My thoughts on the economic stimulus package

I was having a chat with my bff, (best friend forever), while the news droned on in the background when she shushed me because the newscaster started into a story on the Economic Stimulus Package.

Her: "It looks like President bush is going to give us all a check! Could be more than a few hundred dollars!!!"

Me: "Um...well there really is more than meets the eye here, did you notice that he was ALSO talking about further tax cuts on business?"

Her: "I don't own a business...any extra money for us HAS to be a good thing!"

Me: "Well, not exactly...It really depends on how much money is in this Economic Stimulus Package, WHO IS PAYING FOR IT, and how it is being divided up! Knowing bush and the neo-cons, this will hardly benefit Democracy in the end if he and his people get their way...they ALWAYS get their way it seems."

Her: You are about to go off on a political rant aren't you...look I need any help I can get, if President bush wants to cut me a check...well I am not complaining!"

Me: "(BIG sigh...) Look, I'll try to make this simple. Who has talked about giving more and more tax breaks to the wealthy and to big business?

Her: "The Republicans of course...everyone knows that the Democrats just want to raise our taxes!"

Me: "No! Not OUR taxes, you are Middle Class, I am in the poor class, the Dems have never talked about raising OUR taxes... but this is a sidetrack, let me get back to simple: Do you remember in your history class mention of something called "The Great Depression?"

Her: "Sure"

Me: "I heard on a radio program from an 80 year old who lived in the Great Depression. His family had been in the Middle Class just prior to it happening. He remembered having to walk the train tracks looking for little chunks of coal which may have fallen off the passing coal trains. He said that any coal he found was what got used to heat his home! Can you imagine that? Can you imagine sitting in your Middle Class home right now with no heat in it? With no food in the fridge and oh, you can't find a job anymore...not even a waitress job!.. Can you imagine that?"

Her: "Well I know you keep saying that things are getting bad...but things are not THAT bad and I am not convinced that things will EVER get that bad and what does this have to do with me getting a check from the Government?"

Me: "I'll get to that...hang in there with me...back to the Great Depression for a bit, so during the Depression where exactly WAS the money? Did America just ship it off to another country???, did they blast it off into outer-space???"

Her: "Well how should I know where the money was back then!"

Me: Well let's examine where it wasn't,...was it in the hands of the poor?"

Her: "No, of course not!"

Me: "Was it in the hands of the Middle Class?"

Her: "No, I think they suffered the worst...at least the poor were used to scrounging for their meals and clothes"

Me: "EXACTLY!!! and great point...the Middle Class WAS indeed hit pretty hard...So where was the money?"

Her: "The Rich had it!"

Me: "Sorta, but in keeping this simple I'll agree, the rich, actually the VERY RICH had it"

Her: "Those fat corporations that you keep bitchen about had it too"

Me: "BINGO again... the corporatists wound up with the money!"

Her: "...and this is relevant to "MY" check how??????

Me: "Hang in there, I am getting to that. Did you know that the 2 republican administrations just prior to the Depression gave huge tax breaks to those corporations...did you know those same super wealthy corporations were fighting AGAINST the Middle Class by lobbying our government for even bigger tax breaks, that those same corporations had reduced the very Middle Class who worked in their factories to peasantry status? Did you know that they were like big vacume cleaners, soaking up the wealth of America and depositing that wealth in their own pockets?"

Her: "Why did they do that?" "That's not very American"

Me: "Well actually it is very American and very Un-American, A corporation is allowed to maximize profits...this is called capitalism" Those companies back then were doing just that. The steel industries, the railroad industries, the textile industries...they were doing everything they could to maximize their profits...if they could have gotten away with slave labor they would have. The Un-American part is that what they were doing was killing Democracy...they were causing great damage against the Middle Class...just as they are doing today!

Her: "So when the Middle Class got squeezed, this caused the Great Depression?"

Me: "Well there is more to it than that but in keeping things simple, yes, letting the corporations squeeze the Middle Class AND their having strong influence over our Government, like they have today, was indeed a big precursor to the Great Depression"

Her: "Yeah but we could never have that happen again can we...afterall this is America and we got a war going...everyone knows that WWII is what ended the Great Depression!"

Me: "No, WWII was not what ended the Great Depression and yes, I fear it can happen here again, perhaps it is happening right now and we just aren't seeing it yet"

Her: "So what ended the Great Depression?"

Me" "Well this is a sidetrack but it was the Democrats led by a guy named Roosevelt...they basically took from the rich and gave back to the poor...you've heard of things like social security and minimum wage and government jobs and etc. This restrengthened the Middle Class...WWII came along while the Democrats were pulling us out of the Great Depression...those Middle-class strengtheners were used to boost our economy and the industrious Middle Class got to take advantage of them during WWII, further strengthening the Middle Class. As the Middle class grows strong, so does America! The corporatists were screaming bloody murder just prior to WWII but they were in the minority...the will of the Middle Class had ascended to power! We The People had reclaimed our Government"

Her: "Ok you lost me and this grows boring...what does this have to do with bush giving me a check?"

Me: "Well the corporatists have regained that same power they had over our government, the very powers they had just before the Great Depression. The republicans are doing the exact same things for the corporatists that they did back then: Give them even MORE money!"

Her: "So??? I still get a check too what's wrong with that?"

Me: "Look, if bush took his proposed 3-point whatever billion dollar economic stimulus money and actually distributed it to the Middle Class and poor...we would EACH get considerably MORE in that check! If it gets divided up only for Americans over the age of 21 and for those who qualify as being in the Middle Class or less it could easily be substantially larger!. Wouldn't THAT be nice? How would you like a nice fat check from our Government for say: $15,000 instead of a measly $6-800? Bush is just offering up a little tiny portion of this package for the Middle Class...the rest will find it's way into the hands of the corporatists!

Her: "Are you serious??? Hell I could put that kind of money to some real serious use indeed!"

Me: "Yes, every member of our Middle Class could use that right now...one can argue that this money was robbed from us in the first place...so yes, America's Middle Class would regain a measure of strength, they would spend this money or save it or invest it or whatever they wanted...it would be a true and very real Economic Stimulus Package! But that notion goes against the very fiber of the neocons...in their eyes the corporatists deserve that money so you won't be seeing that fat check...instead you will be bribed with a little one...one just large enough to stave off that Second Great Depression I keep worrying about for a little while longer"

Her: "Just long enough for the Democrats to get into the White House?"

Me: "Perhaps...I can not look into the future but perhaps...Now when you hear the cons talking about this "Economic Stimulus Package, and even a few Dems talking about it too, please listen to the parts where they add "Corporate Tax Breaks" and you will see where that money is REALLY going! If you think about it, would you really want to sell out American Democracy for that little check?" That's what they would do here, bribe you with a little check in order to get you to go along with the much larger robbery that has been accelerating since the Reagan Administration.

Her: Well I'll take what I can get...America will get through this...it's just a little recession, you'll see!

Me: "I hope you are right...but pardon me if I weep for America and for what may be the passing of American Democracy"

Yes My fellow DUers, my friend and I actually had this conversation and yes I do feel that bush and the cons are NOT doing this to benefit America...that we are getting another bribe, another tiny bribe from the larder of OUR money which is being stolen from us by those same bastards! I understand that I may have taken liberties with history in my discussion with my friend but I wanted her to see a bigger picture, one set in a historic context. It is my feeling that Americans, myself included are woefully unaware of our own history and how that history is relevant to things going on today.

The bottom line is: In order for American Democracy to survive, the Middle Class must take back it's government. If you think about it, We The People ARE the Middle Class and as such we MUST retain control over our own affairs... That is how our Founding Fathers set things up for us, they knew that Democracy would wither and fail should a minority take control over the majority! That is what almost happened to us just prior to the Great Depression and it is happening to us right now! We The People have been deliberately divided and subdivided! The Great Depression brought us together because hunger was shared by all REGARDLESS of party! It is my fear that this division we have allows for the worlds corporatists to continue their rampage against us. It is my fear that soon, we will no longer be able to take back our Government! This ain't about being Republican or Democrat or whatever...it's about American Democracy, the Will of We The People, the will of the majority, the one TRUE MAJORITY: The MIDDLE CLASS! If we wither, our nation withers, if we prosper our nation prospers...it gets no simpler than that!

So please save any flames about this or that liberty I may have used in my conversation with my friend and instead join me in championing the cause of the Middle Class. When your reps talk about helping out the corporatists with big tax cuts and further deregulations and free markets...look them in the eye and say BULLSHIT! We want OUR country back! Those corporations operate in OUR country, they prosper under OUR democracy, NOT the other way around! They work here under OUR rules, We The People shall NEVER be under their rule, not this day, not tomorrow, not as long as We The People still have a say in our own affairs!
c

Thanks for putting forth all that energy. I hope the message sinks in. :hi:

...hope the messege sinks in.... Thank You :toast:

the proposed $800-$1600 check is an ADVANCE on following year's income tax refund.

not all that different than one of those paycheck loan companies where you borrow against your NEXT paycheck

these "rebate checks" and wealthy-fare handouts are good only for the short term and don't do much good in the long run. Yeah, after the last bush bribe the stock markets went up - but how much of that actually "trickled down"?

wages have steadily declined or stagnated, while oil and everything related to it has gone up. The "taxcut" did doodly-squat as states/local communities had to increase their taxes to make up for a shortfall in federal funds that would have come from through the fed income tax.

You mentioned FDR - what his plans included wer long term projects that put people to work. WW2 also helped as millions of men were taken out of the workforce and put into the military - this gave them a paycheck and also removed them from the civilian workforce. Plus, opening or converting factories to build weapons/supplies etc. for the war put millions more to work - INCLUDING WOMEN.

I am not suggesting we go into a WW-3 mode - however if you think of WW-2 as a Major Project, we could do the same by having a major project such as Alternate Fuels/breaking the oil habit.

I've been yammering about this for 7 years - a major project to address fuel, global warming etc would help the economy. The naysayers cry that the technology isn't there - well we didn't have the technology to put a man on the moon when JFK set the goal.

and what was the result of the Apollo project? Not only did we put a man on the moon, but the research and technologies developed along the way has trickled down to all of us in one fashion or another. Computers, medical advances, satellites, household products, JOBS created that didn't even exist before. How many computer programmers were there in the 1960's? How many IT professionals? how many satellite TV installers and manufacters? these jobs wouldn't even exit if we did not have the Apollo project.

if we put our mind to it we may even be able to develop alternatives to the combustable engine - come up with a whole new kind of technology for our engines. the possibilities are limitless, and the benefits even more.

:D

You are right, I did not even bring up that this Stimulus Package would come out of our (future) pockets... I know that the wealthy have no intentions on paying for it anyway. In essence bush is giving out an advance on money we would normally be getting anyway...nothing more. The wealth of America is being sucked out of We The People and redistributed into the hands of the corparatists...man of which are not even American! WE THE PEOPLE can still turn things around perhaps.

I loved your notion of a (government funded) Major Project Program directed at weaning America off of Big Oil! I think we are heading that way now, albeit VERY tentatively. Congress is about to or just passed legislation which favors American "Green Industry(s)". This is a good step in the right direction but MUCH more is needed.

If AMERICA can re-invest back into it's own Middle Class, (read We The People invested back into ourselves) we would strengthen our own economy likely to a point not even Roosevelt could have dreamed about!

btw: The notion of investing into the Middle Class was a cornerstone of the plan which pulled Europe and Japan out of the devastations they faced from WWII...BOTH regions were in far sadder shape than America is now. If needs-be perhaps a new version of the McCarthy Plan could be implemented here. The cons are all that stand in our way, oh and possible election shenannigans from electronic voting.

But I'm afraid you are right K & R

... I have not given up, (not saying they have given up either but it often sounds that way).
I feel that it took the Great Depression to unite people. The masses, (read WE THE PEOPLE) were HUNGRY! There were no jobs, there was no where to turn yet one and all COULD see where America's money was...it was in the hands of the corporatocracy!

Are we there yet? No, but We The People sense SOMETHING is up, they can plainly see the money being sucked out of America. That's why the "economy" is playing such a big role in this election, the masses are fearful something is up and rightly so I think...when we get "hungry" enough we will reunite again, it won't be Democrat vs Republican anymore, it will be We The People ascending back to power over our own affairs again! That is TRUE DEMOCRACY! A government OF THE PEOPLE, BY THE PEOPLE and FOR THE PEOPLE! Our own bottom line, regardless of party is: PRESERVING AMERICAN DEMOCRACY! That is what I am counting on.

It is my hope that We The People can see what is up BEFORE we have to face the ravages of a second Great Depression, that we will have remembered our own history before we end up repeating it, that we will actually take back our government before we have to suffer more than we should have to.

sorry for the rant donheld...I know I was using your post in this thread to get back up on my soapbox...thanks for the recommendation btw.. :toast:

There's no hope for us if, the American people don't wake teh hell up!

For those who may have bookmarked this thread, (well I did at any rate), this link detailing the events leading up to the Great Depression, and the Great Depression itself, is not too highbrow for those of us lacking economics degrees.

http://www.gusmorino.com/pag3/greatdepression/