Should children be taught in a style they struggle with?

It's been suggested that many of the great inventors and groundbreaking people had learning disability's. They were put in a school system set up for 90% of the population causing them to have to learn in ways their brain was not built to learn. Perhaps this caused them to use parts of their brain that otherwise wouldn't have been used? The brain is a muscle and when it can't do something it is attempting to do then it has to add dendrites (more muscle) to that area of the brain. You don't build muscles by lifting light things, you build it best when you try to life something that is too heavy.

So, perhaps Dyslexics should be taught in traditional schools and kids who learn traditionally should be taught in the way Dyslexics learn? Then balance it out with a little bit of both kinds of learning so the brain gets stimulated across the board?

I am not suggesting we revamp the entire school system, but I would like to see some research in this area.

Thoughts?

...until a teachers ruler on the back of my hand changed that........and yes!!! it has caused me to struggle in several ways...

I have non-hyperactive ADD, and I've had to use myriad ways to adapt to everything with this condition. My years from 1st to 12th grade were horrible (during that time there was no knowledge that ADD existed, as it's relatively recent that it's even known about or being studied). However, once I myself learned ways to adapt, I ended up being a straight-A, honor society student in college.

Someone in my family has a high-functioning autistic child, and one with pervasive developmental disorder, and the way she is handling it, is using whatever resources the state offers, along with her own Internet and library research of alternative methods, and it's paying off quite well. Both are advancing. They will always have these disabilities, but they'll be the best they can be.

The brain is not a muscle, first off, although I'm sure you meant that as a metaphor. Still, while it's true that we form more connections between brain cells when working on/learning new stuff, I think that if it is too hard, we tend to just give up. Dyslexics have been taught in traditional schools since there have been schools, and I don't think it's worked out too beneficially for them. Obviously, the only way to gauge something like this is to assess results, but I'd bet that those results would show dyslexics learn better in a program tailored to their needs than in a regular school curriculum. Otherwise, why would there even be special programs for dyslexics in the first place?

are challenged with a learning style they struggle with just to stimulate the brain. I have an uncle who was severely dyslexic and they thought he was retarded. (this was back in the 30's) He went on to be a state senator in Nevada. My sister had a similar situation and now she is a top Interior designer in Dallas. However, many kids who struggle too much might not learn because it's too hard and they end up daydreaming, with low self esteem and not wanting to go to school. Then they end up as under achievers or on drugs and in jail.

I do think kids need to be challenged though and perhaps adding a teaching style that they don't get, just for an hour a day would help them grow more dendrites in the brain.

My son was diagnosed with passive ADHD in grade school and he is now

a high school graduate with TWO diploma's, earned at the same time.

He's not on drugs, an alcoholic (doesn't ever drink), non-smoker and he's never been arrested!

He is, however, gainfully employed and has been since he entered the ninth grade!

I was pointing out that there is a need to be careful or this could happen. I am severely Dyslexic and I turned out OK too but I had good family support and other kids don't. If a kid doesn't have that support system then they might not be able to cope with their learning disability and recognize how talented they actually are.

and beat the odds.

Really.

Count your blessings.

I have two ADD kids. One is great, the other still struggling.

the vast majority of people with something like dyslexia will be unable to learn properly or at least struggle greatly without some kind of help or coping strategies. People with LDs have a normal IQ but some hardwiring in the brain is mixed up making learning in a traditional manner difficult and impossible in some cases. You wouldn't say to a blind person "just really *try* and see...if you put your mind to it you will re-gain sight"...it's just something that is physically impossible for them. Most people with LDs are educated in regular classrooms with varying levels of in-class and out of class support. My cousin has a visual perception problem, no matter what she does or how hard she studies, she will never be able to perceive the written word in the same way that I can. Instead she learned how to cope with this disability and does the best she can, she's not dumb but she has trouble reading.

The great intellectuals with learning disabilities were already gifted with abnormally high IQ's so the chances of them excelling at something are a lot greater than the 99% of us who aren't blessed with that kind of intelligence. I think throwing all kids with LDs to the sharks because Einstein possibly had a learning disability and he turned out alright isn't really doing anybody a good service.

I think an argument can be made against over diagnosing learning disabilities or ADD but that is an entirely different issue.

I have no doubt I would have been diagnosed with it if I was born later. It seems like if any kid is slightly difficult or just introspective, teachers want to dope them up to keep them docile. They tried to force my sister to give her son Ritalin, she refused and he is now one of the smartest, nicest 20-year-olds I've ever met.

He suggested ADD's would have done really well in Hunting and Gathering tribes and that perhaps evolution bread ADD's to help Hunters and Gather tribes survive. Now that society has changed these people who would have been stars in the old days stick out. ADD is likely just a natural, normal thing and giving them drugs so they are just like everyone else is ridiculous. If you look ant bees and ants and many kinds of animals they have workers, builders, protectors, etc. They all have there purpose in the survival of the hive etc.

But they don't recommend not treating it.

And a massive generalization. In nearly 30 years teaching I have never ONCE tried to persuade a parent to dope their kid up. Neither has any other teacher I know.

Gawd, I can't stand it when these threads turn into a chance to bash teachers.

You think I made it up?

Teachers cannot tell parents to put their kids on drugs. We are not doctors. This is not only considered unprofessional but is grounds for termination. Now if there was really this massive problem of teachers telling parents to drug their kids, you would think there would also be massive numbers of teachers being fired. But there is not.

And if you say oh but it happened to me, my response is did you report the teacher. If not, you should have.

http://archive.salon.com/mwt/feature/2000/09/25/medicate/print.html
http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0614/p12s01-legn.html

Don't call me a liar. My sister was told that if she didn't acquiesce, they'd expel the kid. She fought and threatened to sue, and they backed down. But this is going on, whether you want to believe it or not.

He took Ritalin and it ruined his teeth. I refused to give it to him, only my ex did. I saw no appreciable difference in his beahvior with or without it, except that he fell asleep right after school if he'd taken it.

Was the teacher a doctor?

Eventually, my son was trequired to go to counseling and take Ritalin to be able to attend school.

I refused to give him the drugs, and had it out with the couselors because every time he developed a rapport with a new one, they'd leave their job and move on.

In his case, it was unnecessary bulshit, forced on a kid too young to be expected to sit in a chair for 6 1/2 hours a day.

Ritalin is not the only drug out there, of course. Some doctors will diagnose another to see if the child reacts better. In many cases, it's simply that, whatever problems the child is having with attention, a drug is not the answer.

There are ways to deal with attention deficit without drugs; they are effective in many cases.

As both a teacher and a mom, I'd wonder about the diagnosis. Perhaps it is a different issue with similar symptoms, or perhaps it is mild enough that drugs aren't an appropriate treatment.

and teachers try to persuade me to dope up my daughter.

My cousin who teaches, said she sees it all the time. They usually try to dope up the kids with "behavioral" problems.

students.

I've seen kids who missed their meds, and they'd tell us they couldn't understand, were too distracted, etc. They weren't necessarily bouncing off the walls, but in their heads, they were really having to struggle.

OTOH, I've had kids tell me they can't eat hardly anything because their meds supress their appetites.

It's a fine line, and each case has to be evaluated independently, regardless of what a teacher who wants a kid to "settle down" may say. They're not doctors.

is piss-poor psychology. I can't imagine that taking addictive, mind-altering drugs every day wouldn't affect the very development of a kid's brain. Maybe they're befuddled after missing meds for a day, but that could also be because they're going through withdrawal.

I sometimes wonder if the kid is so used to the meds, that the behavior without it was a form of withdrawal, and maybe if they'd never been started on it, behavior modification would have worked.

But, that takes time to implement, and there are some classes where all we'd be doing is collecting data for individual behavior programs.

It just seems suspiciously more prevalent. BUT, I have a theory that generations of drug use can have hereditary affects. It's been a few generations since the 60's and the rise in polularity of widespread recreational drug use.

Could be, it wasn't treated, and those who had it struggled and eventually dropped out in the past.

I see quite a bit of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome effected kids in the schools, too; :(

They also aren't addictive as prescribed to children.

They have been prescribed to kids for ADD for nearly 80 years now. And there is 80 years worth of research to support their effectiveness. Penicillin wasn't even invented yet when stimulant meds were first used to treat ADD.

The meds are literally a life saver for kids who really need them. They truly do make the difference between being available to learn and not being available to learn.

Previous generations didn't diagnose it, but that isn't the only reason for the modern increase we see. I would agree that ADD/ADHD is somewhat over-diagnosed, and I also think that the population of people with this condition has been rising. There are numerous studies about the multiple causes of ADD; this article refers to just a few:

http://www.helpguide.org/mental/adhd_add_causes.htm

What is important to remember about ADD/ADHD is that it shows up on a continuum ranging from barely noticeable to extreme. Every state and every school system is different, of course. I've taught for a couple of decades in two different states now, and I can say with confidence that the districts I've worked in did not even attempt to get a diagnosis unless there were at least moderately debilitating effects in the classroom. Diagnosis or not, there are many things that can, and are, done within the school setting to help kids without resorting to medication. There are two instances in which the districts that I've taught in would recommend (never FORCE; that's illegal), medicating an ADD/ADHD child:

1. When the child cannot, even with all the extra assistance and techniques at the school's disposal, function well enough to learn successfully in a school setting.

2. When parents will not learn and consistently apply other ways of helping the child develop coping skills in the home.

I can only speak for the schools and districts I've worked in, though. One thing I have noticed is that in some districts there is a push to identify ADD/ADHD. I think it's because the only way a student can get any extra help is to be identified with some learning disability; there are no funds for extra assistance outside of special ed. That, of course, is just plain wrong. It's also wrong to exclude kids who need extra help or services from getting them based on "qualifying." Not all kids who need assistance have learning disabilities, but all of them need help.

That's a funding issue. If there were plenty of funds to ensure small class sizes and extra teachers available for 1-on-1 and small group help for ALL, then the only kids who would need to be diagnosed are those with specific learning disabilities, like various visual processing problems, because that helps us know how to help the student. There is not, though; hence the push in some areas to diagnose a condition that will get kids extra help.

I'm well known as a teacher that will happily work with parents and their ADD/ADHD kids without wanting to medicate them. The vast majority of students I've had with that condition have not been medicated. I have also dealt with the extreme cases in which the medication makes the difference between success and failure, and I know the difference.

This year, in one class of 6th graders, 13% have ADD/ADHD symptoms. One is undiagnosed, the rest have diagnoses. One is on medication; mom's decision, not our suggestion. He is not the most extreme in the room. All are finding success. That 13% is quite high, but then both admin and parents tend to send ADD/ADHD kids my way, knowing that I'm happy to work with them.

Of course, the OP had nothing to do with ADD/ADHD; dyslexia is a visual processing problem, and is not addressed through medication.

in the style which they learn the best. Some are visual learners, others kinesthetic, and others learn best through music and that just names a few. My son is ADHD and LD in writing and math. He has enough frustration, thank you. As a teacher, I modify my lessons to help my students.

styles you mentioned.

That's what Richardson kept trying to say in the debates when he mentioned putting arts back in the schools.

Using visual, kinesthetic and musical approaches, helps everyone's brain make new neural connections and improves grades acrosss the board in every subject. :hi:

We sing in my classroom frequently. It is a great way to learn the helping verbs. Finger paint, sand a great way to learn spelling words. Air writing is good for cursive and spelling.

There are so many learning disabilities that are specific, and so many kids have a mixed cocktail of problems to deal with, it's not fair to generalize and assume they can all be taught good study habits, reading mechanisms or pneumonic devices. Id that's what you meant, that is. :)

However, until we get rid of No Child Left Behind, none of this will get any attention. Resources are limited and at this time our resources are going into test prep rather than differentiated instruction.

So lobby your reps to get rid of NCLB. That's a far more productive use of our time these days.

Spell edit. :blush:

The bane of education are the wrong assumptions in NCLB. It was obviously written by people who spend no time in the classroom!

not just for those with dyslexia or other learning disabilities.

There is no "one-size-fits-all" way to teach, or to learn, despite the current push to standardize every breath we take in the classroom.

In order to make sure that all students have access to multiple ways to learn, and can use those ways that are the best fit for them, though, the U.S. must do away with factory schools.

The factory model just doesn't work with all students. You can't gather them in large herds and run them down a standardized assembly line and expect uniform results at the end.

There's plenty of research to back up the idea that people learn differently. If you want to create a system flexible enough to allow for different teaching and learning, you set up small classes so that each teacher is not spread out over so many students. That allows for more individualized instruction which can't be accomplished with large groups.

You allow teachers more planning time so that they can plan numerous approaches to whatever students are learning that day. Let's face it: when planning time is short, I'm going to do less planning. It's a fact of life.

You can also keep students with teachers for more than one year, which allows a teacher to get to know the student, and his/her learning style, and build with that, instead of starting over every year.

There are plenty of things to do to make sure that every student gets the opportunity to learn in the ways that fit them best.

For your original question about research, I would suggest googling some books and articles with the following terms: "right brain/left brain" and "brain research in education."

or maybe I am just more burned out than you are. LOL

I got a full day of rest yesterday, lol.

:hi:

Warning. Teacher bashing. Now we are pushing drugs on kids!! LOL :hi:

Go ahead and scurry off, rather than address a very real issue you'd rather pretend doesn't exist.

Again:

http://archive.salon.com/mwt/feature/2000/09/25/medicate/print.html
http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0614/p12s01-legn.html

I know the facts and I know if this problem exists or not. You don't need to educate me.

You know everything, and this can't possibly be happening, despite anecdotal evidence and media reports.

If only I could be omniscient too. :eyes:

Not ALL teachers. Just those who think giving a kid a pill will make their day more pleasant.

I do think some kids benefit from prescribed meds. I also think some are misdiagnosed for various reasons.

Since we aren't educating them now, doesn't matter what style we're using.

ones, the solution was to ignore it and keep pushing her, today she still can't add for shit and she HATES anything to do with math with a passion, had they constructed a program specifically for this problem who knows what would have happened. BTW she's an amazing artist!

I was told repeatedly that "I'm smart so I should just try harder in math" well after years of just trying harder I gave up. It gave me a bunch of trouble in advanced science courses, I could understand the theory but couldn't do the math. I wanted to study biomechanics in grad school but had to resign myself to the fact that I would never succeed because I simply can't do the math involved with it. It's hard to go back in your mid 20's and re-learn something you weren't properly taught as a child.

Multiple Intelligence Theory?

It's interesting stuff. It suggests that there are multiple ways of thinking and looking at things, and that each individual will be stronger in some than others. What I have found, both in my family and professional experience, is that the "verbal linguistic" people (myself and my family included)are usually not as strong mathematically, and the "mathematical/logical" people often are not as strong in language-related things. It's much less common to be strong in both.

There are ways to teach and learn math for those of us who aren't mathematically inclined, but that's not the way traditional math curriculum is taught. I skipped a grade in school and still hated math with a passion all the way through college. When I became a teacher, I deliberately sought out ways to teach that made sense to me, knowing that if I didn't love the subject, neither would my students. I found them, and math became a favorite subject in my classroom for both students and teacher.

I'd love to see that opportunity out there for all.

my daughter's magnet school uses that as its teaching basis.

but once she leaves elementary, I'm fearful of what she will encounter in junior high.

The good news is that there is that there is beginning to be more widespread recognition that traditional structures don't benefit all students, and there are discussions about various ways to restructure. One such discussion focuses on the research that shows K-8 schools to be a better environment for learning than traditional jr high/middle schools. I've worked in K-8 schools since about 1985, and they are becoming more prevalent. I currently teach 6th - 8th in a small K-8 school.

The bad news is that change to a massive set of systems around the nation takes time, and you may not have something different in place in your area by next year. I'd start by looking, though. Look for magnet schools, "schools of choice," or just neighborhood schools structured differently that would take a student transferring from outside the boundaries. Those are all real public schools, not private or charter, (in most cases), that have a different kind of structure or focus.

I'd also look for ways to build your daughter's number sense outside of traditional tutoring or remedial programs. I skipped a grade (first) because I could already read, and spent my entire school career struggling with math and hating it. It wasn't until college that I realized I actually could DO math successfully, although I never learned to like it. It wasn't until I started teaching math, searching for different ways to teach it, that I realized math could be FUN, and everyone could be successful. While I passed all of my college level math courses, it was teaching 2nd and 3rd graders through inquiry-based math programs that actually helped ME to develop better number sense, and to realize what was missing from standard curriculums.

has been identified as G/T, yet struggles with math. We've placed her in ALC (Area Learning Center) and in summer school simply for keeping up the math skills.

She's also very talented in art - I think it's the left/right brain connundrum!

ways to teach addition, and adding more than one column for second and third grade. i have watched the schools, grade by grade using different methods to teach the children. some of them really fuck with the kids and a lot of them absolutely fuck with the parents as we try to help our children.

as an example, my youngest learning addition. they had him doing so much shit, he was so messed up i had to tell him to knock it off, do it the traditional way. my oldest is add or somethig, foggy brain i say and never learns in the tradition way. especially math. he needs it told him many ways until he can "see" it and that is always up in the air what is going to grab him. so using all these different methods is a huge pluss for my older, it is a determent for youngest

my oldest learning problems, i refused drugs from beginning and we worked on tools for him to use, recognize when the issue reared its head and address. not that we would ever "fix" him, not going ot happen, nor do i want to cause in other ways allows a genius we love. it is who he is. but he is never to use it as an excuse and for years i have been telling him he is not to be accomadated and to look at it as a weak muscle that needs to be exercised. no feeling sorry for. he never has to study, little is hard for him, reading adult, photomemory, test a breeze and doesnt study.... so this is where he has to work. another has to work on their thing.

but i want to clearly say.... schols are working their ass off to accomodate each and every child individually. there is not perfection, wont be utopia and all will not be a success... but the schools and teachers are trying

next i can tell you about youngest oddity, wink