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Dennis Kucinich - A Kitty Genovese for Our Time

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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 12:35 PM
Original message
Dennis Kucinich - A Kitty Genovese for Our Time
Edited on Thu Jan-17-08 12:41 PM by arendt
Kitty Genovese (July 7, 1935— March 13, 1964)...was a New York City woman who was stabbed to death near her home in the Kew Gardens section of Queens, New York. The circumstances of her murder and the apparent reaction of her neighbors... prompted investigation into the psychological phenomenon that became known as the bystander effect...

..the public view of the story crystallized around a quote...from an unidentified neighbor who saw part of the attack but deliberated, before finally getting another neighbor to call the police: "I didn't want to get involved." Other reports...stated that one man turned up his radio so that he would not hear Genovese's screams...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitty_genovese

I am ashamed of myself. The media is mugging Dennis Kucinich to death, but I am a bystander. Its not that I can't hear him fighting his assailant with impeachment resolutions and recounts. Its not that I don't think the Constitution and the political process are being trampled on. Its not that "I was not a progressive, so I did nothing". (Niemoller reference).

In November, I wrote:

What you need to know is that the middle and working classes have lost an organized national leadership. We are reduced to voting for individual candidates on their individual merits. And for me, merit is telling the truth about what is really happening in America."


If I really meant that, I should be out there screaming for justice, or at least sending money to Dennis for the NH recount and writing poison pen letters to NBC. But, I'm not.

The only answer I can find is that I simply don't think the man's approach has a chance. Its clear to me that the system is so corrupt that someone like Dennis is going to get his head beaten in, and then people will step over his corpse - even fellow Democratic candidates who should stand up for him. If an un-bought Democrat became president, he ought to make Dennis Attorney General. But, that is another fantasy.

If you want to know why even the best of those candidates is silent, you have to at least acknowledge that the Military-Intelligence-Prison-Media Complex has way too much power in this country. But, that elephant in the living room is too big to tackle in an essay. So, I will let someone with far better credentials than me give an anecdotal explanation of our Constitutional-bystander-ism.

Roger Morris is a former foreign service officer and has also served on Presidents Lyndon Johnson’s and Richard Nixon’s National Security Council senior staff. He resigned, however, over the invasion of Cambodia. In a July 7, 2007 interview with Scoop, he said:

"It’s a huge shadow world. And the reason it’s come into existence is that it’s occupied a vacuum. There’s no one on the other side to even look at it. The average Congressman, even a newly empowered Democratic committee chairman in the House or the Senate, looks at all of this with a sense of being overwhelmed and not even knowing where to begin, so massive is the enormity they face.

I remember an old movie...called Sands of Iwo Jima with John Wayne. Very famous movie...And at one point the nervous young Marines are gathered around John Wayne on the ship. This is the night before they land the next day and they say: Gee Sarge, what have the Japanese got out on that island out there? And he says: Well I don’t know boys, but they’ve had 40 years to put it there. And the camera pans back to these worried faces.

It makes the point that we always have to remember about the National Security Establishment. This thing hasn’t happened overnight. It didn’t just happen in the George W. Bush administration. This is a product of a very long, convoluted, very well financed, in some respects well planned and in other respects entirely spontaneous and almost random development of a process which is now HUGE. It’s now vast.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0707/S00058.htm


In light of the above, I must say I have a great deal of respect for Rep. Kucinich. He fights like there is no tomorrow (which there isn't). He knows what he is up against, and he doesn't flinch. His fundamental appeal is that he tells the truth, when the whole media and campaign environment is a shitstorm of disinformation, manipulation, warmongering, and fundamentalims of all sorts. Some days, I want to join him in an honorable suicidal charge into the machine guns. But, for now, I have too much to lose and the probability of success is too low to risk everything.

However, at the rate this country is going, I will be up for that charge sooner than I had hoped. In the words of Mike Whitney, America has become "a culture of violence and corruption". I leave you with words that even Dennis might hesitate to say, not because they are false, but because they are an indictment of our whole country:

The United States is not a beacon of hope or a light unto the world. It is a menace and a growing threat to survival on earth. America's political and military belligerence is just an extension of a domineering economic system which serves the sole interests of the rich and powerful.

- Mike Whitney


God Bless Dennis Kucinich, and FSM help me, for I am weak.

(Note: I have not endorsed any Democratic candidate to date, and I am not a supporter of DK.)
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Vilis Veritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. Whitney leaves out the fact that the Rich and the powerful
are not just Americans...

Therefore, I submit that the US is a beacon for hope...and when I say US I mean 'We the people' of all nations.

Peace.

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RevolutionToday Donating Member (50 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
2. The Comparison Is Pretty Off The Wall Don't You Think?
Can't you think of a more appropiate analogy?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
goodgd_yall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #2
49. I'm thinking the same thing
A brutally murdered woman whose cries were ignored = a candidate being ignored???
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calico1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
4. You make some good points, but comparing him to
Kitty Genovese?

Are you saying that what has happened to Kucinch is equal to being brutally murdered at a young age? I don't think so.
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. I am saying that part of our political process is being mugged and we are bystanding.
Our Constitution is being "brutally murdered at a young age".

I keep forgetting, "DUers don't do nuance." Can't be too subtle, can't bring in something from too far afield - even if its relevant.

It figures everyone would assume the LITERAL comparison, instead of the METAPHORICAL one.

arendt
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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. LOL, a brutal murder analogy is nuance? on what planet is that?
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #12
24. I got it. It was not difficult.
Arndt was not talking about Kitty Genovese.

K&R
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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. Doh! Omigod, I thought he was LITERALLY talking about MURDERING KUCINCH...
You guys are so super smart and all subtle liek. Just WOW!
I am blinded by the brilliance in this thread truly some deep thinking going on.
LOL. what are you, his TA? LOL... what a bunch of wankers!
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goodgd_yall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #7
50. Sorry, but as a woman
Edited on Thu Jan-17-08 07:26 PM by goodgd_yall
It's kind of like being a Jew and hearing the Holocaust used as an analogy for a cattle roundup. I find it very insensitive.
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #50
58. Could you unpack "insensitive"? As I said below (#39, #43)...
Edited on Thu Jan-17-08 08:28 PM by arendt
...there is a whole lot of death happening all over the world because we do not heed the calls for help from Kucinich.

What, please, is insensitive with tying the tragic death of one woman to the tragic beating our Constitution and people all over the world are taking because we don't help? I have treated Ms. Genovese and her sad death with respect. I have tried to use her tragic death to prevent further, similar tragedy - something *I* think she would approve of, if she could.

Where does it say that your being a women gives you editorial control over the life story of every other woman ever born? Don't I, as a law abiding citizen of this country, get to use her story to educate other people as to the hazards of "not wanting to get involved"?

Second, YOUR analogy IS insensitive; and it has NOTHING to do with my analogy. Your analogy is nothing but 15 words of flame bait. My article has some nuance, which you chose to ignore.

arendt

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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. I am saying that we are cowering while one of our own is being politically knifed. n/t
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rAVES Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. Its much more insidious than that...
Edited on Thu Jan-17-08 01:28 PM by rAVES
Hillary/Obama supporters (not all) don't just stand by, they actively attack Dennis, call him irrelevant.. and Grandstander.. SELFISH!!! The actual campaigns are happy also He's not up there with them, showing them up for the flip flopping say anything to get power folks that they are.

A man who literally ruined his own career, put his own life on the line to save consumers money, SELFISH!

Dennis is a smart guy, he could easily have taken the political low road like the Clintons and the Obama and others and gotten power, but he did not. He takes principled stands against things in which he believes.. this makes him irrelevant?

makes me want to vomit when I read that shit about him here.

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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. And Kucinich supporters never attack Clinton or Obama?
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rAVES Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Come back to me when they are out there putting their careers on the line in the name of democracy
instead of being corporate toadys...

yawn.. cry me a dam river.
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wintersoulja Donating Member (390 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #15
32. yep
almost a caesarian section at work.


oh.
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
6. Kucinich is a hero
for taking a stand and sticking to it. His actions throw light on the shadows of corporate deceit and manipulation.
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FREEWILL56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #6
75. I whole heartedly agree. This really isn't about Kucinich people,
Edited on Fri Jan-18-08 12:03 AM by FREEWILL56
but most seem to lack the ability to grasp what is going on right in front of them. This stuff didn't just all of a sudden only start happening to DK and it is what is happening in our country in general. For DK to point these things out he made himself not only a hero for tackling it, but also bacame a target of it all.
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
8. One idea that caught my eye in this information, was the
psychology of not wanting to get involved.....It is pervasive across all economic neighborhoods, working environments.
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Ding. Ding. Ding. We have someone who gets it! Thank you. n/t
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #8
29. Arendt's analogy is SPOT ON.
Americans stand by and turn up the volume on whatever it is they're listening to, to drown out the screams of their dying country. DK represents that resistance to murder and you IGNORE HIM or even CHEER when he is gagged.

Rep. Wexler has posted a petition which requires NO MORE than the click of a mouse to participate. Americans can't even do THAT.

I COMPLETELY SUPPORT Arendt as I have supported Al Gore in HIS decisions. FUGGEDABOUDDIT! DK has stuck his neck out in sticking to the Constitution and calling out the real issues. 2% support that. You simply IGNORE his screams as he's attacked and heap insult on him.

In the end you WILL REAP what you've sowed. Good Luck with it.
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #29
36. Oh, right, Wexler. I signed that when it was under 100k sigs. What do I do now?
I'm feeling ashamed again.

----

Good to hear from you, Karenina.

arendt
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #29
83. no, we ALL will reap what they have sown. nt
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MuseRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
11. Well done!
Edited on Thu Jan-17-08 01:06 PM by MuseRider
I LIKE this. It is part of something I have been trying to say but I can't articulate it that well.

It's OK, some of us are on the suicidal front lines, we will need back up eventually. :) (as if a smilie is really appropriate here) When my kids left home and became self sufficient I decided that it was my time to take the plunge. What will be will be kind of. You are not weak, you are considerate of the circumstances.

I honestly have nothing else. I see little hope until people hurt badly and are forced by circumstance to pay attention to what it is exactly that is hurting them. Now it seems it is something so amorphous that they can't even begin to consider it. It will happen eventually. I just hope it is not too late, if it isn't already. We can always hope for human nature to rear it's ugly head and find the oogy boogy enemy that is hurting them. Always ALWAYS have an enemy. :eyes:

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NorthCarolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
13. Wonderful Post
I "feel your pain".
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
14. K&R.... I got the nuance...and metaphor... Spot on...
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rAVES Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
16. k&r
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
17. To listen to Dennis would require people to give up the
illusions that have been planted in them since childhood, that "America is the greatest country in the world," that America is "a force for good in the world," that "America is the land of opportunity where anyone can become a millionaire," that "no other country has been more generous in giving foreign aid," that "our only aim is to spread democracy and peace, and we only make 'mistakes,' never do something bad deliberately."

Acknowledging that your country has gone over to the dark side and is veering ever farther from its professed ideals is a horribly difficult step to take.
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Desertrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #17
41. But once that step is taken, you can't go back.....
and you are in uncertain territory indeed.



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Vilis Veritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
19. I thought you explained the 'constitutional-by-standerism'
Edited on Thu Jan-17-08 01:55 PM by saddlesore
all too well and very succinctly.

But, for now, I have too much to lose and the probability of success is too low to risk everything.


Peace.


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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. As someone with middle-class finances, I don't have the reserves needed to withstand...
all the crap they can throw at activists: lawsuits, smear campaigns, harrassment by fringe lunatics directed to your door by the RW blogosphere, criminal records, loss of international travel. Any or all of which can lead to loss of your job and/or house.

To be an activist, you need to be either very rich or living a Nader-like monastic existence. I'm neither. So, I do what I can; and I watch the odds of absolute Constitutional and/or economic meltdown carefully. If it gets to the point where I'm going to be sacrificed no matter what I do, then I stop being a bystander.

arendt
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Vilis Veritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Nor do I...
Your posts are greatly appreciated, I can not tell how many times I have read one and then spent the next hour scouring web resources for more information.
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Thanks. I always try to educate; and I appreciate posts that educate me. The web is awesome...
it is our only powerful weapon. I will use it until they stop me or lockdown the web.

arendt
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bean fidhleir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #21
30. You're saying what Pastor Niemöller said
"When they got rid of the Communists,
I said nothing,
for after all the Communists were atheists and enemies of the Church.

And when they took away the homosexuals, the disabled, and other "incurables"
I felt uneasy and ashamed,
but I still said nothing.

And when they came for the socialists and trade-unionists:
I reminded myself that I was a conservative professional man,
so I again kept silent.

And when they rounded up the Jews,
I told myself that it was nothing to me, a Christian Pastor
And I said nothing.

But then they went too far. They started attacking the Church
And of course I spoke out at once!
But it was too late.

If, from the beginning, all 30,000 of us in the Church had denounced the Nazis relentlessly, some of us would have been martyred for our faith, but we would have saved 30 million innocent lives.
Now we must live with that failure of courage."
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #30
35. Yes. I referenced him in the OP. n/t
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bean fidhleir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. So you did! I even read that, but for some reason it didn't connect. Sorry! (nt)
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kineneb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
22. too old to rock&roll, too young to die
(per Jethro Tull)

So we sit and watch the Complex run what is left of the "dream" into the ground. And sit, and sit...

It is not that I have much to loose, but I am already so depressed (personal issues + the world) that I have no energy left to actively fight. Wish it were otherwise.

I collect Mike Whitney's essays and pass them on to friends w/o internet connections; he has been spot on so far in his economic predictions. Scary, really.

another good essay- thanks
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
26. His approach would have a chance if others believed in what
he believes and followed his lead. It is much easier to join with someone who has already opened the dialogue then to start anew.


I posted this last night and this happens to mention Edwards, but you can easily substitute any candidate, Dem leader or us common folks who have a vote :) Instead of retyping I'll just post comments already made.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4087013&mesg_id=4089827

...there were several times when Edwards could have agreed with Kucinich during the earlier debates to highlight certain issues, accountability for this administration, privatization of Iraq Oil and Bush's war drums against Iran. He stayed silent, Dennis was allowed to remain the outsider, instead of Edwards using his voice to, at the very least, throw a few bones and lend credibility to the issues Dennis was raising. In essence Dennis was paving a path on some some serious, controversial and current injustices (the Iraq Oil Law & Iran), Edwards chose not to join him. Those inactions spoke to me as well...


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4090938&mesg_id=4092470

...What frightens me is leaving this mess for my kids and grandkids. If we had been stronger and held people accountable years ago I doubt we would be in such a mess now.

Our votes are taken for granted and they will continue to be taken for granted until we shout out that they have to be earned...

And aside from our country look what we are allowing to happen in Iraq while our Congress, and that includes the Dems, allow benchmarks in the bill to pressure Iraq to privatize their resources...



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2702613

Nationalists Stirring in Iraq "..blocking the privatization of Iraq's oil"

"On January 13 an emerging Sunni-Shiite nationalist bloc in Iraq signed a groundbreaking agreement aimed at ending Iraq's civil war, blocking the privatization of Iraq's oil industry and checkmating the breakaway Kurdish state. It's a big step forward, and it could change the face of Iraqi politics in 2008.



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FredScuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
27. I wasn't aware that Kitty Genovese was polling at 2%
n/t
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
31. Great post. What's being done to Dennis is sick,

as was the murder of Kitty Genovese, and the sickest part is not the murder itself or the refusal to have him participate in a debate, but the way people don't give a shit.

People didn't give a shit when Kitty Genovese was murdered, didn't want to get involved. She was screaming for help and nobody did anything.

Clinton, Edwards, and Obama didn't give a shit when Kucinich was pushed out of the debate. They didn't care how undemocratic and unDemocratic that move was. They're all about #1, nobody else matters. If that's how they treat a fellow Democrat, how would they treat the country?

A lot of DUers don't give a shit about what's been done to Kucinich. They don't see that it's not just about Kucinich, it's about the whole system.

It didn't start in Las Vegas. It has been going on through all the other debates and it was done to Dodd, Biden, Gravel, Richardson, too. It will be done to Edwards next.
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Desertrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #31
42. Will they speak up when its Edward's turn??
Makes ya wonder what it will take....or if its already too late......
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. Edwards' supporters are already getting a little taste of
what it's like to be a DK supporter. You know, the way the guy who came in second in Iowa is suddenly hardly to be found in the media, which act as if there are only two Democratic candidates.
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genie_weenie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
33. No.
Just no. Death and being slandered/slighted/dismissed from a political process are not the same thing.
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. Why do so many DUers have a problem with METAPHOR? n/t
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genie_weenie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. Well, for me because it's a bad one and it belittles the death of Kity Genovese.
that's all...
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. Belittle? How? I showed no disrespect. In fact, had I been in NY in 1964, and done nothing...
for Ms. Genovese, I would have felt very ashamed about that, too.

I really don't see how feeling bad about two things is belittling one of them.

arendt
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genie_weenie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. Sir, I meant no insult and did not mean to state you are disrespecting the death of Genovese.
But, the act of comparing two things (a death and an unfair political hatchet job) places them on the same level for the comparison. By placing them on a similar level, usually one case becomes over dramatized and one trivialized.

Please understand it is awful the way Kucinich has been slighted and marginalized but it just doesn't compare to the death Ms. Genovese, in my opinion.
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. OK. I beleive you had good intentions. I'll make the metaphor concrete.
To some extent, the fact that we, as a country, ignore DK and his causes, contributes to Dick Cheney remaining in office. I guarantee you that, for every day that monster remains in power, one human being somewhere on this planet dies a horrible and unnecessary death due to his policies. I think that puts the two situations into the same frame.

I use DK as a stand-in for all the murders that we implicitly ignore as we ignore what is being done to DK.

I hope you can understand that fighting for the Constitution (not, simply, as you say, fighting against "an unfair political hatchet job") is as non-trivial as the unfortunate death of Ms. Genovese. A hatchet job is when someone starts a nasty rumor. Kucinich got railroaded in a court of law by megacorporations. (Read about how they deliberately changed his claim of breach of contract to a different claim, and then proceeded to rule against him on that bogus claim.) That is way beyond a hatchet job.

If I wanted to play the outrage card, I could say that you trivialize what was done to DK. But, what I really want is for DUers to "do nuance" and get metaphor. Otherwise, this place will continue to sound like a grade school playground, with cheap taunts and nasty replies. We need more ways to look at the issues.

arendt
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kas125 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #40
61. but it IS a death.
It's the death of the illusion that WE choose our candidates and it's the death of democracy.
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genie_weenie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-19-08 01:34 AM
Response to Reply #61
87. Miss, I don't know the america you write of.
America has always been the illusion of representation and democracy while the people have been corralled, controlled and cowed.
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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #34
51. Because so many DU'ers are not a fan of Kucinich and they know no other thing to whine about.
They can't argue any of your factual points, so they have to search for *something*...

I liked your post.

The USA scares me. I'm sorry, but it does.
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. It scares me too DutchLiberal.
Some of the assholes responding to arendt on this thread
provide ample evidence that there is plenty to be scared of.
arendt is one of the best authors on DU and just look how
fucking ridiculous some of the replies to his thread are.
Not exactly hopeful, is it.

BHN
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Desertrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #53
56. Ditto you guys...on all counts. n/t
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #34
74. Because there are a lot of dumb asses on DU these days?
Edited on Thu Jan-17-08 11:57 PM by BeHereNow
My first guess.
BHN
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Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
45. What Dennis does, we must all do.
Because the bad guys will never stop.
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Pastiche423 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
46. Don't you see, arendt?
Even people here on this democratic site, are looking the other way and/or are listening and believing what the M$M is saying and doing to Dennis.

It hasn't hit them that they, once again, are being controlled by the M$M who wants to silence anyone that strays from the "appropriate" message. They laugh at the names he's called and they call him a grandstander just like the M$M wants them to do.

In this instance, they are allowing the M$M to think for them. Who cares about impeaching the war criminals in the White House? Who cares about universal healthcare for all? Who cares that our Constitution has been shredded? Who cares that Americans have been wiretapped since before 9/11? Who cares that over a million innocent human beings have been killed in their name?

Apparently not many. They do not care that the man that has pledged his whole life to correct the many wrongs that are happening in our country is being silenced. But more importantly, his message (the same message they claim to believe in) is being silenced.

Who cares that the M$M has been slinging arrows into the heart of our democracy as the bleeding becomes more profuse?

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Psyop Samurai Donating Member (873 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #46
60. Notice how it ALWAYS comes back to the perception management matrix?
Edited on Thu Jan-17-08 08:33 PM by Psyop Samurai
It's hard to see how any kind of political unity can be achieved under such circumstances, let alone an effective opposition. And yet even the "enlightened" among us continually pretend that it can. It seems to me that a very deep psychological problem undergirds our political stasis. How hard is it to unplug? It seems that people are unable to trust themselves.

:freak:
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RadioactiveCarrot Donating Member (39 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
47. Thank you for writing this.
There definitely is that attitude existing in this country today. Democratic candidates should be standing up for the democratic process but instead we see...nothing.
Enjoy reading your articles arendt, thank you.
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #47
52. Welcome to DU RadioactiveCarrot. Clearly, you have excellent taste in writers. Arendt is the best.
I always look forward to the next "arendt" post.
Fresh water is so good to find in the desert of dumb shit posts, eh?
Ruh-oh...did I just make a metaphor?

Again, Welcome RC.
BHN

:hi: :kick:
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Pastiche423 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #52
62. We agree
arent is the best. I still have a post he made in 2003, saved on my hard drive.
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #47
65. Welcome to DU, RadioactiveCarrot.
I appreciate the readership.

arendt
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Psyop Samurai Donating Member (873 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
48. At last we have a name for the paralysis, the manifestation...
...of the moral vacuum that has sucked the soul out of us: "bystanderism".

Oh my..., how to keep this brief, and avoid getting abysmally upset for the 6000th time?

Perhaps I should preface by saying you're the LAST person I would associate with "bystanderism". And that is likely to hold true for the bulk of your respondents as well. In the face of complete collapse of leadership, we who have been fully present to this historic horror, who have continually been ready, willing, and, to whatever feeble extent, able, to charge that hill have been trying to figure out an effective strategy for doing so. For me, this has required a level of learning that far exceeds any before it, and a level of patience which, to put it mildly, I was not born with. And, before we charge that hill (the nature of which once seemed so self-evident), we need to ascertain that it truly IS the hill, and not another ruse, psyop, or another level of control.

No, true heroism does not require a secure outcome. Problem is, I've BEEN heroic, and have nothing to show for it but a personal life in ruins. Now what? Now we wait..., encourage others (if we are not utterly despondent ourselves), and show support for Dennis and all other truth tellers. Do I get upset with myself? Yes. Could I have done more, been smarter? Probably.

But was I a bystander? No. I was, however, besieged with bystanders on all sides, who not only are programmed not to see, but also to undermine anybody who insists they see. That is basically what did me in - not the fact that Nazis had infiltrated every institution and overthrown our government, but that NOBODY thought that it had anything to do with them.
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
54. arendt- don't waste your breath (or ink) on fools.
Your metaphor is completely valid.
BHN:loveya: :pals: :yourock:
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #54
67. Hi, BHN. Thanks for the support.
Part of me wants to agree with the sentiment; and part of me has an ego and wants to try to be a boddhisatva and enlighten the masses.

Me? A boddhisatva? NAAAAAAAH! This is DU.

arendt
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
55. Recommend #28 and proud of it.
BHN
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 07:59 PM
Response to Original message
57. I appreciate Dennis.
But I am not sure he 'fights as if there is no tomorrow'. Why didn't he work harder in Iowa? Why did he feel the need in one debate to defend Hillary and angrily attack Edwards?

Good essay though.
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
59. thanks again for yet another outstanding post
the silence over GE deciding who is an who is not running for president is deafening.
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #59
66. Yeah, but we can quibble all day whether or not my analogy was "appropriate" or "insensitive"...
:sarcasm: directed at the "gnat in my eye; beam in your eye" crowd; not at you, leftofthedial

arendt
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
63. I love your writing, Arendt! I'm always delighted to see a (too rare) post from you.
It's a good metaphor, a fascinating angle from which to view Kucinich's place in our political system.

I'm not all that well-versed in the Eastern martial arts traditions, but one impression I've gotten about the philosophy behind the technique is that a true Master does not charge headlong into the enemy. I'm not big on the idea of "an honorable suicidal charge into the machine guns."

Facing the truth of the enormity of the corruption of our National Security Predatory Capitalist Warfare State is of paramount importance, of course. As is speaking that truth to those rare and few minds who are willing to listen.

And then? What's the next step? I no longer believe that the next step is electoral politics at all. Is running for president in a rigged and thoroughly corrupt system the most useful way of bringing that system down?

I'm not asking that question rhetorically, I'm asking that question because I think it badly needs to be asked. Gandhi never ran for public office, he built his movement among the people who were being steamrolled by the system.

Some days I find it admirable and brave that Dennis Kucinich keeps on with his efforts, and other days I feel like his efforts are sadly beside the point. I'm not much into heroes or saviors or leaders these days. And, taking another look at your opening metaphor, I don't see much utility to victimhood, either. Martyrdom just looks like an ego trip to me.

I believe that the bulk of the work that needs to be done -- the work of building a free and just and sustainable way of living on the earth -- has absolutely nothing to do with electoral politics in its current manifestation. I think electoral politics wastes our energy and our passion -- no Moses is going to arise to part the Red Sea. We should be organizing ourselves into ship-building guilds.

My apologies for rambling...

sw

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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #63
64. I write, mostly, to keep my sanity - by hearing responses from people like you
Edited on Thu Jan-17-08 10:25 PM by arendt
Your "ramblings" capture the ambiguity and guilt I feel because I cannot find "a place to stand" to resist the creeping de-cerebration of the American electorate, the creeping corporate takeover of the planet, the creeping environmental pillage that will kill us all, long before the corrupt bastards who are taking charge get any enjoyment from their ill-gotten gains.

You say:

Some days I find it admirable and brave that Dennis Kucinich keeps on with his efforts, and other days I feel like his efforts are sadly beside the point. I'm not much into heroes or saviors or leaders these days. And, taking another look at your opening metaphor, I don't see much utility to victimhood, either.


Yes. The whole Joseph Campbell, create-your-own-mythology shtick is so transparent anymore that "heroism" has become just another commodity. And, being a victim has always sucked, although playing one on television has been a lucrative gig.

Lately, I waver between political action and making myself self-sufficient on my own property - solar power, gardening, etc. I see the Shock Doctrine moment approaching for the U.S., and I want to minimize my exposure.

regards,

arendt


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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #64
69. I'm very grateful that you write -- even though I think that "sanity" is probably overrated.
Edited on Thu Jan-17-08 10:58 PM by scarletwoman
Regarding the choice you outline in your last paragraph -- I already made it in 2004. My choice is to hunker down and put my energy into surviving the coming shit storm. I hang out on DU for the conversation and social contact, not because I have any faith in the political realm.

"Heroism" as commodity -- damn, I never thought of it like that before, but that's really spot on.

We live in a society that is so many degrees removed from direct, unmediated experience that it's nearly impossible for us to recognize that the "reality" we think we are inhabiting is merely a simulacrum.

sw
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #69
72. Simulacrum - another book I have to read...
But, I am interested in how you plan to survive, because I am always looking for advice, and conversation.

arendt
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #72
77. How I plan to survive? I don't need much.
Edited on Fri Jan-18-08 12:40 AM by scarletwoman
I've thought for many years about what I would do if "civilization" totally collapsed. Finding a supply of salt would be the trickiest thing. And I'd miss toilet paper.

Other than that, I've already spent most of my adult life living in rural areas, learning how to garden and gather and make/build/repair things. At various times in my life I've lived with no electricity, and cooked and heated with nothing but wood. I don't use pharmaceuticals, I've always used herbs to treat illnesses.

Currently, my little cabin and 10 acres of land in northern Minnesota will be paid off in full this spring. I don't own any credit cards, I don't have cable TV, I don't have any car loans, and my property taxes are very low since I don't have any plumbing or running water.

As an old hippie who dropped out a long time ago, I've survived for many years on very little. I don't think my life would change very much if a full out economic Depression hit, I've always lived pretty bare bones.

sw
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #77
84. wow! great planning! wish i'd done that. nt
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grytpype Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 10:48 PM
Response to Original message
68. You Dennis fans just can't get over the fact that he's an irrelevant worthless prat.
America is not going to accept Dennis as a leader, because he's not a leader, he's a failed politician and an attention whore.

So go cry yourself to sleep that Dennis isn't getting all the attention he wants, while the rest of America picks a president.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #68
70. Thank you for your thoughtful analysis of our current political/media paradigm!
Well done!
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #68
71. You can't seem to read.
I said:

>>>> Note: I have not endorsed any Democratic candidate to date, and I am not a supporter of DK.

So how, pray tell, am I a "Dennis fan"?

I am a fan of due process and judicial precedent. Just as the ACLU defends the Constitution, not necessarily the political views of the defendant, I am defending the process.

Process, another thing along with nunance, that a lot of DUers just don't get.


arendt
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #68
76. Oh yes, there is a thoughtful American-Idol-fan-of-politics contribution.
Your solution is?
Clinton?
:rofl:
Obama?
:rofl:

Call me from the soup kitchen line and let
me know how 2008 worked out for you.

BHN
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #68
85. not just ignoring the crime...
...but actually wielding the knife.
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idiocracyhell Donating Member (76 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-17-08 11:54 PM
Response to Original message
73. Your powerful metaphor was insightful
This country stands by while corporate America murders our democracy. Dennis Kucinich is excluded from OUR presidential debates that are aired on the peoples airwaves, and the bystanders, Clinton, Edwards, Obama, the Democratic Party, and the FCC, sit by while in collusion with the destruction of our constitutional right to a free election.

I'm truly shocked over the lack of support Dennis Kucinich receives. Americans have become complacent while they allow MSM to dictate who's electable and who deserves to be heard. Kucinich is by far the greatest candidate we have, and the only one promising real change with his single payer not-for-profit healthcare plan. Clinton and Obama are touting universal healthcare while being financially supported by the insurance industry! How immoral is it to cater to the industry responsible for our healthcare crisis, while promising the American people healthcare relief.

Corporate America has to ridicule and undermine Kucinich because his platform will hurt their bottom line. I'm sickened by the lack of morality and compassion in our society. I expect it from the corporate raiders of our democracy, but for the American people to neglect Kucinich and his compassionate and ethical campaign is disillusioning.

Two of my ancestors are Presidents John Adams and John Quincy Adams. I feel a responsibility to defend our Constitution not just as an American, but as a descendant of our Founding Fathers. Dennis Kucinich is the only candidate my conscience will allow me to support.

"Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." - John Quincy Adams

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Marnieworld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 12:46 AM
Response to Original message
78. You should be ashamed of yourself
You're right. She's a metaphor but not this metaphor. I have often thought of her when I act when no one is acting. :cry:
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #78
81. This is so confusing...
Edited on Fri Jan-18-08 09:02 AM by arendt
You say:

........I have often thought of her when I act when no one is acting.

Which is exactly the rationale I put forward about acting to save our Constitution.

But then you say:

........She's a metaphor but not this metaphor.


This seems like a total contradiction. And, even if its a bad metaphor, why should I be ashamed of using it? For the third time in this thread, I do not think this is in any way disrespectful to the memory of Ms. Genovese.

Could you please explain?

arendt
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Marnieworld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #81
82. I was quoting you
You start by saying that you should be ashamed and I was agreeing.Shame was a bit harsh and I apologize. The metaphor is correct I guess, I see what you were saying, yet I found it distasteful nonetheless. Dennis Kucinich will be fine regardless of his campaign. She was brutally slaughtered for an extended period of time crying out, knowing she was heard and yet apparently not worth saving from her neighbors' perspective. It was an agonizing wait for help to never arrive. I still empathize with her and comparing it to a political campaign I feel just diminshes that experience. We just disagree.

Peace.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 12:52 AM
Response to Original message
79. Why not support him? At the very least, he pushes all the other candidates--
--further toward the Dem base. Look how far Edwards has moved in that direction since 2004.
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caseycoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 06:56 AM
Response to Original message
80. arendt you are so right....
I am in tears. I remember 1964, Kitty Genovese, how she screamed & how no one did anything to help.
Now it is the murder of our Costitution, our Bill of Rights, our whole way of life. Again, no one will stand up. Only DK, & they are doing everything possible to silence him. Our 'bystandism' has allowed everything that has brought our country to where it is now, & I am afraid, will allow it to die.

Great post, arendt! Thank you.
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-18-08 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
86. thank you, arendt.
another great post.

i AM a kucinich supporter, but financially only, because that's all i can do (for a number of reasons. and i do chastise myself for not doing more).

in a way i understand he can never win BECAUSE he is so radical (ironinc that for one to be so oriented to the majority is radical). were dennis to actually gain traction among the people, i fear he would be assassinated. there is no way the powers that be would allow him to take office. the only candidate to eneter the white house will be one who is bought and paid for by those powers. we are, frankly, too late, absent a truly MASS movement.

my biggest fear at this point is that bush/cheney, inc. will get off scott free. to me, that will signal the end.

thanks again, and best wishes for us all.
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