How much danger do you think Democracy is in?

Do you think, as I and many others do, that we are being pushed further and further towards fascism?

Do you think this is the biggest threat facing this country? If not, what do you perceive to be the most serious threat we face?

will determine whether our Republic survives or not, which is why it is essential that Democrats win in 2008

SCOTUS is an excellent example of why voting for ANY Dem is essential in the GE.

They're already the most corporate-friendly SCOTUS in the history of this country. They are very careful about which cases are heard.

However I think there are other issues which IMO not just any Dem will fight or even address.

You have Stevens, Ginsberg are most likely to retire in the coming years

you have Kennedy and others in their seventies

Most corporate friendly?

Are you serious that you believe that if a republican won the election, he would appoint a less corporate justice than any of the Democratic candidates?

There are other issues besides that, civil rights, illegal wire tapping, illegal wars, gitmo, and other issues that WILL come up before the court

EVERYONE OF THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES said they will support judges like scalia and thomas. These are federalist society judges like bork, who believed that a barber has the right to refuse to give a haircut to someone because of his color

Every Democratic candidate said they would preserve the right to privacy

Read the book The Nine, by Jeffrey Toobin. The stakes have NEVER been greater

"Are you serious that you believe that if a republican won the election, he would appoint a less corporate justice than any of the Democratic candidates?"

:wtf:

Which is why I was so confused by your next post.

And we have not had a democracy ever since. Only the semblance of one. Electing a dem would be nice, but will make no overall difference

because which Democratic president is going to push congress to impeach the SC criminal who installed Bush?

In order to call yourself a Democracy, the ability to count votes accurately should be a top priority. We all know how well that works in this country.

We hold primaries, elections, etc...and give the appearance of a Democracy -- but that's it.

If a republican were to win, I think it would get enough people out in the streets that they would either have to do the martial law thing or make some changes to their plan. I think they plan on giving us Clinton so we feel like the country is now saved and they no longer want a dictatorship that takes care of the elite. I cant believe the amount of people that feel that way, they truly think that if Clinton gets in, the evil plan is destroyed and the good prevail. :rofl:

That will only quiet some down and steal a little more of the common sense from those who think all is well.

on several occasions, as it is now. I don't know if it's the greatest threat though. The economy taking a fatal dive is right up there- though that also threatens democracy even further. I do think that if we can elect larger majorities of dems in Congress and a dem prez, we'll veer away from fascism.

Agreed about the economy. That's another shock-doctrine tactic, after all. Another excuse to push us even further toward fascism.

and mostly already here mit der illegal spying, illegal surveillance, 40,000 annual Blackwater trainees, the MSM propaganda machine, firefighters to report discontent with government as potential terrorist activity, swooping up of anyone as a terraist suspect for rendition/torture, concentration camps, stolen/fraudulent elections, perpetual wars, a "president" who can dub and sweep up any person as a terraist for any reason he likes, a "president" who is the decider of all things, a compliant Congress which fails to perform its constitutionally-mandated duties of oversight, the purse strings, declaration of war authority, and impeachment responsibility, but rather marches in almost lockstep fashion to the whim of the decider, a Supreme Court which anointed junior such a serious malfeasance if the eyes of some that they tag the culprits as the felonious five, and a "president" who can declare martial law and do away with elections should he choose 'cause he is the decider of all, all this surely wholly constituting a one-man rule. What's missing for the nice word "fascism" to already be here?

Good question.

It was a time when this country was much less populated , people were physically more fit because of the work they had to do . People had guns and the constitution was not shreaded .

We also did have such a mix of different races from all over the globe who were seen as some sort of threat .

I just don't see that anything is the same now as then .

Can you imagine what a civil war would look like now , who is the enemy and how would one recogise an enemy unless it was a police state with martial law then we would know for the most part and then we would surely be out gunned , hell I don't even have a gun .

...and Election fraud is at the heart of it.

All attempts at resusitation have failed.
Call the coroner.

Every republican except Paul will likely attempt to expand Bush's foolishness. I think some of the Dems might try to as well.

It may be possible to reinstitute democracy in the US if we elect a leader with the knowledge, understanding, and platform of Dennis Kucinich along with a sympathetic Congressional majority, and give a leadership coalition of this type enough time to root out the fascists and the remnants of their anti-American policies.

Yes, I believe that fascism is far and away the greatest threat to the US. The ramifications of fascism are insidious and many, and are destructive in every area into which they branch. Fascism will destroy the environment of the earth if it is not stopped.

You can't get a much more serious threat than that.

"The global power of the financial centers is so great, that they can afford not to worry about the political tendency of those who hold power in a nation, if the economic program (in other words, the role that nation has in the global economic megaprogram) remains unaltered. The financial disciplines impose themselves upon the different colors of the world political spectrum in regards to the government of any nation. The great world power can tolerate a leftist government in any part of the world, as long as the government does not take measures that go against the needs of the world financial centers. But in no way will it tolerate that an alternative economic, political and social organization consolidate. For the megapolitics, the national politics are dwarfed and submit to the dictates of the financial centers. It will be this way until the dwarfs rebel . ."

http://flag.blackened.net/revolt/mexico/ezln/1997/jigsaw.html

We need leaders that will recognize and promise to fight this battle.

and the leader(s) with the understanding and platforms to fight the battle.

Otherwise, our approach to solving our national problems will be something like treating a malignant cancer with cigarettes and band-aids, instead of cutting the tumor out and doing our best to prevent its return.

I'm surprised that I was the first to nominate this.

Democracy is in trouble. Our Constitution is being attacked by corporate entities that are not exclusive to any one party, sex, or ethnic group; but are members of an exclusive economic group.

The threat to democracy is severe. When the Constitution is damaged, good people are handcuffed, and become far less capable of dealing with any other problem.

:thumbsup:

the voters for the favor of the big corporations. The population seems subdued by confusion caused by the limited, and intimidated media. I do remember when we did have some brave politicians who really did fight for their voting bloc. But most really feared the media attacks from the newspapers, and maybe some specials exposing them on TV. I was raised in the NY metro area, and in the 1950s we had access to at least 7-8 newspapers, all with differing viewpoints, and most always looking for the 'big expose'. Somehow, we became a nation of spineless leaders, and beaten followers. Just go shopping!

and depleting natural resources worldwide and the threat appears larger IMO.

I hope more of us are aware of the dangers, and won't be manipulated into allowing even more of our government to be outsourced to corporate privateers.

pension plans with a limited choice of funds in which to invest. I think there are many factors coming into play within the next decade or two, that if not handled properly, will only increase the divide between rich and poor. We need a bold change in direction this election.

I think Fascism is too strong a word for the danger we face.

But I do think we're slipping in the direction of a Permanent Class System, in which a small number in the upper class have far too much of the power and wealth, while the majority are shut out.

There is still enough of a residue of democracy left that can rectify this. However, the majority will have to wake up damn soon before it really will be too late.

Would you mind letting me know why you think fascism is too strong a word?

"We can either have democracy in this country or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of few," remarked US Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis. "But we can't have both."

The question is not how to protect democracy, but how to get it back.

and not just in the USA, not by a longshot.

Democracy in this country has been dead for 20 years, at least.

yes and yes.

republic where the rich, the encorporated, and certain social movements have far more representation than us mere citizens. In fact, citizenship is losing its meaning and we're becoming "subjects" again.
x(

change the system and those are the ways the fascists will try to create laws to make it impossible, limiting free speech, spying, creating "terrorist laws" against Green activists.

for precisely this reason.

That's how they figured out how they could steal the 2000 election.

...No more than the Titanic is any longer in danger.

I hope. Can't argue tho.

... not to lose hope -- sometimes I just have to vent -- I'd put myself on ignore if I knew how.

me on ignore years ago. But like you, I still have to listen to myself. Oh yeah, so does my cat.

...they seem to be able to tolerate me so long as the milk bones don't run out.

If it will be, we can have democracy(or people being able to buy stuff...6 of one, half a dozen). If not, and the job still needs to be done, we won't.

We need to elect leaders who will not continue to allow energy companies to make billions in profits, setting new records year after year.

If we elect leaders who will play ball with those pirates, then we will get what we deserve, I suppose.

when groups get too big it gets difficult to have decent democracy, esp when there get to be very polarized, perhaps fundamentalist, groups within the larger. However, I also believe that democracy (meaning each has an equal say on every issue) is only 1 decent way to go. It gets difficult when there are so many people that we must elect others as representatives as that is an inaccurate thing.

Combine democracy (all have an equal say) as a political thing and socialism (basics of needs and work (income and outgo?) are provided to all) as an economic thing and you'd make me happy, being a librul with low moral values and all. Not sure if I'm using "socialism" right, not sure if it's the right word. But that gets into another whole topic.

possible if we don't go passed the "tipping point" of no return. Currently the nation has, for the most part, accepted the attacks on the Constitution without significant outrage. The precedent has been set. The corporate/fascist have proven that major freedoms can be eliminated without significant outrage. Even if we manage to regain some of our freedoms, it will be just that much easier to lose them in the next major attack. And the Corporate/fascists have unlimited finances and will continue to attack. The major candidates, with exception of DK, have not convinced me that restoring the Constitution is a major issue. The masses won't miss freedom until it is probably too late.

Our forefathers fought for freedom, should we be any different?

RE: New surveillance technology.

Well... I do know of a few exceptions in Latin America.

when I was in the middle of the Brazilian Sertão (the desert below the Amazonas). Not a goddamn electronic device in sight, and the few satellites I saw at night were likely communications satellites, which do not have high resolution thermal imaging sensors. Same goes for when I lived in Costa Rica.

I'm awake.

:sarcasm:

It's a Constitutional Republic.

And thanks for the genius.

Okay then smartass... how much danger is IT in?

Jesus.

I am fairly confident that our Constitutional Republic is in absolutely no danger of collapse. I don't buy into the mass hysteria perpetuated by the "sky is falling" crowd here on DU, present company excluded, of course. :eyes:

;)

Anyhow so have you read Naomi Klein's book? Seems like there definitely is a pattern to me... and we seem to be well on our way down the same track other countries have traveled.

onal. Or am I missing something (don't answer that it was rhetorical). Maybe the "hysterical" crowd is using the wrong definition of fascism. Please enlighten us.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_republic

Thanks for raising this point. I'm very pleased to have discovered that the US is supposed to be a liberal democracy!

Elections must not only be fair, they must be perceived as fair in order to be legitimate. Neither party is seriously addressing this crisis of confidence in our country. Neither party is dealing with the unavoidable fact that the current administration has committed "high crimes and misdemeanors", which means that we are no longer a government of laws.

This, also, worries me.

has been significantly reduced. The corporations used to need the American middle class for labor, so they tolerated some control. Now they no longer need our labor, they just want our money.

*Corporatic State - A made up name for fascistic state. And yes I am driving the spell checker crazy.

The difference is that past generations cherished their freedom more then the average apathetic Americans of today.

That should be in every schoolroom.

Considering some of the politicians that "we the people" have put in power.

I'm pretty bad with poorly-worded posts. :blush:

What the hell?

:crazy:

The media manipulates hordes of ignorant people to vote for one of two people whose policies are now so similar that it doesn't fucking matter who wins...lessee.......hmmm, warmonger number One or Warmonger number Two?

:crazy:

rigid ideologies like fundamentalist religion, corporate control of government, and a media unwilling to tell the unvarnished truth is killing us.

If you are old enough to remember the days of the "Cold War", then you will remember the clock put out by an organization of concerned scientists.

The clock showed how close the world was to Total Nuclear War.

It always registered somewhere around 10-15 minutes to midnight.

Midnight was Total Nuclear War.

How close are we to fascism?

About twnety seconds to midnight.

Our biggest threat: George Bush and Dick Cheney, with a compliant Congress that refuses to impeach them.

:thumbsup:

The climate change and environmental issues will make the end of democracy in the United States look insignificant. Of course there is a relationship between these things...

That is the main problem here in the US.....Pffffttt

:hi: