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John/Elizabeth Edwards Stand for Families - Including My LGBT Household

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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 06:21 PM
Original message
John/Elizabeth Edwards Stand for Families - Including My LGBT Household
Edited on Sun Jan-06-08 06:27 PM by CorpGovActivist
John Edwards' ***searchable*** website proves that form follows function. If the function is open government, the form should match, and make it easy for citizens/voters to find the data they're seeking.

It's not hard at all to find http://www.johnedwards.com/issues/lgbt/">Edwards' policy stands on LGBT issues.

His videotaped statements at the Human Rights Campaign/LOGO http://visiblevote08.logoonline.com/">"Visible Vote" forum included statements that lead me to believe that http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=elizabeth+edwards+gay+rights">Elizabeth Edwards and their oldest daughter are pushing him hard on these issues, too.

The cornball story about how the http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=elizabeth+edwards+john+wendy%27s+anniversary">Edwardses celebrate their wedding anniversary each year at Wendy's gets me every time; my partner of nearly 14 years and I have corny traditions like that, too, and I see love and true partnership reflected in that glimpse into their personal life together. I not only see the adoring "political wife," I see an equal partner who would fight tooth, nail, and claw for her loved one. It is not easy to keep a marriage together under the best of circumstances, but she makes it look easy.

My prayers each night have included Mrs. Edwards. The inner strength she shows in the midst of a second bout with cancer is remarkable and awe-inspiring. I am sure she has drawn strength from John in return - never worrying that he would be denied access to her during treatment, as so many LGBT partners are.

http://www.thetaskforce.org/issues/marriage_and_partnership_recognition">TheTaskForce.org maintains a running list of automatically-conferred, selectively-denied rights that married couples enjoy, but partnered couples don't. I keep the bookmark they sent me in one of the books on my nightstand, to remind me of why we fight.

I will fight for the Edwards Family to become the First Family, because they won't seek to keep mine in Second-Class, or that "Other America."

- Dave
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BuelahWitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
1. K&R for John and Elizabeth and ALL families!
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Thanks, from My Family to Yours
:hug:

- Dave
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Maven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
2. K/R
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frogmarch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
4. You said it! Fine OP. K&R
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Thanks! The Edwardses' White House Residence Conversations...
... would give me great hope.

- Dave
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judaspriestess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
5. I love Elizabeth Edwards
when she took on that asshole Ann Coulter on, it was beautiful.

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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. She Is Truly Remarkable...
... and what an incredible family she has helped raise!

: )

- Dave
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #5
70. .
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IdesOfOctober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
8. K/R!
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
9. .....
:hug:

Hekate
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Right Back...
... atcha!

:hug:

- Dave
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LucyParsons Donating Member (938 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 08:43 PM
Response to Original message
11. I totally agree with you here, BUT
what is with all the rhetoric about "families" - in general?

Because I am a single woman with no children, am I not a "family"? Do I not have a "family"? Is my extended family not just a non-man-woman-2.5-children nuclear model like yours? Who defines what a "family" is?

"Family" rhetoric always pisses me off because it doesn't really MEAN anything. Everyone is part of a family. I don't think any candidate can stand "for" or "against" families. Unless maybe they're an out and out Marxist with a platform that includes the abolition of the family altogether.

haha

Sorry, this is just a pet peeve of mine. I support Edwards myself.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. In the Eyes of My Government, I'm Single, Too n/t
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LucyParsons Donating Member (938 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Which is one of the many reasons I am anti-state-sanctioned-marriage
in general, and intend to never legally marry.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. How to Guarantee...
... things like hospital visitation rights, etc.?

I'm not necessarily disagreeing, but those rights matter.

- Dave
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LucyParsons Donating Member (938 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. I think the whole thing is flawed, and don't want the government determining ANY of that
You should be able to name whoever you want as your next-of-kin for those purposes - your wife, your partner, your grandma - WHOEVER YOU WANT.

I have a problem with the government sanctioning and regulating what is a cultural and religious interpersonal relationship.

People are autonomous. Being legally married is no guarantee that someone will love you for the rest of your life. You can't exert proprietary rights of the body and mind of another individual, despite what our sentimentalized, unrealistic cultural consensus is on this.

I am personally for the government removing itself completely from regulating romantic relationships between people. If you want to live with someone and share your resources, that's fine, but you should be responsible for the consequences and always be prepared to support yourself.

I have major problems with tax benefits for married folks, not surprisingly.

And I resent the use of the term "family" as it is so often used in political discourse. To talk about "the interests of families" means NOTHING. Everyone is necessarily a member of some kind of family or another. Even single, childless people.

Of course I think that as long as we have legal marriage, it should be open to everyone, of all sexual persuasions, including polygamists. As long as it's between consensual adults, I don't care.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. You're a ...
... vile libertarian.

:rofl:

And probably an anarchist to boot.

; )

- Dave
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LucyParsons Donating Member (938 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Again...
have you seen my nickname?

;)
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. That's a Misbehaving Woman...
... whose http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_Parsons">story I had forgotten.

The name did not ring a bell at first.

- Dave
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LucyParsons Donating Member (938 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. a much better Texan than * (nt)
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #22
32. Most Texans I've Met...
... can't stand him.

- Dave

P.S. I wonder what was in those papers of hers?
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. To Your Points...
"You should be able to name whoever you want as your next-of-kin for those purposes - your wife, your partner, your grandma - WHOEVER YOU WANT."

I'm with you on that.

"I have a problem with the government sanctioning and regulating what is a cultural and religious interpersonal relationship."

I'm mostly with you on that. I think religious denominations/cultures should be able to bless as they see fit. But to your first point: there has to be an official way to designate your chosen list of next-of-kin.

"People are autonomous. Being legally married is no guarantee that someone will love you for the rest of your life. You can't exert proprietary rights of the body and mind of another individual, despite what our sentimentalized, unrealistic cultural consensus is on this."

What if you get mad at or have a falling out with the person named on your list? There has to be an equivalent of divorce (indeed, the lack of divorce rights is actually a big one for the LGBT community, because it denies us access to impartial courts).

"I have major problems with tax benefits for married folks, not surprisingly."

I have mixed feelings, but could probably think of ways to make it fair.

"And I resent the use of the term 'family' as it is so often used in political discourse. To talk about 'the interests of families' means NOTHING. Everyone is necessarily a member of some kind of family or another. Even single, childless people."

Well, even though my partner and I are DINKs (Double Income, No Kids) at the present time, I can definitely see that couples with kids have special concerns, and I don't mind organizing a society that helps them raise healthy, productive, law-abiding citizens.

"Of course I think that as long as we have legal marriage, it should be open to everyone, of all sexual persuasions, including polygamists. As long as it's between consensual adults, I don't care."

We're almost eye-to-eye on that.

- Dave
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LucyParsons Donating Member (938 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. the only one of these points we really seem to have a disagreement on:
"What if you get mad at or have a falling out with the person named on your list? There has to be an equivalent of divorce (indeed, the lack of divorce rights is actually a big one for the LGBT community, because it denies us access to impartial courts)."

I would say it's the same situation as we have now with wills. People can have living wills if they want, including next of kin status. This should be something that be easily changed by each citizen, at little or no cost, without recourse to a lawyer. Easy-peasy. A simple form, just like the designated recipient of my life insurance. Which, in my case, is my overworked, no-retirement, no-savings, 60-year-old, twice-divorced mother.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #23
33. "Easy-peasy"
That form is backed by ERISA, a Federal law.

; )

- Dave
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LucyParsons Donating Member (938 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #33
65. No, I am saying that's how is *should* be
that's how easy it SHOULD be
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #65
66. Gotcha...
... but I still favor a very, very, very limited government backing to the legality of the easy-peasy form.

; )

- Dave
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
15. Once again thank you for the facts and nothing but the facts. eom
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. You Bet!
Any particular link interest you?

- Dave
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #15
71. .
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
24. k/r!!
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Missy Vixen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 11:08 PM
Response to Original message
25. Here's to the Edwards family
Edited on Sun Jan-06-08 11:15 PM by JulieRB
:toast:

They believe that others want to have a legally recognized family, too, and should have the right to do so.

I look forward to a First Lady I can be proud of again.

Julie
edited for inartful use of the language ;-)
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. "I look forward to a First Lady I can be proud of again."
AMEN!

Elizabeth Edwards ROCKS!

- Dave
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #25
61. .
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Lugnut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
26. K&R n/t
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
27. K&R. (nt)
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
28. Sure, as long as LGBT couples don't want to get married.
:eyes:
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. He Made Quite Clear...
... in his remarks at the LOGO/HRC forum, that he is in flux on that.

At least with Elizabeth Edwards in the White House, my partner and I have faith that the First Lady will be kicking the President's butt to do the right thing, rather than triangulate.

- Dave
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. Oooo, flux.
:eyes:
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. I'll Take His Honest Flux over Her 35 Years of Triangulating Experience...
... any day of the week, and twice on Sundays.

- Dave
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Honest flux?
:rofl:

Please, Edwards is trying to play the middle, appealing to the homophobe vote, just like everybody else.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. No, He Describes How His Religious Upbringing...
... colors his views. He's self-aware enough to examine it, publicly, and admit that he's wrestling with it - and is at odds with his very smart wife and daughter.

Maybe you can point out remarks by Senator Clinton that show anything close to that?

- Dave
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. And you fell for it?
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. Well, First I Fell for Hillary...
... but I brushed myself off and recovered.

- Dave
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mtnester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. Hee...you got THAT right
As a parent of a wonderful son who is an out and proud member of the LGBT community, I am totally with you on this.

I listened to way too many good, solid voting Dems come to the polls on election day 2004 in Ohio and cast their ballots FOR John Kerry, and also FOR Issue 1..which bans gay marriage in Ohio...oh and it ALSO bans any rights any common law folk might have had prior to this.

I just never understood that...to this day....well..I sort of do...it just pains me to recognize how many Dems are secret homphobes and bigots.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. Virginia Passed a Law That Is Headed to Supreme Court...
... it has been http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=virginia+gay+marriage">described as the New Jim Crow.

It even goes so far as to purport to prohibit employers from offering DP benefits.

- Dave
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. BTW...
... supportive moms and dads ROCK!

:hug:

- Dave
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mtnester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. Listen, if you would have heard the story about WHY our son finally
Edited on Mon Jan-07-08 02:13 PM by mtnester
decided to come out of the closet...it would break your heart.

One morning, on my cell phone, there was a message (August 2004). It was our son, who had called at about 0200, to tell us that he knew we would understand and love him, but he was so damn sorry he never told his grandmother and she never knew who he really WAS as a person (we had tragically and very unexpectedly lost my mother in June of that year)and that yes, he was gay, and he was finally OK with it.

OK - we could clearly tell he had imbibed in just a bit of liquid courage...he sounded slightly buzzed and it WAS 0200 :)...SO, we wanted to get back with him and encourage him that it was OK and right to tell us and that yes of course we love him why would that change...all the things that parents who truly love their children want to say...we waited until about noon (since we thought he might be sleeping in, you understand) and we could not get hold of him...we left voice mail that was SERIOUS voice mail (call us as soon as you can)...hours went by..no call...we tried over and over...nothing....we started to get scared....what if he was having an "oh shit" moment? What if...he got scared and thought about harming himself? WHY was he not answering/returning our now OBVIOUSLY FRANTIC phone calls? At around 1900 hours, when we were packing bags and getting in the car to head to Cincinnati to find him..he called...whoops...he did not know it but he must have bumped his OFF button on the phone..sorry...(little stinker! He was LAUGHING at us...smart alek kid!)

He told us that one of his girl buds had just told her parents the day before she was gay...she was staying over at his house as they had thrown her out, cut off her funds for college and rent, and told her never come back. How TERRIBLE...what kind of parent DOES something like that to a child that 2 hours earlier they had loved and adored? Our son said he did not want us not knowing, was sorry he never told his grandma, and did not want us to hear from strangers that he was out. He said "do you not remember my sophomore year at college when I was drinking so hard" No, we did not...you never TOLD us bad bad BAD child...we would have helped you dammit (of course we said that, knowing full well we could NOT have helped him damn it as much as we wanted to..it was the year he really struggled with it himself)

Of course, we have known since he was about 10 years old...it just took HIM longer to come to terms with it...no surprise for us...and we assured him that his super loving, totally sensitive grandma had known all along as well.,.and loved him for it..it is part of who he is...and believe me, I am not saying this as a proud parent...my son never met a stranger, and everyone who knows him loves him for his loyalty, his snarkiness, his irreverence, and his ability to make you face hard truths in a gentle and loving (but tough) way. He will make someone a fine partner one day if you can get past his sometimes overly sarcastic one liners..oh well :)

Unfortunately, we had to also make some other decisions he asked us to. He did not want his great grandfather knowing (he is 86..probably would not understand...no need to do this at this point in his life). The saddest one? The other grandma who loves him dearly...nope, we cannot tell her (although I suspect she knows and does not care), and his biological father (how sad) is not allowed to know either. I had warned him that this is unwise, and could come back to bite him...but it is his call.

ALL of that said, we are obviously proud of him, and at times, want to shake him...typical parents!
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. Ack!
:hug:

:hug:

:hug:

That's about all I can type thru tears right now.

Thank you.

- Dave
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mtnester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. How..how could parents DO that to a child?
I still do not understand.

Thanks for the tears....I got em too!
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. I'm Not Easily Brought to Tears...
... but this lies so close to the core, it got me.

- Dave
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mtnester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. May I ask...did you have supportive parents?
Edited on Mon Jan-07-08 02:22 PM by mtnester
you do not have to answer if you don't want to

and it can be PM if it is easier..:)
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. My Parents and My Maw Maw (Grandmother) ROCK!
I'm still a little verklempt. I promise the lowdown momentarily.

I'll give you a topic: http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&resnum=0&q=barbara+streisand+oprah&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wv">Bah-Bah-ra and Oprah - off their lithium?

- Dave
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. The Whole Sordid Tale
Edited on Mon Jan-07-08 04:12 PM by CorpGovActivist
... in this http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2613179&mesg_id=2613179">thread with the touching story of a son's coming out, here's mine, cross-posted.

This is why LGBT issues are at or near the top of my list of issues by which I am yardsticking the Democratic candidates.

- Dave
******************************************************************
Since you reduced me to a gushing mess, here's the story.

I knew I had an affinity for other boys at a very young age. The problem was, I was already "different," having been tagged by the school system as some kind of off-the-charts genius by the end of kindergarten. I still have never seen the results of the testing; the tests were (still are) locked away.

But all of society's programming said things like "Jack and JILL went up the hill," ya know? So why be any more "different" than I already was? Oh, yes, those subtle societal signals come thru loud and clear, even at that age.

So, I became the quiet kid; the one who didn't raise his hand, but still got called on by the teacher anyway, when nobody else knew the answer. I learned to overcome that social stigma by tutoring other kids, and by befriending everyone - including social outcasts.

By 4th grade, I began to understand that the aforementioned "affinity" was sexual. I was enthralled by the "bad boys" telling dirty jokes at the lunch table and during PE. I listened quietly, wishing I could join in their banter.

During junior high, I also went out for sports that I sucked at, so that there was reciprocity for my tutoring, and so that others could coach/mentor me at something that didn't come naturally to me. On the team bus in junior high, I came out of my shell, and became the kid with the BEST dirty jokes. I checked out joke books from the library to that end.

The team bus got me through my parents' divorce when I was in 9th grade.

I continued to befriend social outcasts; by now, I was worried that if my "deep, dark secret" ever came out, maybe - just maybe - some of them would stick by me.

During my junior year of high school, I began to exhibit the symptoms of Crohn's. My teachers and my parents thought that I was overdoing it. I went out for every extracurricular activity I could fit in; my jam-packed schedule became the built-in excuse for why I wasn't dating anyone seriously. "I'll date when I get into college."

When the Crohn's diagnosis was finally rendered my senior year of high school, I wondered if it was God punishing me for being gay. Many nights in my early teens, I'd prayed for God to change me. We'd stopped going to the Pentecostal church I grew up in soon after my parents divorced (at 3 times a week, for 16 years, I have 48 years' worth of church under my belt already). Even though my mom explicitly rejected the pulpit teachings about gay people after any sermon that mentioned it, I still couldn't help but wonder.

The Crohn's diagnosis coincided with: (1) my garnering a Navy ROTC Scholarship; and (2) my early admission to Harvard. I took the oath as a midshipman, but when DODMERB finally got around to reading my medical disclosures, I got booted out: Crohn's is non-waiverable, even though Eisenhower had it (a fact I brought up in my appeal). I took the oath when Saddam was making human shields out of Western visitors in the summer of 90.

College in Cambridge was incredibly liberating. For the first time, I had: (1) anonymity (small towns, pre-Internet, were not conducive to anonymity); and (2) opportunity (can you say, "kid in a candy store"?).

The added bonus was that my parents were hundreds of miles away.

Even though my siblings and I piled up in my sister's bed for bedtime stories at least once a week growing up (my mom does incredible voice work for all the parts); even though she took that opportunity to repeat and gently emphasize that she would love us and support us "no matter what" (including if we robbed a bank, killed someone, ... ,"turned out to be gay"); even though I knew that I would not be rejected ... well, I hadn't come to grips with it yet, and I wasn't quite ready to tell my family.

My calls from college grew rarer. They were shorter. They were about the weather, and other inconsequential topics. The questions I received about dating either ended the call, or brought about a quick change of subject.

Freshman year of college ('90) I discovered the Internet. As line-based research tools (GOPHERS, alt. newsgroups, listservs, etc.) gave way to GUI-based interfaces (Mosaic), I rode the wave.

That's how I met my first serious boyfriend (my senior year), a Newfie who was almost on the Canadian Olympic gymastics team. He broke my heart, and I guess it came through over the phone lines. When my younger sister came up to visit me that year - later, I found out, she'd been sent as a scout - I broke down and told her I am gay. Swearing her to secrecy, I let it all out.

When Commencement activities rolled around in May/June of '94, I was on pins and needles. My family was coming up to Cambridge for more than a week, classes were over, extracurriculars were over; in short, I was royally screwed: trust me, there were no "Not Me" ghosts in our family circus. My mom could get to the bottom of a "Not Me" poltergeist incident in record time. Alarmed at my withdrawal, she was on a mission.

Yup, I was royally screwed.

I still managed to enjoy Commencement. Gore spoke; it was his 25th Reunion. His daughter was a year behind me, in another house.

My parents went home, and I somehow held out. When they drove around the bend out of sight, I started bawling.

A month later, I found some liquid courage of my own, and called home.

"Mom, I'm gonna rent a car and drive down this weekend to spend a week. There's something important I need to tell you."

Well, that went over like a lead Hindenburg.

Was I on drugs?

!!!

What?!?

I reassured her that I had still never even smoked a cigarette (still haven't), and was genuinely pissed that she would think such a thing.

She started playing Twenty Questions over the phone, eliminating her worst fears one by one.

I kept telling her that it was something that needed saying face-to-face, and kept trying to reassure her that it wasn't "bad," just "important."

This was the first real conversation we'd had in a while, and she wasn't about to let it go. Finally, I broke down and told her.

"Are you sure that's all? You're really not on drugs?"

Yup. That was all.

"Thank God. Your sister told me months ago, but I just couldn't believe that you'd avoid me over THAT."

Say WHAT NOW?!?

Needless to say, soon afterwards my sister and I had a "come to Buddha" discussion on sibling solidarity.

I drove down that weekend, and we talked. And talked. And talked. And made pots of tea and coffee, and talked some more. Four years' worth of college stories (the ones that truly mattered) to tell. She had epiphanies about why I went out for certain activities before college: "Oh, you wanted to spend more time with X," or "Oh, you DID have crushes after all."

My stepdad was hilarious: "But (long pause) you (long pause) played baseball."

Yup, and I'm still a diehard Yankees fan with a reserved batting cage time.

My younger brother was a pip: "I thought that might be the case. You couldn't dance when you left, but you could when you got back that first summer. You were going clubbing *somewhere*."

Soon after coming out to my family (that same summer after Commencement, in fact), I met my partner - online, arguing in an IT chat room. Go figure. At the time, I figured he'd be a good rebound. Go figure. Some rebound.

A couple of years after meeting him, I broke down and told my Maw Maw, my grandmother. It was important to me that she know. Your son's situation was the very one I wrestled with, and it - phew! - still brings me to tears to think about her reaction.

I was nervous telling her. That, despite the fact that a few years prior, she made a point of telling me that one of her nephews - my 2nd cousin - had come to visit her after losing his mother (my great-aunt and my grandmother's sister). He broke down and told her: (1) he was gay; and (2) he was HIV positive. She made a point of telling me how she'd become a surrogate mom to him, and what she was doing to support him.

When I told her, I thought she might have told me that story for reasons besides the fact that we'd always been especially close. I thought maybe her intuition had told her about me, and she was sending me a signal that it was OK to tell her.

It hadn't. She wasn't.

Once she got over the initial shock, she was perfect. Soon afterwards, I took my partner to meet her. He'd lost his own (special, close) grandma the winter before we met.

There have only been two times I've ever seen him cry. The first was when we got in the car to leave: "She reminds me of my Grandma J."

My Maw Maw can cook. I cannot; I am Lucille Ball on the conveyor belt at the chocolate factory in the kitchen. My partner (a creative genius in the kitchen) has been entrusted with her recipes! (Even the chicken 'n dumplins.)

So, there you have it.

I have friends who've had initial fallings-out with their families, only to patch things up later after the dust settled. I hope your son's friend is able to repair her relationship.

This helps explain why - after nearly 14 years of partnership - I'm putting LGBT rights near the top of my list of issues by which to yardstick the candidates.

As for your son's snarky irreverence: (1) irreveRANTS through it, to coin a pun; and (2) it's more fun for parents to see a snarky, irreverant son or daughter find a partner who routinely gets the better of their brat (trust me, my whole family would agree; they love it when my partner lays me out with one of his quick quips or one-liners, and his family feels the same way about me).

So stop praying that your son'll tone it down; start praying instead that he'll find a partner who'll give him a run for his money.

Then stock up on popcorn, and keep his bedroom available for entertaining visits.

: )

- Dave

P.S. My dad has been great, too.

P.P.S. Has your son started teasing ya'll about who made him gay, and how? My siblings and I get a huge rise out of my mom, especially. That, plus reminding her that she included "being gay" on a list with "robbing a bank" and "killing someone" - as one of the things we could do and still warrant her unconditional love. "I didn't mean it like THAT!" she retorts, indignantly. Works every time.
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mtnester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #48
51. My son has not teased about that.....
but, I cannot help this..the line about your indignant reaction over the cigarette is hilarious! I am so sorry, but my son was pissed over the same exact question!

And again...I am sorry if I laugh...but your Mom saying "Is that all...we though you were on drugs or something" is PRICELESS.....it is the same thing we said to our son as well during "the" conversation.

Oh dear God..that all parents get a chance to prove to their children they really DO love them like My hubby and I, and your parents have, to their children someday.

My husband was really cool with it. He knew, too, in his heart of hearts. He is the stepdad who raised him since he was 6..into the fine 27 year old man he is now! He was, again, more worried that there might have been drugs or cigarettes (the cigarettes are a big deal...the only promise I asked of my child is to never start smoking...I was a smoker for many years ...I quit last August..and it was a big deal with me..he was always pissed when I asked him about cigarettes and drugs)

We don't want anyone to take away the snarkiness of our son...just someone who can keep up with him on it and does not have TOO thin of a skin and can hang with him on his BEST day of one line comebacks! Probably someone who is quiet and out of the blue..whammo....set down rolling on the floor laughing at it comeback type. I would LIKE, before I pass away, to see my son blush ONE time...just once..but only if is it caused by someone he loves.

Our son tried hard dating girls in high school. I do not really think he has told us all of his trials and tribulations..one day he will, when he is ready.

One other note...my uncle is gay, as well as my first cousin (aunt's daughter).. Same side of the family...I refuse to let anyone use the "choice" word with me...my god, do they honestly think someone would choose one of the most difficult paths in life they could if they did not have to? Does that make sense?

My son also was friend to ALL social cliques in high shool...the stoners, the popular kids, the nerds..the goths...you name the group, he had friends in it. He was a letter swimmer each of his years in school....I am sure THAT was tough for him..sheesh kiddo...of all the sports to choose...:)

Thanks for sharing...if you ever need a surrogate mom...shout at me. I can love on you and yell at you (with love) if you need it!

Be careful out there among them English...

mtnester - AKA Kristi
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. Anne Bancroft...
... in http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096289/fullcredits">Torch Song Trilogy. If you haven't watched it with your son, do yourselves both a favor: get a box of Kleenex, some popcorn, something to drink when you become verklempt, and push play. NO SPOILERS.

Also, if you don't already get it on your cable line-up: http://www.logoonline.com/">LOGO and http://www.heretv.com/">Here!, both of which have suggested language you can use to persuade your cable system to add them if they don't already have them.

"but, I cannot help this..the line about your indignant reaction over the cigarette is hilarious! I am so sorry, but my son was pissed over the same exact question!"

As I told her, her teaching about drinking to excess, smoking, and drug use shielded me from what I could have done while clubbing.

"And again...I am sorry if I laugh...but your Mom saying 'Is that all...we though you were on drugs or something' is PRICELESS.....it is the same thing we said to our son as well during 'the' conversation."

I expected it to be no big deal. What I didn't count on was that her mind had run wild like that while I was taking my time coming out.

"Oh dear God..that all parents get a chance to prove to their children they really DO love them like My hubby and I, and your parents have, to their children someday."

My biological clock is going, TICK, TICK, TICK, to channel http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104952/quotes">Marisa Tomei. I adore kids, and love being the Pied Piper during family reunions.

"My husband was really cool with it. He knew, too, in his heart of hearts. He is the stepdad who raised him since he was 6..into the fine 27 year old man he is now! He was, again, more worried that there might have been drugs or cigarettes (the cigarettes are a big deal...the only promise I asked of my child is to never start smoking...I was a smoker for many years ...I quit last August..and it was a big deal with me..he was always pissed when I asked him about cigarettes and drugs)"

Congratulations on quitting! I bet your son is immensely proud of you. My mom quit before getting pregnant. My dad quit when I was about 4, after my sister ate a pack of his while Mom and I were at church, and the two of them (dad and sis) stayed home (my sister was already sick when she ate them).

"We don't want anyone to take away the snarkiness of our son...just someone who can keep up with him on it and does not have TOO thin of a skin and can hang with him on his BEST day of one line comebacks! Probably someone who is quiet and out of the blue..whammo....set down rolling on the floor laughing at it comeback type. I would LIKE, before I pass away, to see my son blush ONE time...just once..but only if is it caused by someone he loves."

I don't blush easily anymore, but used to at the drop of a hat. But when I do, it's nearly terminal. Why do moms enjoy that?!? I hope you get your wish - ONCE.

"Our son tried hard dating girls in high school. I do not really think he has told us all of his trials and tribulations..one day he will, when he is ready."

I did the bare minimum necessary to shut everyone up. He may not want to relive the horror.

; )

"One other note...my uncle is gay, as well as my first cousin (aunt's daughter).. Same side of the family...I refuse to let anyone use the 'choice' word with me...my god, do they honestly think someone would choose one of the most difficult paths in life they could if they did not have to? Does that make sense?"

My mom is either 16th of 16 or 17th of 17, depending on which of her older siblings you ask. I strongly suspect it's a sex-linked set of genes, based on the spread of gay first cousins, and based on emerging research. I try to avoid recurring questions about whether I think that's the case, because I think there may be residual guilt. I can remember noting the "affinity," but I sure as hell don't recall saying, "Yup, this is the 'lifestyle' for me."

"My son also was friend to ALL social cliques in high shool...the stoners, the popular kids, the nerds..the goths...you name the group, he had friends in it. He was a letter swimmer each of his years in school....I am sure THAT was tough for him..sheesh kiddo...of all the sports to choose..."

When my high school principal called me into his office to present me with an award that the school had received for one of my scholarships, he asked me what I most wanted to be remembered for: I told him, without missing a beat, something to the effect of, "I didn't pick a clique, but was friends with anyone and everyone." For me, it really was "social insurance" of a type. I figured if my "deep, dark secret" ever came to light, that maybe - just maybe - a small handful of friends would stick by me. As it turned out, I was able to take my partner to my 10th high school reunion with no problem.

We didn't have a swim team. However, I was glued to the set when Michael Phelps competed. Your son chose - wisely.

Baseball, basketball, and track have their own charms.

"Thanks for sharing...if you ever need a surrogate mom...shout at me. I can love on you and yell at you (with love) if you need it!"

I can ALWAYS - ALWAYS! - benefit from a new surrogate mom who understands these issues.

:hug:

"Be careful out there among them English..."

Whazzat mean?

"mtnester - AKA Kristi"

Nice to meetcha, Kristi. If you're gonna be a surrogate mom, I suppose you should call me "David," not "Dave."

; )

- D.
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mtnester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. Funny all the David's in my life
my hubby, soulmate and best friend...David

My ex hubby - David

My sister's son - David

My new surrogate son - David.

SEVEN men I work with - David

it gets confusing...

And you cracked me up with some of that stuff...you used humor too...and refined it to a honed sword didn't you? Same as my son...same.

The English line was from the movie Witness...at the very end...it was acceptance..

And we do get Logo....it ALSO looks like I got me movie watching to do.

:)
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. I Love My Name
David = Beloved, derived from Hebrew
Allen = Harmony, derived from Celtic
Smith = Smite, derived from Old English

"Beloved harmony smites."

; )

I used to complain that Mom didn't give me a high-scoring Scrabble letter for a middle initial (Z, Q, etc.). Now, with the advent of identity theft, I'm fine with it.

Besides, without the "A." the http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=david+smith+halliburton">Halliburton identity fiasco would never have happened.

"And you cracked me up with some of that stuff...you used humor too...and refined it to a honed sword didn't you? Same as my son...same."

Oh, yeah. You betcha!

"The English line was from the movie Witness...at the very end...it was acceptance.."

That's the Amish outsider movie? I know the basic premise, but suppose I should add that to my NetFlix queue.

"And we do get Logo....it ALSO looks like I got me movie watching to do."

Do you own at least one TiVo? I can rec some LOGO programming. If you're keen on keeping current with new music trends, NewNowNext and The Click List are great. Some of the in-depth documentaries are good, too.

As for movies, I have a whole list of good ones for parents seeking to understand.

; )

:hug:

- Dave
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mtnester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. We are still a little Tivo phobic
but we are getting there..I never thought we would be old fogeys bitching about technology..but alas.

Witness was a movie with Kelly McGillis and Harrison Ford...debut directed by Viggo Mortenson (1985). Here is the Wiki link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witness_(1985_film)

And always, you too be careful...you have an extra target on your back I know.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. TiVo...
... ROCKS! Buy it, try it. You can always take it back.

You can: (1) use all your newfound free time for other pursuits; and/or (2) pack in more shows, including ones that come on at odd hours.

"And always, you too be careful...you have an extra target on your back I know."

:freak:

Now where have I heard THAT before?

:eyes:

- Dave
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mtnester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. Uh oh...I was talking about your intercepted Email
yikes...did I step in it?
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #57
58. No, I Knew That....
... just that I hear THAT all the time, as a result.

; )

- Dave
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TrogL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #42
74. I heard many coming out horror stories
...especially coming from families involved in the religious right.

Mine was much stranger. My mother outed me....to myself.

We had been talking (fairly uncomfortably) about girls and she suddenly blurted out "you don't like girls, do you?" I had to admit that she had a point. A number of years later, I had been beating around the bush trying to figure out how to explain that I was moving in with a boyfriend when she finally got a clue and exclaimed "oh, you're sweet on him - isn't that nice".

The wierd thing is that she absolutely loathes bisexuals (I've never discovered why, she likes gay people). She knows I've been in committed relationships with or at least dated people of several sexes and sexual orientations (she was rather bemused by the picture of my boi-friend in a bikini) but we've never had the "bi" discussion (probably by mutual silent agreement).
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #74
75. Many Parents Seem to Know...
... although yours is the rare - but not the first - instance of a parent seizing the subject I've heard.

Your mom sounds like someone who doesn't beat around the bush!

"The wierd thing is that she absolutely loathes bisexuals (I've never discovered why, she likes gay people). She knows I've been in committed relationships with or at least dated people of several sexes and sexual orientations (she was rather bemused by the picture of my boi-friend in a bikini) but we've never had the 'bi' discussion (probably by mutual silent agreement)."

That's a strange phenom I've seen from some, too. Strange!

Have you laid Woody Allen's line on her? "...automatically doubles your chances of getting a date on a Saturday night."

; )

- Dave
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TrogL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #75
77. ...in my case "triples"
...or even more 'cause I get to date the whole alphabet.
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Barb in Atl Donating Member (254 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #35
72. Appealing to homophobes?
One would think that talking about human rights and civil unions for teh gays would turn off a homophobe in general, don't you?
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #72
73. Thanks!
Welcome to DU.

- Dave
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Blackhatjack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
49. Edwards has been very clear that he won't stand for discrimination against gays...
I do not think any other candidate would do a better job of rectifying the discrimination that my friend points out on this OP.

His actions would be preferred to the platitudes others put out, but do not follow up on once elected.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. Thank You...
... for all you did to bring me around to the Edwards camp.

As you may recall, I had my doubts and my misgivings. When we engaged on this issue in the October/November timeframe, I gently chided you for a few posts about the Clinton Campaign.

Your opinion was one of the weightier ones I heard regarding Edwards. While I can't give you all the credit (some extended family members factored in heavily, too), you really were one of the more persuasive and informative Edwards supporters.

:toast:

- Dave
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Blackhatjack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #50
62. Thanks for the partial credit, but you did all the heavy lifting researching Edwards...
I have heard Edwards speak candidly about the issue, and in every case he always said emphatically that he would not support and would end discrimination against gays. I think he could have chosen an easier route that might have been more politically expedient --but he is known for being honest, and I take this as just another example of that.

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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #62
69. It's More Natural/Relatable...
... to see a candidate wrestle with and ponder these issues.

Your avatar looks deep in thought on a tough subject, to me.

: )

- Dave
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Elspeth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
59. I hope Edwards can pull this out in New Hampshire
I think is the one hope in this election for the little guy
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #59
60. I Think 2nd Will Do...
... given the cluster of upcoming races.

- Dave
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Blackhatjack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #60
63. I agree. And I think Edwards has a good shot at getting past Hillary to 2nd place in N.H.
Hillary's campaign is on a down tick, and Edwards' campaign is moving up.

It appears highly unlikely that Obama will not win in N.H. But 2nd would be a good place for Edwards heading to Nevada(a major union endorsement state) and S. Carolina(Edwards state of birth, where he won in 2004).
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #63
64. NV Becomes Critical, and SC Is in Play...
... that'll be an interesting matchup.

- Dave
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Blackhatjack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #64
67. Interesting comment attributed to Joe Trippi regarding Clinton $ troubles...
It is interesting because so far there is no denial coming from the Edwards team --but that could be due to the intense campaigning going on right now in N.H.

He allegedly says the Clinton campaign is on the ropes financially after Obama won the Iowa Caucus.
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #67
68. Terry M. Was on Bloomberg Tonight...
... see page 3 or 4 for the thread. It was in the 7-8 p.m. ET timeframe.

- Dave
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Buttercup McToots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
76. Bump...up
President John Edwards...
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