Calling all HOPELESS, DEFEATIST people !!!

I can't spend my entire day responding to everyone who posts nothing but hopeless, defeatists comments.

I'm not saying you don't have reason to feel that way. We all do.

HOWEVER, rolling over and playing dead and pissing on others who DO have hope and want to DO something about things (no matter how pointless or useless you may feel it is) is not going to change anything. It is going to get us NOWHERE.

Would you please explain why you are interacting at a website where people are primarily discussing issues affecting us all and trying to come up with solutions, or actions - no matter how small - to work toward solutions to the problems?

Do you have a shred of hope deep down inside and that's why you are here?

Really, please examine why you are here. Does it make you feel better to post nothing but how hopeless things are? Maybe if you would take a proactive step towards DOING something - no matter how minuscule it seems - it would empower you and move you away from the defeatist attitude that the Neocons are expecting and continue to gain strength from.

Maybe you HAVE taken actions in the past and didn't see a result and that's why you are hopeless. I get that. If that's the case, then I simply ask you to please not demean others' efforts to try to bring about the change we all so desperately want and need.

This thread by Breeze54 is the perfect example of something everyone can DO. Even if you don't think it will be very effective, if you agree with the point (and I think we all do), DO it anyway.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2695036&mesg_id=2695036

Those of us with fight in us can work on your behalf for only so long...please quit trying to tear our efforts down by demeaning them, especially if you have nothing positive to contribute.

I empathize with the hopeless feeling but I won't give in to it, and I respectfully ask that you not give in to it either.


:hi:

P.S. Warning: Since it's early, I'm gonna keep this kicked myself if no one else does, along with Breeze54's thread noted above.

and thanks for writing the words which were in my head.

:-)

:hi:

You have had your coffee, haven´t you?

What´s against DU policy,

drinking coffee in the morning
or
planning a revolution?

Nice to "meet" you Angela Shelley...have a great day.

I'm off to get more coffee!

B-)

....I'll continue to post whatever I choose to...regardless of how you personally FEEL I should...I thought that had something to do with why we're even HERE in tht first place. :eyes:

you may obviously continue doing whatever floats your boat.

I didn't realize people genuinely enjoy negativity and hopelessness. My bad.

....I had so much hope and optimism when I joined here in 2002...but my hopes of the political process doing much at all have been defeated since I've been a part of DU....as I wrote back in 2004...my cynsism knows no bounds anymore.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=402458

should shut up and get off the forum only the supporters should post then right? Gawd.

that those who feel everything is useless not piss on others who aren't feeling the same way.

Constructive criticism is one thing, abject negativity seems to get us nowhere.

God damn bastards trying to think positively. It is your god given right to do whatever you can to bring everyone down to your personal level of misery.

:eyes:

....that's a reality...sorry my FAITH in politics is in a backslide. :(

but would you mind getting out of my way?

Thanks. :hi:

...regardless of what *party* it's always the same shit...just not as deep sometimes.... guess I'm just a realist with accuarate observation....it's not hopelessness...it's just not blind faith that some DEMOCRAT is gonna make the world a utopia. :think:

....to each their own reality. :hi:

why are you here?

:shrug:

Don't get me wrong...you are certainly welcome here and it's a free country (well, maybe...lol) and all that, but if you admit you have no faith in politics and it's completely futile, what attracts you to read and interact here since it IS a political website?

Again, it's simply a sincere question.

and I can do without that thanks I never have FAITH in a broken system like most.

but eveyone calls upon their faith to get elected while bad mouthing all who oppose them that's X-Tian of then isn't it?

You are just reaching for things now and flat out making shit up.

I could stay here all day "parsing." I changed "faith" to "interest."

I'm waiting for someone to jump in and correct my grammar or something, just for the hell of it!

:hi:

the poster said faith in politics I expanded it.

I don't mean that in a mean way- I just don't get what you are saying at all.

Why do you have INTEREST in something (politics) that you believe is broken and hopeless.

If you have interest, why? If not, why are you here? Maybe the others who feel hopeless have formed a community of sorts, and I TOTALLY would understand that. If that's the case, please tell me.

All I would ask as I've said repeatedly is to consider that not everyone else is hopeless.

And most of us DO want all the facts: the good, bad and ugly. Not everyone, but a lot of us. It's called being informed.

I know the system is broken. I don't dispute that. I simply refuse to allow THEM to win. I'm trying to learn all I can so I can do my part in changing things.

Call me a dumbass, but I'd rather be an informed dumbass trying to change what is broken than an informed person who has no will to fight.

...that should be obvious...regardless if my opinions/feelings aren't in lock-step with the optimistic faith that our broken system will eventually solve the worlds problems with votes....that's not far different thinking than the fundies...the similarities of self-righteous indignation are parallel...voting/praying in the world we live in today are basically the same thing...I'll never be blinded by faith in anything.

thanks for trying to explain your side of things.

:hi:

NH primaries were huge record numbers, mostly for the Dems.

There is lots of good going around- 3 great candidates- The country is fed up.

Please don't give up the fight. No battle worth winning is easy.

:hug:

The internet makes it easy for APDs to release their fear and dislikeof the rest of humanity.

I used to moderate a popular diabetes board and had to quit when I saw too many frightened newly diagnosed people getting what was essentially a "give up, you are going to die from it anyway" GREETING.

Any innovation? "It won't work/the drug companies are pushing another useless treatment/etc."

I see the same thing here. Only one person is on my "ignore" list but I can manage to actively ignore a LOT of people and do.

K&R. I too, will NOT give in. Ever.

I ask because it seems there are two primary camps on DU:

1) Those who support corporatist "dems." These types generally disavow genuine liberal ideas and philosophy as being, as the right dictates, far left, or even "loony left," and of course likewise disavow the notion of conspiracy i.e. a rigged political system which is the shadow cast over society by big business, relegating the populace to the status of passive spectators who don't have an actual hand in determining substantive economic policies.

2) Those whose views are quite antithetical to the above. They realize that any "electable" dem candidate isn't going to be {as far as intent/policy} very far removed from the aims of the current bunch of fascists running the show. This in itself brings into question many aspects of the current state of our failed democracy, and it's the nuts and bolts of this that, in my estimation, flies well below the radar for many in camp #1. Hence when confronted by such issues, there is a strong sense to either demonize those who shed light on them, usually by means of shooting the messenger. Or such things are flat out ignored.

For instance, let's say someone starts a thread re national I.D. cards, and it receives maybe one or two responses, and very few views. As where if someone starts a thread involving a topic that is based around trivial emotional responses, hundreds of people chime in ...yet, which has greater significance for our crumbling democracy?

Auh!...but there's the catch, see? For the majority of posters, pointing that obvious fact out makes you a Negative Nancy i.e. "defeatist" ....or does it? Not in my estimation, but for people whose mindset is determined by mainstream cultural programming....see what I'm getting at?

from getting worse (for that, it helps to be a parent) before we can hope to make any progress.

I respect you, but I respect those that want to move forward a little bit, too. I don't deny there are those in both camps who are steadfast, but there's enough negativity from both of them to poison us all. I see the need to push forward even a little bit. I must--my son was born before the GWB disease and I don't want him to get it.

Neither camp has the duty or the right to rain on either's parade.

Truth seekers of all walks of life. A telltale sign, and this applies to many forums, not just DU, is the venomous attacks launched at anyone who dares bring up a controversial topic.

What makes it controversial? It's not supported by the mainstream establishment ... which serves up big heap dose of lie after lie. {why do you keep believing them then?}

So, again, in keeping with the above mentioned model, I tend to see a lot of VERY negative reactions by camp #1 against those in camp #2.

It's very important to always gage the posters intent. I've seen countless posts by people who have genuine questions and concerns over macro issues that are met with the most nasty, mean spirited replies by Official Conspiracy Deniers: every forum has these types who crusade there - they are easy to spot due to the smug, hateful inflection within their words/attack.

Again, it's the intent. I may disagree with one controversial/conspiratorial view or another, but if it stems from someone's real concern, I see the typical camp #1 poster's hostile, condescending, name-calling reaction to it as far more negative, because their intent shows that they're actually not on the side of seeking the truth, and are instead far more concerned with cutting and smearing others, usually from a phony "I'm so reasonable and level headed" business-as-usual position.

I agree with what you're saying.

Perhaps that's what I'm questioning about posters who seem to ONLY post blanket statements to the effect of "give it up, it's all too corrupt and broken, it's futile" - without any more specific information.

But, would you not agree that what one REALISTIC, wide awake person sees as hopeless and futile, another equally REALISTIC, wide awake person may feel is a worthy cause to try to change?

Why be so arrogant (not saying you) to tell the other person who is LISTENING to the facts, as dismal as they may be, that you're an idealistic idiot if you think you can do something.

What purpose does that serve?

Giving in to the futility will get us nowhere. You must admit that.

Why not give some people enough credit to believe that they ARE paying attention to all the informative, albeit negative, information people are posting yet they STILL have the will to try to fight it?

Wanting to fight doesn't equate to being uninformed.

You can identify many social/psychological variables that come into play when attempting to understand how/why your society has decayed. A major determinant here is the systematic aim of creating an obedient, anti-intellectual, consumption-based populace that simultaneously perceives itself to be the opposite of what it is. There have been many studies in this area for decades, yet for the average American, just saying that sentence and raising the issue will provoke aeons of denial and "fuck you!" and so forth. The corporate culture has lessened intellectual curiosity and attention spans, and has intentionally demoralized the culture because it's easy to make money on people trapped {of their own choice in many instances} within these systems, in so many ways. The end result is what America is now, and the corporate masters are realizing it's not an infinite source. In other words, either an empire, or a republic. Both won't work together for long, which explains many of our govt's actions/policies over the past eight yrs.

that lends to my belief that we indeed must have a revolution of sorts.

It's also one of the reasons why I support Edwards and admire Dennis so much. Now, believe me, I know they are not perfect - none of them are - but I do believe that, for the reasons you shared, a fight is in order. We don't stand a chance of (intellectually) surviving given the corporatocracy currently in place.

Have a good day, Echo...thanks for the civil, reasoned interaction. :hi:

Thank You... I am one of those who has many concerns about the state this country is in.

although I realize both are very subjective.

What I don't understand, and the reason for my post, are comments with NOTHING constructive whatsoever, simply saying in essence, "It's futile. Give it up."

Now, I know the emotional thing drives some of you crazy. I think we all agree the issues are more important, rather than personality contests, for example. But we are emotional animals and that plays into how we respond to issues.

Blanket statements of futility, with no suggestions of how to move forward or approach the existing problems, seem to serve no purpose, IMHO.

And if one sees only hopelessless with no interest in tackling the problems, I always wonder why they are here.

I'm not judging the hopelessness - we all see how easy it is to be hopeless - I'm QUESTIONING why some post pure negativity, often with the express intent to demean others' efforts, without including something constructive with regard to the problem/issue being discussed.

but I'd rather be an informed dumbass trying to change what is broken than an informed person who has no will to fight.

And I do appreciate knowing all the hurdles and battles standing in the way of change - again, I choose to be informed.

That pretty much sums it up for me. Just me, just my opinion.

If we are marching into the pits of despair, I'd rather do it with a dumbass that thinks we might be able to make a turn before we get there than one who's hell bent on getting there ASAP.

Maybe it's just me. :shrug:

:applause:

Woo-hoo!!! :rofl:

Have a good day, blondeatlast. :hi:

One doesn't know what one is up against without looking at it all.

Another problem though is informed, uninformed, versus disinformed.

Lots of varied perspectives and agendas to wade through, but the best source of getting in-depth information if one takes the time to seek it out, follow links, etc.

:hi:

don't 'give in' to feelings of hopelessness, occasionally. I would suggest...in order to retain your positive outlook...that you refrain from reading anything regarding the election systems used through-out the country. You might also want to refrain from reading any news stories that have not been filtered through, and watered down by the US Government. Have a great day! Please Ignore.

I certainly DO give in to feelings of hopelessness periodically. If you read what I wrote, I stated that I completely understand the reasons for the hopeless feelings. Most of us do.

Believe me, I think it would take someone without emotion whatsoever to spend time here and NOT get depressed and feel life is worthless at times.

That's when we need a break. Not from TRUTH, but a break from the intensity of it all.

The reason for the thread is out of my sincere desire to understand why those who post nothing but vague "futile" threads (without anything constructive to go along with it) are determined to label those who do have hope as uninformed idiots.

As I've said elsewhere here, it is my opinion that one can be informed yet still have the will to fight.

Hopeful and resolute do not always translate to uninformed or disinformed.


edited for clarity

Kudos to you bro... very well stated.

and, not that it matters, but I'm a she. LOL.

Interesting that I've had several "bro" comments though. I always thought I wrote in too much of a touchy-feely way that irritates the shit out of some people to ever be considered a bro.

So, I'll take "bro" as a compliment for sure!!!

:bounce:

:hi:

It must be because I am just waking up, but I meant that post for echo in light. I am glad however that you came to agree with him/her. I share his feeling and insights on this topic. I do not mean to piss on your parade, I am just very frustrated with the state things are in.

I just edited the post above...

Thanks.

LTH

I will point out that I requested things of you (other than directing those interested to follow the link to the other thread), and asking you to please explain where you're coming from. The following three questions/comments are from my OP:


1. "Would you please explain why you are interacting at a website where people are primarily discussing issues affecting us all and trying to come up with solutions, or actions - no matter how small - to work toward solutions to the problems?"

2. "I simply ask you to please not demean others' efforts to try to bring about the change we all so desperately want and need."

3. "I empathize with the hopeless feeling but I won't give in to it, and I respectfully ask that you not give in to it either."



edited for stupid "shorthand" software snafu! Sorry to confuse...lol

but I think it was polite of you to clarify.

Some people interact in forums impolitely because they don´t have any other place to do so.

:-)