밫he Founders recognized that there were seeds of anarchy in the idea of individual freedom...

IndianaJones

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Sat Jan-05-08 02:10 AM
Original message

밫he Founders recognized that there were seeds of anarchy in the idea of individual freedom...

an intoxicating danger in the idea of equality, for if everybody is truly free, without the constraints of birth or rank and an inherited social order...how can we ever hope to form a society that coheres?�

Barack Obama

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Mythsaje

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Sat Jan-05-08 02:18 AM
Response to Original message

1. Now there's a disturbing quote...n/t

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Viva_La_Revolution

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Sat Jan-05-08 02:23 AM
Response to Reply #1

2. I had to read it twice. I agree.

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Mythsaje

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Sat Jan-05-08 02:31 AM
Response to Reply #2

5. Yeah, I had to read it twice too.

Don't like it.

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alcibiades_mystery

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Sat Jan-05-08 02:26 AM
Response to Original message

3. Context?

Please post the two paragraphs directly before and after that quotation.

Thank you.

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IndianaJones

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Sat Jan-05-08 02:29 AM
Response to Reply #3

4. Audacity of Hope p. 86-87. nt.

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alcibiades_mystery

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Sat Jan-05-08 02:34 AM
Response to Reply #4

7. I don't have the book

Edited on Sat Jan-05-08 02:35 AM by alcibiades_mystery

Please help out the community by posting that context. I'm sure you've read it, because no person with a scintilla of critical thought would post that quotation without knowing the context, and I know you are a sharp thinker. If you don't want to transcribe, just give us a summary in your own words.

I know you didn't find just this quotation on one of these blogs:

http://edstrong.blog-city.com/obama_rulingclass_lackey.htm

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2007/12/edwards_spox_asks_obama_to_sto.php (comment by Sandra Griffin)

http://www.bestcyrano.org/p.streetonObama2.2.07.htm

and simply repost it without knowing the context, because that would be just intellectually lazy and sad, and I know you're not like that. So give us a summary of the before and after so that we can judge for ourselves.

Thanks again! :hi:

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Renew Deal

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Sat Jan-05-08 02:37 AM
Response to Reply #7

8. And why is there a break between order and how?

What's in the middle where ... is?

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1awake

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Sat Jan-05-08 02:40 AM
Response to Reply #7

10. he may have the book,

I do not know, but that quote is all over the web, in that exact form.

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alcibiades_mystery

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Sat Jan-05-08 02:42 AM
Response to Reply #10

12. I've seen Indiana Jones on these boards for quite some time

And I simply cannot believe that a poster of his caliber would simply repost some out of context quotation from some other website. No. I refuse to believe it.

He very obviously read Mr. Obama's book in a fair and forthright way, and this particular quotation popped out at him, and he is alerting us to the book's content. He should easily be able to summarize the context of the quotation given his careful reading of those pages.

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Orangepeel

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Sat Jan-05-08 02:32 AM
Response to Original message

6. what's the next line?

please. I don't have the book.

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Nailzberg

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Sat Jan-05-08 02:38 AM
Response to Reply #6

9. But, if we told you the rest it would make sense.

We also understand that a declaration is not a government; a creed is not enough. The Founders recognized that there were seeds of anarchy in the idea of individual freedom, an intoxicating danger in the idea of equality, for if everyone is truly free, without the constraints of birth or rank or an inherited social order - if my notion of faith is no better or worse than yours, and my notions of truth and goodness and beauty are as true and good and beautiful as yours - then how can we ever hope to form a society that coheres? Enlightenment thinkers like Hobbes and Locke suggested that free men would form governments as a bargain to ensure that one man's freedom did not become another man's tyranny; that they would sacrifice individual license to better preserve their liberty. And building on this concept, political theorists writing before the American Revolution concluded that only a democracy could fulfill the need for both freedom and order - a form of government in which those who are governed grant their consent, and the laws constraining liberty are uniform, predictable, and transparent, applying equally to the rulers and the ruled. (pages 86-87)

He's talking about the founding of our democracy. I assume the OP was against that?

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tom_paine

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Sat Jan-05-08 02:41 AM
Response to Reply #9

11. I agree. This is out-of context flamebait. Tsk tsk tsk.

:thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: to the OP for a Bushie-type of "lie by omission".

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Tandalayo_Scheisskopf

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Sat Jan-05-08 02:47 AM
Response to Reply #11

14. I agree with you.

Out of context and selectively-edited.

For shame.

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Caretha

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Sat Jan-05-08 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #11

21. Yep - another hit & run thread

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Orangepeel

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Sat Jan-05-08 02:51 AM
Response to Reply #9

16. figured as much.

thanks!

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Oilwellian

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Sat Jan-05-08 02:53 AM
Response to Reply #9

17. Oh, and...

thanks for posting this. I found it very inspiring. :D

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Two Americas

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Sat Jan-05-08 03:02 AM
Response to Reply #9

18. more tricks with context...

"If everyone is truly free...how can we ever hope to form a society?"

"The constraints of birth or rank or an inherited social order...are my notions of truth and goodness and beauty."

"My notion of faith is...better...than yours."

Disturbing, isn't it???

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Mythsaje

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Sat Jan-05-08 03:43 AM
Response to Reply #9

19. Now, see, THAT quote makes some sense.

The original one? Not so much.

Thanks.

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Occam Bandage

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Sat Jan-05-08 02:46 AM
Response to Original message

13. Thank you for that out-of-context flamebait.

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Oilwellian

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Sat Jan-05-08 02:50 AM
Response to Original message

15. This is as low as it gets...

and an insult to our intelligence. You're really not doing Hillary any favors by posting this deceptive crap. On the other hand, I loved reading the entire paragraph from Obama's book and I'm now encouraged to go out and buy it and give him more thought.

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athena

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Sat Jan-05-08 06:47 AM
Response to Reply #15

20. It's a very good book.

I really liked his discussion of how the government works. The chapter on race was brilliant. You will not regret reading it.

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