Grievance, Black Politics, and Black Identity

Scholar, Shelby Steele on Bill Moyers, Journal


video link:

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/01112008/profile2.html

In his conversation with Bill Moyers on this week’s JOURNAL, scholar Shelby Steele said the following:

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/blog/2008/01/diversity_of_opinion_within_th.html

I am black and happy to be so, but my identity is not my master. I’m my master. And I resent this civil rights leadership telling me what I should think and what issues I should support this way or that way. And that’s where, in black America, identity has become almost totalitarian... You subscribe to the idea that the essence of blackness is grounded in grievance, and if you vary from that you are letting whites off the hook. And we’re gonna call you a sell out. We’re gonna call you an ‘Uncle Tom’... I was gonna have a life or I was just going to be a kind of surrogate for blackness... but you enter an exile where the group identifies you as someone who is a threat, and part of being black is despising or having contempt for people like me.

When Mr. Steele first started talking, I thought he was way off. But, when I listened to him, he opened my eyes. I wish I had already known what he was saying.

It was very informative on black identity. It made me appreciate even more what Obama has done, and what he is doing.

Thanks for posting this, I was just going to root it out.

brush-up on the this issue ASAP. I sense this Thread will be ignored since it is based on an intellectual foundation.

I, too, liked what he said, as well as when he said this: "The job of the collective is to produce individuals."

he came down on a hope that Obama would win.

The complexities of race intrigued me.

vs. the Challengers.

I didn't get that he hoped Obama would win, just that he was really proud of him. As I said, though, I want to watch it again, because there was so much info in it, it deserves a second look.

how difficult it is for one being, growing up mixed.,, the challenges of finding and being accepted in a peer group...almost impossible.,,,

This is an excellent time to hear from Shelby Steele!

Or did I miss it on the link provided?

Because if the substance of the interview is distilled in th paragraph ion the OP, them I don't see what folks here are cheering about.

in the OP....I did not actually follow through and check if the links worked. I will do that then.

I could have missed it. But I just went back to the link in the OP and couldn't find a link to the actual interview. And I really want to hear the interview because I wouldn't want to speak out my mouth and say where the fuck was this son of a bitch when Genalorow Wilson was looking at 10 years for consensual sex or when the whole Jena 6 thing went down or when over the last 2 years at least 5-6 Black men have been released from jail after serving horrendous terms for crimes they didn't commit..

I'm Black and I don't have time for victim mentalities but sometimes; It is what it is.

interview.

Can you check for me and see if it works for the masses? O8)

The Journal Page has a link to the video and transcript....Top left hand side for me.....

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/01112008/transcript2.html

PBS' usual website link for this is broken ... so it can now only be found with SEARCH.

Shelby Steele is just another puke pushing the Republican agenda. I am black and happy too but Shelby Steele can kiss my a**!

Funny how Steele can count on his fingers how he feels "Blacks" are aggrieved.

But where the fuck is he when our kids are being beaten to death? (Martin Lee Anderson)

Or when when White kids can hand nooses in a "White" tree? (Jena 6)

Or when an hard working African immigrant can be blown away on his own doorstep? (Amadou Diallo)

Or raped by a toilet plunger? (Abner Louima)

Or blown away the night before your wedding? (Sean Bell)


Nope. Never hear from Mr Steele then but he wants to talk about the politics of grievance.

Gimme a break.

I read the transcript and this guys an asshole.

He said things that I have never heard before. I wasn't sure of his labels of bargainer vs. challenger.

But, I would like to know more about what you think of what he said.

every day!O8)

snip>

BILL MOYERS: In fact I feel for black women in this. Because they've got this first time unprecedented choice of a plausible woman candidate, as a Democrat, and a plausible black candidate.

SHELBY STEELE: Yeah.

BILL MOYERS: They must feel a tension.

SHELBY STEELE: They have to. I think that the black community in general has been very conflicted about Barack Obama. Precisely because he's been so successful among whites. And that makes black people nervous.

BILL MOYERS: Yeah. You say in here, white people like Barack Obama a little too much for the comfort of many blacks.

SHELBY STEELE: Yes. Yes.

BILL MOYERS: Why?

SHELBY STEELE: Well, the black American identity, certainly black American politics are grounded in what I call challenging. It's basically, they look at white America and say we're going to presume that you're a racist until you prove otherwise. The whole concept is you keep whites on the hook. You keep the leverage. You keep the pressure. Here's a guy who's what I call a bargainer who's giving whites the benefit of the doubt.

It's about reaching across racial lines to try to bring people together.

What's missing from Mr Steele's learned opinion is that most of the Republican front runners chose NOT to show up at debates where the issues would dominated by Black, Hispanic or Gay constituencies.

They are not even bargaining, they are ignoring. But Mr Steele can only cast his steely gaze on Obama.

edited for crappy spelling

how did he end up voting for George W. Bush. Not once, but twice, according to an interview with the San Francisco Chronicle. He had me going until I learned that. Now he just seems like a deeply confused man.

HE'S AN ASSHOLE.

Listen to any major Black media outlets and this guy is invisible. He gets on his pity pot and says that because of his opinions about Black America, he's an outcast.

But he can halos be an outcast because, the Black community has analyzed his opinions and have come to the conclusion that he's a major league asshole: that his opinions are intellectually dishonest and that he probably makes more money speaking to conservative think tanks than addressing the community that he "espouses" so much knowledge about.

that he never spoke to White culpability for this "aggrieved" feeling he feels our community has.

Listen, I'll be the first to say that our community has issues that it needs to deal with. I think the problem with a lot of White progressives, (and I mean real progressives, not closet racists) is that there is a hesitancy to say "You know what, you got to get your house in order. More Black men are killed at the hands of other Black men than the KKK which we despise" I'd be ok with that.

But tis guy speaks as if there aren't real reasons that our community should have a beef. I mean; Do you really thing Genarlow Wilson should have been sentenced to 10 years in jail for a consensual BJ and show me the examples where White kids are being similarly prosecuted?

as viewed from the Black Community are valid? I am asking this, because I don't know.

He said that Challengers assume White(institutions) are racist, and maintain that assumption until proven otherwise. I could appreciate and understand that.

He said that Bargainers let Whites off the hook, and don't make Whites them feel guilty. What that does, in his words, is takes away the power that Blacks have.

Was he using these labels as convenience to divide, or does he have a valid point?

the whole concept is assinine.

First of all, it's insulting that he thinks he can distill all Black people into these 2 neatly delineated groups.

I mean it's fucking stupid: The only thing we see the prism of politics through is Race?

Supposed I'm a Black civil service worker with a family that has seen my spendable income decline over the last 8 years. You thin I'm looking at the world in the terms of Bargainers and Challengers???

And where they hell does he get off positing the theory that the power of our community is vested solely in the ability to make White people feel "guilty"?

ASSHOLE

The labeling/dividing didn't sit well with me. I had never heard of the guy, and like I said, he was saying things I'd never heard before.

Steele occasionally puts forth an idea worth discussing. However, he is very deeply invested in being "the exception." What do we as progressives think of those, regardless of ethnic origin, who were unable to suss out the *blithering BFEE blivet the FIRST TIME? :eyes: Shelby is about Shelby (and his unacknowledged 50% access). In THAT he has much in common with *HCIC.

It is an alternative to what is already accepted.
I saw the interview. Everyone should watch it.

here that's particularly unusual for him or noteworthy.

:hi:

nail, head, etc. :thumbsup: :hi:

this is consistent with what he's said in the past. I didn't see any big revelation in that transcript.