Elizabeth Holtzman: "The President Could Be Subject To Prosecution-FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE"

Elizabeth Holtzman
Beyond Mukasey's Confirmation, White House Liability Issues Loom Large

Even if immunity from prosecution under the War Crimes Act stands, it only applies through 2006, not for mistreatment of detainees after that. And the 1994 anti-torture law applies throughout.

Posted November 13, 2007 | 12:26 PM (EST)

Though it failed to send his nomination the way of Robert Bork, Attorney General nominee Michael Mukasey's evasiveness on the definition of torture has done something historic. It has made it unmistakably clear to mainstream observers that the President may be criminally liable for violating anti-torture laws. Criminal liability of this White House will have wider repercussions than Mr. Mukasey's confirmation. It will reverberate through his tenure as Attorney General, and beyond the end of the Bush administration.

................

The War Crimes Act of 1996 makes cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment of detainees a violation of the Geneva Conventions and a federal crime. In addition, a 1994 law, 18 USC Section 2340 (a), makes it a federal crime to engage in torture outside the US, it also applies to those who conspire with (or aid and abet or order) torture outside the US. Both statutes apply to any US national, including the President, the Vice President and other top officials, as well as subordinates, such as CIA officers or other US personnel. If the President ordered, directed or authorized waterboarding or other forms of torture or mistreatment, he may have violated these laws. They carry the death penalty in cases where victim dies. In such cases there is no statute of limitations, so the President could be subject to prosecution for the rest of his life.

..............................

As Attorney General, Mr. Mukasey can try to plug these holes. He may shield President Bush and others from criminal liability; he may resist appointing an independent prosecutor to investigate White House actions. But he cannot, as the 2002 Gonzales memo recognized, tie the hands of future prosecutors. In lethal cases our anti-torture laws have no statute of limitations. Sooner or later, those who violated US law will be held accountable to them, if not by Mukasey, then by some future AG.


Former Congresswoman Elizabeth Holtzman served on the House Judiciary Committee during Nixon's impeachment. She co-authored the 1973 special prosecutor statute, and co-wrote (with Cynthia L. Cooper) the 2006 book The Impeachment of George W. Bush.

more at:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/elizabeth-holtzman/beyond-mukaseys-confirma_b_72242.html

living in his private bubble surrounded by syncophants and suck ups while relaxing on his own private fortress in a non extradition country surrounded by blackwater yelling "neener neener neener"

where he 'll be ministered to by the Reverend Sun Myung Moon. He and Rumsfeld and Cheney will play golf and go quail hunting together. And there's plenty of brush to clear down there as well.

It's hard to go anywhere, see anything, hear anything these days without someone mentioning the henious crimes of our present administration. I'm hearing it from Democrats, from Republicans, even devout conservatives. I'm hearing it from religious right wing "GOD FEARING" constitutionalists and fundamental Christian types. As a nation we are all crying out for JUSTICE. We want justice for the crimes that George Bush, Dick Cheney, and thier henchmen have committed. We need it for our nation to heal. We demand it for our values and national morale to be somewhat restored. The world needs to know that we will not turn our backs on our duties to carry out the same justice that we supposedly gave the Iraquis with Sadam Hussein. We have our own despotic dictator and cruel murderer to deal with and a dirty cave with rats and food dropped down a hatch is too good for these monsters.

I have posed the question regarding trial and punishment to several of our upcoming candidates. Of course the Republican idjits like Mitt Romney and Guliani all go right along with Bush and want to "DOUBLE GUANTANAMO!!" and other absolutely stupid ideas. I've heard back from the Obama campaign that his position when elected is to appoint a new Attorney General and an extended staff to open and research all of Bush's former policies and documents and with careful collection of evidence they anticipate that legal proceedings will take place. A soft approach this early in the game, but at least it's a start. I don't know who or what part of our govt. will be in charge of prosecuting the President but you'd better bet that I'll be in that crowd protesting any leniency for this criminal.

It is so important for our nation to see justice and a thourogh punishment carried out for George Bush, Dick Cheney, and Rumsfield and many others who have continually lied and manipulated our constitutional rights, negated the Geneva Conventions (oh, they're just a guideline) and thrown our country into a horrible endless war that has cost us nearly 4,000 American lives and nearly millions of Iraqui lives, as well as trillions of dollars.

Their accounts and assets should be frozen and they should be made to pay reparations to our soldiers and their families. They should be imprisoned and waterboarding practiced on them till they cough up the other dirty secrets they've been concealing. While the older set like Rumsfield and possibly Cheney may not have more than a decade left on this earth, they should be treated to the same miserable conditions that they imposed on so many innocent people. George Bush should be publically executed and his head posted on the spire of the Congress building as a warning to any despot that would try to come to power. Let his blood stain the white marble so that it remains a permanant message to the world and reminder of JUST punishment to the American people.

Their families should experience the humiliation and pain that those in Guantanamo have faced. Their supporters should have to live the rest of their years in poverty without health insurance, just to show the rest of the world that we do not take such crimes lightly.

Warring, murdering, thieving, criminal despots.

Hear! Hear!

:kick:

:(

Kidding

:evilgrin:

Welcome to DU!!

But nice speeches don't mean a damn thing unless backed by action.

htthttp://www.usalone.com/hres333.php
p://www.usalone.com/last25.php?paper=1&qnum=pnum709

CONSTITUTION !!! Switch to decaf man.

for less reasons. While I don't advocate going to war lightly, I'm sure there should be no problem going into Paraguay and snatching Bush and his cronies out like we did with Manuel Noriega if they won't give him up - at least it would be more justified than most of the wars that we have instigated.

rfranklin

If the american public, and the "next" President of the united States are doing its deeds as they should do, not a single place on this earth wil be smal or deep under ground enogh, so the justise of this gentleman and hes gang, are not followed true...

If half, or a 1/3 of what is coming out of this Administrations misgiving, he would in a normal world be sended to prison for the rest of his life.. Or maybee even death penalty.. I dont aprove death penalty of many grounds, but if the president,and his Administration are given the rest of their life in a cell, I wil be verry happy...

But I am afraid that Bush, and his gang wil not be one day in prison, they live out their life, as free sitizen of the United States, and wil never se the cell they really deserve afther their deeds..

I guess, that if the founders of the States have known what is happeing to their republic, their wil tear their hair of, and cry WHY...

Diclotican

Sorry my bad engelish, not my native language

Witness Rummy fleeing across Europe. None of these men will rest easy.

and another, and another. Of course, if Halliburtion should relocate to Paraguay because they've partnered with Bechtel to own the aquafir ...... then yes, Cheney will go there - more like Wyoming and Texas, in places. They'll be in business again - the water business. Of course, they may be encircled by countries they they couldn't buy out. Who knows for sure. Ruin the North American continent, but perhaps they might do better in South America. Can't contaminate the aquafir, after all.

Campaign on prosecution for Bush. They'd reap huge campaign donations.

AFTER leaving office. Then they will be without protections and pardons.

I hope the law hounds all of them involved in the * cabal to their graves. I hope they look over their shoulders always worried that one of their many crimes will catch up with them..

Many of the Nazi's that were able to hide in America looked over their shoulder for 60 plus years before they were caught.

Here's to misery for them for the rest of their lives.

they deserve to hunted down and persecuted.

Drive 'em (back) to drink. Wreck their families. Make their children hate them and their spouses leave. Drain their fortunes and those of their "supporters" in court case after court case. Never let them sleep. Spit on 'em in public, if you get the opportunity.

Deliver them in chains to the Hague.

Nothing but a blow job, that is.

Turnabout, it seems, is EXTREMELY fair play. NEVER let them rest. Picture them looking furtively over their shoulders and skittishly scanning every corner of every room they enter for the rest of their lives. Picture them hitting the Maalox bottle first thing in the morning, EVERY morning, for the rest of their criminal lives. Make them wish to GOD they'd simply been IMPEACHED and gotten it over with.

Well put.

to this fugging coward and war criminal.

Excellent, in its most constitutional form. MKJ

and end up on a family plantation in Paraguay.

would it be legal to piss on his grave then?

But expect to stand in a very, very long line.

chimp that I would frame and hang on my wall!

those unspecified crimes.

president. This is why they usually keep pardons until the end of the term, helps keep some of the flak down as well.

Thing about bush is that his entire cabal could be up for prosecution. A few times in the past, members of a cabinet have been prosecuted after leaving office, under Grant and Harding I believe. However, no president has ever been brought up on charges after leaving office. This could be a first, as we are not merely talking corruption here, but possible/probable criminal behavior, certainly intent, (not sure if intent would fly though).

I know that if I were being inaugurated as PotUS, I would use the interim period between election and the inauguration to have some serious lawyers looking into charges, and then have bush and cheney arrested immediately after I was sworn ing. US Marshals arresting them in full view of the world would have a dramatic effect, and I am willing to bet that the crowd would cheer, and the world would breathe a sigh of relief...:D

A President CAN pardon himself. The Pardon Power of a US President is limited only by cases of impeachment.

"The President ... shall have Power to Grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment."

Here's a very good summary of the Pardon Power:

http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_pard.html

any president going to that length, it seems incredible that one wold try such a thing.

However, since it hasn't been attempted in the past, it might be that that is why I figured it could not happen.

Thnks for the link, and while I am not a strict Constructionist, by the wording, it appears cut and dried...:hi:

That pretty much sums up this president. How many times have we said that? This isn't "any president", this president will go to any and all lengths to further his (their) agenda.

There is no telling what this moron would/could do.

He seems to truly belive that an American presidency is some type of Royal venture for 4 or eight years. Easily, the worst president ever.

If we are in the middle of a war with Iran, would it be a good time for a presidency change? I am sure the neocons would support him as well as many corporations.

"a warm, caring human being." :puke:

but, can the President issue a pardon for someone who hasn't actually been charged with a crime? If no one brings any charges against either Bush or Cheney before they leave office, can he issue preemptive pardons to himself and Cheney??

They can do any damn they they want to--whether we let them get away with it is a whole nother question.

No more Nice Nation, putting it all behind us. Too many people have been maimed or killed for life.

If you check the link I posted above, it specifically mentions that.

One other note: You cannot refuse a pardon. Also see the link for details on that. It did actually happen once.

<snip>

The "constitutional challenges" would come primarily from the power of U.S. presidents to grant pardons under Article II, Section 2 of the Constitution, which states in part, "and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment."

In other words, under this Article, a sitting president can grant him or herself a pardon. The Founding Fathers intended this in order to prevent the Executive Branch (the president) from coming under the direct control and influence of the Judiciary Branch (the courts).

Former Supreme Court Chief Justice Thurgood Marshall once summed up the wisdom of the constitutional provision as follows: "An attempt on the part of the judicial department of the government to enforce the performance of such duties by the President might be justly characterized, as an absurd and excessive extravagance."

Richard Nixon was the only president ever pardoned. President Gerald R. Ford, Nixon's successor in office, pardoned him from prosecution for alleged crimes stemming from the Watergate scandal.

<snip>

http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/news/aa041200b.htm



Truly, my bad...I thought otherwise, perhaps in the thought that no president would ever stoop so low; or perhaps because I had greater hopes that a president would never be so scurrilous as to even think of such a thing.

"The President ... shall have Power to Grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment."

That may take care of one country...ours. But there will be other countries that will be hounding this crew. Presidential Pardon does not apply to the international court.

out of his pardon, bingo we got him. lol I firmly believe he will skate.

by the rest of the world. They could still be brought to justice in the Hague even if Bush resigned, pardoned Cheney and then Cheney pardoned him.

She brilliantly points out that Mukasey's necessary evasion confirms the war crimes of Bush and his collaborators.

Justice will not sleep, and the outrage and horror felt by so many people will not fade.

criminal protected by our cmw would be "Subject To Prosecution-FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE"!

My loathing of this man has gotten so strong that I feel nauseous at the sound of his voice. I immediately turn off any radio or TV that broadcasts it.

bu$h gives me the creeps!

to avoid arrest:

"Former U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld fled France today fearing arrest over charges of "ordering and authorizing" torture of detainees at both the American-run Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq and the U.S. military's detainment facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, unconfirmed reports coming from Paris suggest.

U.S. embassy officials whisked Rumsfeld away yesterday from a breakfast meeting in Paris organized by the Foreign Policy magazine after human rights groups filed a criminal complaint against the man who spearheaded President George W. Bush's "war on terror" for six years."

http://www.alternet.org/story/66425/

So, maybe there is hope that justice will be done.

Rumsfeld's lawyer, William Haynes, is also the Pentagon general counsel. He is silencing witnesses in a fashion similar to the way Fred Fielding has performed for the White House.

They're gagging judges and such now, over the Gitmo atrocities:

"... Mr. Haynes is one of the prime torture conspirators, and the author of a December 2002 memorandum endorsed by Rumsfeld that has already provided the basis for two criminal indictments of the former Defense Secretary. Haynes is one of the Bush Administration officials most likely to be indicted for his role in the torture scandal when he steps down from office. Mr. Haynes has a strong reason to prevent Col. Couch from testifying, since almost anything he would have to say would be embarrassing to, and might even incriminate, Mr. Haynes."


http://harpers.org/archive/2007/11/hbc-90001623

QUOTE: But then let’s consider the other side of this. The Constitution, federal law and three rulings of the Supreme Court all make clear that oversight of the Military Commissions process is vested in Congress. So on what basis do Pentagon officials obstruct Congress’s exercise of its oversight function? Mr. Whitman evidently feels under no compunction to explain that. Perhaps because he has no explanation UNQUOTE


Congress also has the responsibility to ensure that all legislation passed by Congress is carried out in the manner Congress intended --- i.e., with the spirit and intent Congress intended.

Therefore, they could have acted to stop the Signing Statements long ago ---

Interersting tidbits!

"At his Harper's blog, Scott Horton demonstrates how the architects of George W. Bush's filthy torture regimen are now holding positions that allow them to protect themselves and their masters from the legal consequences of their actions."


"... The Democratic nominee looks certain to be Hillary Clinton -- whose husband buried a whole boatload of previous Bush crimes after he took office in 1993, as Robert Parry reports in his book, Secrecy and Privilege. If Clinton I had allowed justice to pursue the various Bush I scandals to the end, we would have been spared the hideous, murderous farce of Bush II's reign. The name of Bush would have been so rightly tainted that L'il Pretzel would never have gotten anywhere near close enough to steal the 2000 election. Is there anyone who believes that Clinton II would pursue Bush II's manifold crimes any more diligently than her husband?"


"No mainstream Democrat will ever allow full-fledged criminal investigations and prosecutions of Bush II officials for torture and the war crime of military aggression. You know and I know that's not going to happen. We will get, at most, some soaring rhetoric about "healing national wounds" and "coming together again" and "moving on." (With the outside possibility of a few small fry being offered up as sacrifices, to let the Dem president preen as the "restorer of the rule of law" -- and also purge the Republicans, and Bush, of the worst taint: "Hey, it was a few bad apples, and now they're gone. We've got a clean slate!")"



http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/cgi-bin/blogs/voices.php/2007/11/09/p20920

DU discussion:http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=2269467

At least people dillusions are now starting to be shattered. We are in a real mess.

Didn't get to the links --- bookmarked ---
thanks!

war criminal indictment

. . . even more pertinent and troubling.

sit's on one of the world's larget freshwater aquifers; and near another large tract of land owned by reverend moon.

Paraguay does not have extradition and the United States can't bring him back.

can get shielded or immunity from any crimes.

fly

to Venezuela for trying to overthrow or undermine their duly elected government?

:)

for very long. But, as they say, only the good die young. That means we might be stuck with that fucker for another 40 years.

The old G---, (Poppy) just survived another parachute jump. MAybe ther is no God after all!

disease, I really don't care what he suffers from, cause he has caused so much suffering for others, forgive him??? never.

19, 2008. Then, Bush will resign and Cheney will be sworn in as President. Cheney will then pardon Bush one day before a new president is sworn into office. And, there won't be a damned thing any of us can do about it.

Another reason to impeach these bastards, now.

subject to the laws of our class. If you haven't noticed you haven't been paying attention. The only people that got prosecuted where those like Duke that got thrown under the bus by them. All of our investigations especially the lengthy Fitzgerald investigation have gotten us nowhere. They have money, press, corporation support and everything. They are immune.

.

They really do need to redo the thing with pardons and the power of commuting a sentence though, make it so the president has to get the ok from the senate before such things can be issued and I doubt it will really affect the issuing of pardons much because most presidents only seem to issue them to people after all who are currently in jail serving a sentence for a crime.
Seems most presidents these past few years use it to cover there own asses mainly like Bush did with Libby or Bush Sr did in regards to the Iran/Contra affair.

There are NO CLASSES. It isn't about "class" it's about moral ethical behavior,or lack thereof. Put that koolade down!
That's how THEY are framing it!
I am from their "class" if you want to state it that way , although Bush has some cruel murderous Irish Overlords in his background, I can trace my ancestor's integrity back to King Louis 14th. Yet I have just been selected to freeze to death by Bush's veto of the energy bill yesterday!
I get a sense that my family has been opposing these theives for he last 3 centuries on these shore...........!

Here is what wikipedia has to say: "In the United States the upper class, also referred to simply as the rich, is estimated to constitute less than 1% of the population. It consists of those with great influence and wealth. The main distinguishing feature of the American upper class is its ability to derive enormous incomes from wealth rather than work.<1><2><3> CEOs, heirs to fortunes, successful venture capitalists, as well as celebrities, are considered members of this class by contemporary sociologists, such as James Henslin or Dennis Gilbert.<1> There may be prestige differences between different upper-class households. Bruce Willis, for example, might not be accorded as much prestige as Bill Clinton.<2> Yet, all members of this class are so influential and wealthy as to be considered members of the upper class."

The people in the upper class enjoy having good lawyers to get them special treatment. Most, not all, look down their noses at the rest of us. And they influence our politics and have laws passed exempting themselves from taxes and other laws that we in the lower classes have to adhere to.

Welcome to DU, but please "put that koolade down" isn't nice.

We'll just extradite the SOBs.

Better to have him tried in another country so there can't be any claims that his prosecution was politically motivated and no other president can pardon him at a later date.

Guiliani will cut a deal that if Rove can deliver the WH, his DOJ will not prosecute and if anything does come up, he will hand out a pardon.

just before he leaves office. In fact I am willing to bet good money that there will be a stack of pardons waiting for Bush to sign just before he goes out the door.
The only one who has anything to fear is Bush himself and knowing him he will try to pardon himself if a republican does not win the office and cant do it for him.

that's what we want.

You can't go after the moran in first place until you get the monster in 2nd place out first.

because they both know that in the end impeachment will fail because of the lack of votes.
We have seen how tight the GOP controls its members when its something important and how they move in lock step like good little soldiers and thats what will happen on any impeachment vote.
The other resign he wont resign is I bet that they are planning to turn the attempt at impeachment around and put the democrats on the spot in order to hopefully embarrass them and maybe get the swing voters to vote for a republican in the whitehouse or atleast republicans in the congress and senate to regain control.
Either way its a potential win win for the republicans with nothing to really lose since Bush nor Cheney will be impeached.

the hearings educate people.

There's one of two choice:
1) impeachment hearings do come about and the country learns all that has been done in violation of the Law
and the Constitution and get madder than hell, and also madder at hell at their repub reps, and if the repub reps want to keep their seat, go along with the
impeach hearings.

Hearings do not necessarily result in impeachment, but will be a footnote in history to what Cheney tried to do, just as it is a footnote that Clinton had sex in the oval office. tsk tsk.

2) the judiciaries do vote yes Cheney should be impeached, then criminal charges are brought, Cheney resigns, and Bush will pardon him before treason charges can be brought.

3)And then the Judiciary is forced to move onto impeaching Bush.

Before Nixon was impeached, they removed Agnew, VP from office for taking bribes when he was a governor.
They had to remove him before they could begin impeachment against Nixon, so that Agnew would not become Pres.

Nancy would not become veep as I remember. The pres gets to choose a replacement , but if I'm wrong please correct that.

So if he chose Giulliani to finish out the year, you really think Giuliani would be re-elected? Any republican he chose would not be re-elected.

Correct me, cant google right now, but didnt Ford only finish out Nixon's term and was not re-elected?

They knew about alot of the questionable stuff in 2004 don't forget yet there were still many who voted for Bush and Cheney.
Also why can't he pardon him now before any hearings for impeachment exactly? If he is pardoned after all then technically they can't impeach him for a crime since he was pardoned for the crime can they?
Oh as for Ford yup he lost the election to Carter who then lost it to 12 years of republican rule.

Do you think he left the WH so he can do more of his dastardly deeds "off the record", so to speak?
You just KNOW he's up to something!

... either Cheney or Junior for war crimes or violations of international law. It's a bet that I'd be happy to lose ... but I wouldn't.

write in Dennis Kucinich, he'll prosecute!

will do it because they aren't controlled by the cabal that propped up bush and every other president since truman.

there has to be another big purpose for buying
94,000 acres.

Training ground for his own private blackwater army ?

Kind of gave me a warm fuzzy feeling...

From Wonkette:
The Cuban news service reports that George W. Bush has purchased 98,840 acres in Paraguay, near the Bolivian/Brazilian border.

The Paraguayan Senate voted last summer to “grant U.S. troops immunity from national and International Criminal Court (ICC) jurisdiction.”

Immediately afterwards, 500 heavily armed U.S. troops arrived with various planes, choppers and land vehicles at Mariscal Estigarribia air base, which happens to be at the northern tip of Paraguay near the Bolivian/Brazilian border. More have reportedly arrived since then...

Why might the president and his family need a 98.840-acre ranch in Paraguay protected by a semi-secret U.S. military base manned by American troops who have been exempted from war-crimes prosecution by the Paraguyan government?"


http://wonkette.com/politics/george-w.-bush/we-hate-to-bring-up-the-nazis-but-they-fled-to-south-america-too-208549.php

connection to Rev. Moon and Jenna's little excursion to the area.....very interesting. Easy to Google. Unfortunately I printed everything out and gave to a friend....so I have no links....wait maybe I DO....if so I'll come back and edit.

Edit: Here is one from right here on DU!http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=2567178

:grr:

He's earned it.

...is that we could see a day when Scooter Libby visits George Bush in prison.



K&R!!!

And convicted. And imprisoned. It really is that simple.

We used to execute traitors. Now we let them steal elections and destroy our country. Quite a change!

and maybe not should Hillary get the presidency. Remember how Democratic US Rep. Lee Hamilton of Indiana let Ronald Reagan off the hook during Iran Contra. Think Hillary's Attorney General would be any different.

A President Hillary would pardon him, lest she anger her buddies in the Rich Club.

But, I feel strongly she'd select an Attorney General who she knows would keep a hands off policy.

DECEMBER 1 2008...... BUSH PARDONS CHENEY FOR ANYTHING HE MAY EVER HAVE DONE OR EVER WILL DO

DECEMBER 5 2008...... BUSH RESIGNS THE PRESIDENCY, ALLOWING CHENEY TO BE APPOINTED PRESIDENT

DECEMBER 10 2008..... CHENEY PARDONS BUSH FOR ANYTHING HE MAY EVER HAVE DONE OR EVER WILL DO

---------

AT SOME FUTURE DATE...... BUSH AND CHENEY BURN IN HELL FOR WHAT THEY HAVE BROUGHT TO THE WORLD

FUTURE DATE PLUS ONE..... MAJOR PARTY AT MY HOUSE... I'LL BRING THE CHIPS

and all his cronies, all Enron, Halliburton, Exxon, Blackwater, and other helpful corporation execs. Dec 2, they all move to Dubai to live happily after.

Dec 3, Nancy Pelosi states that all further criticism and prosecution of former Bush administration and friends is off the table.

Dec 4 Nancy moves to Dubai.

The laws are only good if someone will actually enforce them. I'm not holding my breath. I've grown too cynical to get excited over this. What happened to the Downing Street memo hearings? What has happened to all the supboenas the White House has ignored? What has happened to the recommendations of the 911 commission? Where are we on Kucinich's move to impeach Cheney?

There are two classes of people in the world: the haves and the have-nots. Even though the haves make up a miniscule percentage of the population, they have convinced enough of the have-nots to support them in their quest for and retention of power. Labels such as "Republican" and "Democrat" have no meaning. Know them by their actions: Pelosi and Reid stifling the impeachment process is a prime example.

We all know Bush and Cheney should not only be impeached but tried for war crimes in a world court. In a perfect world that would happen. We all know this is not a perfect world.

I look forward to "smoking him out of his hole" there.

Or it will be "criminal liability is OFF the table" with her hands over her ears, saying " La La La, I can't hear you."

not retribution because i feel he has wronged the american people or even just because he's a republican jackass ... it's JUSTICE finally for all those he has harmed. they (whoever) should be prepared to arrest all of them the minute the next president is sworn in, if not before. i want it now but i know i won't get it now.

"The President Could Be Subject To 'Prostitution'-FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE"

I pictured him working the streets of Bhagdad :evilgrin:

:sarcasm:

that Bush did not sign the agreement/treaty in regards to the world court.

Kissinger has been indicted by South American country (cant remember which) and he more or less is a prisoner in his home, has bodyguards wherever he goes...I'm not even sure he goes anyplace much in fear of being grabbed or to other countries, BUT
CNN has him on a guest, of course, and never mention
he's been indicted as a war criminal.

If the torture Bush condoned isn't enough . . .
If the illegal war in Iraq Bush started isn't enough . . .
If the spying on Americans without going through the FISA courts Bush approved isn't enough . . .

Then nothing ever will be!!

T-shirts, mugs, buttons n' cards at http://cafepress.com/laughcity">Laugh City

http://steponnopets.com/peo">President Evil Online has risen from the grave!

both this post and the action.

American citizens can file criminal charges against Bush, right?

What's to stop people from handing Bush a subpoena as he leaves the podium after swearing in the Democratic president? Access. But surely there's someone with access who could do this. Maybe Larry Flynt could get an invite to the inauguration?

O8)

Doesn't have to be Congress. Americans can file charges against Bush, et al, in Europe. Maybe someone will pull one of those Nazi hunter moments and Bush will be taken from Paraquay and flown to, say, Spain, where he will be charged with war crimes.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I have a feeling that Americans are starting to break through the beltway wall o' political fog. Whether anyone will act upon it or not, I think the pols have finally heard that the polis is pissed. Specifically and undoubtably pissed that we have a govt. that endorses and practices torture in the same way that any other despot practices torture.

and the privilege of pardoning needs to be updated for the new reality. If we can't charge them criminally, maybe the people can bring a civil suit or a rico suit - this isn't business as usual or a presumption of good intention - it was a coup, a conspiracy to subvert the very Constitution they swore to uphold for their private crime family's gain.

Adding: Like father like son? Poppy's operatives all knew they could break the law and be pardoned. Presumably, dimson is operating on the same script, which is why IMPEACHMENT is so important. It's the only way to restore the office.

This is why I couldn't care less about impeachment (although if it happens, I'm not against it). I'd so much rather see them all tried, convicted and incarcerated, at a minimum, for their crimes.

to pardon *, Cheney or anyone associated with *Co Administration - should they win the presidency. If any candidate is not willing to make that pledge - they are not worthy of becoming the President.

No one in Congress will ever want to revisit the Bush years. They will all want to "move forward." I think that's the phrase they use all the time.

...one never knows...



T-shirts, mugs, buttons n' cards at http://cafepress.com/laughcity">Laugh City

http://steponnopets.com/peo">President Evil Online has risen from the grave!

They don't want to upset any carts or do anything that might upset the Republicans. It's really as if the Bush Administration is blackmailing every member of Congress (except Kucinich). They (Congress) have shown time and time again that they are more interested in keeping their jobs rather than doing what's right.

I do think it's possible that more countries will try Bush/Cheney in absentia, but that would also come to nothing.

But I just HAFTA keep trying to hope that something will give somewhere, somehow...



...hopefully soon...

T-shirts, mugs, buttons n' cards at http://cafepress.com/laughcity">Laugh City

http://steponnopets.com/peo">President Evil Online has risen from the grave!

....prosecutions for crimes against humanity even after his life has ended as a lesson to future tyrants that the U.S. Constitution does not belong to them to revoke and violate as they see fit, but in fact belows to the people of the United States of America

Amen!!!

Impeach, prosecute and save America!

Krash

They should all be in FUCKING JAIL!

n/t is no text

Welcome to DU!

:hi:

as in recommend the post for the greatest.

about staying on DU all night.

to include himself and all members of his administration.

Doug D.

with no servants to wipe him.