Ok Class... Compare And Contrast These Two Statements !!!

"Some men see things as they are and say, 'Why'?
I dream of things that never were and say, 'Why not'?" - Robert F. Kennedy - March 18, 1968

"We don't need to be raising the false hopes of our country about what can be delievered." - Hillary Clinton - January 5, 2008

Discuss.

:shrug:

She can't win.

Those statements speak for themselves.

Fucking tragic. :grr:

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/TahitiNut/448

:hug:

I'm trying to hang on to the hope that I can change it in November.
I think I can if Edwards wins, I might be able to if Obama wins...

I thought that statement of hers was pretty dumb. It is no surprise she has some downward momentum now.

However, like Obama and Edwards I believe there are some things that can be changed if Americans want it badly enought and are willing to make some sacrifice to get there.

that statement shocked me by the way... I thought to myself, she ain't a draemer

You may be a bad influence on me, TN !!!

:evilgrin::hi::evilgrin:

Gawd ... I luv ya, cousin! :pals: :hi:

In fact, in many respects she's not a democrat at all.

complete and utter nonsense.

that's just bullshit.

Just curious.

I have no clue --but to say that Hillary isn't a Democrat?

Then please tell me that I'm not a Democrat as well.

I did google it to verify but come up with no info. I do recall someone posting an article that said she gave nothing, as compared to very generous contributions from people like Kerry and Obama. That was the last straw for me.

If that's true, then that is definitely one respect in which she is no democrat.

Isn't that something that concerns you?

apart from the 2 million she donated from her own campaign --she helped raise 18 million for individual candidates and party commitees in the 2006 cycle.


http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/07/nyregion/07hillary.html

Hillary is offering us more of the same.

One thing I would like to know is if anyone in America likes things the way are, other than those who can afford to wall themselves in and pay through the nose for the services they need.

HRC's speaks for itself and differently to each voter.

Enough Bush/Clinton.

Though I can agree with both, depending on what is being discussed.

The skeptics could have a field day with Kennedy's statement and Hillary could be talking about having bush sent to the Hague.

I imagine her response in 2012 to the question "Why didn't you accomplish the change you touted in 2008?" would look a lot like that quote.

It admits defeat before any action can be initiated. How sad.

that getting out of Iraq is a false hope?
That having health care for everyone is a false hope?
That having social security be there for the boomers is a false hope?
That America's stature overseas can be restored is a false hope?
That return of habeas corpus is a false hope?
That those that order and commit torture be brought to justice is a false hope?
That those that lied to start this war be punished is a false hope?
That dignity and honor be restored to the White House is a false hope?
That freedom from illegal wiretaps is a false hope?

Just what the hell are these "false hopes" that she is talking about?

... and therefore, about HOPE.

:shrug:

if you vote for her....not much will change.

Lets start 2009 with LOW expectations.



"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."---Paul Wellstone

When you're facing two candidates who are motivating people by letting them dare to hope for a better future. The best rebuttal isn't to simply squash those hopes with a quick quip, but to show why you believe the others are giving false hopes.

The first quotation enshrines much of the innocence of America that percolated throughout the time-frame i.e. "I have a dream!!", "I dream of things that never were...", "I've seen the promised land!", etc...and rightly so as the dreams of human beings are important, sadly however, others consider themselves human beings as well, even if they are only marginally so, and actively seek to thwart the dreams of others by playing on those images that usurp these noble dreamscapes...once again i.e.

"Peace with honor", "It's morning in America again.", "A thousand points of light", "NAFTA", "I'm a uniter not a divider", "Cheaper gas by next Tuesday!", "Chevy...like a rock!"

I think that the little fingers of any one of our candidates is worth leagues more than the whole lot of repugs put together.

So it saddens me to see one, two, or three of them playing those same tired old poll/focus group driven buzz word games ('change', '(forces of the) status quo') just hammering, hammering, hammering away as though there will be no response.

I think that in her statement/quotation, 2008, 40 years after the first one; Clinton offered that response to 'the buzz word parade'. Does she participate in 'the buzz word parade'? Sure. Do, Edwards & Obama? You better believe they do. And maybe there's too much of it from all, each and every side. Likely no doubt.

Does Clinton have a unique relationship to having her dreams & hopes dashed, even the false hopes? Maybe only unique insofar as she has been affected as such. But I do think she possesses the intellectual capacity to understand the downsides of as such false hopes.

Is she a monster for having voiced such thoughts? No, not in my opinion.

she should have known better than to say THAT.

True that if politicians were to all of a sudden become brutally honest you would have one hell of a paradigm shift, but in this instance, I'll just call it a somewhat revealing gaffe, and let it go at that.

:shrug:

and was in the room when Robert was shot; is one of George Bernard Shaw's as I recall ~ "Some men see things as they are and say why - I dream things that never were and say why not." http://www.quotedb.com/quotes/3143

Here's another I like, "The only man I know who behaves sensibly is my tailor; he takes my measurements anew each time he sees me. The rest go on with their old measurements and expect me to fit them." ~ George Bernard Shaw

But you're right, if Hillary Clinton is to be pitted, made to reconcile her words up against one of the greatest minds the world has ever known...then she's toast :(


edited fer spell'n :dunce:

<snip>

"Some men see things as they are and say, 'Why'? I dream of things that never were and say, 'Why not'?" Robert Kennedy made this quotation famous during his 1968 Presidential campaign. Although he apparently used it on several occasions as a kind of slogan, the only occasion for which we have been able to find documentation is his speech at the University of Kansas on March 18, 1968. In its original form, the quotation was said by the serpent in George Bernard Shaw's play Back to Methuselah , and was used by President Kennedy in his Speech to the Irish Parliament on June 28, 1963: "Speaking as an Irishman summed up an approach to life: 'Other people,' he said, 'see things and say: why - but I dream things that never were and say: why not.'"

<snip>

Link: http://www.jfklibrary.org/Historical+Resources/Archives/Reference+Desk/Quotations+of+Robert+F.+Kennedy.htm

:evilgrin:

that much is clear. That the Kennedy', a very well read family, would quote an Irish man-of-letters seems a given. That the words as offered in your <snip>, indicated as such as having been placed firstly within the mouth of a serpent suggests the viability/pliability of the words themselves without having had to allude to the fall of man via a false hope very well timed & placed. Still...writer's strike or no,

I still say we have the better candidates regardless.

The glaring contrast speaks for itself.