the original post and in some of your responses seems deliberately provocative, I somehow doubt that your wife's specific request or demand was for you to hand over your hard earned HSA money to a doctor, rather than being a request for you to seek medical evaluation which would, as a consequence, naturally require money for the professional's fee. But I'm sure any appearance of provocation is strictly accidental. :eyes:

I'm sure there could be a threshold at which point I would give money to medical providers. But I tend to keep my ego in check so if there is one, it's pretty high.

it would not be selfish of you to take care of yourself. It would be reasonable and responsible.

of its members are. :)

'Depend' doesn't have to mean in the financial sense.

Ever think of that?

Mono will leave you bedridden and DEPENDENT on others.

Why would you want to do that to her?

I would never dream of asking her to do anything like that for me

in your own nasty, sweat soaked jammies and vomit away to your miserly heart's content.

'Cause that's what having mono will do to you. :hi:


Better fill up a cooler of fluids by your bed too.

You won't have the strength to make it to the kitchen.

And I do not treat her as such. Just to let you know if you were thinking she's not the freaking cleaning lady either.

An ornament to be watered every two weeks.

How fabulous that it works so well for you. :eyes:

Usually...the way MOST personal, caring relationships work...is that when one person is ill (seriously or not), the other tries to at least make him/her comfortable. Hell, we take care of our pets when they get sick, don't we?

What fucked up dimension are you from?


Fern. You're a fern. A numb, thrifty fern.


You're a fern.

you go out, you could be exposing others to it, including people with compromised immune systems.

Your wife shouldn't be at work, either, unless her doctor said she's not contagious.

I wish all sick people would stay home and not spread their germs to everybody they come in contact with.

But hey, gotta stay productive right? :sarcasm:


I also wish contagious people would just stay home.

You fail to give us all of the details. Sorry, but I must admit your story is confusing and lacking in complete description.

The Epstein-Barr virus can cause a lot of complications and by not getting tested and treated for it, you are being selfish towards anyone who cares for you. And no matter what uninformed opinion you may hold about the virus, you can die from complications resulting from mononucleosis infection. Ruptured spleen, pericarditis, mycarditis, Bell's Palsy hepatitis, meningitis, as well as chronic EBV infection; these all can occur with mono. But hey, what do you care about? Getting a return on your deposit is much more important. :eyes:

You honestly mean that I and other human beings can die?

Did you think I don't know I am going to die one day?

I wouldn't even hazard a guess what you "know".

What I know is, these bullshit inflammatory posts of yours are tiresome. I'm sure you're having a blast, poking at DU with your absurdities, but you're no A_Schwarzenegger and this thread is no "Oscar".

She's not a criminal.

I forgot to put the :rofl: guy in there.

She may get ticked off if you end up re-infecting her though.

kidding.

Honey... I don't feel so pretty good.. :puke: :nuke:



Later, that same day.... :rofl: (cha-ching!)

Not as good as two of your other ones, but very good nonetheless.

Kudos!

You, sir, are a first-class performance artist, and I am being sincere. Bravo.

I didn't know that there were HSA's that earned interest.

I thought the IRS rules that established HSA's were pretty strict about that.

Am I wrong?

The contributions to your HSA are not subject to federal income tax. The money you contribute is often referred to as "pre-tax" dollars. The funds in the account can grow on a tax-favored basis; that is, they earn interest or other investment returns, which are not taxed if used for qualified medical expenses.

http://www.principal.com/bank/custserv/faq/hsa_basics.htm

thank goodness that fad was exposed and discredited before too many companies fell for it.

You're "degrading" him.

No feelings. Just taking up space.

A fern.

:P

I think I've missed something...

Someone will have a link, I suspect.

Two RGB classics:

"I don't drink with you":

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x5330132

"I got hit by a truck but don't want to report it or seek medical attention":

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=529387


I think many questions will be answered for you if you read through these, and you might be entertained as well.

Then why should we?

Go crawl off and puke in the corner for all I care.

Your health is an investment that gives infinitely greater returns than the palty few percent you get in your health savings account.

...and just as tight with your money. Seriously, I have had just as frustrating conversations/battles with DH. It seems as though I can identify with your wife's problem, so I will be a bit presumptuous.

Your wife doesn't want you to give money to your doctor. Your wife A) loves you and is concerned for you and your health, and B) needs you to cooperate so that you don't make her sick again. The fact that you would have to give money to your doctor has nothing at to do with what your wife wants.

In fact, my guess is that money > just about everything to you. That's just so sad.

:hug:

Or a troll, but is there a difference?

I hope this is an unexplained metaphor or satire, or possibly both.

If not, :wow: I feel sorry for your wife.

and decided "No" for you being on her insurance?

Her plan is a standard policy.

are you actually insecure about your choice or do you want an "amen" choir?

You put your money in tax free. That's your benefit. You spend it on medical or dental. Anything left over at the end of the year goes to the service company that handles your money. That's why everyone rushes to buy prescription glasses at the end of the year.

The money you put in an HSA is not taxable, you can invest it within parameters and the returns are not taxed while you leave them in the HSA or if you have to spend them on medical care.

two other companies I worked at, and you do not get to keep any monies left at the end of the year.

I know someone who just did that. She probably bought 4 or 5 pairs of prescription glasses and sunglasses so she wouldn't loose the money.

spend it? I was under the impression they all work that way.

Account" or HSA for short. And you don't keep the money.

enforcement.

http://www.hsa223.com/

The Benefits of Health Savings Accounts:

* 100% tax deductible

* Owned by the individual

* Portable, remaining with an employee regardless of employment

* Roll over from year to year and earn interest tax-free

* Can be invested, supplementing your retirement income

company for years. It was well known that any monies saved and not spent at the end of the year were lost.

there are two types of them one for un reimbursed medical and one for dependant care. Maybe they called them a "HSA" but they aren't. HSA's were created in the 2003 medicare bill.

Here's a pretty good comparison chart

http://www.wageworks.com/employee/learning-center/al_fsa_vs_hsa.htm

and it was for medical bills. And you lost at the end of the year. We didn't have a "FSA".
I don't understand the logic behind saving money in an account for health and then refusing to spend it when you are sick.

I edited the last post to give you a chart with the comparisons between the FSA and HSA. Not all companies offer both medical and dependant care options.


http://www.wageworks.com/employee/learning-center/al_fsa_vs_hsa.htm

going to the doctor and take a chance on their health for interest.

Are you trying to point out the flaw in reasoning by those who think that HSA's are the answer to the country's health care issues? If so, your post demonstrates it.

But then again, this is like the "I don't drink with you" post you had earlier, which was clearly a joke - if you were sincere in that post, you couldn't possibly be socially skilled enough to string words together coherently on a message board. So, these posts of yours also come across as an elaborate prank to see how far you can yank people's chains.

sorry I didn't just obey an order like a dog. Do alway find people acting as free human beings bothersome?

I'd answer that as probably not.

Are you a menace to others? Yes and it sounds like you need adult supervision.

Someone with mono insisting they can self-diagnose and is no harm to others even though their spouse apparently believes otherwise and asks them to seek treatment? That's just not very smart.

Not just a fern, sounds more like kudzu to me.

Are you saying if I went to the doctor then there would be no chance of me infecting anyone? Wow, I never knew that after someone saw a doctor they couldn't spread a disease, that is amazing.

And the "fern" thing was a person wanting to insult me because I don't view my wife as a source of slave labor. So you are agreeing with the person and saying that I should expect my wife to act as a nurse for me?

You sure worked hard on that one. I didn't say any of those things.


I agree with your wife - you do need some medical help.

(as I am today!), my darling and loving husband will either bring me dinner or make it for me when he gets home from work. He will also make me tea throughout the night. Not exactly wait on me hand and foot, but he will give me more care than normal. Why? Because he's a nice guy! And I do the same for him. It's not ACTING as a nurse. It's BEING a caring spouse.

And the idea that your lingering illness, most likely selfishly extended because you won't go to the doctor, doesn't put your wife out at all? Probably she's stewing at home, annoyed that she has such a stubborn husband who won't take care of his damn self. Even if you don't trouble her to do things for you, she's probably sick of your lying around on the sofa, all sick all day.

I am assuming this is an elaborate prank. Because the opposite assumption - that what you are posting is entirely true - would mean that you have some sort of mental issue. Perhaps you don't have a corpus callosum, or part of your cerebrum is missing or damaged in some way. But things like that would likely also show up in other symptoms, like an inability to write, think clearly, or control your bowel movements and drool. So, since you come across as someone competent to type on a keyboard, I am making the assumption that this is a prank.

don't do things the way you think they should have a mental illness.

I'm totally laughing my ass off. Tanks for the thread, RGBolen. It's a hoot and a half!

An insurance company will try to weasel out of paying for your mono so they can make money. You'll try to weasel out of taking money from the HSA to pay for mono treatment so you can make money. Meanwhile, the rest of us - many uninsured - are exposed to disease. But cheer up, at least you'll go to your grave wealthy.

You are a selfish asshole.

possibility.

where it is earning 0.5% interest. Is it selfish of me to let him starve?

Sorry, but for me to remove money that is earning money because he's a little hungry would be not only selfish but incredibly arrogant and egotistical.

is that selfish?

I'm not going to die any sooner because I haven't given money to a doctor to confirm or not confirm what I or my wife think I have. I will get better, maybe it will take a few more days for me to get better but I will.

I wouldn't have to purchase any food that way at least. But I might have to dip into my healthcare account. Oh the quandary!

(And you might spread your little virus to some unsuspecting person who then spreads it to someone they are visiting in the hospital with a lowered immune system, who then dies because of your irresponsibility. But this whole thread is a farce anyway, so enjoy.)

so that you can behave accordingly.

Here's I'll give you my diagnosis. Neither you nor your wife have mono. Go kiss everyone you know.

spreading a virus without going to a doctor.

That's not a question.

a doctor.

That's fine, if nothing can be done that requires a doctor, and you know the treatment, it sort of makes sense.

But often, he who doctors himself has a fool for a patient, since you haven't been to medical school, and this disease can be serious in that it takes a long time to recuperate from it. And there can always have been updates and there might be a treatment you consider worthwhile.

Your wife just considers it serious enough to warrant going to the doctor. Everyone has their threshold for going to the doctor. Personally, mono would cause me to seek medical advice. I wouldn't do it for an ordinary sore throat or cold, but if it didn't go away quickly, then I might seek medical advice.

I don't think it is selfish but you have a high bar of confidence in your own estimate of your health. I suppose if it were any other disease which you believe a doctor would be able to alleviate in some way you can't, you'd go.

:shrug:

Pro-job offshorer, pro-free trader, economic hard-right conservative. Usually the hit-and-run kind.

So this really doesn't surprise me. At all.

those right wingers that say (see? they can afford it and are too tight to spend it) TRUE.

He is, without a doubt, the weirdest poster on DU.

aspergers syndrome?

It was cute.

What is the money for? Please explain.

just a business arrangement. Poor woman sounds like she got the real short end of the stick in this deal. He makes a fern sound loving and caring partner.

There wasn't a modicum of any emotion in any of his answers except mine, mine, mine, don't need her, she doesn't need me, mine, mine, mine. That lady has my deepest, most profound sympathies.

I understand that you are stashing away money for your future.

But if she's asking you to take care of your health, it's because she loves you - nothing selfish or egotistical about it. If you can explain to her that you can ride out the mono without a doctor, agree to quarantine yourself and ensure that you will infect no one - including her, then it makes sense. But if there is something a doctor can do to keep you from infecting others, then you should spend the money, and it would be far from selfish - it would be a benefit to others for you to do so.

compared to earning a few dollars more interest?

After all, interest and laissez-faire capitalism are what made this country great.

I mean, even if it builds up throughout the years, can you touch it for personal spending?

medical there is a penalty on top of the taxes.

If it's not for use in the likely event that you actually need to pay for health care before 65?

If my leg were broken or I had a heart attack then I would need to purchase medical services. And the money in the HSA is for that. If a situation is catastrophic enough the high deductible insurance plan kicks in, that's a risk we have in being alive. I just don't feel my current situation requires a purchase. And I don't feel that not purchasing something for myself is a selfish act.

What it does is instead of giving the bulk of what I spend on health coverage to an insurance company I give a small amount to the insurance company and the bulk of it into the HSA. If it gets used then it gets used. I want to use as little of it as I can. As I get to retirement age hopefully it will have built up to a nice supplement to retirement savings, that would never happen if I were paying the bulk of the dollars to an insurance company.

to say that you definitely won't get ill before 65. edit: There's simply no way to possibly know that; and the people who designed these HSAs, think you don't know the difference. They bet on your own sense of invincibility. And they will win.

You're confusing saving for healthcare with retirement savings. You're better off with a Roth IRA in that case. Sorry, you're not coming off like a grand financial whiz either.

And in this particular case, it's not you but the people around you who need to be protected. I would think you'd want to do see a doc to protect them (in a proactive sense), but it appears not.

Either you're

1)jerking our chains

2)preparing for some quality time on the couch.

The less you can use on medical expenses out of the HSA the better, as I said it can be as much of a supplement to retirement income as I can make it.

I don't think I won't be ill or not have to use money out of it before age 65, or probably even 55 or 45 but I am going to use as little of it as I can.

Seeing a doctor isn't anything magic that prevents the spread of a virus, I'm taking steps to lower the risk of spreading it.

You aren't qualified to make those distinctions.

You are paying needlessly too scrupulous attention to a faulty financial tool at the expense of caring for your wife.

I'm glad I don't have to live with you. And the fact that there isn't a person in this thread who agrees with you ought to give you pause. If you have an conscience.

Sheez.

I'm qualified to decide when I purchase medical services.

you wouldn't have married