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SHRED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 10:43 AM
Original message
Public Education System (at least my experience)
Grades K-5, or so, they pressure you "fit in" with the peer group be it through threats of punishment or medication (Ritlan).
Then when the sex and drug years start they try to instill a "just say no" to drugs and peer pressure indoctrination.

This is psychotic.

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Solutions:

Smaller class sizes.
More individual attention.
Smaller and more tailored classes to suit different children.
Teaching of critical thinking.

Of course this involves a great commitment of time and material...it's much more "exciting" to commit "Shock and Awe" on the brown people overseas.
:sarcasm:

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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
1. It wasn't anything like that when I went to public school
I graduated from high school in San Diego in 1975. Things were different back then.
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SHRED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Me too however...
Edited on Wed Nov-21-07 10:53 AM by SHRED
1974 Poway High.

Later in life late 1980's, I worked at the elementary school level and upper grades (custodial work) when the DARE program was in full swing.
I also witnessed many stressed teachers (K-5 grades) yanking kids outside the room and demanding why they couldn't "sit still and get their work done like everybody else".

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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
2. I like your solutions, and have been advocating for them
for 3 decades now. Smaller schools and class sizes take money that no one will commit.

Differentiation and critical thinking require permission to be flexible, which, under the current "standards and accountablility" march to standardize everything we say and do in our classrooms, is rare and endangered.

If people spent as much time holding legislators accountable for the solutions, instead of excusing their enabling of the problems, we'd see some positive changes.

Is that likely to happen anytime soon? NCLB and the standards and accountability movement is a bipartisan disaster. You can't just expect things to get better because you elected a Democrat.
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Snarkturian Clone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
4. This recommendation is illegal now
"Smaller and more tailored classes to suit different children."

Can't do this as a result of the perversion of inclusion laws.

As I've said in another thread, NCLB + Inclusion = the end of our society.
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SHRED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. please elaborate
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Snarkturian Clone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. kids that used to have their own classes
that individually addressed their particular problems are now forced to be included in a class of 30+ kids. The teacher is then supposed to modify instructional requirements just for them. At my school, it means D's = A's.

This means that an emotionally disturbed kid that likes to hurt other kids is forced to be with a group of 30+ kids during certain classes. This causes the child to not get the level of attention from the teacher he needs. It also causes the child to act out and start hurting kids.

My school has a kid in third grade who freaks out and starts choking and punching kids in the face for his own pleasure. It is illegal to put him into a small group for certain subjects. Inclusion lovers at my school think it's this great thing that he's allowed to be with other kids (and don't think other children in the class haven't started mimicking his behavior). I worry about the kids in the class that have to live in fear knowing that at any second that kid might choke or punch them.

The laws that make this possible were written because blind, deaf, and physically handicapped kids were getting the short end of the stick in school. Some people then, through lawsuits and such, made it so those same laws applied to emotionally disturbed, ADD, asperger's, and others. I connect NCLB to this because now kids with a 60 IQ that would have been individually addressed are now in large groups and are going to have to be grade level by 2014.

For most of them I don't mind the inclusion. It's just the emotionally disturbed children who are violent that make me angry. How could it be good to have a child in a room that hurts other students?

I wrote this pretty fast and haphazardly so if any part is unclear let me know.
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SHRED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. they need to draw the line then...
...when it comes to violence towards others.

That is insane.
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Snarkturian Clone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. my school is afraid of lawsuits
we have a kid who we've attempted to expel at least 5 times and the moment his crazy mom threatens to sue, the school caves.

The admin is actually considering paying for him to go to a private behavior mod school.

He misbehaves in EVERY possible way and his mom excuses it to the point where she meets with teachers and tells them "you can't expect him to do work. You have to give him an A."
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SHRED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. You need to videotape him...
...Let's put it this way...if my child was "allowed" to be attacked by another student then that school district would have some serious explaining to do.


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Snarkturian Clone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. In my state we have to have written consent to video the kid.
and it's also a school policy because we have some yahweh ben yahweh believers whose religion prohibits videotaping.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh_Ben_Yahweh
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SHRED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. now it's just getting weird
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Snarkturian Clone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. agreed
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goddess40 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
6. schools are being squeezed out of existence
it's not that we don't have enough money directed at them but that it goes to the wrong things. If we had decent health care coverage and the republican's pet business's weren't allowed to charge their outrageous prices money would be available to be spent on the solutions you mentioned. America's priorities are so screwed up that we think killing children in Iraq is more important than the health and education of our children here.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Amen!
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IsaiahTruman Donating Member (61 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-21-07 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
14. The problem is "No Child Left Behind" and "The America Competes Act"
Reposted from:
http://reformationcomingsoon.bravehost.com/Commentary.html

On The America Competes Act and No Child Left Behind Act:
American Education Initiatives: Good Intentions, Unintended Consequences

The America Competes Act and initiative has broad bipartisan support because it was designed to increase funding and boost American efforts to increase education in "STEM" subjects: Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math. The rationale and belief was that this is necessary to compete with other countries that have been and are increasingly producing and graduating professionals in these fields at a rate higher than the U.S.

On the face of it, this seems like a good idea, and it is a good idea except for one important thing. It is to the detriment of the liberal arts, and particularly to the detriment of literature, history, civics, geography, art, and music, all of which are just as valuable to our civilization. In fact, many people would say they are even more valuable to the spiritual and cultural development of our civilization, and to increase funding for STEM subjects while decreasing funding for liberal arts is foolhardy, shortsighted, and careless.

Moreover, since the American Competes Act came on the heels of Bush’’s "No Child Left Behind Act," it compounds the problems caused by that foolhardy initiative. And let me tell you why I say that.

Bush’’s "No Child Left Behind" is an unfunded education "reform" initiative designed to make schools more accountable by imposing more standardized tests. It’’s part of the Republican demand to prove how much "bang for the buck" we’’re getting. But, the reality is that it wastes public schools' precious time and money, and it endangers many public schools and sets them up for failure.

"No Child Left Behind" threatens loss of funding if schools do not meet standardized testing requirements. But most educators find those requirements unrealistic and counterproductive, and they detract from real teaching and learning. In fact, they stifles incentive and destroy interest in wider and higher learning, because they are geared toward low-performing students to ensure that all students pass the standardized tests so their school is not punished.

While "No Child Left Behind" ostensibly creates "greater accountability," it actually forces attention on very narrowly defined academic achievement. Like "merit pay," it forces teachers to "teach to the test" and focus on test results, which is at the cost of wider and more comprehensive learning, and also at the cost of social and emotional character development.

You see, Bush’’s education initiative was originally predicated and modeled on a fraudulently touted Texas school program, and it never was a good idea. In fact, I suspect it was secretly designed to gradually undermine public education and make way for a privatized, profit-making education system. I suspect that is the hidden agenda of right-wing conservatives regarding education. That is why they have been pushing for "school choice," demanding taxpayer’’s money for private schools, and taking money away from public schools that desperately need it. I believe that is why early in his first term Bush cut $8 Billion from the promised funds for public education, and then imposed an education law and unfunded mandate that has created more costly bureaucracy and paper work for public schools.

Now things have been made worse. The 2007 American Competes Act decreases our ability to give students a comprehensive, broad education, because it focuses and rewards the STEM subjects at the cost of everything else –– particularly at the cost of the subjects that make our culture more creative, beautiful, entertaining, enriching, and enjoyable. Even worse, it runs headlong further toward an inequitable educational system in which only the children of the wealthy would be able to afford liberal arts education. And even as it has been, many students in many public schools cannot afford to participate in some music and arts programs because they are already underfunded.

We need to educate our children and young men and women with a broad, comprehensive liberal arts education that includes all areas of academic study, and we need to ensure that they are all funded fairly and equitably.

Remember what the very wise have said.

"I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. My sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history, naval architecture, navigation, commerce and agriculture in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, and music."
–– John Adams

"If I were not a physicist, I would probably be a musician. I often think in music. I live my daydreams in music. I see my life in terms of music."

–– Albert Eienstein

"Joy, sorrow, tears, lamentation, laughter -- to all these music gives voice, but in such a way that we are transported from the world of unrest to a world of peace, and see reality in a new way, as if we were sitting by a mountain lake and contemplating hills and woods and clouds in the tranquil and fathomless water."
–– Albert Schweitzer

“When I hear music, I fear no danger. I am invulnerable. I see no foe. I am related to the earliest times, and to the latest."
–– Henry David Thoreau

I focus on music because it is dear to my heart. And I quote those who were speaking of classical music, because it soothes the soul. But any good music with beautiful melody and engaging rhythm is highly valuable to our culture and civilization. We all know that. We just need to keep that in mind when it comes to funding our educational system, and fund music, art, literature, history, civics, and geography just as much as we fund the STEM subjects.

Finally I’ll just say that Americans have been sold on the idea that victory in competition is everything, and that we must be “Number One.” But that is not what’s most important. Creativity is the thing that is most valuable and enriching, and the satisfaction and enjoyment it brings is far longer lasting.

Let us nourish the soul of all, not feed the individual or national ego.

© 2007 Joseph J. Adamson
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