i want to bring attention a post that caught my eye

this was posted yesterday

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2560689#2567038

and all i have to say is have we become the same generalizing, broadbrushing hating people that we love to call the republicans?

the post deals with calling all republicans sexual deviants because they want torture because its what gets them off. all of them. What suprised me was the amount of people aggreing with the poster. Does the majority of DU agree with this? I hope not, I thought i had found a group of openminded people but the hate that seemed to spew from this post just turned me off of DU.

I don't like some of the broad-brush stereotyping people do here, but I can't control it either. :shrug:

:thumbsup: PURE scum.....and YES, they do get off on torture.

on a very basic level what makes you any better if your going to make preconcieved notions about these people, when you say republicans you are slandering the other half of america, not just who resides in the whitehouse. think before you speak and if you are a true democrate then you have got to understand that the opposite party is not the enemy but a different frame of mind. you cannot be as stupid as to pigeon hole half the country are you? seing as how diverse the democrats are you do realize the repubs are probably as diverse on opinions and education.

Killers, car-jackers, rapists, thieves, pedophiles, child abusers,domestic violence

drunk drivers, republicans etc

Wake up and smell the shit

tell everyone else that they are scum? bring the nation down with you. hatred is a virus that spreads from person to person. hatred is a tool used by the administration to seperate and alienate us. when i first joined i remember reading posts about positive encounters people had with repubs. how they would say "why they are not to different then us" would you use hatred to further destroy america? or would you rather get rid of those shackles recognize that your country men are your brother and be prepared to open your heart and welcome them in so that an understanding can be reached? i mean sounds really silly but whats the alternative? big walls?

you would want to call half of america, my brother, that other guys mother and alot of our relatives and neighbors sexual deviants who get off on torture? i mean my real question is when you guys say all republicans do you really mean all republicans? or just those in the administration?

You sure do hate a lot. I pity your acquaintances.

into the dirt with their endless investigations of Clinton. Their lying us into an illegal invasion on Iraq. Their approving the illegal wiretapping of U.S. citizens. Their killing of hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi men, women and children. Their destruction of the health care system...NIXON. Their attempted destruction of the Social Security System. Their pure HATRED of POOR people in this country. Their GREEDY THIRST for OIL. Their no-bid Halliburton contracts that filled their crony's pockets with a lot of money. Their trying to privitize our military and paying our soldiers a FRACTION of what they pay BLACKWATER mercenaries. Their SHAMEFUL non-reaction to Katrina victims. Their torture of Abu Ghraib prisoners. Their RAPE of CHILDREN and the WIVES of Abu Ghraib prisoners. The firing of USAs so they could replace them with "Loyal Bushies." I could go on and on and on (it's a never ending list)....and EVERY ONE OF THEIR SUPPORTERS ARE JUST AS BAD AS THOSE WHO COMMITTED ALL OF THOSE CRIMES BECAUSE THEY KNEW WHAT THEY WERE DOING AND CONDONED IT! They still do!

Don't defend those parasites! They represent EVERYTHING Democrats abhor. They are indefensible. They are what is wrong with this country! HOW the hell can you be defending the very people who made all of this happen???? HOW?!@#$%^%$# THEY have destroyed my country! How can you defend them? They knew who they were voting for. There are people who are STILL voting for repukes in this country. It is NOT just a matter of a "a different frame of mind".......it is a matter of this country STANDING or FALLING. It is a matter of whether this country becomes a Theocracy or remains a Republic. Do you REALLY see Ayatollah Huckabee as a "frame of mind????" It is a matter of whether a woman will still have the freedom to CHOOSE an abortion or go to prison because she has one! It is a matter of whether my son, a JEW, will be forced to say Christian prayers in our Public Schools and outcast if he doesn't! It is a matter of whether people will be able to afford their medicine or have spend that money on food. It is a matter of being able to go to a doctor if you are ill or just DYING because you can't afford a doctor. This is NOT a simple matter of "a frame of mind." We are dealing with MAJOR ideologues who want to take our country and turn it into a damn NIGHTMARE and they are well on their way.

republican politicians and republican citizens. republican citizens may have helped bring nixon and the like into power.what you have to remember is that the republican citizenry is different from republican administrations. I do agree alot of the decisions that some repubs want to make are ill informed and could take this country down a drastic path towards destruction. calling them all sexual deviants who get off on torture does not help this. if we want to change minds and hearts we must have ours open. that is my point and calling all republicans psychosexual preditors does not help this cause. we need to be united not devided.

have enough DLCers and they have done their share of damage already. We do not need MORE of them.

Anyone that supports the repuke party, defends and supports torture. Otherwise, would they not vote Democratic?

so every democrat supports adultery right? just like we democrats have to give and take on our candidates so must the republicans. they come in all flavors, their all not dumb inbred hicks who fear the gay,foreign, radicals. my brother is a republican he hates bush, does not condones torture and is really interested in ron paul (trying to teach him about corporatism but it takes time) anyways its not just left right and center, we are america we have a country that "we" supposedly control, its not "they have american for 4 years then we have it for 4" we collectively choose a president and decide who should run the country. if we educate and reach out with an open hand do they have a better chance of understanding and seeing where we are coming from? i think so .

and learn something before he actually votes. Your brother supports TORTURE???? Good G-d, help me.

You have to understand something. Those people know EXACTLY what they are doing and nothing you say is going to change anything they think or do. They have an agenda and will stop at nothing to further it. They know where we are coming from already.

Every Democrat may not support adultery, but they sure as hell don't believe it's any of their damn business what other people are doing in their own PRIVATE lives and bedrooms! THAT is the difference here.

my bro does not support torture, that was a mistype. the adultry thing was to show you how pigheaded you are being and how paranoid you are by believing that half the country is marching in lockstep against us. if that was true they would muster up more then a couple people at our protests, bush would have alot better approval rating and we would not have this democratic landslide set up for '08 your arguments are fundamentally flawed as is your psycosis if you contineu to think that half this country hates the concepts america is founded on and half this country is dilligently working for the downfall of america. I believe only the wealthy and powerfull who are in office have anything to gain from the downfall of america, not the people who inhabit it.

private military, a private SS program, poor people to "pull themselves up by their bootstraps, abortion outlawed, the SCOTUS stacked with RW ideologues and repuke rule forever. I'm not being pigheaded. I followed up my other post with facts. Facts are facts. Repukes have ruined this country and those who support them CONDONE it.

What protests are you talking about? The ones in DC where HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS showed up to protest? That's a "couple of people?"

I'm glad your brother doesn't support Ron Paul.

are you serious? first reread my post. my point was only a couple republicans came to counter demonstraight against us. 2. my brother likes ron paul but does not support torture. 3. you are wrong in pigeon holing the republicans because i know republicans who do not want ss privatized, abortion outlawed , that know that a balanced SCOTUS is paramount to the continuation of the US. I know who you are, i have met people like you, we talk of facism all the time, ill tell you their are more roads that lead to facism then just the republican one and by labeling everyone who does not agree with your views i can see you walking along one of those same paths.

:rofl: Holy crap. Up is down and Black is White, eh? Yeah...I know who YOU are too.

Okay...so your brother does like Ron Paul...back to my other post. The man is a RACIST! He has accepted money from Stormfront.com a White Supremacist group. Your brother needs to know who the hell he's voting for then! Just reading your posts, it doesn't surprise me you have a brother who actually likes Ron Paul.

and if you are going to label everyone who doesnt adhere to your exact mental picture of the world as a devient or subhuman then yes you are a facist. if I was a facist i would be agreeing with you and saying "they should all be locked up because they are a threat to me and people like me"

Just don't call them names! It's not nice! Sheesh. Get your priorities straightened out, would you? And where did I say they should all be locked up? Stop exaggerating what I said. THAT is what they want to do to US...the DEMOCRATS in this country. You just can't handle the truth because you have family members who support the repuke party who have DESTROYED this country and you know they have destroyed this country and your family members are partly to blame for it.

i can spot the flaws in america without going "its all their fault" I realize that this country needs to heal and stop fighting with each other. I understand that if human beings are to rise above simple animals that we need to understand each other. This country was destroyed by the elite for themselves. This country was destroyed by people who profited from it, dont confuse yourself. Alot of republicans are ashamed they voted for bush. alot of republicans didn't want this to happen. 1 person does not represetn an entire groups thoughts and feelings. contineau to spew your anger and hate. I'm done with you, i'm gonna go have a discussion withsomeone about what I can do to make the world a better place, not have a whack off session with another like minded person about how fucked up another group is.

How delusional can you be? That is the last thing on their minds!

See ya! have fun defending the repuke party.:hi:

does not mean i'm dumb, it just means i do not want to fight my entire life. I eventually want peace.

That's a fact you need to accept.

your not even a part of. i'm done with you, you have nothing further of value to add to this conversation except more paranoid rambling.

Some day you will learn.

Most Independents now lean D, so Republicans probably aren't more than 35%.

how can you pigeon hole 35% of america as being sexually excited by torture.

I didn't participate in that thread and have no opinion of it. Just wanted to correct the 'half of America' thing.

as Philosoraptor did not say "all republicans."

following three.

Willfully ignorant
In denial
and/or just not right

Take your pick. And I don't agree that half this country is Republican.

perverted? their are alot of traditionalist republicans still around. Not this bush 41&43 neocon bs. if you write off a huge portion of americas population how are we going to be able to come together?

you say that if we were in a room together and not an anonymous internet board?

my brother is a republican and one of the most honest kind people i know.

who if given the chance would be a drain on society and leech off of the commen good. since being a democrat is one step closer to socialism (in his mind) he tends to vote republicans (although he did abstain from the 2000 and 2004 election just because he didn't want bush and couldnt vote for kerry or gore.

I don't like it or agree with it, but it was only natural that the constant vilification of the left would lead to this. George Bush & the GOP: dividers, not uniters...

By "season", I mean primary season, not holiday season.

DU.

I do not care for these type threads. What I think happens
is a few start, then it becomes a game with each person trying
to out do the other.

I hope more people will ignore and not join in.
Do not judge the whole of DU by this bizarre behavior which
breaks out every now and then.

just their Politician's and Church leaders.

so I generally stay away from those threads. Hell, I don't even like the nicknames we call them or how people say I would have helped them but they had a Bush/Cheney sticker. I understand the sentiment but just can't join it.

... are ones I avoid even reading; but I respect the free marketplace of ideas, and would rather those memes be aired for examination.

- Dave

unless it's very bad satire, it's one of the most fucked up things I've read here. And that makes it VERY fucked up.

You're right-- the number of people agreeing with the OP is amazing. And, as with a lot of these bottom of the swamp posts, I'm really more surprised at the people agreeing than with the idiotic OP.

'pukes are heavily represented in the BDSM community. And that is, by definition, deviant sexual behavior.

edited to add:

Saying that they are ALL sexual deviants, is of course an unfair characterization. However, based on what I've seen, it's more than you probably think.

for the purposes of physical pleasure and the highly emotional psycological pain of torture. they are two different things if in essance the only thing that seperates it is if its volunteer or not. and its a far cry from saying all republicans get off sexual to torture.

it IS totally consensual, however things like high voltage electric shock applied to the genitals and depriving someone of oxygen are very similar to some torture tactics.
And this turns them on. I'd say it qualifies.
But that's just me.

My role in this was providing the "controlled environment" and ensuring the participants safety.

What else is "deviant sexual behavior"?

I'm not knocking it, I've worked in the industry for 8 years and wouldn't trade my experiences for anything. I'm just presenting a little of my experience that seems relevant.

That being male-female missionary position?

I just don't understand this point you're trying to make. So what if republicans like BDSM or doggy-style or *gasp* some are gay!?

I find it curious that you're somehow using this as a point of contention with the GOP.

clients are republicans, probably more of a percentage then liberal clients. he is not trying to make a point just saying something from experiance, don't start jumping on backs.

first off, in case I wasn't clear the first time, I'm a deviant. A pervert. A demented freak. I know about these people that I'm talking about because they are my friends. My friends are sexual deviants. I'm not knocking it. I have no issue with anybody being gay, as a matter of fact, these parties are often held at gay bars, and I was a manager of a gay bar. So, I'm not anti-gay. I'm not anti-deviant.
I use the word deviant because it is accurate, and many people in the scene refer to each other as "perverts" as a term of endearment.

So, my point is simply this.
Some people are into particularly extreme activities i.e.
a taser-like device with a glass dildo on the end, used to administer high voltage shocks to the genitals.
They have special masks that have hoses on them that allow someone else to control how much air you get. Imagine being restrained and all someone has to do to kill you is cover the end of a hose with their thumb and not take it off.
Or being restrained (on equipment) and whipped till you bleed.
These things are very similar to torture. Not the same, but close. Of course all this is consensual, people pay ( a lot!) to come to these. the 'pukes are very well represented.
So, saying that they are sexually aroused by torture makes perfect sense, to me at least.

how did you bring up politics with your clientell?

"so you like a**play eh?"
"how do you feel about bush screwing us" (joke but my question was serious)

:shrug:

Seems odd that one would know the political leanings of this clientele.

first you attack Edweird because she was trying to explain that alot of the people he works with are into deviant behavior, trying to attack his usage of it, now you are making fun of it. just odd. He worked at a bar so I'm sure he talked to alot of his clientell i just wanted to know how he brought it up .

Is that attacking now?

with the whole toy/party joke.

And they aren't my "clientelle". They are somebody else's customers. I work for that person.

I was baffled that one's sexual activity is in ANY way related to political affiliation and a bit concerned that there might be some idea that we, as Democrats would ever use someone's sexual activity as some kind of point of contention.

And, secondly, I seriously question how one can say that there's a "heavy representation of 'pukes" in this "deviant activity". I just don't see people on either side mixing their politics with their "deviant behavior".

I also take issue with the general term of "deviant sexual behavior". Even if they own it. That implies a stray from what's accepted. I'd like to think that I, and others here, accept people and the choices made by consenting adults.

alot about so called "deviant lifestyles" is what i call the "kink" factor. the kink factor is they psycological aspect thrown in with physical sex. some people need to feel controlled, some people need to feel helpless, some people need to feel pain, some people need to inflict pain. it has nothing to do with politics. but when you look at personality types i'm sure you can see someone who is dominant in his politics and bullheaded can take this kind of behavior to the bedroom. and btw in case you hadn't noticed alot of the sexual deviation (children, foot fetish, etc) cases have been coming from the republican representatives.

Sexual behavior, kink, whatever is not in any way related to inflicting torture on prisoners.

You're not making that argument, are you? I think that's what Edweird was trying to do - tie this sexual behavior/kink/fetishism to torturing prisoners. I take issue with that.

just like my original point was. I do not think republicans get off sexually on torture. their are some sick individuals who derive pleasure in inflicting massive amounts of pain on people without their consent but they are very few and far between.

I work for the owner. I make things happen. I'm in the eye of the hurricane and the guy I work for knows everything about everybody there. Plus, some of them are my friends. As in wedding invites, bar-b-q's and what not.

I'm not sure I agree with his conjecture that its all psychosexual, although it IS psychological. It takes a special kind of reasoning to believe that a hypothetical situation with a terrorist outweighs the moral humilitation of having our government tell 6 billion people of the world, through the media, that we practice torture.

the broad brush generalizations about lots of people.

That seems to be a problem with DU that I see lately.

Too much name calling, bashing one another, and broad brushing for my tastes to stand much of GD.

I thought it was one of the more disgusting posts I've seen at DU. I don't know why it wasn't removed.

I do see where the hate can come from when you learn about things such as this (below) it's hard to understand why any Republican would want to vote for leaders such as this unless they are complicit in their thinking:


Romney Fires One Teen-Abuse Linked Financier, Keeps Big One

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/maia-szalavitz/romney-fir...


Posted September 6, 2007 | 12:07 PM (EST)
Read More: Boot Camps, Political Influence, Sembler, Teen Treatment Abuse, Tough Love, Breaking Politics News


Radar has the news that Mitt Romney has kicked troubled-teen titan Robert Lichfield to the curb. Lichfield's organization, the World Wide Association of Specialty Schools and Programs (WWASPS, previously WWASP), is being sued in a class action suit by over 100 plaintiffs, alleging serious sexual, emotional and physical abuse. In the worst cases, teens were beaten, kept in stress positions, sleep deprived, made to walk thousands of laps on a hot desert track, forced to eat their own vomit and held in dog cages. Mexican police shot footage of the dog cages and the track, which was aired on Inside Edition.

* Email
* Print

Another lawsuit alleges educational fraud by one facility-- that facility was already made to pay parents back over $1 million for falsely claiming to provide legitimate New York state high school diplomas, in one of the largest educational fraud judgments in New York history.

Lichfield was Romney's Utah co-chair for finance-- and he has been relieved of that position "until the lawsuit is resolved in the positive, which we are confident will happen," WWASPS spokesperson Ken Kay told Radar. This is the same Ken Kay who said under oath in another civil suit that he did not know whether sex between staff and teens in WWASPS programs was necessarily abusive.

But Romney's national finance co-chair, Mel Sembler, remains. While Sembler has not been linked with any abuse personally, the organization he co-founded, Straight Inc., paid out millions of dollars in similar suits during the 1980's and 1990's. The abuse included kidnapping, false imprisonment, beatings, sexual humiliation (boys were called "fags," girls, "whores"), punitive use of isolation and restraint and bizarre incidents like teens being gagged with Kotex and held on the floor for hours until they wet or even soiled themselves. In every state where Straight had a facility, regulators and/or lawsuits eventually documented serious abuse.

The treatment regime itself is essentially abusive-- it was virtually identical to a program in which Sembler was a participant that a Congressional investigation compared to North Korean brainwashing. (That investigation prompted the founding of Straight as the prior group had been so discredited by the report and resulting bad publicity).

And in Florida, home to both Sembler and the first Straight site, when Straight finally folded in 1993 after nearly two decades of documented abuse cases, lawsuits and investigations, one final investigation suggested that political influence had kept regulators from shutting it down sooner. At the time, Sembler was serving as a U.S. Ambassador. The Florida Inspector General's report said, "there were indications that outside influence was involved with this licensing issue. It appears that pressure may have been generated by Ambassador Sembler ."

Of course, Lichfield has only raised hundreds of thousands for Romney; Sembler, who was national finance chair for the Republican party for the 2000 election season, can raise many millions.

end

----------------------------------------------------

Sembler is one bad apple ... http://www.thestraights.com/index.htm


Although, when you look at the basic premise of RW Authoritarianism it can be very much a group think mentality consisting of leaders and followers:

Right-wing authoritarianism is defined as the co-existence of three attitudinal clusters in a person:

1. Authoritarian submission — a high degree of submission to the authorities who are perceived to be established and legitimate in the society in which one lives.
2. Authoritarian aggression — a general aggressiveness, directed against various persons, that is perceived to be sanctioned by established authorities.
3. Conventionalism — a high degree of adherence to the social conventions that are perceived to be endorsed by society and its established authorities. (Source: Altemeyer, 1996, Chapter 1)

snip>>>>

1: Faulty reasoning — RWAs are more likely to:

* Make many incorrect inferences from evidence.
* Hold contradictory ideas that result from a cognitive attribute known as compartmentalized thinking.
* Uncritically accept that many problems are ‘our most serious problem.’
* Uncritically accept insufficient evidence that supports their beliefs.
* Uncritically trust people who tell them what they want to hear.
* Use many double standards in their thinking and judgments.

2: Hostility Toward Outgroups — RWAs are more likely to:

* Weaken constitutional guarantees of liberty such as the Bill of Rights.
* Severely punish ‘common’ criminals in a role-playing situation.
* Admit they obtain personal pleasure from punishing such people.
* Be prejudiced and hostile against racial, ethnic, nationalistic, sexual and linguistic minorities.
* Volunteer to help the government persecute almost anyone.
* Be mean-spirited toward those who have made mistakes and suffered.

3: Profound Character Attributes — RWAs are more likely to:

* Be dogmatic.
* Be zealots.
* Be hypocrites.
* Be absolutists
* Be bullies when they have power over others.
* Help cause and inflame intergroup conflict.
* Seek dominance over others by being competitive and destructive in situations requiring cooperation.

4: Blindness To One’s Own Failings And To The Failings Of Authority Figures Whom They Respect— RWAs are more likely to:

* Believe they have no personal failings.
* Avoid learning about their personal failings.
* Be highly self-righteous.
* Use religion to erase guilt over their acts and to maintain their self-righteousness.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_Authoritarianism

I almost made a GBCW post based on that thread and the amazing amount of morons who agreed with it.

like when Duers post a long message about how the board sucks now and they're not coming back.

This thread made me think of it tonight as well:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2569384

lots of DUers in that one judging some people on the basis of their race.

a few extended family members, oh and my boyfriend (who's more conservative than I and a big McCain fan), are all into torture.

:puke:
:puke:

And you're actually admitting you're conservative?

Sure you're logged on to the correct website.

It's a shame you're family's Republicanism has rubbed off on you so dramatically.

:puke:

Read a few lines and left. That post would only be true is if one knew all republicans and had proof they tortured. That said, those of the opposition who cheered the idea of torture are scum. I've heard many republicans say publicly they are appalled. They may be the minority but they're out there. I've also heard some "liberal" apologists try to excuse torture. That is equally appalling to me.

There are good albeit misguided people out there. Some of them are Republicans.

Let's invite some mods in here to examine your thread:

1. Calling out another DUer, who is not here to defend himself (you link to Philosoraptor's name).
2. Linking to a locked thread to continue the debate, albeit based on a false premise.
3. Making a false accusation of another member of DU.

You could have started your own topic on the generalization of republicans without breaking the above rules. Next time try to use some common decency and etiquette.

if your gonna go after me thats fine. I think it was abhorent that someone from here would post a statement like that and even more so we would have even more people agree
as for your points here are my rebutals

1. i did not call anyone out, i called out the topic i did not mention the posts creator at all.

2. it was not locked when i posted this thread

3. what false accusations are you talking about?

as for misquoting philosoraptor here is his quote
"Let's face it, repubs are sexually turned on by torture."

so he's talking about people who get turned on by torture, that deviates from normal sexual behavior right?

and if you wanna talk about commen decency dont defend somoene who called some of my family members perverts and people who get turned on by torture. don't go after someone trying to get some commen sense in here.

Where did he call YOUR FAMILY members perverts? Where did he call "all republicans" perverts?

"1. i did not call anyone out, i called out the topic i did not mention the posts creator at all." - Lame. You linked directly to his OP. The first thing other posters would see is his name.

"2. it was not locked when i posted this thread" - Fine, then this thread should also be locked.

"3. what false accusations are you talking about?" - Don't act innocent. Where did he call YOUR FAMILY members perverts? Where did he call "all republicans" perverts?

"Let's face it, repubs are sexually turned on by torture."

he stated repubs and it was repeated through out, not some, not a couple he said repubs as a group.

i have some family members who are republicans. I am not the only one who took his comment this way, read the thread alot of people agree (both people who agree and disagree) that he was including all republicans. stop baiting if your gonna call a mod call a mod otherwise stop wasting my time with this crap. go make a pretty picture.

Your argument here is based on a Straw Man.

Whether you have family who are republicans is not the issue. Many in my family are republicans, so what? The issue is you made up something that was not true.

You are the one baiting. You called out another member of DU, lied about what he actually said, and now I am taking you to task for it.

if you look on this thread and the previous one you will see both phil and others defending that all repubs get off on torture. and if you want to be a grammer nazi then the word "repub" means he is referring to anyone that is a repub, i am not making a strawman as their are many conversations around this topic. so whatever take your beef elsewhere.

This is by definition a Straw Man.

I will not take my beef somewhere else. You made up something about a longtime DUer who has a lot of friends here and I want them to see this thread tomorrow. Philosoraptor did not say "all republicans" nor did he attack your family. This kind of slander will not get a pass.

If you want to defend the republican party, YOU go somewhere else. This is the DEMOCRATIC Underground and we are allowed to attack the republican party.

and I don't care if they are your family or friends - I F***ING HATE REPUKES

or has this always been the case?

I intend to keep bashing Republicans, because they are some despicable people.

Just awful.

Try to the hide thread button if you're so distraught about people, on a Democratic website, attacking Republicans.

Is Larry Craig still in office? Looks like they support their perverts more than they support democracy.