How high oil ? How low the dollar ? Tonite Gold hit $914.30

In the history of the world, Gold has never been that high - and the worst of
the subprime disaster is not at bottom yet - minimum another two years, maximum - who knows. How long did The Great Depression last? 6 -7 years ? They say it really began in 1928 but the whole crash didn't come til 1929.

But there's something to look forward to if you're one of the little people. The Germans have a word for it, Schadenfreude. Glee at the others bad fortune, and in this case the other is the robber barons of the stock market and banks, the CEO's of the Corporations with their multitudinous stock options which will be good for wallpaper.

Gold is going to go a lot higher..some have said $1500, but if its already at
$912.40 - oops it just went up another dollar - then $2000 would not be out of the realm of possibility. There are even those who are saying $6000. I suppose if the crash followed by Depression lasted 6 or 7 years that would not be out of the realm of possibility.

Funny thought - Bin Laden's goal was to ruin the USA financially.
Bush's goal has been to ruin the USA financially in order to deprive the little people of FDR's safety net programs, return the monies to the rich which they have been deprived of over the years since they were forced to pay taxes,and return the USA to pre-1920, all wealth in the hands of a few, low wages and long hours for the rest.

Both had the goal of war to accomplish their ends.

Gee- you don't think they were/are still partners do you?

I'll never understand the cheerleading of the so called progressive base towards full-out economic collapse.

damn well better get the money out of the 401K's, get it out of the banks and whatever monetary paper instrument they have it in before they end up like Enron pensioners and put it under the mattress or bury it in a tin can in the yard...cause that runaway train has left the station.

The houses of millions of Americans just like myself who have been paying their mortgages. All of a sudden lost in one fell swoop.

Should I divest in my home as well?

This vision/dream of yours is very shortsighted.

Property is the only thing of value that you really hive...that is why they call it "real" estate.
The only question is whether you can hold on to it, if you have a mortgage. Or whether you can pay the taxes on it.

Keep that house and garden and start growing vegetables..

when my mother sold her house in the early 90's and we had to clean out the basement, there were still closets full of "canned" vegetables and fruits down there from WW2. I always wondered if they were still good after 50 years, but they hadn't exploded and they were in those sealed glass jars - looked pretty good - but I wasn't tasting LOL>

There already is a depression on for us little people. We certainly don't have mortgages or 401ks to worry about. Nothing will change for us until enough people feel the pinch. Neither wing of the corporate party gives a crap about us and the one guy with a chance who says populist things can't even win in our so-called workers party.

Nafta and the like have already done a number on the working class. The beast is still hungry though and it is coming for white collar jobs next. When enough people crash and burn we will finally have the votes to change things.

sector VERY hard -- my husband and I, with 4 college degrees between us, are now making a third of what we were making 7 years ago.

it's happening to all sections of the work force,
but in the case Of IT and white collar it's just a beginning -
Chamber of Commerce and Microsoft are pushing for more and more insourcing and
outsourcing of the white collar jobs.

You cant help wondering what kind of jobs are going to be left for Americans.

My idea is that they shoudl get together with all their former workers, like in
a factory - they know how to build or manufacture whaatever the product was....
get together, make a low offer for the empty building containing the machinery...go back into business and produce American and sell American - f_ck
the export..

we have to go back to BUY AMERICAN if we're going to save our own country and its jobs...

right now there' s nothing to buy that's made in America...
so wide open market

and are cursing the practice of "sub-prime lending" in the US.

:cry:

but how many households "jumped on the bandwagon" while knowing that they´ll not be able to pay the mortgage in 5 years, or speculating that the price of the house will increase in 5 years, (and the next guy will take care of my bills for me)?

It´s the system which is "BAD", it´s all "POOR Business sense", completely designed for those economic participants who are looking for easy money. Households and lenders alike.

those mortgage papers?
most people aren't sophisticated enouugh to understand the percentages.
most were talked into them by the sales person for the mortgagor.
Telling them get this mortgage now, and you can refinance in two years, when
the bubble was already bulging.

Then when the people went back to get a fixed mortgage or refinance or second mortgage they either really screwed them over and gave them another mortgage at exhorbitant rate - or told them we're not giving mortgages now - or you dont qualify. Well they didnt qualify in the first place, but the corporation wanted to make money so fudged the figures.

Nope. Dont blame the average person who doesnt understand the mortgage.

I remember the first house I bought. I had diarreah for a week worrying if I would be able to pay off such a big amount on a fixed mortgage. But in those days you had your neighborhood bank that you could "trust".

No,dont blame the householder. Blame the Countrywides and their three card monte game - shell game - keep moving the interest rate. Convincing people to take a one or two year arm and then they could refinance to a fixed rate mortgage, only they would never give them a fixed rate.

The Countrywides made money and the CEO walked away with 88 million dollars bonus
for cheating those people.

Every dollar should be taken away from him and used to pay off as many bad mortgages he sold as possible.

You wrote: "Dont blame the average person who doesnt understand the mortgage"

But that´s exactly the point I was making.

When an adult makes a long-term financial decision and "DOESN´T UNDERSTAND the PAPERWORK" then he should ask a relative, friend or neighbor to EXPLAIN the details. If he doesn´t have anyone who can explain the details to him, he should NOT SIGN the papers.

Yes, the lenders cheated, they should be held accountable for their losses.

And Yes, households who take out a mortgage without understanding the paperwork also carry the responsibility for their decisions.

Americans screwing up the place. When they blame, they blame the whole country for screwing up, not just a couple of people. The Germans were blamed en masse, so why not the Americans?

Europe and Russia are in an even worse bubble. Australia and NZ are pretty bad, too. I don't know about the Asian real estate markets, though some urban areas in China have seen large inflation. Japan is still suffering effects from the fallout of their bubble bursting 15 years ago.

can institute Federal programs to bail out the populace and create indentured servitude to the government.

the elite jumped out windows, after they bought up assets thinking the market couldn't go any lower.

Here's an example this week. Countrywide just went bankrupt. Bank of America scooped up the assetts as you say, but Bank America already has borrowed several billion from the Fed, at special discounted rates of course to tide them over this little problem of the subprime mess. But the subprime mess isn't over and wont be for years. Bank America is heavily invested in subprime paper and credit cards to illegals. Think they are going to pay their mortgages and credit cards?

Bank America charges $35.00 for an overdraft, $17 or $18 a month for a checking account thanks to the lobbyists payoffs to the GOP Congress during Newt's stewardship. Some people are paying 30% or more interest on credit cards.
I should feel sorry for the gougers and greedy-NOT

If the little man is smart he'll get his money in his fist and put it into affordable silver (which is expected to go to $26.00 an ounce) or not so affordable gold: the actual metal not the paper certificate or stock.

By the way, The Patriot Act says if the banks fail and you want to get your money out of the bank if its still open, The Patriot Act says there will be a guardsmen who will accompany you to your safety deposit box who will allow you to take out any documents and paper money, but will confiscate any silver or gold metal. Don;t believe it? Look it up. Google. So if the little man does buy silver or gold metal, or coins he better not put silver or gold coins or bars in his safety deposit box .

are difficult if the country is bankrupt. They can and will and are printing more money, but the more they print the more devalued it is. And the money is just that: paper. It's called fiat money. It's faux money because it's not backed by anything of value. America is not on a gold standard. You cant take that paper dollar and ask for gold in exchange for it. It's just an IOU on fancy paper.

Germany did exactly that. Printed more money until it was worthless. There are the stories of people going to the market literally with a wheel barrow full of paper money to buy one loaf of bread.

That's why the big boys are buying gold in huge amounts .But they're still buying and selling - when gold goes up $5.00 they take the profit,,,so you see it go down just a little bit on the sell, and then everyone runs to buy again. Th

On the other hand some good could come out of this. Everyone thinks that the Federal Reserve is a US government agency. It's not. Sneaky name. It's a private for profit corporation made up of banks and bankers world wide who set the interest rates and collect the monies, many of your household names in the stockmarket are members of this Federal Reserve. They own your house, your car, the tv you bought on credit - and they have your money in the stocks you bought from them.

But this time their greed in fooling people into mortgages they really couldnt afford, has gotten the banks way overextended - they can't cover their losses...cause they lent money on houses that weren't worth the 100 and 110 % mortgages they were giving, and then as the prices fall the houses aren't worth 1/2 of what they appraised at.

Meanwhile a major company Countrywide which issued a huge amount of these subprimes causing this mess, goes bankrupt, but their CEO walks away with an 88 million dollar bonus.

I suspect there are going to some subprime CEO's going to jail.

This might be an opportunity to get rid of the blood sucking Federal Reserve in America if the people have any power and a decent President, and start all over.

they own the country. All your income taxes go directly to paying the interest on the debt they create when loaning money to the government. These are the policy makers -- and the Roundtable, Bilderberg, and CFR find opportunities to capitalize on the misfortunes of others in down capital markets. In fact, the acquisition of CountryWide by B of A illustrates perfectly an opportunity to profit during the recession. There are trillions more dollars sitting on the sidelines waiting to scoop up real estate at a discount as the people suffer foreclosures. This was my point.

Whose fathers had no use for them.

this is also the opportunity to change business as usual in corporate america, wall street and washington d.c. so this kind of corruption can't happen for at least another 60-80 years. There has been little or no effort to find and capture OBL for a reason.

As a Bar Mitzvah present many, many moons ago, I was given a one ounce Krugeraand...I think the price paid for it was around $35 an ounce. I can't even phathom the price increase.

The US economy is in free fall as this country's soaring debt is coming home to roost. The "fiscal responsibility" of this regime has led to the outsourcing not only of jobs but capital as well. Meanwhile this regime continues to borrow like there's no tomorrow to "fix" the economy that will only make it worse. Bailing out the banks by printing more dollars is a disaster as it will weaken the dollar further and the bankruptcies and defaults will continue.

This regime has only has one goal...profit. They saw "governing" as making money or finding ways to make money for their supporters. If you were lucky enough to get on the BFEE welfare system, you're looking real good right now. Those oil and gold stocks have never done better. Now if you didn't profit, too bad...you just weren't "rich" enough.

I don't see a 1929 Depression on the way, but I do see a replay of the late 70s where rising oil prices and the inflation cause by the defecit spending that went to pay for Vietnam drove inflation to 10% and beyond. Right now the banks have little money to lend...and with no lending, business will continue to slow.

Yes, this is gonna be a brutal year...

are afraid to even mention the word recession. They keep asking each other and their guests if we're in a recession yet? And the answer is I dont think so. WE're not in a recession"

These are the guys who caused this mess..and they're going to admit it? not.

But every once in a while a guest broker slips in who is now saying, yes we're in a recession and it looks like we're going into a depression.

When gold goes from $444 to $914, the highest its ever been and breaking the record of $880 30 years ago in a period of (I think) less than 24 months - I don't think there's a lot of confidence that we're not heading for a depression.
These investors can buy real estate for a song now, but very little is being bought. The money is going to safe harbor: gold and silver. Silver by itself which is usually a very slow mover by a few cents, in the last 3 months or so has gone up $3.00

in real terms.

But remember, if you bought that oz of gold for $880 dollars 30 years ago, it would now (30 years later) be worth $914. Some investment.

made her fortune in that period of time when gold went from $35 an ounce (?) to $880 - of course you sell when the country or dollar stabilizes and take your profit. so you just dont make $14 profit.

Even if you bought gold at $440 dollars an ounce 2 years ago - you have now made a $450 dollar profit an ounce. NOw if you bought a million dollars of gold, two years ago, what profit have you made if you sold today ?

On the other hand if I did have a million dollars which I dont, not even close
:cry: I wouldn't be selling cause things still have not hit bottom. The long
downward slide is just starting.

to adjusted for today's inflation,which is kind of irrelevant right now.

A house at the time in a fancy area cost $42/$45,000 and the highest interest rate anyone ever heard of at the time was 18% .

Deregulation and trickle down economy has done wonders for this country.:sarcasm:

In many ways, I consider this country has been in an economic depression since the 80's. Unlike my parents generation that started out rough but prospered in the 50's and 60's, I've seen many in my generation see the quality of their life steadily decrease over the years. We're seeing it now with many health problems that weren't treated or large debts that are a modern day version of servitude. But this depression has always been surrounded by prosperity. Everyone has a computer, TV, car and other creature comforts so the breads and circus always mask the shift of large capital to the richest of the rich and crumbs to the rest. The attitude is that if you didn't make it, it was your fault. If you were born in a poor family, then that is your fate...or if you were suffering, it was your problem. The American dream has long vanished...not that there really ever was one.

The global economy makes a long term depression highly unlikely. While the dollar sinks into oblivion, the Euro benefits and it makes American exports a lot more attractive...thus our own consumer market may not be our savior but that of the German or Chinese or Saudis...but at least that will create jobs.

The massive debt in this country is strangling the economy...and the longer this regime attempts to bail out the banks and water down the problem, the worse it will get.

Cheers...

is we dont manufacture anything, so what and how many are going to have good business from exporting ?

At this moment watching the board, the euro is worth $1.49

interesting that in certain areas of the country it isn't just the little guy
whose houses are being foreclosed. There are 5, 10, 20 million houses being foreclosed.

Interesting though also, a friends son who is on Wall Street just this week bought a $5 million dollar house in the Northeast. He payed CASH - got a great bonus from his boss whose profits were 3 billion dollars last year.

Aside from printed circuit boards, I doubt I have 2 pieces of gold in my home. :shrug:

I believe the price is important because gold is regarded as being more stable than normal, paper currency. Even under the worst circumstances, its status as a precious metal means it still holds value to someone -- which might not be so for the dollar if it were to crash.

That's why people with lots of money sometimes invest some of it into gold. If something bad took place with their money investments, the metal would still hold value. Don't put all of your eggs in one basket, as the old saying goes.

I'm guessing the rising value of gold implies lacking confidence in the standard currency. In other words, many people are seeking to put their money in a place where they know it won't entirely vanish down the economic toilet. Gold is a rare commodity, so the more people who want it, the more expensive it'll become.

times are bad because as you say of the limited supply and its desirability.
India and China and America for that matter with jewelry, gold has other uses, think how expensive a dental cap is - but the kind of gold being bought now is
in bars, or kruggerands or Canadian coins etc. Almost all countries have issued their own gold coins. The Canadian coins even come in 1/10 and 1/20th ounce of gold. So if the dollar or yen or whatever were to collapse,
1/10th of an ounce coin today would be worth $90.35 - enough to buy grocieries
or fill up a gas tank. Actually that coin is smaller than the size of a woman's thumbnail...but it would still be worth more than a dollar in England or any European Union country. Hell , it's worth more than an American US dollar. and that's why the financial companies and money men are dumping their dollars into
gold.

In the previous two centuries, Jews who were always subject to pograms, the burning of their homes, killing raids in Russia, and expulsion from country to country ran around with diamonds hidden somewhere in case they had to suddenly up and leave. Today, since the invention of the yag and fake diamonds which many jewelers cant tell from the real, diamonds wouldn't and aren't considered that kind of safe haven.

In other words, if the dollar were to totally collapse, your neighborhood market or gas station might be willing to take a gold coin, but not a paper dollar. (Watch the older or European guys bite the coin literally to see if its real. Gold is soft, and a mark would be left so if someone were trying to pawn off lead covered with gold leaf, they figure biting the metal would be a tipoff. :)

Gold is needed in manufacturing uses as does silver in products, and of course so do the more expensive metals, platinum and so on which are far beyond a normal workers ability to buy in quantity. But these products and other metal commodities are greatly used in many product manufactures. The only one not doing particularly well now is copper.

That's when big buying is taking place and the gold price is going up 15, /20 dollars.

I'm thinking, because of the time differences between here and Europe and Asia,(6 to 10 or 12 hours) that's when they are buying = what we call after hours buying.

Of course Asia is floating up to their tonsils in American dollars and have no place to dump them except here....so the move to gold I'm thinking, just like our markets moving to gold....safe havens