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Echo In Light (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 10:05 AM Original message |
Education is Ignorance, By Noam Chomsky |
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Mr Rabble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 10:06 AM Response to Original message |
1. Thank you for posting this. |
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Echo In Light (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 10:09 AM Response to Reply #1 |
2. The obvious stuff is so deeply ingrained within the fabric of the culture |
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Echo In Light (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-07-08 08:34 AM Response to Reply #2 |
75. Link |
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NashVegas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 10:36 AM Response to Reply #1 |
12. I Get People Pissed Off At Me All The Time |
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Naturyl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 10:12 AM Response to Original message |
3. He's absolutely right |
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Echo In Light (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 10:18 AM Response to Reply #3 |
5. Thanky. Hadn't heard of this |
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CGowen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 10:55 AM Response to Reply #5 |
18. There is also one book written by a Department of Education member during Reagan's term |
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Mr Rabble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 10:34 AM Response to Reply #3 |
11. The Gatto book is essential reading. |
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Naturyl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 10:40 AM Response to Reply #11 |
14. We certainly agree on that |
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lostnfound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 01:46 PM Response to Reply #11 |
39. Chomsky & Gatto caused the biggest transformations in my thinking. |
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Mr Rabble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 02:21 PM Response to Reply #39 |
43. I would then recommend Parenti. |
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lostnfound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 03:41 PM Response to Reply #43 |
47. I read 'To Kill a Nation' and the Terrorism Trap. |
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Mr Rabble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 03:52 PM Response to Reply #47 |
48. Democracy for the Few is great. Perhaps the best |
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bemildred (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 10:14 AM Response to Original message |
4. It ain't the things you don't know that gits you, it's the things you know that ain't so. nt |
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90-percent (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 10:19 AM Response to Original message |
6. a song |
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NashVegas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 10:38 AM Response to Reply #6 |
13. The Godfathers |
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Naturyl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 10:58 AM Response to Reply #6 |
19. Well, since you were kind enough to mention it |
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Solly Mack (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 10:20 AM Response to Original message |
7. Thanks for posting this! |
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TahitiNut (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 10:22 AM Response to Original message |
8. Chomsky captures what was enormously uncomfortable for me in the academic "system." |
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Le Taz Hot (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-07-08 08:21 AM Response to Reply #8 |
74. Dang, TN! |
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conscious evolution (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 10:27 AM Response to Original message |
9. Compete Consume CONFORM Breed Be afraid |
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Tierra_y_Libertad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 10:33 AM Response to Original message |
10. H.L. Mencken summed it up nicely. |
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Echo In Light (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 10:48 AM Response to Reply #10 |
17. Herbet Marcuse, ONE-DIMENSIONAL MAN |
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MrMickeysMom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 10:43 AM Response to Original message |
15. This paragraph lays it out pretty well... |
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fenriswolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 10:46 AM Response to Original message |
16. I love noam chompsky |
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fascisthunter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 11:00 AM Response to Original message |
20. Absolutely....You See it Politics "Be Passive. Be Nice to the Other Side" |
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Solly Mack (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 11:07 AM Response to Reply #20 |
23. True |
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fascisthunter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 11:10 AM Response to Reply #23 |
24. And It's Usually Used by Those who Pretend to Share Your Plight |
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Echo In Light (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 11:26 AM Response to Reply #23 |
32. It's called "spectator democracy" i.e. phony democracy |
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Solly Mack (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 11:43 AM Response to Reply #32 |
33. phony, yes...I prefer calling it the illusion of democracy |
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Naturyl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-07-08 07:43 AM Response to Reply #23 |
60. That approach is usually sold by those in power |
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Solly Mack (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-07-08 08:02 AM Response to Reply #60 |
66. Yes...but then teachers have power...adults do |
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aikoaiko (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 11:01 AM Response to Original message |
21. And yet Chomsky is an intellectual elitist working for an elitist institution of mass education |
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Pavulon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 11:04 AM Response to Reply #21 |
22. Beat me to it.. |
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Echo In Light (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 11:23 AM Response to Reply #22 |
30. He's certainly not taking an absolute position against all forms and approaches to education |
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Echo In Light (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 11:16 AM Response to Reply #21 |
26. That's the heart of dissent: he fiercely criticizes the "intellectual" classes for their betrayal |
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Mr Rabble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 01:45 PM Response to Reply #21 |
38. Yeah, an elitist. Right. |
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aikoaiko (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 02:00 PM Response to Reply #38 |
42. Yes, I know he has misgivings, and yet he takes the paycheck from one of the biggest research tools |
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Naturyl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-07-08 07:46 AM Response to Reply #42 |
61. He has to eat |
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Echo In Light (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-07-08 07:59 AM Response to Reply #61 |
64. Sums up his semi-anarchistic approach too: support existing systems that DO help others |
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IDemo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 11:11 AM Response to Original message |
25. George Carlin sums it all up nicely. |
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Naturyl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 11:22 AM Response to Reply #25 |
28. Chomsky and Carlin are right, but... |
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hiphopnation (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-07-08 07:12 PM Response to Reply #25 |
84. god, thank you so much for that |
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WinkyDink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 11:18 AM Response to Original message |
27. That would more accurately be: "Education" is Ignorance. TRUE education is not. |
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flashl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 11:23 AM Response to Original message |
29. Excellent. drip. n/t |
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Joe Chi Minh (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 11:23 AM Response to Original message |
31. The truest intellectual is a young child. A toddler. He/she is fascinated |
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Naturyl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-07-08 07:52 AM Response to Reply #31 |
62. I think you might be exactly right about Mike Tyson. (n/t) |
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knitter4democracy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 11:55 AM Response to Original message |
34. Another reason why we shouldn't have gone with the Dewey system. |
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Marr (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 12:09 PM Response to Original message |
35. I think he's seriously overstating it, honestly. |
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Echo In Light (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 06:40 PM Response to Reply #35 |
52. He's been publicly "overstating" this for three decades |
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Didereaux (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 12:18 PM Response to Original message |
36. well if that is true then hillbillies must be loaded with geniuses. since they only get to the 4th |
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Mr Rabble (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 01:50 PM Response to Reply #36 |
40. I think you forgot the sarcasm smilie. |
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Didereaux (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 02:25 PM Response to Reply #40 |
45. no sarcasm, I meant every word. He does you know, occasionally make errors in logic. |
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Echo In Light (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 06:31 PM Response to Reply #36 |
50. "Latest pronouncement?" Are you serious? He was saying this back in the 60s too |
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personman (959 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-07-08 01:00 AM Response to Reply #36 |
57. ... |
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Naturyl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-07-08 07:55 AM Response to Reply #36 |
63. So "average" kids are capable of nothing? |
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Echo In Light (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-07-08 08:08 AM Response to Reply #63 |
68. Which is the corner stone of "fashionable consumption," including the college racket for many |
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Naturyl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-07-08 08:46 AM Response to Reply #68 |
77. Yeah, don't even get me started |
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nannah (690 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 12:30 PM Response to Original message |
37. as someone who spent time in the hall and saw the principle more often |
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Naturyl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-07-08 08:01 AM Response to Reply #37 |
65. One year, I had my own desk in the principal's office |
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Echo In Light (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-07-08 08:58 AM Response to Reply #65 |
78. I spent time in Catholic schools... |
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Naturyl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-07-08 09:15 AM Response to Reply #78 |
79. I mostly just refused to participate |
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Mr_Monday (220 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 02:00 PM Response to Original message |
41. First |
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kentuck (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 02:23 PM Response to Original message |
44. I have read that before... |
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ulysses (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 02:35 PM Response to Original message |
46. oh good, this again. |
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Echo In Light (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 06:33 PM Response to Reply #46 |
51. Yes, his point exactly. all he's saying is the education system is part of the indoctrination system |
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ulysses (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 07:09 PM Response to Reply #51 |
53. no. |
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Echo In Light (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-07-08 07:37 AM Response to Reply #53 |
58. Kindergarten, then 12 yrs, then college. A "small" part? Me thinks the "we" you represent is biased |
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raccoon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-07-08 09:24 AM Response to Reply #58 |
80. Part of the purpose of the educational system in any state is indoctrination. |
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Naturyl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-07-08 08:06 AM Response to Reply #46 |
67. That's precisely his point (and Gatto's as well). |
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Breeze54 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 04:12 PM Response to Original message |
49. Proud to say I got in trouble early on in school! |
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otherlander (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 07:19 PM Response to Original message |
54. Chomsky is like Illich |
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Orwellian_Ghost (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 10:04 PM Response to Reply #54 |
55. What a great thread |
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otherlander (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jan-06-08 11:37 PM Response to Reply #55 |
56. You probably know more about him than I do. |
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Naturyl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-07-08 08:18 AM Response to Reply #56 |
72. Aww... Here's a response. |
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otherlander (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-07-08 07:06 PM Response to Reply #72 |
83. Okay. |
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Echo In Light (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-07-08 07:39 AM Response to Reply #55 |
59. Don't forget Herbert Marcuse. I sourced him earlier w/link |
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Swamp Rat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-07-08 08:11 AM Response to Original message |
69. Chomsky is right but he does not go far enough. |
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Echo In Light (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-07-08 08:14 AM Response to Reply #69 |
70. LOL...like Carlin saying your birth certificate is proof of guilt |
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Swamp Rat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-07-08 08:16 AM Response to Reply #70 |
71. Thanks for this thread. |
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Naturyl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-07-08 08:19 AM Response to Reply #69 |
73. Absolutely right, of course. |
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Echo In Light (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-07-08 08:36 AM Response to Original message |
76. Brief, informative overview of Chomsky's views/video |
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NuttyFluffers (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-07-08 09:46 AM Response to Original message |
81. quite the salient point. far too often we forget we are within 'the system'. |
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leveymg (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jan-07-08 10:25 AM Response to Reply #81 |
82. Every couple of decades, there's a "quiet revolution" which prevent the |
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