Oh please America

Not Obama. Don't throw away your chances on such a vague thing as "hope". (Good God, get real!)
You need to go after the corporations big time. America is in trouble and needs big reforms. Nader is right about Edwards. Save Obama for a future date after you have cleaned up all the corruption.

I can't believe all the hype about Obama just cuz he's half black. He's not the second coming. Be realistic.

For all the reasons you list, and more.

And from a fricking Canuck. What's that all aboot!

:popcorn:

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who won't win?..and why? Are you talking about Dennis Kucinich?

I like Edwards and Obama..but the more people try to eviscerate Obama, the more I feel the need to defend his candidacy...which actually works to give Obama more credence...I guess because the attacks tend to be racially motivated. Funny.

we will need to win. PERIOD. At least Obama has that strength.

Indeed, the way Bush kept saying Kerry flip-flopped, Hillary has already shown - loud and clear - she's the undisputed Master (oops, Mistress) of flip-floppin'.

the honneymoon factor. He is clearly a fad candidate. He is rolling with that because it is working. But in the process he isn't doing anything to built a campaign of substance. Shat does he stand for besides "hope"? I know he is a smart guy and he will be able to articulate a more specific message later. However, that will be without benefit of the honeymoon enthusiasm.

Americans change fashions very quickly. Will they still be in an Obama mood 10 months from now?

and join the cult.

Saint Johny Reid? No thank you.

Isn't there some Republican you're supposed to be snuggling with? It's all about UNITY after all.

this kind of horse shit gets two rec's?...is there an invasion going on or what?

Been seeing quite a few flushings lately.

rise if she wins. She wants to run on Bill record and will have to accept whatever happened under that administration. This will be their Swiftboat attack on her.

I'll take my chances with Obama, thanks.

they will swiftboat all of them and by the time they are finished they will have Hillary as a shrill, bitch who should have thrown her husband to the curb and Osama - oh I'm sorry I meant Obama as a muslim madrases educated freaking BLACK terrorist.

I don't think either Hillary or Obama can win especially if the candidate is McCain....

I think the swiftboating will be less bad for Edwards although they will turn him into an evil $400 haircut mansion living pretty boy....but I don't think that is as hard to take as a shrill bitch or a scary black terrorist....

It is going to be SO UGLY...

Obama is young, this country is truly FUCKED up - right now we need someone who is going to fight not someone who is going to make nice....look at how Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid have tried to make nice in the Congress - it does not work. We need more than rhetoric about hope and change - we need some big fat kick ass.

After John Edwards has us back on the right path Obama can run again....it is not the right time.

Don't like it? Don't vote for him.

Thanks for doing the heavy lifting, as usual. :eyes:

How convincing. I guess it must be true.... :rofl:

I guess I better just forget about Edwards now...

:eyes:

I like Obama a lot, and will support him 100%. But if I were a person on the street and was approached by someone like her, I would definitely think about not supporting that person's candidate.

:Gotta hand it to ya. You may pick the wrong candidate, but at least you never break character. :crazy:

:thumbsup:

Our form of government is in great peril. The oligarchs may be unstoppable. Singing Kumbayah is not the answer right now. But you completely destroyed any credibility you might have had in making the point.

On one hand, people say what huge progress it would be to have a black man elected President. In that statement, you are talking about race.

In an enlightened society, race/gender wouldn't be an issue, we would focus on what the person is saying & their past actions. The race card is a real factor. It will be a double edged sword. On one side, it will be a detriment, bringing out people specifically voting against him because of his color. On the other (& yes, this is true, whether you like it or not), there will be people who will vote for him BECAUSE of his color and the fact that they think electing him President will equal progress just for that fact alone. BOTH are racist actions, if the deciding vote falls on his race. The same with electing a woman. There will be woman who vote for Hilliary because she is a woman, & there are those who feel she should get the vote because it is time to have a woman President.

It is racist/sexist to observe these facts. The reason America has such a hard time transcending this issue is that we won't honestly acknowledge the reality around them.

i know it is a factor - just ask Harold Ford

the dismissive comment that race is all that his supporters are looking at, though exposes the OP in my mind as one who also is looking only at that from the other perspective. Blows the rest of the argument off the page. Stupid way to undo an otherwise legitimate argument.

"I can't believe all the hype about Obama just cuz he's half black. He's not the second coming. Be realistic."

THAT'S what Iris said. She made NO REFERENCE to his supporters. Your interpretation is an extrapolation. She's correct about the hype:

Pigbpoy: Halafrican
Tweety: (paraphrasing) He doesn't have the "cooties" most blacks in this country have.

YES, there's been a lot of hype that's ALREADY turning fugly ugly. And NO, Obama is NOT the Second Coming. (Except mebbe für die Ubermenschen :evilgrin: )

on the race factor, the more pronounced it will be. If people left it alone, it would still be there, but it would not be as much of a decisive factor. Using racist rhetoric as a means to sway opinion, compels me to support Obama. I don't know if that is right, or wrong..but it is.

in Canada racism exists most certainly but it is easier to discuss race without causing offense. Please tell me how I should address the fact that I don't think now is the time for America to prove it can elect a "black" president.

If you cannot comprehend that, then no one can explain it to you

I agree with your point. I think it would be the dems shooting themselves in the foot. I keep picturing Dukakis in the tank, the swiftboaters, Harold Ford...
That is reality.

Your use of the expression "just because he is..." was a broadside at all his supporters, saying that is ALL that motivates them, and was offensive. And that is coming from someone who finds many of them to be offensive and agrees with your underlying point.

Falling back on some sort of more enlightened viewpoint among Canadians does not do you any favors either, IMO. When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.

I think those who support Obama are romantic, idealistic and carried away by emotion. Being black has plenty to do with it. His youth also. He has the glamour of a JFK but I think "Camelot" was an illusion. (Sorry.)I don't think this is the right time for Obama.

Maybe Edwards would NOT clean up the corporations. But he is more likely to do so.

As for Canada with respect to blacks we do NOT have the same history and bad as it may be here it is more comfortable to discuss it than it is south of the border. History does matter. Your black slaves escaped to Canada and were given refuge. And not only that slavers who ventured into Canada to try to retrieve runaways got rough treatment here. Read I'VE GOT A HOME IN GLORYLAND to see how Canada treated blacks while you defended slavery and refused to recognize blacks as your equals until the 60s.

Yes we are racist here too and hypocritical but believe me we can discuss things without so many explosions.

You just had to keep digging, didn't you?

shut up and go away

"you defended slavery and refused to recognize blacks as your equals"

There are a handful of white Americans who did not do that.

I'm grovelling and apologize abjectly but I'll bet you are white.

Some countries have behaved better that yours. Sorry that's a fact. And it does matter. It matters till the end of time.

I'm proud of the way my country sheltered escaped slaves and that is an important part of our history. Only one of many reasons why I prefer to live here.

why don't you just enjoy it there in your superior country and keep your bigoted comments to yourself?

Lass die Frau in rühe, bitte. You're SO PRIMED to jump down her throat, you've run past her communication intent.

She's from Ontario, from a generation that preceded yours by 2, I would guess. PLEASE HOLD YOUR FIRE for a moment.

I am a white male 60-year old American who has fought for civil rights. My ancestors operated a station on the Underground Railroad helping escaped slaves make their way to Canada. I resent the suggestion that all Obama supporters are such only "because he is half black." It demeans his supporters, of whom I am not one. It is further insulting to suggest that Canada is superior to the US because of the sad history of slavery and Jim Crow in the US.

OK. :eyes:

of one looking at the US from a distance. More likely to see the Big Picture. You will be excoriated here because of the Ami "hot buttons" that will obsure the ability of many to hear what you're ATTEMPTING TO COMMUNICATE. I offer myself to you as a Dolmetscherin that my fellow Amis understand you and perhaps refrain from attacking you for speaking up. :pals:

I've seen your posts before and agreed so heartily, but I thought I would respond this time. I am frankly afraid that an Obama presidency would descend into a a Carter presidency, because his advisors wouldn't be able to pull him into a reality situation, as I saw Carter's people not doing. The Republicans smelled it in the water and attacked and Carter really had a failed administration. I just don't want to see this happen again, with all of these high hopes.

I will vote for John Edwards on Super Tuesday. His final argument in the NH debate last night was a real "closer" for me. He was "on" and "in the moment"and what he said lifted me up!

I'm fucking sick to death of hearing the phrase "the corporations" thrown around without any specifics. Name me some corporations, the bad things they've done, and what tangible things will be done to correct it, and maybe then I'll listen. Until then, it's only so much ranting.

If the world is being helped by globalization, why are Americans - from those with Masters degrees down to$30k/yr graphic designer jobs losing their jobs? Globalization suggests expansion; what is happening is migration.

And some companies, vehemently against piracy, are using bizarre methods to thwart it - such as selling products at extremely unfair prices in the places most guilty of the crime -- this sends a message to everybody. (Many will still rightly play fair, but the double standard is WRONG.)

The the world was flat, as globalists claim, the wages being offered would match the costs of living -- that is how China pulled 1/3rd its population, so far, out of poverty and very few H1Bs feel they are being coerced at gunpoint to learn any number of IT jobs (from phone support to database programming to application design to operating system building).

There's a lot of good corporations have done. However, what's going on in the case of globalization is a inciting questions.

problems created by globalization.

"Going after the corporations" lacks specifics and doesn't answer the question.

Tax disincentives for taking OUR FREAKING JOBS offshore
tarrifs on their products made overseas by slave labor so it will cost them as much here to produce as over there
tax incentives for creating jobs in the good old USA
strengthing unions
taxing through the roof the ungodly CEO compensation



oh and did you know that the European Union will not accept the shit from China with lead in it they passed a law concerning it so there are actually two sources of Chinese production - one without the lead for Europe and I guess the one with the lead for us - IT IS SICKENING... I don't have the exact specifics of it but it is something like that - in other words folks in Europe are protecting their people we are not....

Are we really left jobless? Just because some jobs begin to exist in another country doesn't mean we don't have jobs either. I just don't see this massive middle class sinking going on for it, and they couldn't offshore the factories if we weren't still going to be able to buy the junk. Same with the call centers in India - we're still buying the computers, or those call centers couldn't exist.

Let's be real and not hand the right wing on a platter something they can make us look foolish with. There must be another job. And it's not at McDonald's. How many middle class people do you know that honestly had to sell their house and now can't afford computers because they are now working at McDonald's?

And we can't claim any job is "ours" any more than we can sit and refuse to work at a job here because it "belongs" to someone overseas, the proprietor being from abroad.

And ironically would it be OK if your boss laid you off to give your job to another American? Say, his brother in law? Are they "our" jobs in the sense that we can't ever be fired or laid off? (Or if we employ someone, we have no right thereafter to make any changes - and then what happens if the business fails?)

Capitalism has its evils, and so we don't need to make them up. We sound pompous and whiny and self-centered insisting only Americans are entitled to any economic progress. Let the Indians make some $$ and they can now afford to buy stuff we're selling. Why are we so against the Indians and the Chinese making any progress and insisting we are the victims of people poorer than we?

"How many middle class people do you know that honestly had to sell their house and now can't afford computers because they are now working at McDonald's?"

How many working class people can afford a house? Nevermind, you've never heard of us. We rent mostly.

"Capitalism has its evils, and so we don't need to make them up."

We don't need people ignoring them either as you do. People are suffering in the US. You don't see it yet. Bully for you. If you work for a living you will see it soon. If you don't you will never see it.

Al From? Is that you?

how about some good old fashion trust-busting? politicians that will advocate for stopping the further concentration of wealth and endless mergers.

Tax disincentives for taking OUR FREAKING JOBS offshore

While I agree in principle, this is a thorny issue. First of all, many people are against giving any more money to large companies than we're giving them already. Second, a lot of these large companies are barely even paying taxes to begin with, offshoring or no. There's a bigger problem here that needs to be resolved before we can begin tweaking the tax code for things like this.

tax incentives for creating jobs in the good old USA

On a local level and with small businesses this works. However, I don't think the larger companies (which I suspect are the ones we're talking about) give a damn about anything other than the bottom line. And their competitors' bottom line. Unless you're suggesting the US compete with China on manufacturing (and enjoy the resulting Chinese standard of living) I don't see how this helps with the big companies off-shoring jobs.

strengthing unions

Makes sense for sectors of the economy that are already unionized, but doesn't for those that aren't, and don't want to be.

but you can start here...
http://rightweb.irc-online.org/groupwatch/cpd.php
http://www.corpwatch.org/
http://www.opensecrets.org/index.asp

United Fruit Company
WR Grace
Koch Industries
Exxon/Mobil...etal
Halliburton, KBR, Dresser, Bechtel...etc

Where do I start? We owe the war in Iraq to big oil. We owe global warming to big oil. All over the world big oil is harming third world countries. The Pharmaceuticals who will move heaven and earth to prevent health reform and universal health care and fair prices for drugs. They have corrupted the FDA. Even the Democratic candidates are owned by the corporate sponsors and are not responsive to the will of the people.

And you don't have a free press you have total corporate mainstream so that the truth doesn't get out. More propaganda than news.

Surely your question is a joke. The corporations rule America.

Aside from begin pissed off?

But the power is with the people. Power is always with people; they just forget it and have to be reminded.
There is a stirring in this country. It is on the right and it is on the left and it is in the middle. A shift is
happening. Right now it is a distant rumble, but it is coming. Obama is an aspect of that shift.

The people of our country want to be empowered. They want to be awakened if someone will show them the way.
Just watch. When we think like you are, we are living out of our past fears, our traumas. Our only choice
then is to huddle together like scared little powerless children.

This is the time to move. This is time to take the risk. Otherwise, I fear we are lost.

Strange position to take on a progressive Democratic board. But if you need a primer:

1. In general: The political system is broken because lobbying firms representing narrow corporate interests pay campaign contributions to politicians, which in turn means that narrow economic interests rather than broad public interests are served by federal legislation. Poli Sci 101 should have told you that legislation is easy to pass when the benefits are given to narrow interests and the costs are distributed broadly. That is now how our system works -- as a bribery and looting machine.

2. Health: Health insurance companies take in ever increasing premiums and refuse an ever wider range of medical procedures, keeping an inordinate amount of the difference for executive compensation. Congress and state legislators cannot regulate them to behave responsibly because of issue 1. Please get thee to a video store and purchase the dvd of "Sicko" as soon as possible.

3. Energy: Oil companies lobbied for a received massive subsidies through tax incentives during the very years when they earned the largest revenues and income every received by corporations in world history. Meanwhile they fund phoney science to obfuscate global warming, which if not addressed, will cause incalculable environmental damage and human misery.

4. Arms manufacturing: Arms manufacturers continue to distort public policy by lobbying for expensive weapons systems while basic troop equipment requirements for actual forseeable threats and operations go unmet.

I could go on and on -- in sectors like agribusiness (gm food, food dumping in developing countries, promoting unhealthy but cheap profitable commodities like high fructose corn syrup and transfats), auto manufacturing (fuel efficiency; global warming), services (outsourcing high skilled employment), fast food (literally poisonous foods viz "Supersize Me"), electrical power generation (lobbying to weaken environmental pollution mitigation).

Ever since Teddy Roosevelt, it has been a progressive truism that corporations need to be regulated in the public interest. Amazing that this historical and political fact escapes you.

Rather than go on and on instead I would just suggest you read the newspaper on a regular basis.

Which is why I posed a tangible, specific question: Name a specific corporation that has done a specific wrong (though not necessarily something illegal, I might add) and propose a remedy.

Your post makes many references to lobbying, which I agree is a big problem. But it's not the problem we're discussing in this thread.

Corporations organize themselves in various ways -- as individual corporations seeking favor and as industry groups.

It was not necessary for the OPer to make reference to specific corporations. Everyone on the progressive side is well aware of the "corporation" problem.

how bout the Warner Act?

Enforcing both will do much to correct the problems with monopolies

unbelieveable. Climb back under your rock.

If you are THAT naive, why should anyone listen to YOU?

All things being pretty much the same among the top three candidates as far as their voting records go, what makes you think Edwards would be more willing to go after the corporations than Obama?

I know he is saying that, and I suspect it might be so, however, I'd like to know how you came up with your reasons.

The steady growth of the oligarchs since the mid-fifties and concurrent "war on the middle class" is to many the key issue of our time, equally as threatening as islamist terrorism, perhaps more. Because it WILL destroy our form of government, may well have already. Ike warned about it but no effort was made to heed; to the contrary, Nixon started privatization of healthcare and added another major component to the evil empire of industries with strangleholds on our society. When Reagan got in office they accelerated systematic dismantling all regulation of their activities, and union-busting with the ATC firings. Most politicians are in their pocket.

Edwards recognizes that and has declared war on them. Obama keeps mum. So why would one expect him to emerge as just as great a battler against them?

and shove it with the multi-ethnic remark "half black". (Trust me, I'm biting my tongue so hard, I'll need a blood transfusion to make up what I've lost in curtailing my anger toward your filthy comment.)

America is not known for its critical thinking. It seems they can't make the leap from the corporations appointing a Republican front puppet to switching knees to a Democrat puppet. It is so obvious. And, so perfect. With the cover of the D after his name, & his mixed race heritage, why he is the perfect candidate for change without any change! And, America will feel ever so much better about it.

VOTE EDWARDS.

Too bad for you. I see Edwards as insincere. No walk. All talk. And your paucity of critical thinking is illuminated by your stock Counterpunch style rhetoric. talk about kool-aid drinking.

Vote Obama. Vote for someone who's actually made a difference without doing it to build a fortune.

at one point bush had a 90% approval rating and "America" very much loves garbage like American Idol and Survivor

looks good but watch it!

person's thoughts on the subject? They are entitled. All we have to do is wait for the media--pundits, announcers, "journalists", "The best political team on television", to tell us what is going on. They will tell us who our nominee will be. All this is from Brainwashing 101. I listen to the candidates and make up my own mind. It is no longer about an election. It is which media person can spout garbage and hope we will believe it. We are so lucky to have really good and intelligent people running for office on the Democratic side.

Anyone is better than what the rep have. But, My support goes to Edwards. I think he can win. I believe he will make a great president. But I will support whoever is the democratic nominee. I do believe Obama lacks the experience. I also believe that Hilary would make a good president. We have good choices.

He served in the Illinois leg for 7 years, and he's been in the U.S Senate for 3. In addition he spent 10 years teaching Con law at U of Chicago and 7 years as a community organizer and legal advocate for the disenfranchised. Compare that to Edward's 6 years in the Senate and his career as a trial lawyer. Fuck, Edwards didn't even bother voting for years as an adult and can't remember if he ever voted for a repuke as president.

I am not saying either of them can or cannot do the job. But the "experience" quoted for both hardly sounds like actual qualifications to be the leader of the free world, arguably the most powerful person in the world. It is just babble to attempt to sell anyone on that as being the qualification. Face it - the only one left running on either side with a resume that would suggest "gee, sounds like a candidate for the top job" is Richardson, and I think he'd be disastrous. "Experience" means jack shit with Biden and Dodd gone so let's just table the arguments over it.

No offense intended. The point I meant to make is that were he not partly black he wouldn't be such a strong candidate. And I don't think that should be the issue any more than Hillary's gender. Would Oprah have endorsed him for his platform?

Hey, I like him but I just don't think you need him now.

Oh for Gawds sakes.


Go wash your sheets.

some of you get riled real easy!

You have no fucking way of knowing whether he'd be as strong a candidate were he Asian American or Greek American or Jewish American or Irish American or.....

First, people say he can't possible win because he's black. Now other people think he wouldn't be in a position to win if he wasnt??

I know I'm new here.. what am I missing?

:rofl:

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and I am not one. Absolutely no way.

It amazes me how quickly SOME Americans resort to fury on so many hot topics. How many hot topics you have.

I guess we don't speak the same language where race is concerned. Maybe you need to lighten up a bit on the subject. Watch Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert to see what a mine-field the question of race has become. It is almost taboo to discuss the issue, I can see, without causing offense.

I didn't mean to cause offense.

to one grew up Black AND FEMALE in White America. The boys attacking you haven't taken the time to LISTEN. It's one of those male/white ACCULTURATED PRIVILEGE thangs. You needn't apologize, dearest Iris. I got your back.

For god's sake there are enough racists in the world and they are not shy about it so give me a break when I say I am not.

I cannot make my way through America's ever-changing and finely nuanced discussions about race without putting my foot in it. Don't try to drum up more racists than there are.

Creeps like Rush Limbaugh and Ann What's-Her-Face would never get exposure in Canada. We just wouldn't tolerate them. To compare me to Limbaugh is absurd!

No wonder race gets laughs on Colbert and and Jon Stewart.

Truce, please.

with a response. Those attacking you have distorted concepts of what racism really is and have simply chosen NOT to understand what you wrote. Happens ALL the time in these parts. ;-)

... or, come to think of it, EVER.

How 'bout you start telling Americans how to run their country AFTER you straighten out your own?

"The point I meant to make is that were he not partly black he wouldn't be such a strong candidate."

Yuppers, that's the ticket. Think of how poorly Obama would be doing if he wasn't partly black, but merely an octaroon.

Have fun with your thread. :eyes:

You DO realize that if you are half African American and half Caucasian, in the eyes of America you are BLACK, do you not? Because you are "different".

I don't think anyone has publicly made a big distinction of people being "half" or "quarter" anything since the post Reconstruction South, until Rush Limbaugh made a big deal out of his oh so clever Halfrican joke.

:eyes:

misses what's going on here, and makes a repugnant comment about race. BTW, it's been Edwards supporters who have been most vocal with the stupid meme that Obama isn't electable because he's black. And it's clueless of you to label him as half black. Lots of people of mixed background identify as black; Obama is one of them. Hey, how about his little girls? Are they 3/4 black? Ugh.

so why don't you stop already?

.... but I guess all of Canada isn't Toronto, unfortunately.

We have a guy that talks well, with nothing to back it up as a Democratic front runner
And a guy who says women should "submit gracefully" and who does not believe in Evolution as the republican front runner.

What the hell are we doing?

blows. LOL

i'm leaning towards him :shrug:

They hear Obama and of course he's impressive. But he's got to have some substance to go along with all that philosophical sophistry. And he has to make a commitment to fight the corrupt special interests who have stolen our government from us-- but I'm not hearing it. I hear only pretty, idealistic talk about bringing people together.

Meanwhile, it's Edwards that is driving the debate with concrete and meaningful plans for turning this country around.

....in a surge of support for Obama. It is a great day indeed when a black man can not only compete for high office in this nation, but actually have a chance of winning it all.

But color is NOT the issue here. It is who can do the best job standing up for the American people.

around him as advisors rather than those he has I might believe him. Let's "bring people together" in S.C. with a lyin' "Ex-Gay"
prima donna!!!

We're waiting to hear why he denied that, but his campaign won't respond. Apparently, it's inconvenient??

:eyes:

He's just an ego driven poseur who will say whatever he believes will win him the Presidency.

I live in Florida and I feel so HELPLESS! Symbolman has a plan, we need to SUPPORT his efforts and find a WAY to get his plan up and running!!

I think the thing that bothers me most about your post is the clear implication that Obama is not quite up to the challenge of cleaning up corruption.

My guess is that Obama would do just fine in cleaning up the corruption in Washington and in the rest of the country.

Besides, we have told Black people that "now is not the time. Just wait until the time is right" for way too long.

Obama is the guy liberals think people think they want to be friends with.

It's so messed up. America, this is about picking someone to do a job -- and in case you haven't noticed, job #1 is to stop these corporate vampires from sucking your blood.

You need a fighter instead of a charmer if you want to do this.

You need policies, not just hope.

You need Edwards.

And by the way, although Edwards is a fighter, you might want to notice that he's figured out how to avoid all those accusations about "class warfare" and "divisiveness" they used to throw at him four years ago. I guess he learned that lesson well. Now when he talks getting the corporations off our backs, it's still a "unity" thing -- all of us pulling together to help all of us. For a fighter, he's actually pretty damn charming too.

tobacco use, he's a smoker. We dont want a smoker or even a recently "ex" smoker (yeah right!) in the white house serving as a role model for the nations children.

you would think he walks on water.

He gave a helluva closer in New Hampshire last night!

Excuse me for saying this, but if I had to have a lawyer in my corner, I think I'd rather have a trial lawyer who fought the big guys and won! How about you?

people who shout racist every time someone points out the reality of Obama's being a young and inexperienced sheep being led to slaughter in an overwhelmingly racist AmeriKKKa, despite his intelligence and honor. :eyes:

There weren't any "half-black" water fountains in Selma, ok?

--> "Not Obama. Don't throw away your chances on such a vague thing as "hope". (Good God, get real!)
Obama is the best we have right now, why wait for ten years to pass when we can have the best N-O-W!

(Good God, get real!) you sound sooo Britney Spears...

Giant blue font and all. :)

I'm an American who has lived in Canada for the last thirty-three years. And I still consider myself to be a silent guest in this country, even though its politics affect me personally.

I wouldn't deign to tell a Canadian who to vote for in their own elections, nor would I take it upon myself to tell a Canadian what is in the best interest of their country.

But that's just me. Apparently you somehow know what Americans should do in their own country, based on your expertise as - as exactly what?

"I can't believe all the hype about Obama just cuz he's half black." You're kiddin', right?

If you think the 'hype' about Obama is because he's half-black, you really don't know what you're talking about - but then you already proved that in your OP, didn't you?

I feel compelled to reply to your post and to explain WHY I have so vehemently defended her on this thread. Frankly, this thread is Exhibit A in revealing an inability of Americans, ESPECIALLY wrt "hot button" issues, to s-l-o-w down and examine context. Xultar's hot thread is another example.

I read the OP and saw the flag. It didn't hit my reflexes because I was more curious about what the poster wanted to communicate. I checked the profile, discovered I was reading the musings of a 67 yr-old woman from my beloved Ontario, whose town doesn't rate a mention on my pocket Hammond Atlas. So I contacted her, telling her something about myself and asking about her.

I spent my teenage summers a bit west of her near the Georgian Bay. Those were the best of times...
I was the first black person many at our Arts/Sport camp had ever seen. Learned to water ski and explored the surrounding terrain with the boyz, looking for a good pair of mucklucks. Met my polar opposite Canadian "twin" there, with whom I've remained in contact over nearly a half-century. Hung out in T.O. on holidays. $15 student fare on Air Canada.

I found the Canadians I met somewhat provincial but NOT AT ALL racist in the American sense. It's ALL a matter of context.

"I wouldn't deign to tell a Canadian who to vote for in their own elections, nor would I take it upon myself to tell a Canadian what is in the best interest of their country."

I live (quite happily) on the other side of the Big Pond which has required that I master a VERY DIFFICULT language. I have been solicited as a non-citizen to VOTE in special referendums when our politicians have wanted to get more info and felt it was appropriate to ASK. I have NO PROBLEM expressing opinions on the politics here as my friends KNOW I have waded through hell and high-water to grasp the issues.

What happens in America affects the entire world profoundly. It's been interesting hearing opinions on Obama in these parts.
"He's a lamb being led to the slaughter."
Me:"Why do you think that?"
"NOLA. The Amis are just trying to purge their guilt. He has NO CHANCE."

When they say "no chance" they are NOT speaking of election. I then hear a lot about Kofi Annan.

Nance, I have GREAT RESPECT for you, :loveya: but I have to question if your "American exceptionalism" template took over in the moment you posted. HOW DARE THIS near-septugenarian Canuck voice her concerns! However ineptly... I heard her heart. Half-black? After 33 years in Canada, you MUST KNOW that it's NOT a one-drop rule there. And as far as the hype in Ami-land, see Tweety's quote. I believe in my heart THAT was what Iris was attempting to address.

...over the word of Dennis Kucinich.

NEVER.

I'm going with Edwards.

He's coming across more likable to the general population than either Hillary or Edwards are. Whether he maintains that or not, we'll see.

I do think that this election is primarily about likability over everything else. That doesn't say a lot for the general population, other than people are sick of
slick politicians who don't seem to care about people. I think Obama appeals because he's so new to this. He's not a seasoned (for good or for bad) politician, like
Hillary and John are.

the corporations of all the frontrunners? I agree this is very important.

If he was white, you'd be all for him. Racist.