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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 11:03 PM
Original message
The weakness of the dollar is a sign of the US Empire comming down
just now over the News on the Malloy show

That was not malloy, but the AP reader.

Folks... I never thought I'd hear that on the news... by a news reader, but it may be time to mark your calenders

Usually the news readers are the last ones to finally read something like that.

Wow, just wow
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 11:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. Faith in the dollar has been the underpinning of the US economy and its massive size.
Since the end of the 2nd World War the American Dollar has served as a central lynchpin in world trade and exchange. As a result, its buoyancy has almost been assured due to high demand for the Dollar. This meant that the US could rack up huge debts that would usually sink other nation's currencies. Argentina is the last example that comes to mind, but not even the US Dollar can escape market fundamentals.

With the credit crunch precipitated by the housing market crash and massive, budget-busting deficits and huge debt obligations, the Dollar is being pushed down in a mighty way. There's maybe one other time when the Dollar was so weak, but budgetary discipline helped to bring back strength to the Dollar. Today, there is no discipline at all.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. You and I know that
Bretton Woods and all that jazz.. but hearing this over the AP news wire was kind of ... my god they noticed

The gig's up
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-20-07 07:30 AM
Response to Reply #2
13. This was hastened by the abuse of Bretton Woods through
overreach for a forced traditional or classical empire instead of the virtual one that it originally created.
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enid602 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. odd
Odd that the largest tax hike in US history took place in George HW Bush's Administration, in order to stave off the damage done to the Dollar by Uncle Ronnie.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Senior understood this
Junior didn't... or rather they need this in order to crash the economy. This is disaster capitalism to the nth degree
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
5. the rest of the world can not afford the us dollar to fall any further
the chinese are trying to cool off their economy and their housing problems mimic the united states, the europeans have a problem because the rest of the world can not afford to buy their products and our largest creditor,the japanese can not afford to do anything since both countries are basically one corporate entity.

one of these days they will sit down and come to an agreement otherwise there will be a world-wide depression.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Disaster capitalism, part of the plan
that said, the fact that it went through the wire had me going... holly molly
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Alcibiades Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-20-07 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. The last global depression brought us Roosevelt
It discredited the Republicans for a generation, brought us Roosevelt, strong unions, and a more equal union. If this thing does happen, we need to be sure that Bush goes down as Hoover JR., an that all his Republican enablers go down with him.

The human suffering this will bring is bad, but I hope that in the long run this experience will enable the American people to make some better choices and reduce suffering. Until everyone who remembers Bush and his depression dies of old age and the Republicans start the same old farce all over again.
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Alcibiades Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-20-07 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
7. Whatever the macro-level upshot, protect yourself!
The Independent did a retrospective of recent dollar news a couple of days ago. Nothing really new, just good to see it all in one spot. If anything, it understates the case for why the dollar will continue to fall. It does note that Warren Buffet thinks it will, so that's pretty much the clincher for me.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article3169638.ece

Meanwhile, Greenspan is saying that the dollar's decline isn't a problem: "So long as the dollar weakness does not create inflation, which is a major concern around the globe for everyone who watches the exchange rate, then I think it's a market phenomenon, which aside from those who travel the world, has no real fundamental economic consequences...."

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=axhJcwCakiis&refer=home

Hey, professor, we already have inflation due to rising oil prices, a textbook example of cost-push inflation. You don't think that the dollar's weakness at the exact moment when we are importing more than ever could cause inflation? OK, maybe, by itself, the weak dollar might not do much (though we are less able to substitute domestically produced goods today than in the past, because all the US companies that used to make stuff have moved production offshore to increase profits for stockholders and top executives), but consider this: we're paying over $3 a gallon at the pump, China is considering dumping our securities, and the housing market bubble has collapsed.

I've been listening/watching/reading the financial news lately, and you see this endless parade of supposedly sagacious Wall Street types (of whom Greenspan is the most prominent), people with ties to the financial services industry (i.e. equities) all saying not to panic, not to panic, the fundamentals are sound, nothing to see here, move along. Why are they saying this? Could it be they need time to put their own money and that of well-heeled clients somewhere safe before the impending recession? I don't know, but the whole think seems like some sort of weird Stalinist kabuki. Everyone knows the economy has tanked/is tanking/is going to tank more in the short-middle-long term. Yet, day after day, the business news if filled with pollyanna reports by people with vested interests, and business "journalists" take them seriously.

Anyway, the upshot is to take your investments (if you have any) out of US equities, and even international equities, because if we sneeze the world gets a cold. Put your retirement somewhere safe (what "safe" is is up to you, as your guess is as good as mine). I don't care where your investment adviser thinks you need to be in your investing life cycle, not matter where you are, losing 10%, 20%, or however much value cannot be good for you.
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nightrider767 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-20-07 12:10 AM
Response to Original message
8. The only thing keeping the dollar afloat is...
the trillions of dollars owned by foreign countries.

Latest example was Saudi Arabia, "identified as a big US allie by the news". They took a "pass" in the latest OPEC meeting for replacing the dollar as the standard currency for oil transactions.

Thank you Saudi Arabia, in a world gripped by greed and corruption, you are a true Friend who stands by us, when others shun us......



Okay,,, that's a joke. They're protecting their own US dollar assets.

These guys have to. They own so many US dollars that they can't even sell them all and not crash the market.
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spag68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-20-07 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Pretty soon
Chaney will be asking for our gold rings and teeth to pay for that sub prime they took out on the White House.Maybe some donations for the ranch in Patagonia.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-20-07 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. If it gets that bad they will be running
if it really gets really bad, they will have nowwhere to run
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spinbaby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-20-07 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #11
17. Oh, they have somewhere to run
They have a 100,000-acre ranch in Paraguay.
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nightrider767 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-20-07 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #11
23. They're animals
put them into a "corner" and watch out.

My fear is that if the dollar and the economy collapses, they'll start a new war.

Iran watch out.
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-20-07 07:35 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. "Yes, the Saudis are our beloved intimate cronies." - Commander AWOL
Edited on Tue Nov-20-07 07:36 AM by SpiralHawk
"So what if almost all the 9/11 terra-rists were Saudi, and we attacked Afghanistan and Iraq instead. The Saudis know how to keep me and my republicon oil cronies happy, and that's the main thing. Smirk."

- Commander AWOL

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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-20-07 07:25 AM
Response to Original message
12. "It’s the energy and the economy, stupid"
Following article is by William Clark, the author of the book http://petrodollarwarfare.com">Petrodollar Warfare: Oil, Iraq and the Future of the Dollar:


It’s the energy and the economy, stupid
An open letter to US policymakers

By William Clark
December 28, 2006

SNIP

The 21st century will likely be defined by three overarching forces: climate change, Peak Oil, and macroeconomics. The twin issues of climate change and Peak Oil are intertwined variables, and each represent extremely important phenomena that have slowly gained some public awareness. However,the third issue, macroeconomics, and more specifically the global trends regarding multiple petrocurrencies remains essentially unreported by the five US corporate media conglomerates.

Despite the general lack of public debate, the geopolitical landscape of this young century is increasingly being driven by escalating competition for energy supplies before global oil production peaks, and the erosion of dollar hegemony with the emergence of new petrocurrency alignments. The hypothesis outlined in Petrodollar Warfare; Oil, Iraq and the Future of the Dollar, is that the tragic war in Iraq is unfortunately the first oil-depletion and oil-currency war of the 21st century. <2>

Indeed, the geostrategic drivers behind the current “Iran crisis” are essentially the same as the previous “Iraq crisis,” including: structural imbalances in the global economy, which is being exacerbated by the weak US dollar, and the emerging liquid fuel energy crisis that will inexorably follow the peak in global oil production. The fact is that the post-World War II status of the US dollar as premier world reserve currency is quietly but assuredly eroding. <3>

SNIP

In his classic study of empires, The Rise and Fall of Great Powers: Economic Change and Military Conflict from 1500 to 2000, Yale historian Paul Kennedy observes that when great powers begin to decline, they almost invariably resort to war and belligerency, thereby accelerating their demise as they waste their national treasuries on military spending to the detriment of their economies and their peoples. Kennedy described this pattern as "overstretch." The United States is not immune to these historical patterns — the ultimate legacy of the 2003 invasion and occupation of Iraq — may in time be viewed by future historians as the pivotal event that solidified our own classical “imperial overstretch.”

To save the American experiment and stop our slide towards an authoritarian and militant empire, we will need to elect an enlightened president in 2008. Nothing less than revolutionary changes are needed of the political landscape. Regrettably, both political parties appear to be different factions representing the same richest two percent of the population, and both espouse an imperial agenda. Their prime constituency is the elite that funds their political campaigns, which is the powerful and unaccountable military–industrial–petroleum–banking conglomerate. This is the natural result of a structurally flawed campaign finance system that renders much of Congress and the president incapable of voicing the concerns and interests of the other 98 percent of Americans.

There is no easy way out, and I do not envy the arduous journey that awaits the 44th president, who will likely face a combined economic and energy crisis. Global monetary reform, including a compromise with the EU regarding the world reserve/petrocurrency issues, implies that the US will have to forfeit its superpower status and revert to being one nation among equals. Many Americans do not want to hear this message, but unless this bitter pill is swallowed, the US economy may experience a disorderly decline, inducing far more pain than would be experienced via multilateral compromises for controlled contraction. Regardless, we may not have the luxury of choice for much longer, as the dictates of the global economy and physics will soon come to the forefront.

http://www.petrodollarwarfare.com/PDFs/Its_the_Energy_and_the_Economy_Stupid_short.pdf
(Requires Adobe Acrobat reader to view)


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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-20-07 07:48 AM
Response to Original message
15. Again? I Thought We Already Fell
I remember hearing people say this in the 70's...losing Vietnam and rampant inflation. I heard it in the 80s then again in the 90's. Yet the U.S. is still here.

Global economics have changed...the dollar is just finding its own space in this changing world. The rest of the world has caught up with our consumerism and technology (and that's a bad thing??) which is creating new opportunities in other areas. As long as the U.S. has the largest consumer economy in the world, we remain strong as this country is the catalyst for many others. And because of that, foreign countries must keep us "happy" or lose their best paying customer.
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dmosh42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-20-07 08:05 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. what's different?
My input into why this is happening now, has to do with this credit crunch. We had those low rate ARMs(mortgages) for the last ten yrs, and when some inflation started showing up, the fed wanted to raise rates. This caused the huge amount of foreclosures to happen, which in turn caused a reversal in the fed actions. They lowered the rates, which in turn affects the interest returns for bonds, which are largely held by foreign nationals and gov'ts. So, now we're not attracting investments in those instruments used to pay our debts. So this is causing a largescale devaluation of our country's assets, and will effect us all individually, like fuel prices will. Somewhat of a catch-22 effect.
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-20-07 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. Winners And Losers
I had a great financial mentor...my mother...who always said whenever someone loses a dollar, someone makes a dollar. The game is to follow the money. You may not always be able to cash in or benefit from it, but be aware.

I consider the credit crunch a long overdue correction...20 years of speculative lending and risky investments; combined with a corporate mergermania spurred on by the easy financing that now is coming home to roost. Companies have become too large and their profit margins continue to narrow...bigger isn't better and I see this as a cue to a future wave of small and medium-size entrepeneurs to grow to fill a void these larger company can't fill. But before that happens, we'll continue to see belt-tightening, off-shoring, downsizing and all the other goodies that have save money in the short term at the expense of long term growth and quality.

We're in an almost identical situation as in the late 70's...a combination of rising oil prices and the defecit from Viet Nam helped create the inflation that hampered Carter. I suspect we'll see a return to these days again as tight credit will force rates to rise...but then will self-correct as the debts and defaults work their way through the system. The need to rebuild infrastructure, develop alternative energy and restore the consumer market will create new opportunities and could spur on a new WPA or simialr program.

A sinking dollar means the U.S. becomes an attractive place for foreign companies to buy from or to visit. Our food exports will always ensure this country of a major economic status and a restore service/technology base, like what we saw in the 90's, can make the dollar and economy strong again and in a lot shorter time than most expect.

Cheers...
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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-20-07 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. But where does Peak Oil fit into all of this
A sinking dollar means the U.S. becomes an attractive place for foreign companies to buy from or to visit. Our food exports will always ensure this country of a major economic status and a restore service/technology base, like what we saw in the 90's, can make the dollar and economy strong again and in a lot shorter time than most expect.

As I see it, that would depend on how close we are to http://www.energybulletin.net/primer.php">Peak Oil. Some energy analysts think it is already here or will be here within another 5 years.

In the early 70's the US had hit its peak in oil production and then had to start importing more and more of its daily oil requirements. Consequently, the oil embargo by OPEC in the 70s did put a temporary crimp on the economy. However, the US at the time produced a significantly higher proportion of its oil consumption than it does today, and there were other non OPEC oil producers which also came on stream (e.g. UK/Norway with the giant North Sea oil field) which had the effect of undercutting OPEC's attempts to corner the market and control the price and availability of oil.

Today the North Sea is in depletion as well as just about all non-OPEC producers, and there is significant concern about even the OPEC countries have the ability to increase their oil production by an amount necessary to meet the worlds projected needs. Today the US imports 60% of its oil from overseas and that figure is projected to increase to 70% over the next 20 years (see page 15 of the Hirsch report produced for the US government (Adobe Acrobat reader required): http://www.projectcensored.org/newsflash/the_hirsch_report.pdf ). If OPEC and the world abandons the dollar the US could find itself behind the 8 ball of a currency declining in value and simultaneously having to use more and more of a declining dollar to pay for increasingly expensive imported oil and/or overseas wars to impose US strategic control of oil producing regions (see www.petrodollarwarfare.com )

As it stands right now, there is no magic fairy that we know of projected to come along and alleviate the coming Peak Oil induced energy crunch like the non OPEC producers did in the 70s. And the prospects for alternative energy sources coming on stream to significantly alleviate reliance on oil and gas is still not promising.

Re. the place of food exports in an economic revival, see "Eating Fossil Fuels" by Dale Alen Pfeiffer:


Eating Fossil Fuels

by Dale Allen Pfeiffer

© Copyright 2004, From The Wilderness Publications, www.copvcia.com. All Rights Reserved. May be reprinted, distributed or posted on an Internet web site for non-profit purposes only.

SNIP

In the 1950s and 1960s, agriculture underwent a drastic transformation commonly referred to as the Green Revolution. The Green Revolution resulted in the industrialization of agriculture. Part of the advance resulted from new hybrid food plants, leading to more productive food crops. Between 1950 and 1984, as the Green Revolution transformed agriculture around the globe, world grain production increased by 250%.4 That is a tremendous increase in the amount of food energy available for human consumption. This additional energy did not come from an increase in incipient sunlight, nor did it result from introducing agriculture to new vistas of land. The energy for the Green Revolution was provided by fossil fuels in the form of fertilizers (natural gas), pesticides (oil), and hydrocarbon fueled irrigation.

The Green Revolution increased the energy flow to agriculture by an average of 50 times the energy input of traditional agriculture.5 In the most extreme cases, energy consumption by agriculture has increased 100 fold or more.6

In the United States, 400 gallons of oil equivalents are expended annually to feed each American (as of data provided in 1994).7 Agricultural energy consumption is broken down as follows:

· 31% for the manufacture of inorganic fertilizer

· 19% for the operation of field machinery

· 16% for transportation

· 13% for irrigation

· 08% for raising livestock (not including livestock feed)

· 05% for crop drying

· 05% for pesticide production

· 08% miscellaneous8

Energy costs for packaging, refrigeration, transportation to retail outlets, and household cooking are not considered in these figures.

To give the reader an idea of the energy intensiveness of modern agriculture, production of one kilogram of nitrogen for fertilizer requires the energy equivalent of from 1.4 to 1.8 liters of diesel fuel. This is not considering the natural gas feedstock.9 According to The Fertilizer Institute (http://www.tfi.org), in the year from June 30 2001 until June 30 2002 the United States used 12,009,300 short tons of nitrogen fertilizer.10 Using the low figure of 1.4 liters diesel equivalent per kilogram of nitrogen, this equates to the energy content of 15.3 billion liters of diesel fuel, or 96.2 million barrels.

Of course, this is only a rough comparison to aid comprehension of the energy requirements for modern agriculture.

In a very real sense, we are literally eating fossil fuels. However, due to the laws of thermodynamics, there is not a direct correspondence between energy inflow and outflow in agriculture. Along the way, there is a marked energy loss. Between 1945 and 1994, energy input to agriculture increased 4-fold while crop yields only increased 3-fold.11 Since then, energy input has continued to increase without a corresponding increase in crop yield. We have reached the point of marginal returns. Yet, due to soil degradation, increased demands of pest management and increasing energy costs for irrigation (all of which is examined below), modern agriculture must continue increasing its energy expenditures simply to maintain current crop yields. The Green Revolution is becoming bankrupt.

SNIP

Modern intensive agriculture is unsustainable. Technologically-enhanced agriculture has augmented soil erosion, polluted and overdrawn groundwater and surface water, and even (largely due to increased pesticide use) caused serious public health and environmental problems. Soil erosion, overtaxed cropland and water resource overdraft in turn lead to even greater use of fossil fuels and hydrocarbon products. More hydrocarbon-based fertilizers must be applied, along with more pesticides; irrigation water requires more energy to pump; and fossil fuels are used to process polluted water.

It takes 500 years to replace 1 inch of topsoil.21 In a natural environment, topsoil is built up by decaying plant matter and weathering rock, and it is protected from erosion by growing plants. In soil made susceptible by agriculture, erosion is reducing productivity up to 65% each year.22 Former prairie lands, which constitute the bread basket of the United States, have lost one half of their topsoil after farming for about 100 years. This soil is eroding 30 times faster than the natural formation rate.23 Food crops are much hungrier than the natural grasses that once covered the Great Plains. As a result, the remaining topsoil is increasingly depleted of nutrients. Soil erosion and mineral depletion removes about $20 billion worth of plant nutrients from U.S. agricultural soils every year.24 Much of the soil in the Great Plains is little more than a sponge into which we must pour hydrocarbon-based fertilizers in order to produce crops.

Every year in the U.S., more than 2 million acres of cropland are lost to erosion, salinization and water logging. On top of this, urbanization, road building, and industry claim another 1 million acres annually from farmland.24 Approximately three-quarters of the land area in the United States is devoted to agriculture and commercial forestry.25 The expanding human population is putting increasing pressure on land availability. Incidentally, only a small portion of U.S. land area remains available for the solar energy technologies necessary to support a solar energy-based economy. The land area for harvesting biomass is likewise limited. For this reason, the development of solar energy or biomass must be at the expense of agriculture.

Modern agriculture also places a strain on our water resources. Agriculture consumes fully 85% of all U.S. freshwater resources.26 Overdraft is occurring from many surface water resources, especially in the west and south. The typical example is the Colorado River, which is diverted to a trickle by the time it reaches the Pacific. Yet surface water only supplies 60% of the water used in irrigation. The remainder, and in some places the majority of water for irrigation, comes from ground water aquifers. Ground water is recharged slowly by the percolation of rainwater through the earth's crust. Less than 0.1% of the stored ground water mined annually is replaced by rainfall.27 The great Ogallala aquifer that supplies agriculture, industry and home use in much of the southern and central plains states has an annual overdraft up to 160% above its recharge rate. The Ogallala aquifer will become unproductive in a matter of decades.28

SNIP

n the United States, each person consumes an average of 2,175 pounds of food per person per year. This provides the U.S. consumer with an average daily energy intake of 3,600 Calories. The world average is 2,700 Calories per day.33 Fully 19% of the U.S. caloric intake comes from fast food. Fast food accounts for 34% of the total food consumption for the average U.S. citizen. The average citizen dines out for one meal out of four.34

One third of the caloric intake of the average American comes from animal sources (including dairy products), totaling 800 pounds per person per year. This diet means that U.S. citizens derive 40% of their calories from fat-nearly half of their diet. 35

Americans are also grand consumers of water. As of one decade ago, Americans were consuming 1,450 gallons/day/capita (g/d/c), with the largest amount expended on agriculture. Allowing for projected population increase, consumption by 2050 is projected at 700 g/d/c, which hydrologists consider to be minimal for human needs.36 This is without taking into consideration declining fossil fuel production.

To provide all of this food requires the application of 0.6 million metric tons of pesticides in North America per year. This is over one fifth of the total annual world pesticide use, estimated at 2.5 million tons.37 Worldwide, more nitrogen fertilizer is used per year than can be supplied through natural sources. Likewise, water is pumped out of underground aquifers at a much higher rate than it is recharged. And stocks of important minerals, such as phosphorus and potassium, are quickly approaching exhaustion.38

Total U.S. energy consumption is more than three times the amount of solar energy harvested as crop and forest products. The United States consumes 40% more energy annually than the total amount of solar energy captured yearly by all U.S. plant biomass. Per capita use of fossil energy in North America is five times the world average.39

Our prosperity is built on the principal of exhausting the world's resources as quickly as possible, without any thought to our neighbors, all the other life on this planet, or our children.

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/100303_eating_oil.html


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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-20-07 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. We Hit It Years Ago
There's always been a growing discrepency between the amount of oil being produced and the amount consumed. In the 80's and 90's, we actually were able to cut consumption that stabilized prices, but in the last 7 years, we've seen a regime that has used oil as a backdoor tax (think of how much more you've paid in just federal gas taxes over the past couple years to fund boooshie war for profit) and provide a windfall for all his big oil buddies. They like energy...all energy...being priced high no matter how its produced.

While we've seen prices rise, we haven't seen supply drop. You don't see gas lines or rationing. The flow is still there. If there was a serious "peak oil shortage", we'd see that in the overall drop in world production. On the contrary, with new Russian fields that have gone online in recent years (Putin loves this price rise, too) there's a greater supply on the open market now than there has been.

Oil is and always will be a political weapon. It's masked in many forms by various groups to either defend or attack it. I'm strongly in favor of developing many varieties of alternative energy and the benefits of the high oil prices are that it makes development and production of these sources more economical and popular. Maybe this will be the wake-up call for many to see this country develop an alternative energy/fuels program like a Brazil to harness other sources to replace oil. Maybe the weakening of the dollar and US Oil company dominance will push a future Democatic government to both investigate the business practices of the oil companies over the past 10 years and reward those developing alternatives to oil.

Cheers...
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-20-07 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
21. Chicken Little "Sky Falling" news at 11!!
Currency fluctuation is normal. A ten year look at the YEN would indicate Japan should have collapsed.

A devalued dollar has many impacts, some good, some bad, depending on what (and where) you do. The products my company sells to international clients that were priced at the top of their respective markets are now getting more demand in europe. A multi million dollar system is now easier to acquire.

That is one example.

I am more concerned with bad loans and inflation domestic than the dollars value on the market.
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Johonny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-20-07 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
22. Not sure about coming down but
If you remember the economy in the aftermath of Vietnam... it's going to be like that fo shure.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-20-07 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
24. Well we've always hailed ourselves as the richest nation on earth
I think the rest of the earth is about to tell us otherwise.
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-20-07 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
25. When they start pricing oil on something OTHER than the dollar...
From Harper's Weekly:

At the third OPEC summit in 47 years, held in Riyadh,
Saudi Arabia, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez said that
the price of crude oil could reach $200 a barrel. "The
basis of all aggression," said Chavez, "is oil." During a
private meeting that was accidentally televised, the oil
minister of Venezuela suggested to the oil minister of
Iran that OPEC stop using the crippled dollar for pricing;
the foreign minister of Saudi Arabia countered that public
discussion of the weak dollar would cause U.S. currency to
lose value. "Kill the cable!" shouted a security guard as
he ran into the meeting room, "Kill the cable!" An
economist with financial services firm UBS AG put the odds
of a U.S. recession at 45 percent.
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GreatCaesarsGhost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-20-07 11:36 AM
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26. let's start calling them "Bush dollars"
or "W dollars"
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