Would you lay down your life for your country?

For the sake of this discussion, let's assume our country is the great one we remember from years gone by, and not the mess that Unfettered Republicanism™ of the last seven years has wrought upon us.

Would you lay down your life for it?

Now consider where we are today. If you could answer yes to the postulation above, what about now? Today our country seems as if pod people have invaded. That or there really is a place called Dumbfuckistan and they've sent their finest to our country to attempt assimilation.

Would you lay down your life for our country today?

otherwise I prolly would

If people wouldn't buy into the stupidity of this idea, and the idea of a government being more important than each individual in the country, there would be no one left to fight the wars.

My favorite bumper sticker from the Viet Nam era:

"Suppose they gave a war and no one came?"

Most of the wars fought over the last 50 years have all been over bullshit reasons. You could make a legitimate case for Korea. But we had no business being in Vietnam, Kuwait, and Iraq. I wouldn't want to fight in a war based on bullshit.

there would be a few more "yes" replies.

I don't know.

I think you're right.

Thanks for '"getting it". :thumbsup:

I'd lay my life down for The Constitution, but not this shithole full of incredibly stupid and willfully ignorant fucks. I'd be glad to see this Bush's America become extinct. I've learned a lot about my fellow Americans these past few years, and sadly, I would not lay my life down for these people. Fuck all but the handful of people I've met who have a clue.

Average American=Stupidite.

If not, then it doesn't get taught.

Not for country.

Not for any imperialistic ambitions.

Not for the criminals in government or their cronies.

Not for the military/industrial complex who have the ethics of a rock and see no problem with the use of depleted uranium and weapons I probably can't imagine.

If we are attacked, I would fight for my family, friends, community and my fellow citizens. To attack and murder people in some foreign land whom I have more in common than I have with politicians and warmongers - no.

No. It takes courage and strength to keep peace and the only political/personal agenda I would support.

Let the warmongering maggots go kill one another as far as I'm concerned. Let their kids die for oil and power.

But then, I would be fighting (or dying) for my friends, family and neighbours, not the government.

Sorry, I can't assume it's the great one we remember.

It is what it is.

an American Idol than they do a President? Not a chance in Hell.

And I'm not even sure what the United States is these days -- I'm dead serious. Our society is severely bifurcated along class lines. The addiction to the combustion engine is literally killing us. Most of our goods are manufactured in China, and much of our telecommunications has been outsourced to India, etc.

My best answer right now is that we've all got to start thinking beyond countries and ideologies, and rally around the common cause of global preservation.

Without a home (Earth), there'll be no lives to lay down -- for *any* causes.

In the NOW: I would lay down my life to bring back the freedoms, rights and privacy that we've lost.

Of course.

One thing to keep in mind: when people say "this country" or "we" they don't mean the same thing. Most blue collar people think of the country as the people - family, friends, neighbors. Most educated and professional people - even those who are in opposition to the government - unconsciously betray their identification with the ruling class by how they use the word "country" and who they mean when they say "we."

I don't think of "we" as being the rulers or the wealthy and powerful, so I wouldn't say that "we" invaded Iraq. I don't think that the country is the leaders, or the wealthy and powerful, either, so when I say "country" I mean the other 90% - the everyday working people.

Yes, I would sacrifice everything for my country - the people of my greater community - in the fight against enemies both foreign and domestic.

For someone else's country, doubtful. For corporate profits, fuck no.

The very short, unqualified answer is 'yes'.

When you go for qualifications, however, the answer varies.

A lot of respondents cited the war or fighting for corporatists or whatever ...... that completely misses the point. "The country" is the community of people who are the citizens of the United States. Back in my youth, I felt like the country was a form of family to me. I would have laid down my life much like most any parent would for a child. Yes, there were always differences. All sorts of differences. But there really wasn't a lot of the visceral hatred we see today.

In today's America, I'm far less sure I would be willing to lay down my life for it. I have to admit that i feel some of that hatred and engender it. I really have strong feelings for the citizens of Dumbfuckistan. That would be the Neocon true believers and the Christofascist true believers and the "I've got mine/fuck you" "selfishists". And those who enable them. Which would be a lot of Republicans. I simply don't see them as deserving of my sacrifice. Actually, they don't deserve shit. In fact, fuck them.

So ...... in times past, I woujld have felt okay with it. Today ..... not so much.

"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good." - Thomas Paine

I'd expect some changes to be made.

That is most effective on the ignorant.

Would I lay down my life to protect my family from my country {fascist police state}?
If it came down to that, hell yes.

To quote George Carlin:
"I love and treasure individuals as I meet them; I loathe and despise the groups they identify with and belong to."

Nope. HOWEVER:

"If I had to choose between betraying my country and betraying my friend, I hope I should have the guts to betray my country."

-- Edward Morgan Forster

in which we vote utterly destructive "beer-with" assholes into office, who then run our country into the ground. Sorry, I'm not willing to die for these shallow, ignorant, materialistic, American-Idol-influenced sheeple.

for his country.

Or something to that effect.

Like jumping off a tall building. One wontedly changes their mind when their half way down after they jump.

A working definition of nation is a group of people whose common history, language, culture and self-identity binds them together, regardless of geography. A state is simply political divisions represented as lines on a map.

By those standards, I think that the US is currently a state, not a nation. Nationalism is used to whip the populace into supporting whatever militaristic, xenophobic, imperialist or "free trade" piece of mindless excess the corporate elites and their employees in the white house decide will make them the most money in the shortest period of time.

But it's a phony kind of nationalism in that it has more to do with support for a particular regime or set of ideologies than it does love of country.

Nationalism as manifested currently in the US is, I think, more accurately called "state-ism." There are those who fly the flag out of identification with the American creation myth, but they seem significantly outnumbered by those who fly the flag to self-identify as BushBots or pro-war or anti-immigrant or anti-gay or pro-religious nut cases or (insert your favorite wingnut wedge issue here).

Many of these are people who accept the controlling power of a warrior state because it validates their personal commitment to violence and aggression. BushCo is the perfect rallying point for these people.

And another thing: I have much more in common with people I've met in Canada, Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Mexico, Costa Rica and Argentina than I'll ever have in common with the archetypal American jerkoff -- dull, bigoted, obese, quick to shoot, slow to comprehend, BushBot consciousness, anti-environmentalist, humor dependent on what Rush told him that day... This guy might as well live on the moon (and I wish he did) in terms of my identifying with him as part of my nation and being willing to give up my life so he can continue to live his.

So does that make me a German, Costa Rican, Canadian, Italian or... ? If I use the cohesiveness of nationalism as the yardstick, then that's a reasonable argument. Am I an American? Not if that means I have to be glad that I breathe the same air as that jerkoff above.

And not if it means I'm a state-ist whose nationalism is superseded by allegiance to a government that represents only the interests of the top 5 percent who live within those lines on a map. But I am an American if that means holding government to its obligations to the people: life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

But that stuff's soooooooo 20th Century. So no, there are things worth risking your life for, but America v2.0 isn't one of them. I'm pretty sure America v1.0 didn't qualify either, but I wasn't around for the post-Pearl Harbor enlistment frenzy or the panic that accompanied the first USSR thermonuclear test blast in 1953, so I can't be sure.

Great question, btw.


wp

n/t

All who are not willing to put themselves at risk for the sake of their country had damned well better be prepared to put their life on the line to change the country so that it is worth defending.

One cannot with integrity simultaneously say that we should "work within the system" and argue against radical change and be unwilling to make serious personal sacrifices to that end and then also say that they are not willing to lay down their life for their country.

If you are not on the barricades, if you are not resisting the government with every fiber of your being, at whatever risk to yourself that may involve, yet you are not willing to give up your life to defend that government and country you are acting and speaking out of cowardice, not principle. You cannot have it both ways.

If the country and the government are so bad that no one will consider making any sacrifice to defend them, then we are way past the time for total resistance and radical and fundamental change.

Which is it? Are things more or less OK and are no radical and profound changes needed and we can just comfortably work within the system? If so, then honor and duty and integrity require us to be willing to make the ultimate sacrifice. Or, are things so bad that we are willing to take that step over into true opposition and resistance?

For my friends and family.. sure.. but for this country? Never. Why should I? Most of the people in this country are bumbling morons. Even assuming the country was the "Great one we remember" (the greatness of this country is a lie to begin with, imo)

:shrug: Life is all you have.....

Just a couple examples. Their efforts were to make this country a better place not just for themselves but also for others.

There have always been people who have dedicated their lives, even risked and sometimes lost their lives while battling injustice, corruption, etc., without ever putting on a military uniform. Don't these folks serve their country (the people) too?

as for this warmongering crap, hell no I am not going to lay down my life for my country.

The greatest threat to my country are the parasites within.

If you could give more of an idea of what you mean it would be easier to answer.

But if my family was threatened from outside, in that sense, I would fight to the death for my "country".

I guess you could say I'm one illness away from doing so since I can't afford healthcare.

the "great one we remember from years gone by"

from my understanding of history the US has been involved in only 1 military adventure that could be classed as defensive, every other one, and there have been hundreds, has been purely to secure other people's land or resources.

There is no one on DU old enough to have lived in the mythical America alluded to by many Democrats.

From my own perspective, if Australia were ever invaded then I would be first to pick up a gun. Will I go overseas to fight to increase the power and wealth of the already obscenely privileged? No.