Too many questions not answered. Too little time left to fix the party.

Too many things need to be fixed. There really is not time.

I fear we are heading toward a comfort level with a one party system in which everything is (I hate this word)...bipartisan. The ones who need to fix these things are too content with the way things have been. It is easier that way for them. Far easier to just let the power brokers in the party make the decisions in the smoke-filled rooms than to deal with a bunch of rag tag Johnny-come-latelys who are way too ideological.

The Iraq War was the catalyst, only then they did not really understand that. We did something so heinous that many could not take it in...and most of our party did not speak up. We invaded a country that was no threat to us, bombed its cities right out in the open on TV.

We proudly called it Shock and Awe. Our leaders in both parties were quite proud of our power on display. Now it is starting to enter their minds that there will be no real turning back...that there is too much anger and outrage among what they call the grassroots, the activists..the people.

Nothing is changing.

We are probably not going to leave Iraq.

Senator Dodd is starting to get backlash in the Senate already for his stance on the FISA immunity. They are going public with it. He stood for what was right, and his own party is lecturing him.

Nancy Pelosi won't let Florida investigators investigate Mark Foley. They are begging for access to his computers, as they suspect more than just emails. Why?

Nothing has been done on the bankruptcy bill about changing the parts which would allow the ill, disabled, elderly to lose their homes.

Looks like our party won't fight Mike McConnell on monitoring the internet...all of it.

The NH phone jamming was going on to 6 years ago. Little time has been served, not much has been said about it.

We have a Supreme Court Justice who thinks the government is a tool for the vengeance of God.

In 2003 one of our candidates said he wanted to know what so many Democrats were doing supporting Bush's unilateral war in Iraq. He also wanted to know other things as well, like why Democrats were not standing up for health care, like why they were supporting Bush's tax cuts for the rich during war time.

McJoan of Daily Kos posted at the New West Politics blog yesterday. She posted a few questions of her own.



She lists many more.

McJoan is right. We don't have the answers. Very little has been fixed. There is too much of the same old, same old.

We just may not have time to get things fixed. The establishment which is quite comfortable with the corporations is not going to be comfortable with change. They don't seem to pay attention to our calls, our emails, our activism on many issues.

I don't know the answer. I thought I did a few years ago, but now I am not very sure.

That is one big reason that I'm voting for Kucinich. The Greens have also consistently supported publicly funded elections. It's the only way we're going to get our government out of the hands of the corporations, take away the money they use to buy the elections. Making our votes the factor that decides the election, not corporate money.

We could probably figure out some fair way of setting that bar. Perhaps something similar to an initiative petition, X percentage of voters' signature from each state.

Set it up like Britain, each candidate gets X amount of money, X amount of free airtime(after all, it is the public airwaves, and can only run their campaign for X number of months.

Hell of a lot better than let our candidates be selected by GE and such.

That is a pretty low bar. How low do we go? Before I support an idea I need to think it out. These are the problems I see.

How do you keep every street corner politician for getting funds?

How do you keep every facebook/myplace/youtube...etc.//// from getting funds?

Hell, getting the tally to get something on the ballot in one state is a challenge. Having to get quantities of signatures in every state would weed out a lot of people right there.

As far as the Greens and Kucinich go, yeah, I'd let them run. Part of our problem is that we have a real shortage of diverse voices in politics.

I have worked the polls for 26 years and have seen The Greens, The Reform Party and The Natural Law Party fail a 5% requirement in Ohio. You have to have 5% every primary election.

That is a damn low bar. Anything under that is digging a ditch and setting the bar in it.

I do not need my tax dollars going to every soapbox politician and the cost of the investigations and prosecutions that would follow. I could see "perpetual candidate" being a career.

I need a better thought out plan.

people who had heard of him (most had not, since he was under a media blackout) was, "I love his ideas, but he can't win." They knew that the deck was stacked in favor of the corporate-controlled candidates.

Even so, thanks to a group of dedicated volunteers who managed to circumvent the media blackout, DK won 17% statewide in Minnesota, 27% in the Twin Cities.

If you are an honest observer of the current election cycle and not a DLC, you have undoubtedly noticed that since early last year, the media have been acting as if there are only two Democratic candidates. MONTHS before the Iowa caucuses, the well-coached DLC choir on this board was insisting that Hillary and Obama were getting all this media attention because they were the only "serious" candidates.

Defined how?

Defined by corporate contributions and media attention, a self-reinforcing cycle if I ever saw one.

Dennis Kucinich is not some crank living in a boarded-up house with barbed wire surrounding his yard and underfed Rottweilers in the basement. He is a multi-term Congressman with high approval ratings in his district. That alone should be enough to qualify him for the preliminary rounds.

As for the Greens, they, unlike most third parties, have actually won some local and state elections. They, too, deserve their chance to be heard on the same basis as the Establishment parties.

Both parties need to be challenged to reassess their current warped conventional wisdom. The Dems need to be challenged (by the Greens and Socialists) to recover their old focus on making life better for the working class and poor. The Republicans need to be challenged (by the Libertarians) to recover their advocacy of civil liberties.

Both parties need to be challenged to wean themselves away from automatically pouring money down the corrupt rat hole that is the Pentagon and calling it "a strong defense."

When giving a platform, third parties get the voters thinking and provide a needed challenge that keeps the major parties honest and outward looking instead of getting stuck in an echo chamber full of K Street lobbyists and old pols.

...with the neocon agenda. I don't know why people have such difficulty seeing this. The grassroots seems willingly blinkered. They don't want to face any truths that get uncomfortably close to Nader's 2000 pronouncement that the dem and republican parties serve the same master. Problem is, they do to a large degree.

:toast:

when he began his public services, and he's right now. Saw a docu about him recently.

There is just no way to excuse it.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/33

Just like the Germans of the 1930s. No one wants to see it, no one wants to acknowledge it because no one wants to do anything about it. We just want to cling to what little "good times" we have left.

Which, like Germany of the 1930s, ENSURES it will HAPPEN.

Well, I got news for you, madfloridian (well, it probably isn't news to you, but it is to 65% of DUers and 99.5% of the nation at large, I would guess), and that is that it's already in motion. It is waaaaaay too far gone to stop it. Essentially the nation's mind has been blanked and reprogrammed. There is no history. There is no lies, no truth, just the person with the loudest media trumpet.

And now, it has been allowed to metastasize with so little opposition, EVEN NOW (which is what your post is all about), that the only alternative is to "ride this this to the end" and let the pustule burst.

Like Germany in the 1930s, if we resist, it will burst, and if we cower it will burst. The only thing we can do is stand and be true in the end.

I am not advocating giving up or accepting it or not voting or anything like that, but be aware of the reality of the situation. Those things are all secondary to the storm brewing and what will happen when it bursts.

The only alternative is the "peace" tyranny and the complacency of the willingly enslaved.

and they don't want to be bothered. I did not feel that way until after we took Congress back. The lack of fight against the Bush machine really shook me, and I found myself having spells of apathy.

The media does its job well. It has changed the topic from Iraq to the economy...shutting out Iraq. It has mindless stuff that encourages apathy. People work hard, come home tired, and they don't mind mindless.

in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. I still believe in them, but without principled defenders, they are just what Der Bushler said they were, "just damned pieces of of paper".

I allowed myself to have brief hope after Nov. 2006, not because I thought it was likely, but because I WANTED to have hope. Like a thirsty man in a desert lusting after that cool oasis that is just a mirage, I wanted it so much to be true.

I used to say, in the months before Nov. 2006, that my worst nightmare was that the Democrats would win both houses and nothing would change.

Welcome to our worst nightmare. I cannot say that it was a surprise, except that it was a convincing simulation of one because I pushed my logic and my knowledge of recent history away in favor of that "cool glass of water" that was hope in a desert of hopelessness.

But I KNEW. Who could have looked at the behavior of the Democrats from 2000-2006, really from 1986 where they declined to impeach Reagan "because he was too popular" and two-thirds of the country would have been against it, when there were REAL CRIMES, treason or near-treason, afoot, fast-forward to 1998 when the Bushies forced us all to endure an impeachment with the roles entirely reversed and two-thirds of the country against THEM...and all this for a trumped-up bullshit charge in which more felonies were committed by the Bushies maneuvering Clinton into the "perjury trap" than Clinton made in perjuring himself the way hundreds of men do in Divorce Court every day?

Who could have seen all of that and not noticed a pattern? I averted my eyes in exchange for three or four months of hope.

Even now. We KNOW that Edwards will not be allowed to win, and if he somehow does and makes good on his FDR-like promises, they will Kennedy or Wellstone his ass and weep their crocodile tears. And yet, I persist in false hope because the only other option is (COMMENT REDACTED).

Focus on the horse race, just like the Bushies want. Ignore the stampede of 8000-pound elephants in the room, like a voting system that Hitler or Stalin would have LOVED to have, or the truth of Naomi Wolf or Naomi Klein or any of it.

And look at us. If we had anything of the Founding Fathers in us, we would have been fighting and risking and sacrificing, at the very least with National Strikes...but we don't. Oh, we all have our rationalizations, but like everyone else, we just want to be undisturbed for a little while longer.

And that is the greatest ally of a Bush, a Hitler, a Stalin, and that is why they always win, at least for a few years and often, like the Chinese Communists (now embracing the Bushie form of government) or the Caesars, for much longer.

And even now, at this late date, 99.5% do not see it, would not see it until something effected them personally, because they don't want to. It would disturb their chill. And believe you me (and I am no different from anyone else in this regard) people find it much easier to grovel as a slave if only they can be left alone to pretend that they are not slaves. In our case, we have an entire multi-billion dollar propaganda edifice to soothe our slavish selves with, pretending we are free.

Nobody wants to challenge this but nobody is asking WHY.
Things WILL have to get a lot worse before they get better because of the rampant apathy.
This country WILL return to Populism...but not before a full blown Depression, stripping of Civil Rights,etc.
I don't know what is worse...KNOWING there is a monster under the bed and trying to get everyone else to see it or refusing to see it until it attacks you when you least expect.
It is easier for some to see the monster in THEIR party, while at the same time easily supporting the monsters in OUR party.
My problem is is that I see BOTH monsters and it scares the Hell out of me.
I am almost done warning folks who refuse to open their eyes because I truly think we are running out of time. We are MONTHS away from the worst we thought could ever happen. It's time for me to gather and take care of me and mine.

Yes the growing movement in American politics is bipartisan... huh?

If you want to ask me a question or make a comment, why don't you make it clear and polite.

We just experienced one the most partisan presidents in history. Last year we had the most obstructionist minority in congressional history. The growing trend for the last 35-40 years is towards heavily partisan political parties. The liberal wing of the republican party is basically gone, ditto for the conservative side of the democratic party. I simple can't get past that line in your post to digest anything else you had to say.

The day after all the pundits went on TV to say we needed to be bipartisan and work together for change.

You don't have to read my post at all. Just skip it if it bothers you.

I think the day we won they decided not to fight, to go along and get along for the common good of corporations.

The party leaders are ignoring that wing. They are striving for oneness with the extremists Republicans, I fear.

this is the reality free zone.

And they started the lecturing about not being partisan. Six hate filled years, and we are all supposed to just fit in and not make waves.

Your reality zone is that of the DLC.

Here you go. All the nice platitudes.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1602

""The bloggers and online donors represent an important resource for the party, but they are not representative of the majority you need to win elections," said Steve Elmendorf, a Democratic lobbyist who advised Kerry's 2004 presidential campaign.

"The trick will be to harness their energy and their money without looking like you are a captive of the activist left."

Our Democratic Leaderership have so thoroughly bought into the Bushie False Reality Bubble, and given it is a circular self-referential multi-billion dollar edifice allowed to cement in place for two decades and more with no resistance, maybe it is now Conventional Wisdom writ large, just The Hologram...The Matrix, after all.

Elmendorf speaks the truth and we are betrayed by the Democratic Leadership. Hell, we have been betrayed by them for quite some time, obviously. Our Democratic Leaders tookthe path of least resistance, to the Corporate Coffers, and thus abandoned the playing field, which allowed this to happen. They didn't even resist the imposition of Goebbels v2.0 across the entire media specturm because they were afraid of looking like a "captive of the activist left".

Funny thing is, if this wasn't an emergency situation with the very soul of America at stake, my actual beliefs and positions would probably place me firmly in the DLC camp. But I knew something was wrong when I didn't move my positions, but the Democratic Party moved to the right of me. That's not right. As a meat-eating, gun-toting "conservative" liberal who is distrustful of both sides, the Democrats should be somewhat firmly on my Left.

Instead we have a Democratic Party which now closely resembles the wet dream of the Watergate conpsirators, and that is no coincidence. We have a Matrix in which the Democrats are forced by the Bushie False Reality Bubble, and our Leadership's terror of taking it on and smashing right through it's side (which is the ONLY way to take it on, at this late date), to run away from it's core principles, and it's base, while the Bushies stoke and enflame theirs at every turn.

They don't work.

IMG]

So clever, so funny. It shows such good taste.

and you have nothing to defend it with but snark.

It is killing us.

Snark and personal attacks are all they have.

Nothing gets through.

The poster I initially responded to makes valid points. Were they "responded" to?

No.

Why is that?

Could it be that they blow a hole in the foundation of our OP's argument?


And I'm not about to discuss "reality" with someone who posts over at PI.

That means you.

the people who believe their PR.

Then there's the reality experienced by us everyday people on the ground. I'm not ashamed to have chosen the latter nor to post on other sites that allow you to talk freely about this reality.

I swung a sledgehammer for my living! You want reality? You want "everyday people"?

"Elitism" is the back slapping, I'm so smart, I'm so pure, I've got all the answers to save the world bullshit practiced by the folks you hang with over there.

to throw their lot with them and to avoid looking too closely at the machinations behind the media-generated curtain.

If you really are a working class guy, then the DLC is NOT your friend.

or the nonsense MF is pushing about how the party is "broken".

It is this kind of endless navel gazing by the left that turns everyday people away from the Democratic Party. That and the everpresent "I know better than you" attitude. Especially since the left seems to spend most of it's time stepping on it's own dick with this shrill and constant "it's the end of the world, we're doomed, it's too late, etc, etc, garbage - as exemplified by the OP of this thread.

(not all of them ignoramuses by any means) are either turned off by the unwillingness of the two parties to tackle the nation's problems or feel that politics has no relevance to their lives, since their lives stay the same no matter who is in charge.

They may not CALL it the DLC, but it is the actions of the DLC (buddying up to Reagan's initiatives, pushing NAFTA, welfare "reform" and the banktruptcy bill, etc. while emphasizing behavioral issues and identity politics) that have turned the Democratic Party from the default party of the working class to the party that Limbaugh and others can caricature with impunity as "limousine liberals."

nothing else will work.

and the majority of the american people are still far too comfortable in their lives to worry about such nonsense.

so get used to the status quo.

"I watched "So Goes the Nation" this week. It was heartbreaking, and I did not agree with so much of it. But I did agree with Ken Mehlman surprisingly. I will paraphrase him. He said he could not remember when an "out" party had gotten voted "in" unless they put forth ideas that the "in" party did not.

In the film George Bush kept saying over and over...that we may not agree with him but we knew where he stood. He did not care if we agreed. It did not matter. He was doing his thing to win.

I think we were not partisan enough. I think our ideas and policies were far better for the country than were those of the "in" group. But I do not think we got them across powerfully enough. We were trying to appeal to their base far too much, while they were working quietly getting out "more" of their base."

Unity and bipartisanship are just ways to keep the power in the GOP hands.

Working together for common good is one thing. Working with the other side when their goals are not for the good of the people is another thing entirely.

> supporting an invasion that is in itself a war crime by the standards set forth in the Nuremberg Trials.

> not voting down (which we have the majority to do) Republicanite initiatives that destroy our civil liberties

> voting for bills that harm the most vulnerable members of society

> approving the appointment of Bush appointees with unsavory records (e.g. Negroponte) or wacky ideologies

At best, the politicians promise to tinker with a system whose main purpose is to guarantee the status-quo despite their platitudes about "change".

just a quick glance. Needs further discussion, and reading by me :)

Thanks, gave it an R earlier.

Too much for me. I can not believe that Shimon Peres thinks so highly of Bush. I must be naive.



Rahm with POTUS all day, Peres think Bush has character...:puke:

http://www.mediabistro.com/fishbowlDC/west_wing_reportage/this_week_in_pool_reports_74902.asp

"No, Mr. President, we'll make sure the Dems don't rock the boat too much."

At least that's what I imagine, given Rahm Emanuel's behavior and statements in the past.

How unified can we be? He is not our voice. Not by a long shot.

Would recommend if I could.