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pdxmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 11:14 AM
Original message
Where do all the presidential candidates (Dems included) get this
idea that the number one job of the President is to protect the people? Even within the oath of office, the word "preserve" comes before the word "protect" and they both refer to the Constitution, not the populace. Someone needs to clue these candidates in on what their job entails and what they will be swearing to do.
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
1. That is right: National Security never trumps Human Rights.
I don't want a President telling me that they are there to protect me. I can't give some public persona that much trust.

When they sell us that crap, and we buy it, they can walk all over Us, Our Rights, and the Constitution.
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pdxmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. I think the majority of the people don't understand what "Human rights"
means. They see it from a simple view - women shouldn't be abused, there shouldn't be ethnic cleansing, etc. They don't see it as the whole of what makes up our Constitution.

I'm beginning to believe that the biggest problem in this country isn't health care, terrorism, or any of the issues we discuss. It's the ignorance of the people, as a whole, over what makes this country, this country.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. So true I wish it were possible to recommend a post
This is at the heart of the matter!

The fact that some of those idiots you see on TV "news" even have a job proves it. Rush, Insanity, O'Lielly, Lou Dobbs - the whole bunch should be fired because they bring down ratings because the audience rejects them as too ignorant. The lowest common denominator has been allowed too much power, because they are so damn numerous!

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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #5
15. I agree that we need to do a better job of educating our children
not excluding ourselves mind you, We have an excellent school system theres just more emphasis need put on teaching right from wrong, might from fright, why it is not, not why it can't be and on and on. we've all heard the saying thinking out of the box, think about it
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pdxmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. My kids are both out of high school, and I was appalled as they were
going through how little civics were taught and how it was taught. And heaven forbid if they ever talked about current events. It was a travesty.
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #18
23. looking back over the years I wished I had paid a lot more attention in civics class
amazing how I can see now what I couldn't see then, having said that that is why real education should be at the top of the agenda in all high schools. what good did algrebra do me, oh some but not a lot, what good did diagraming a sentence do me, as you can see by my lack of writing skills I didn't learn much there and others. I wish more emphasis would've been put on history and civics classes for me. but thats just me I guess
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #1
13. as is happening right now with this criminal crew
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #1
19. McCain had trouble with this concept this morning
on ABC. Wish I had the transcript...
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
2. Having bogeymen to "protect" us from is essential for politicians..and it's good for business.
“The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.” H.L. Mencken
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ladjf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #2
10. As simple as that. (nt)
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
3. Fear mindset. Promote, then prey upon.
Lather, rinse, repeat.
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pdxmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. I just have such a hard time with the fact that the populace is so horribly
ignorant of the functions of the government and are so willing to allow their liberties to be crushed over this "my job is to protect you" lie.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
6. I've been debating this one since 911
They want the job of "protecting" the populace, because to do so, they can argue they need the power to do so.

Yet once they have that power, we not only have the threats posed before, but the threat from the government having too much power.
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ladjf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #6
12. The human race seems to be too dumb to survive
Edited on Sun Nov-25-07 11:36 AM by ladjf
Or, it could just be the results of decades of propaganda heaped upon them by malicious professionals.
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Mist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
7. Plus "Protection" is more remunerative for the defense industry than
Edited on Sun Nov-25-07 11:30 AM by lulu in NC
"Preserving the Constitution."
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pdxmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. So how do we change it? I expect to hear the Repukes pushing this
canard, but I've heard the Dems saying it too. I'm not hearing any of them talk about preserving the Constitution. Ever.
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flashl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #7
16. Exactly. Any federal agency with a budget that demands a percentage of GDP needs watching. n/t
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ladjf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
9. They "get it" from the observation that a majority of Americans
seem to be acting like field mice. They are running scared. Remember back when there was a run on duct tape because they were sealing off their homes from poison gas? They are in mortal fear of terrorist hijacking airliners despite the fact that statistically, any one American's chances to be killed in that manner approach nil.

On the other hand, we think nothing of neglecting our health, including the environment in situations that statistically point toward very likely fatal outcomes.

We are mortally afraid of things that are unlikely to harm us and fearless about likely dangers.
How does that happen? The lack of valid deductive reasoning processes.

Politicians know that the main "buzz" issue is the security of the "homeland". So, all must spout it or run the risk of not being elected.
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pdxmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. Security is an issue. I wouldn't argue that. We should have been
concentrating on that well before 9/11. My gripe is that so many candidates perpetuate the myth that protecting the citizens from harm is their number 1 job. Their number 1 job is to preserve and protect that Constitution, and they're treating it like it is just another piece of old paper.
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ladjf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #14
21. If we really want to do something to make America secure, then
we'd better keep a close eye on China's space program. The first Country to successfully deploy massive space based nuclear rocketry will be in the position to defeat any other Country on Earth in minutes without the loss of a single life from the attacking Country. The only question would be, would such a Country profit from doing so?


Other than that, there is no Country that could, would or even want to attack the United States.

The idea that we could be conquered by Muslim extremists is ludicrous.

However, if the U.S. continues it's current actions of attacking any ME Country unilaterally, whenever it wishes, some serious retaliations could conceivably happen, such as a couple of ship or submarine launched short or intermediate ranges nuclear missiles slammed into some large Coastal cities.

And should the U.S. continue its strategy of world bully, even some of our present allies might have to start thinking about consolidating their military resources to get us under control. Right now, America is the number one terrorist entity in the world.

It's possible that a Democratic President and Congress could turn that around.
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pdxmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. You're spot on! I have never been able to figure out why the politicians
have been able to get away with the fearmongering meme that the radical Muslims were going to come here and take over our country. That if we don't attack the Muslim countries (who happen to have oil we need), we'll all be praying to Allah in 10 years. Who buys that line? Evidently, quite a few people, and the ignorance of such is overwhelming.
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
17. I think that's what most people want to hear -- that someone will protect.
They are what Bob Altemeyer calls authoritarian followers & I think they have become more prevalent as we have been encouraged to trade in our citizenship to become consumers. They want some one to protect them & think for them. They don't want the complications that go with critical thinking & being responsible for their actions. They want the ease of living the way they are instructed & feel that that will guarantee them an easier life. Some are finally waking up & realizing they've been had, but not nearly enough.

Here's Bob's book about authoritarians -- both leaders & followers. It's an online book & free.

http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/

I think American society is one of the most fearful of all the developed countries. Land of the free, home of the brave? Not any more.

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flashl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
20. Politicians successfully uses crime as a "protection" message long after crime stats dropped
because it STILL works.
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pdxmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. I've noticed that. And now we know that they are using the warrantless
wiretap model on domestic cases, so that we are "safe". To hell with that. Those are MY rights they're taking away and someone else's irrational fear isn't worth it.
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