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Suicide by cop? Are you serious? I've heard it all now!

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ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 12:46 PM
Original message
Suicide by cop? Are you serious? I've heard it all now!
Unarmed Khiel Coppin was shot at 20 times, hit 8 times, then handcuffed and shoved into the back of a police car as he bled to death.

The media is calling this incident a "suicide by cop." :eyes:

http://rawstory.com/news/afp/New_York_police_kill_teenager_armed_11132007.html

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SteppingRazor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
1. Who's saying that? The line doesn't appear anywhere in the story you posted.
:shrug:
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MNDemNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. It does not. But in retrospect, it seem to be the case, here.
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MNDemNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
2. Everything I have read, seems this was a valid police use of force.
And I am very skeptical of police shootings....but not this one.
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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. The fact that his own mother was saying he had a gun
Edited on Wed Nov-14-07 01:17 PM by tammywammy
Makes me think it's a valid use of police force.

edited to add: As I read a story on this again, I realized that I misspoke. It was him saying that he had a gun while his mother called 911.
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MNDemNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Lots more at NYtimes.com
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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. Thanks for the heads up
I read a few of the articles over there. Yeah, I think this is an instance where the police were justified in shooting.
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meegbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
3. Where does it say "suicide by cop" in that article?
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MrCoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
5. he was also heard making threats of rape and murder
and do you have a link to your "suicide by cop" claim?
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robcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
6. PHONY OP.
There's no claim of suicide in this case.
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
7. find me some truth and I'll tell you whether or not it hurts
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
8. that's actually a well-known phenomena -- i knew a guy in college who did this.
he was really intelligent but psychologically disturbed. he started a ruckus at a bar -- had a toy gun.

haven't thought of him in years.
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. I knew a guy who was surrounded in a gym by a SWAT team.
He came charging out aiming a broomstick at them. Suicide by cop.

BTW, he was fried on steroids.
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
9. Whether the characterization is correct or not
the phrase has been around for years, and does apply in some situations.
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Fredda Weinberg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
10. We're deadly serious in Brooklyn. n/t
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Turbineguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
11. It's what you get
when you call on the justice industry to deal with a health problem. When your only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
12. Shot at 20 times and only hit 8?
At a guy who was supposedly TRYING to get shot?

A whole new aspect of needing gun control.
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MNDemNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. He left a note
Paraphrasing here: Those closest 2 death closer 2 happyness (sic) also quote..To his mother "I'm prepared to die"
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. I'm not saying it wasn't "suicide by cop" --
my comment is on these LE professionals missing their target 60% of the time, when he wasn't even evading or shooting back.

Spray and pray - that's real shooting.
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MNDemNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. LOL
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LibertyLover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
15. Suicide by cop is very well known both to cops
and mental health professionals. Some people want to die, they just don't want to do it themselves. Please note that I am not, in any way, suggesting or inferring that is what happened in this case. I don't have enough information about the situation to make any such judgement. I am very sorry for Khiel Coppin's family because they have first had to deal with his illness and now his death.
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
20. Stupid Hurts A Lot too.
Edited on Wed Nov-14-07 01:25 PM by aikoaiko

edited to add:
From NYtimes.com
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/14/nyregion/14shooting.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&ref=nyregion

"Mr. Coppin, however, told the officers he had a gun. As they approached him, he lunged toward the officers with the knives and yelled, “Shoot me, kill me,” Mr. Kelly said."


This may be a case of mental illness in addition to stupidity.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. When I first heard this story the history of mental illness was noted. (nt)
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Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
22. NY teen with hairbrush shot 20 times by police - history of mental illness
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/246140/NY_teen_with_hairbrush_shot_20_times_by_police">NY teen with hairbrush shot 20 times by police

A teenager was killed by police who thought he was holding a gun. The New York teen was
shot 20 times and it was later found that Khiel Coppin was carrying a hairbrush, not a gun.
Officers received a 911 call from the teen’s mother around 7 p.m. Monday night.
The 911 operator heard the teen yelling in the background, claiming he had a gun.

When the officers arrived at the home, they could see the 18-year-old Khiel Coppin, pacing
inside the first floor apartment. His mother was waiting for the police outside.

The teen began screaming at his mother from the window and at the officers, before he started
climbing out of the window towards them. He had an object with him while he was approaching them.
The officers asked him to stop, but he didn’t listen, so they shot him 20 times thinking he was
carrying a gun and may pose danger to them, according to the police spokesman Paul Browne.

Police said it was not immediately known how many of the 20 bullets struck Coppin, but he was
pronounced dead at the hospital.

The investigators later discovered the object Coppin was holding: it turned out to be a harmless hairbrush.

Coppin’s mother tried to have him hospitalized earlier in the day and it seems he had a history
of mental illness. Whether the mother conveyed this news to the police is not clear.


It is a tragedy, and the police could have used non-lethal force like rubber bullets or taser.
Then again, even the latter causes deaths. Non-violence may have been the best possible option.

They are doing an investigation to find out who is at fault, according to Mayor Michael Bloomberg,
who told the media: The circumstances of how it occurred at this point is under investigation and
you can rest assured that we will take this very seriously,"

New York already has too many incidents like this. In November 2006, Sean Bell was killed in a 50
bullet gun fire on his wedding day and in 1999 African Immigrant Amadou Diallo was hit by 19 of 41
shots fired by police in the Bronx.


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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-14-07 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. from the blog: "Non-violence may have been the best possible option. "


wtf? He screamed he had a gun several times, he had knives in his hands, and he lunged at police.


Yes, the police should have subdued him with a heartwarming rendition of kumbaya.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. A well-trained professional should be able to disarm a nut with
a knife. Particularly if he has several other officers with him. Is it risky? Sure. But that is what they get paid for.

If any time called for a taser, this is it. But the ratcheting up of police violence seem to use tasers on helpless or non-threatening persons, and bullets on the somewhat threatening.

Is continual training even required by cops? Or are the cops so short-handed (because of those in Guard units being deployed overseas) that they are just pushed out onto the street? Show up, do your shift, go home.

IMO, every cop should have a half-hour each week on the firing range, and two hours a week hand-to-hand training in the gym - holds, take-downs, disarms. That would give these guys the confidence that they could handle a kid like this without blowing him up.
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