Pit Bull Mauling scares neighbors

This is a story that ran in our local paper in Duluth, MN. Now please take the time and read the whole article before commenting, and lets try not to make this a flame fest.



Now it appears to me that the owners of the Pit Bulls have done everything right and the owners of the dog that was killed did not keep their dog on a leash, yet they want to punish the owners that did what they were supposed to pay for their neglect. I don't know but I think that is CRAZY!



ON EDIT: It won't allow direct link to the story but it is on the front page of the paper's home page.

Because other people or other dogs behaved in a certain manner all similar people or dogs will be treated as the same thing..

Now it appears to me that the owners of the Pit Bulls have done everything right and the owners of the dog that was killed did not keep their dog on a leash, yet they want to punish the owners that did what they were supposed to pay for their neglect. I don't know but I think that is CRAZY!

The problem is that the owners of the pitbulls have failed to put up an adequate PHYSICAL barrier between their dogs and the rest of the world. They've been relying on one of those invisible electric dog-fence gadgets. That's not a real fence, and it's just not sufficient to protect other people and their animals.

The owners of the Yorkie say that they and their dog were on their own property when the attack occurred. The owners of the pitbulls claim that the attack occurred on their side of the property line.

Wherever it happened, it's clear that there is NO actual barrier between those dogs and the neighborhood. That's a hazardous situation, and it's the fault of the owners of the pitbulls and no one else.

with any territorial large breed. Too much potential for other peoples pets or children who don't know how to interact with dogs to wander onto the property. Which is what the yorkie did I'm sure. No way the pit would have jumped through the fence, retrieved the yorkie and then jumped back through the fence.

Why even comment?

It was an INVISIBLE fence.

This is reliable protection? Should they leash children in the neighborhood as well? Jesus Christ....

That doesn't mean i didn't read the story. And as an aside, the invisible fences i know of all run on electricity, so unless you're in a rural area with electrified pasture fencing, ranting on the distinction is kind of petty imo.

Sure you read the story. :rofl: Don't expect me to read it for you hoss. :hi:

that's what the yorkie owner claimed. That you're trying to start an argument over the internet with a complete stranger over something so silly says more about your r/l self than you care to . Have a nice day weenieboy:hi:

When the cliff notes for this story come out we'll letcha know. ;)

The way the other poster worded it was a little clumsy but the point still came across.

by a reliable company and don't put up that cheap do-it-yourself stuff.

http://www.petsafe.net/product_finder/?Large%20Dog%20(40%20lbs.%20and%20up)

but it doesn't work to keep the neighborhood pets, children and wildlife out.

At least that seems to be the general attitude here on DU. To them burglary is now a Capital Crime or even suspected burglary...

that an electric fence is not a sufficient barrier. With that said, dog owners should NEVER have their dogs off-leash outside the confines of their own property. It's incredibly irresponsible.

I almost didn't read this thread, so used to the absolutely crazy flamefest that normally comes from the words "pitbull."

I agree a physical fence was and is required and that these dogs need to be kept on leash (and under control) at all times. To the extent the Yorkie was or was not on its property is unclear. However, that still does not eliminate the pitbull owners need to be more responsible themselves.

That having been said, and as much as I can really really really empathize with the Yorkies owners (how horrific to see your precious pup killed in that way), I am not at all sure this rises to the level of forcing the pitbull owners to get rid of their dogs. Especially if they were on their own property. But, the electric fence is insufficient and needs to be addressed. And, I think they owe something to the Yorkie's owners as well, regardless.

I will say that having three pitbulls requires a very competent owner to ensure that THEY, the human are the dominant leader in the household. I could see Animal Control hiring someone who specializes in animal behavior and specifically pitbulls and similar breeds to do a bit of oversight to be sure. Someone with the understanding of this breed's natural behaviors--like the dog whisperer, Caesar Milan.

In Texas, as another poster pointed out, you can shoot someone on you property. Other states have similar laws. The pit bull owners kept their dogs on their property. Now, look at that picture of the Yorkie. Is that a DOG? What the fuck was it doing out without a leash? Isn't THAT a violation of city ordinance? Why did those people allow their dog out without a leash? If that squirrel...er, dog...had been hit by a car on the way over to the pit bull's yard, would the owners have demanded that the road be closed down?

I'm not usually on the side of pit bull owners, but this just stinks. And it happens to hit close to home, as we stayed with some friends this weekend who might have to give up their beautiful dog (I'm not sure of the breed -- some sort of bulldog, but not a pit bull) because of very similar circumstances; a neighbor dog came to their property and their dog attacked it, but fortunately didn't do any serious damage. The dog is the most loving, friendly dog you can imagine. She's very friendly and playful. But like most dogs, she's territorial, and probably felt as if she was protecting territory. Now the owners of the other dog are filing complaints with the town even though it was their dog that wandered.

That Yorkie looks like a freakin' snack to a big dog, pit bull or not. It's owners were totally responsible because THEY allowed it out unleashed. Electric fences work very well, but as noted, not in keeping pets/people OUT, only in (provided they're wearing the transmitter collar). I can see the argument that a physical fence should be required. But removal of the dogs is not.

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At all.. especially if it is true the Yorkie was on the property of the neighbors as claimed. Nor have I suggested the pitbulls should be removed. PLEASE re-read my post as it seems you have misinterpreted much of what I've said.

However, an invisible fence won't prevent children from coming on the pitbull owners property and will not always keep a determined dog on theirs. The pitbull owners need to take that extra measure of precaution.. That is all. Just as the owner of a swimming pool has the liability responsibility to ensure young children can not wander in and drown in their pool on their property.


Personally, I really like pitbulls, a lot. In fact, they are among my favorite breeds and I have spent time around quite a few. I truly sympathize and would go to bat for your friend if they are being singled out because of breed prejudice and societal ignorance. The current stereotype surrounding them is not fair, but they DO need a well informed calm assertive owner, prepared to ensure they are adequately trained and under control. Because of their inherent strength that can lead to even accidental injury towards others dogs and small children, owners have an ethical responsibility that at times may exceed legal responsibility. That is true of many wonderful large powerful dogs, including Rotties, German Shepherds, Dobies, and the like. What in one owners hands can be a truly wonderful dog-- even a guide/assistance dog or police dog-- can, in the wrong hands be turned into something far less predictable or even dangerous.

HELLO!

I did say that I thought a physical fence was more appropriate.

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Edited to add a bit more context for my views.

You did seemingly totally misinterpret my post. I am glad if you did not mean to convey that, however. And, please don't answer someone's sincere and very civil response with "CHILL". :shrug:

WTF is the dif?

I didn't totally misrep your post at all. I expressed my own opinion and related a similar story happening to a friend of mine. Are you sure you're responding to the right person????????? We don't seem to be in disagreement much at all!

:shrug:

.

That is how I meant it. Or Like "hey"... Perhaps if I had put a hello with an eye-roll icon in a message, but that was not the case.

We seem to be talking through or over each other. But, I agree we seem in agreement.

If you have a swimming pool in your back yard and no restraining barrier to keep the neighborhood kids out, and one of them gets in and drowns, you are held liable.

This is not much different. If the Yorkie wandered in on its own, so could a little kid. And if that kid was the one that got mauled, I think we'd all agree the dogs need be put down.

I don't like electric fences, and this is why. That said, one should never have their dog off-leash for any reason short of being on their property or at a dog park or like place.

To be honest, you have to be a real fucking idiot to have your 7 pound dog "a few feet" away from 3 alleged pit bulls and not have that dog under your direct control.

I knew I could count on you, as a matter of fact I thought of you as I posted this. Now my brother lives in this neighborhood and he says that the pits are very nice and the owners are good people. They know them personally.

:popcorn:

okay proceed. :)

Given half a chance, Pit Bulls would kill you and everyone you love!

..test the invisible fence..

1) place tantalizing target for mauling 6-10 feet inside fence on your own property on a leash.
2) place solid bulletproof backstop at far end of yard
3) set yourself up with cold drink and rifle in your own yard with bait between you and backstop
4) Shoot to kill anything that crosses the fence.

I didn't read where the owners were fined for disobeying any leash laws, which I feel certain Duluth would have.

Sad to say, but if the Yorkie was in the yard, the poor dog asked for it. Many small dogs have a "big dog" complex, and are strangely unafraid of much bigger dogs. Many many years ago, before leash laws, I had a toy poodle that went into a German Shepherd's front yard and antagonized the Shepherd. That dog ripped my dog to shreds. As much as it hurt our family, we realized that our dog asked for it. We didn't blame the Shepherd or the owners of the dog.

role of "pack leader," something that happens when their human owners assert little or no control or discipline, but only affection. Thus, the little guys think it is their responsibility to assert themselves on behalf of themselves, the owner, and and their home and "territory."

It is understandable to want to "baby" these little doggies, but you have to give them more structure in terms of your relationship with them if you want to avoid this. Same thing with the bigger guys, particularly dogs like pitbulls. Their owners must calmly make it clear that they are in control of the household so that the dogs don't feel the need to become assertive, overly protective (and sometimes aggressive) themselves. I've lived and worked with all kinds of dogs in my life time. And, I love to baby them too with affection and adoration. But, you do have to temper this tendency of many dogs in order to "live in harmony." They actually relax when they realize the human in the home is the "pack leader" and are much the happier for it.

That having been said, a little dog that may resemble a squirrel or other small mammal is a curiosity for dogs. Some will chase, only out of curiosity, but if the animal is close enough, even curious play could lead to accidental injury or worse. Again, in a household where dogs know they are not dominant to the humans, they tend to ignore other animals and live in harmony. But, that is why spending time to accomplish some basic training is so important. It doesn't break their spirit as some believe, rather it makes for a happier (and truly predictable, trustworthy) dog and household.

I'm sorry for your little poodle experience, but you were very mature in recognizing the reality of what had happened... Very painful, nonetheless. I hope you've had much happier dog experiences since then. :thumbsup:

I hope the Pit owners have mentioned this to the other ding-bat parents that let their 2 year old child play with this PACK.

The animal control division of the Duluth Police Department said it will ask the Williamses to get rid of the dogs, and the mauling may force the Duluth City Council to re-examine the use of electric fences, which the Williamses use to keep the dogs on their property. While many passersby, including someone walking a dog, were observed Monday passing the house, the dogs barked but were kept at the edge of the Williamses’ property line by the invisible electric fence. The fence is so strong, Tara Williams said, that her husband tested it one time at full strength.

“It made his arm go numb,” she said. “The dogs yelp . It hurts.”

But Susnik, who lives across an alley from the Williamses, said that didn’t happen Sunday. She said Cosmo and her other dog, a Maltese-poodle mix named Daisy, were standing unleashed just a few feet away from the property line when one of the pit bulls ran across the fence line, snatched Cosmo and took it back to the Williamses’ yard. Another pit bull, Susnik said, grabbed Cosmo and the two started pulling the dog.

<snip>

Daisy ran after Cosmo and was grabbed by another pit bull, Susnik said. She said she and her daughter, Tia, ran after the dogs and worked, along with Jason Williams, to pry them free. Daisy survived, but with four puncture wounds in her abdomen.

<snip>

The Williamses have a different version of the story. They said that they’ve previously seen Susnik’s dogs in their yard and Sunday saw Cosmo in the yard before one of their pit bulls got to it.

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Either way, this "fence" works for shit. Time to put up a real one.

The idea behind all underground pet fences, regardless of the manufacturer, is the same. In all of these systems the transmitter uses the buried loop of wire to broadcast a radio signal. The signal is normally very simple -- just a sine wave, or possibly two sine waves at different powers. As described in How Electromagnets Work, the buried wire acts as an antenna and turns the signal into electromagnetic waves.

The transmitter does not use a lot of power, so the signal around the wire has a very small range -- perhaps 10 or 15 feet. In some systems the wire has two signals running through it -- one at low power and one at a higher power. In these systems the collar can detect different distances from the wire to provide different levels of correction.

Inside the collar is a small radio receiver (essentially an AM radio very similar to a $5 battery-operated AM radio you would buy at a discount store). When this radio gets close enough to the buried wire, it receives the signal that the wire transmits. The radio triggers a correction so the dog knows it is nearing the boundary.

http://home.howstuffworks.com/pet-fence6.htm

The Yorkie wouldn't have the collar so to him or anyone outside the yard there is no fence.

Unless I was there to supervise. And the problem with the fence is that it does not prevent people and/or other animals from wandering on to the property. And what happens if you lose power?

IMHO any dog aggressive dogs should be behind a physical fence and gates that contain them. The invisible fence would be a good idea in this instance only to keep them from digging under the physical fence.

Also even if your dog is not dog-aggresive what prevents an aggresive dog from coming on your property and attacking your dog with just an invisible fence?

I say the pit bull owners are irresponsible in this case. If I was city officials I'd give them one more chance with a physical fence and any more attacks the dogs go.

That's an urban area with small yards. Why would you have three large dogs in a small area, even with an electric fence, when people and pets will be walking nearby?

It was an accident waiting to happen.

With no neighbors close by. It keeps my two dogs inside though. Thing is, they're smart enough to know that when the shock collars are not around their neck, its safe to wander outside of the yard. But anytime they're wearing it, they dont go outside the yard.

It's interesting to see the things that animals can figure out.

We trained our dog to ring a bell when she wants to go outside. When we adopted a big boy cat, who used to be a stray, he quickly figured out the bell system! (We don't let him out anyway, although he probably deserves it for being so clever.)

instead of a dog.

A pit bull almost killed our cat 3 days ago. It caught our cat, picked it up by the scruff of the neck, and shook it violently back and forth as fast as it could. Our cat is now lethargic and totally freaked out from trauma. If I hadn't hit the dog in the head with a stick it would have killed the cat.

And I'm hardly a fan of pit bulls.

Humans view Pitbulls as dangerous mammals ....

No matter how 'loving' such animals might behave with their owners: society has a right to advocate for mutual safety against legitimate threats ..... Pitbulls possess a very powerful physical ability to cause extreme trauma to human beings .... Their temperament is immaterial: their threat is in their powerful jaws, not in their 'heart' .....

I am not one to call for banning breeds: but I would hold owners of such dangerous animals accountable, and would have them stand in court to answer as a proxy for their animals; If they DID NOT control those animals, and those animals caused death or injury, then they should be convicted of manslaughter, mayhem, or assault .....

You are free to possess those animals, but you are not free of the responsibility for the consequences of their behavior .....

Invisible fences aren't good for controlling unsupervised animals, and the owner of the dog that was killed shouldn't have had their dog off-leash. Neither party had their animal under control.

And any large dog has the power to cause "extreme trauma" to human beings. The owners should be held accountable, in the case of dangerous dogs, but in this case, I think the owners of the dog that was killed was just as accountable.

While I agree that the Yorkie owner holds some responsibility for being off-leash, they lost a dog and friend ..... They didnt cause harm .....

I am reminded of the Rape excuse 'She asked for it' .....

Yeah ... I know it is not the same, but it has the same effect: blaming the victim for being torn to shreds by unfettered brutes ..... It seems a high price to pay ....

Like you, I dont care what breed this was: the fact that they were permitted, through neglience, to attack another animal is all that matters: It isnt the animals fault: it is the owners.

Yet; I find it hard to 'equally' blame the Yorkie's owner .... the cause and effect of loss is obviously lopsided ....

I stand by what I said: i-fences are inappropriate, and legally the Yorkie's owners were "at fault." I LOVE my pets. I would probably die to protect them, and I'm no fan of pit bulls, which people on this board know. They scare me. But, this is an instance where they are being demonized unfairly.

And, the rape analogy was shameful. Be aware of my history before you throw stuff like that at me.

My huge slobbering beast views strange cats as terrifying aliens that want to liquify his innards with the laser death rays he must be certain they can shoot out of their eyes. LOL! Dogs he hates and wants to rip into tiny pieces (except Maggie but that's because he's in love with her)... cats, however, are SCARY.

The fastest and most reliable way to get him to come back in the house after he's done his business and patroled the perimiter is to say "Where's the kitty?"... and he flies back into the house like he was shot out of a cannon (and THEN peeks around the door to see if there's really a scary kitty out there)!

:D

it could be death as repercussion and not worth it. best point for a real fence. part of owners responsibility living in a neighborhood

...these types of posts are so frequent!