Student group pushes to carry concealed weapons on campuses

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nation/bal-students1121,0,3804508.story

SAN MARCOS, Texas - Mike Guzman and thousands of other students say the best way to prevent campus bloodshed is more guns.

Guzman, an economics major at Texas State University-San Marcos, is among 8,000 students nationwide who have joined the nonpartisan Students for Concealed Carry on Campus, arguing that students and faculty already licensed to carry concealed weapons should be allowed to pack heat along with their textbooks.

"It's the basic right of self defense," said Guzman, a 23-year-old former Marine. "Here on campus, we don't have that right, that right of self defense."

Every state but Illinois and Wisconsin allows residents some form of concealed handgun carrying rights, with 36 states issuing permits to most everyone who meets licensing criteria. The precise standards vary from state to state, but most require an applicant to be at least 21 and to complete formal instruction on use of force.

Many states forbid license-holders from carrying weapons on school campuses, while in states where the decision is left to the universities, schools almost always prohibit it. Utah is the only state that expressly allows students to carry concealed weapons on campus.

College campuses are different from other public places where concealed weapons are allowed. Thousands of young adults are living in close quarters, facing heavy academic and social pressure -- including experimenting with drugs and alcohol -- in their first years away from home.

..snip

This makes me a bit queasy, seeing guns enter into the campus environment. On the other hand, if someone is legally allowed to carry a concealed weapon, why should that not be allowed on a college campus, as they are adults.

As a professor I would welcome the opportunity to carry (I have a Georgia Firearms License) or have students who qualify carry on campus. Its not the folks who get licensed to carry that scare me, its the folks who break the law to carry on campus that worry me.

its the unqualified carriers that are scary. they are the ones out do do harm.

If a person is over 21, has taken the time to go through a class, pass a background check, and purchase a gun, why not? We trust them in a bank with the gun, in a restaurant with a gun, in the library with a gun, but not in school?

I had a class that let out at 10pm in a downtown area at the CC I was attending. My gun was in my backpack; not so I could "shoot it out" on the college campus, but because it was a very uncomfortable 4-5 block walk to my car on dark nights after class. Oddly enough, I never got drunk at a frat party and shot a single person with it. :)

where Firearms (handguns) are mandatory, the violent crime rate dropped next to zero.
http://www.city-data.com/forum/politics-other-controversies/89414-kennesaw-georgia-mandatory-gun-law.html
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B0DE6DC133CF932A25757C0A961948260
http://www.mcsm.org/kennesaw.html

You wanna give every person in Chicago? Detroit? New York? Los Angeles? a handgun? So we'll all be safer? Safer because everyone will just walk around with their hands in their pockets, flicking the safety on and off, totally suspicious of everyone else. You won't ask someone for the time, let alone his wallet if you're gonna get a gun in the face. Maybe it'll be safer because people just won't interact with each other anymore.

What a fucking stupid idea.

Nothing but Orwellian doublespeak. More guns will never equal more safe. More paranoid and more isolated perhaps, but never more safe.

You have some imagination, I'll give you that. But heres where your imagination ends and reality begins. For years anti-concealed carry folks swore up and down, that allowing concealed carry would be a return to the wild west. That blood would run in the streets. It hasn't. Noone here that I am aware of is proposing that EVERYONE carry a gun, only that those that pass the qualifications, and wish to, be allowed to do so.

Now, if you want to argue that your scenario above would happen under real life concealed carry conditions, by all means, do so. I'll even get you pointed in the right direction were to look for potential problems with concealed carry.

This map:




If you really want to argue against concealed carry, please point out the problems that all those states allowing concealed have caused.

I'm interested in seeing just what kind of case you can make against it, but speculation, supposition, and conjecture do not a case make. Bring facts to the table. Unless you can make the case that more guns=less safe, you have no fact based grounds to disallow carrying of concealed weapons.

I'm arguing against forcibly arming the population ala the second link above. I'll edit my scenario above so that people are carrying the guns openly if that helps.

If you're carrying a weapon, it's probably a good idea to conceal it.

My point is that if you forcibly arm everyone, it's stupid.

thats still theory, speculation, and conjecture. You can't say for sure what would happen.

On the other hand though, We DO know what happened when the people were effectively disarmed in places like DC and Chicago.

I would tend to agree with you, though, that if you forcibly arm everyone, it would be dumb. And it would conflict with my belief in people being allowed to make thier own choices.


On edit: You did say "More guns = more safe? Doublespeak gibberish."

Do you or do you not believe that concealed carry should be allowed on campus:

Do you or do you not wish to debate it?

in the way we respect each other. yes sir and yes ma'am would become the norm once again. controlling one self to avoid confrontation. unlike now where I know I can say FUCK YOU without repercussion.

I had to pass a Federal and state background check, a mental health records check, get fingerprinted, have my prints run by the FBI (clean), take a class on self-defense law using a state-approved curriculum, pass a written test on self-defense law administered by the sheriff's department, and demonstrate proficiency with a handgun on a shooting range (live fire). I am probably more proficient with a handgun than the average non-SWAT police officer in most jurisdictions, and definitely more so than your average college campus security officer.

People with carry licenses aren't the problem, and barring us from carrying in certain locations does nothing to make those locations safer.

FWIW, given the age restrictions for CHL issuance and whatnot, the majority of people carrying on campuses would likely be college staff, not students.