Apple users are more liberal than Microsoft PC users.

This is interesting. I use Apple products and only know ONE conservative that uses them. My repub sisters absolutely refuse to use them because Gore is on Apple's board. Limbaugh has been using Apple for years. When DU polls are done on the subject, there seems to be a larger percentage of Apple users here compared to the general public.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/pcworld/20080117/tc_pcworld/141473

Elizabeth Montalbano, IDG News Service Thu Jan 17, 4:20 PM ET

People who prefer Apple's Macintosh computers over PCs have long been considered to be on the artsy, hip end of the personality spectrum-- and now a study proves that "Mac people" indeed are more liberal and open-minded than average folks.

According to Mindset Media, people who purchase Macs fall into what the branding company calls the "Openness 5" personality category-- which means they are more liberal, less modest and more assured of their own superiority than the population at large. Mindset Media helps companies with strong brands develop ads targeted to people based on personality traits or people's "mindsets," and does research to that effect.

So-called Openness 5 types tend to seek rich, varied and novel experiences, according to the company, and believe that imagination and intellectual curiosity are as important to life as more rational or pragmatic endeavors. They also are receptive to their own inner feelings and may experience life with more emotional intensity.

The company uses Nielsen Online's panel for the Mac mindset study, the results of which are based on responses from 7,500 participants.

It's no great secret that Macs have always been popular with creative types-- the computers have been the mainstay of creative agencies and video- and sound-editing houses for years. This probably has as much to do with the fact that Apple and partners have delivered popular software for graphic and multimedia designers and artists as it does with the contemporary industrial design Macs have long reflected.

<snip>

Guilty as charged.

Though this MacBook is my first, and drives me nuts sometimes.

But I still think Bill Gates is the devil, and modesty is a highly overrated quality.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

I never noticed :crazy:

Really. I'm not joking!



Okay, I'm joking about the naked part.

And maybe the "better than you" part.

But I use a Mac! So there! Fuck you!

.

there's only a few hundred Mac users in the entire USA ? :evilgrin:

Apple sold almost 1.2 million in the 3d quarter of 2007 alone, putting them at No. 3 only behind HP and Dell. Why do you make such a childish post? Why do you hate a blue company that is so close to Al Gore?

I'm a computer tech and Sound Engineer and some programs work great on Pc's and some work better on Mac's. (Sound Forge 9 is a good example)
I own both and feel they both have their place.
Sorry..I should have used the Sarcasm smilie in my post. :)

Big whoop. HP shipped 13.1 million and Dell 9.9 million units in the same period.

I will be the first to agree though that Mac users are "less modest and more assured of their own superiority than the population at large". I believe they also tend to fetishize their equipment more so than PC users (G4 Girl anyone?). I'm not at all certain that either of these things are reason to brag. But then again "less modest and more assured of their own superiority than the population at large" kinda explains that too....

Porsche doesn't sell as many units as Chevy, either.
By comparison, Apple does pretty well. And how's the
relative profitability of the several companies?

Tesha

O le wyt ti'n dwad?

:D I've always kind of made that connection too, actually. :shrug: A lot of liberal/creative/open-minded people I know seem to gravitate towards Macs. I tried, I really did - my senior year of high school I was required to use a Mac for one of my tech classes, and I never did get the hang of it. :shrug: Guess I'm a weirdo or something. ;) :hi:

rethugs have all the dough.

That ole' talking point is dead when you factor in the bundled software.

The people that still buy into that old talking point are still masturbating to porn on their home-made PC-store kludge-ware machines. You'll never convince them.

.

:grr:

Oh, wait...what were we talking about?

.

He lost, badly. He posted a chart to try to prove Macs were cheaper than PCs. The hardware in the computers on the chart was identical in the Mac-vs-PC comparison; each machine, Mac or PC, desktop or notebook, was using identical hardware. He did this because he took exception to my contention that merely similar PC vs Mac comparisons were all I could come up with, and he wanted to be a purist about it.... or something.

Three of the four PCs on the chart Atman posted trying to prove his point were cheaper than Macs with absolutely identical hardware, and two thirds of the PC notebooks were cheaper than their identical Mac counterparts- some by several hundred dollars.

I'd love to link to that post, because it showed how blindly (not to say, foolishly) devoted Atman and other Mac fanboys really are. Unfortunately, I've had no success pulling it up since; maybe the subthread got deleted or something. That the chart he posted proved the exact opposite point Atman was trying to prove apparently didn't bother him in the least, because here he is, spreading the same old lie that Macs are cheaper than their PC counterparts.

Here's the actual chart he posted; I can't find the post itself, but the chart Atman posted saying identical-hardware Macs are cheaper vs. PCs was so hilarious I saved it:



He remembers this, I'm sure. Atman is, on this subject, just plain wrong but won't admit it, I know how badly he lost the argument when I had it with him last time, and I'd like to spare that for everyone else. Atman truly does not know what he's talking about on this subject, so please spare yourself some misinformation and just don't listen to him.

Me, I'm running Fedora Core 8 with compiz-fusion installed, so my desktop makes Window$ Aero look like the truly amateur hack job it is. I also get most or all the features of the OSX desktop if I want them (including Expose)- oh, yeah, free- and can run most of my Windows software, including, I'm discovering, several of my Windows games (such as Command & Conquer 3 and Oblivion), via Wine. My PC, as Atman took exception to elsewhere on this thread, doesn't "use Windows" exclusively ("exclusively" being what the poster meant, and I think Atman knows that also).

Here's a pic. I have yet to see a Mac pull off even basic eye candy like this:



And while it's true eye candy really doesn't matter all that much, it's just fun to play with.

Oh, and Atman:

Sure, dude. Anything you say...you wanted to argue one thing, which was never what I was talking about. I made the statement that Macs are no more expensive than identically equipped name-brand PCs, but you could never produce an identically equipped PC. You want to argue about DIY machines, you insisted that the $19,199.00 was somehow typical of all Macs when you know full well it is not. I never denied that there was a $20,000 Mac, just that no one would ever actually buy one configured that way. You NEVER won that debate at all...you couldn't have, because you never compared identical machines. I posted half a dozen links to you PROVING you were wrong and you changed your criteria or outright ignored my links every single time, and finally settled on the $20,000 fantasy Mac as your "proof." Good god, man! At least pretend to be honest, okay?

:eyes:

.

"you insisted that the $19,199.00 was somehow typical of all Macs"

That's patently absurd on its face; I know I never said that.

I know I never used that as my only example, either, because at the time I recall trying to go to the ultimate extreme at the Apple store merely to prove how expensive they could get.

"You NEVER won that debate at all...you couldn't have, because you never compared identical machines."

Until you posted the chart above, which does just that, while trying to use it to claim Macs are cheaper than identically equipped PCs. Your chart above does show that Pcs are cheaper in those cases listed, equipped with identical hardware and with an additional OS, no less.

As I recall, you posted this right at the end of our little exchange- which ended with me noticing that the chart didn't say what you were trying to say it did. I recall no response from you following that observation. Were you embarrassed or something? I would have been if I made that sort of a slip....

I'm not going to argue with you about this any more. You're wrong, you know you are. Perhaps you would be better off talking about how Macs are better than PCs, rather than cheaper, because they quite clearly aren't.

"Me, I'm running Fedora Core 8 with compiz-fusion installed, so my desktop makes Window$ Aero look like the truly amateur hack job it is. I also get most or all the features of the OSX desktop if I want them (including Expose)- oh, yeah, free- and can run most of my Windows software, including, I'm discovering, several of my Windows games (such as Command & Conquer 3 and Oblivion), via Wine..."

My, doesn't your shit not stink.:eyes:

Look at that stupid desktop. While I CAN have a desktop like that, why would I want to? If I built my own PC, I could also have a case with neon lights and one of those silly little LED displays that tells you what the processor speed is. Again, why would I want to? That guy is whack when it comes to his PC. He's like one of those custom car guys...he lives it, eats it, breathes it, and therefore no one is worthy in his eyes. Even when six price-comparison articles were posted debunking his nonsense, he just couldn't accept it so started saying "Macs cost $20,000!" And he says Mac users have problems? :eyes:

.

and that's saying my shit don't stink?

Or are you objecting to my pointing out it was free?

Big difference there.

Even Mac users. What's the point? I didn't do anything at all special...

I didn't do anything special by setting FC8. I didn't do anything particularly special in getting compiz to work; it just did. I didn't even do anything special by making my Win apps work in FC8; there are dozens of help files and HOWTOs online that can help anyone do all of that- that's how I learned how to do it.

Unless you think linux users are more special than others, that we have something we can "brag" about....? Other than it being free, of course; that is something to "brag" about. Or talk up, depending on how you feel about linux in general.

Bragging? I just don't see it like that at all.

While your citing all these FC8s, and other shit I never heard of, take time to check out DSM IV, indexing NPD.;)

Does this apply to the OP as well or only PC users?

:crazy:

Or for a little more. I hate it too, I love Macs, but Apple hardware is consistently over-priced.

You can have it.

I'd rather have both.

Apple is overcharging on hardware, they make good profits because of it. Any company with a devoted cult of followers will do well and not have lower its hardware prices.

Oh, wait...no it isn't. And if you fart while you're online Microsoft demands that you reinstall the OS and send the fingerprints of your first-born along with your passport and birth certificate in order to reactivate it.

But DAMN, home-made pc's can have glow-in-dark cases!

.

What's your point?

.

like the post I was replying to stated. Thought it was pretty obvious.

My guess is ZERO! Macs can run Windows, Linux, or the Apple OS.

Don't know about using mac's OS, though.

No, I didn't get it either...but it certainly was his point.

.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSx86

Haven't got it to work on my hardware yet though. :(

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?st=processingtime%3A%3E1900-01-01&qp=crootcategoryid%23%23-1%23%23-1~~q70726f63657373696e6774696d653a3e313930302d30312d3031~~cabcat0500000%23%230%23%2311a~~cabcat0501000%23%230%23%2329~~nf408%7C%7C24353030202d20243734392e3939&usc=abcat0500000&nrp=15&type=page&sp=%2Bcurrentprice+skuid&sc=abComputerSP&id=pcat17080

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?nnmm=browse&mco=7B72367C&node=home/shop_mac/family/mac_mini

The PCs blow the Mac Mini away in specs. They're simply faster.

Are you seriously denying that PCs are more cheaper? Take a look at laptop prices.

some of those Wal Mart $39.00 CD players. Junk that will wind up in the dump in 6 months.

duty as a Linux Box. The only upgrade I did was to extend the memory to 1gig... that's it.

Operationally, it is now faster than my new Windows laptop and the Macs I have worked.

Did I mention Ubuntu Gutsy Gibbon looks amazing!?

My family recycles PCs as it is far far cheaper to do this... not to mention the environmental benefits.

I will keep the $500 and spend 99 on a used box and install XP or Linux.

My kids get their own computers and my home stays happy.

The Apple proprietary business model will eventually be its downfall.

You get what you pay for.



.

Both use Intel... but the $600 PC is going to be a real heck of a lot more powerful for the price; even if Windows is running on it.

My POC, which I did DIY for $1000, would cost $2000 at Best Buy, and for a "Mac" would cost about $3000. (then come the dual quad-cores, of which are better suited for servers and at the point, nobody's going to fart around with some brand that dances at end users and not businesses...)

http://www.google.com/search?q=quad+core+macmall&btnG=Search


It is YOUR argument that is dead.

no moniter, keyboard or mouse included. Add those and it takes your cost to $1296, not counting shipping.
If you go with an iMac, base is $1199.
The base DELL "All In One" Desktop is $1299
Either way you go...is not cheap

The theory behind the Mini, of course, is that most people,
especially "switchers", already have one or more monitors,
keyboards, and meece lying around, so why provide yet another
set?

And you seem to have proven that an iMac is a better deal
than a Dell.

Tesha

By this new description, you count on a switch user, but that wasn't stated initially.
If you are a new user the info is more correct by my assertion, that it's not such a great deal (ie: no greater than
what the other companies have offered for years.
and to the parting thought of the better deal...not really on this point either:

Dell All-In-One (base):
2GB2 Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz
250GB3 Serial ATA 3Gb/s Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™
Intel® Core™2 Duo E4500
TV Tuner & Remote ControlHybrid Analog/Digital TV Tuner with Remote Control
20 inch widescreen

iMac (base):
1GB DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz
250GB3 Serial ATA 3Gb/s Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™
2.0GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
ATI Radeon HD 2400 XT with 128MB memory
20-inch widescreen

....the DELL even has a TV tuner w/ remote built in

I only stated that the reason Apple omits all those extras
(keyboard, mouse, and monitor) with the Mini is that the
expectation is that it is a "switcher" buying it. This
is absolutely true and was stated explicitly by Apple
when they announced the Mini.

I wasn't particularly defending the pricing of the Mini,
simply fending off your jibe about how poorly-equipped
it is. Whether it's worth it to you is a decision you
can make.

Personally, I wouldn't buy a Dell if you paid me, but
lots of DUers see no problem shipping their money to
RED companies that then lobby against our positions.

Tesha

Macs are always more expensive then PCs, you fool! Man oh man...he'll really put you in your place now. He might even show you his big, throbbing 3D desktop!

:rofl:

.

they'd be investing their money into building their own computers, rather than wasting it on the overpriced products that apple produces..

:-)

but that just shows how much you know about the computer market in general. (Basing that on one sentence, of course. If you are more in tune with the computer world, i'm sorry)
You can purchase your own custom computer, and not have to build it, if thats what you want.

not have risk upsetting your balance.

It's just a computer.

I'm just offering my opinion on a forum, like you..

A computer is a tool.

They depreciate rapidly*.

Anyone who thinks they are an "investment" isn't very smart, no personal offense. Can your pricey Mac of 5 years ago run today's software? Unless it's the word processor and web browser, I highly doubt it.


* which was the reason why I, with no credit, couldn't get a loan for a Quadra 840AV back in 1995 despite my wage and job...

OMG, the Toad really wanted a mac at one point... (well, at the time, Macs were more stable than Windows (3.x), had cool AV functionality, had superior Motorola processors, used superior SCSI architecture...

Fortunately, as Apple cheapened the specs but never lowered the cost, I felt better about ultimately not getting the loan or buying into that empty little company. Pawning imacs due to colorful cases with the fruit nicknames, ditching SCSI, pimping Motorola until the day they switched to Intel, which was the magical day when Intel was the faster entity (well duh, they switched from Motorola-centric code to loosely translated Intel code onto a Motorola processor!!)

Then came the ipods with the shit battery technology...

Greenpeace hates them, Dell and HP and others were green long before Apple buttkissed their way in...

Dozens of reasons to legitimately dislike Apple and too many people understandably phony up a love -- probably because they wasted so much money in it. Just like how I had with OS/2 until I dumped it, so I sure as hell can relate...

"Can your pricey Mac of 5 years ago run today's software? Unless it's the word processor and web browser, I highly doubt it."

Um...yep. No problem.

You seem to have lots of issues with your ability to finance a Mac purchase. That's not Steve Job's problem, dude, it's yours. So you're a cheap bastard with shitty credit. While there may be dozens of reasons to legitimately dislike Apple, your inability to afford their products isn't very high on most user's lists.

.

Strangely enough, our now-quite-old G4/500 runs modern software.
(I'm not sure exactly when we purchased it, but it was introduced
on 2000.02.16 and bought shortly after that so it's almost eight
years old now.) To date, we've had no problems running *ANY* of
the latest versions of any of our applications.

I haven't yet tried putting Mac OS X Leopard on it; officially,
it's too slow to be supported but I'm expecting that to work also,
just like our Wall Street continued to work way past the officially-
supported versions of the system software.

We're rev'ving up to replace the G4/500 (probably with a
big-screen iMac, otherwise with another mini-tower) but it's
given us many years of good service and will probably retire
to a quiet life of being a file server.

Tesha

A computer is a tool.

They depreciate rapidly*.

Anyone who thinks they are an "investment" isn't very smart, no personal offense. Can your pricey Mac of 5 years ago run today's software? Unless it's the word processor and web browser, I highly doubt it.


* which was the reason why I, with no credit, couldn't get a loan for a Quadra 840AV back in 1995 despite my wage and job...

OMG, the Toad really wanted a mac at one point... (well, at the time, Macs were more stable than Windows (3.x), had cool AV functionality, had superior Motorola processors, used superior SCSI architecture...

Fortunately, as Apple cheapened the specs but never lowered the cost, I felt better about ultimately not getting the loan or buying into that empty little company. Pawning imacs due to colorful cases with the fruit nicknames, ditching SCSI, pimping Motorola until the day they switched to Intel, which was the magical day when Intel was the faster entity (well duh, they switched from Motorola-centric code to loosely translated Intel code onto a Motorola processor!!)

Then came the ipods with the shit battery technology...

Greenpeace hates them, Dell and HP and others were green long before Apple buttkissed their way in...

Dozens of reasons to legitimately dislike Apple and too many people understandably phony up a love -- probably because they wasted so much money in it. Just like how I had with OS/2 until I dumped it, so I sure as hell can relate...

I work with non profits, which pay less than the for profit market. Almost everyone I know through work has a mac at home, though PCs at the office.

anyway.

so we are really quibbling between middle and upper middle.

all kinds of international travel on shoe string budgets. They practically live on rice and beans, buy used clothes that they wear through to the threads. But they have traveled the world. And have macs.

If you're truly in poverty, mac vs pc is no different than rolls vs bmw.

But there's a LOT of room between poverty and wealth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Laptop_per_Child



There's talk about making the OLPC program available
to America's poor.

Tesha

that would work equally well in countries with existing infrastructures, such as America.

The OLPC units were designed to last better in harsher environmental climates... America isn't exactly desert terrain, so why not just sell disused computers here at near-giveaway prices?

The fact that John "death squad" Negroponte's brother is in charge of the project is greatly disturbing. :scared:

I've used an OLPC XO; it didn't seem to have any secret fascist
features nor did it appear to be recording my votes in online
polls (unlike, say, DU). And it has little LEDs next to the
microphone and video camera that are connected to the hardware
in such a way that if the camera or the microphone is switched
on, the associated LED is *FORCED* to illuminate.

Tesha

I mean, we're not all rich like you mac supporters are...

:shrug:

Garage Band, music mixing and editing.

iDVD, DVD editing and authoring.

iTunes, for ripping and burning music.

iMovie, digital movie editing and compositing.

iPhoto, digital image manipulation and cataloging

Pages, full-featured MS-Word compatible word processing and graphic document creation.

Keynote, Mac equivalent of PowerPoint which saves to PP format.

There are plenty of other apps that come pre-loaded on Macs -- chat, mail, browser, etc -- that Win users would have to pay for separately.



Do the math. Assemble a suite of similar software and add it to the price of your WalMart PC. Apple brings it all to the masses in one easy-to-use and easy-to-learn package which would be completely unaffordable to those users you seem so concerned about. It's just a fact, Toad.

.

Almost everyone I know who has a home computer has a mac, and they're not rich.

Or are we just making random assertions? 'Cause that's fun. Watch!

Most major motion picture studios are now using non-Apple hardware and software for their computer generated effects. And I have an example! Square Pictures animated Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within using a server farm consisting of "four SGI Origin 2000 series servers, four Onyx2 systems, and 167 Octane workstations. The basic movie was rendered at a home-made render farm which consisted of 960 Pentium III-933MHz workstations". (Courtesy of wikipedia, full article at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy:_The_Spirits_Within ).

Cool huh?

Springsteen, Susan Saradon, Stephen King, Barbara Streisand, Ted Turner,Yoko Ono, and thousands of other liberal millionaires and Billionaires. I know just as many poor conservatives as I do poor liberals-more, probably. The difference is that repugs are greedy and will do anything to gain more wealth for themselves and take as much away from other people as possible. It's not enough for them to have money-they want everyone else to be poorer than they are. The poor repugs are stupid enough to believe that they'll win the lotto any day now, so they back the uber wealthy at their own expense, thinking that they'll soon be among their ranks. Liberals make their wealth by doing what they love. They don't love money for money's sake.


Macs aren't that expensive, and they save you LOTS of time in avoided aggravation. Mine has never locked up or had any significant problems in six years.

They are SO cool.

:P :hide:


which reminds me, I need to put linux back on my laptop... Hmmm, think I'll go with debian...



* if you're trying to read into my post, then stop. I'm not an America hater... I love mickey mouse.

Does that make me a centrist? :D

Apple's much better than windoze, but linux rocks the geeks! http://www.ubuntu.com/">Ubuntu makes it possible for the digitally challenged to easily join the ranks of creative anarchy that is destroying the corporate stranglehold on open communications.

Welcome to the next evolution.

and went straight into PCs. It became a badge of honor to be able to discuss IRQs, DMAs, configurations, autoexec.bats, and lots of other techie stuff. I became the "PC person" long before many help desks were set up to help newbies. I had to work on a Mac several times, but I guess the geek side of me preferred to understand all the technical stuff, rather than get by with little to no real knowledge of the medium with which I was dealing.

I still prefer PCs, and I find Macs frustrating. I know I'm not normal, but who ever says I wanted to be? ;)







PS: I don't think I could explain a DMA or IRQ much anymore, but I can explain codecs, DVD-r, DVD+r, almost any software, Photoshop, plugins, P2P, and lots of other stuff which is now so much more important. :D

Or do I have to become a Republican first?

LOL at that article, it's completely ludicrous. Most graphics people are trained on Macs, so they continue to use them after graduation. The same software runs on the PC. It's exactly the same. The choice has exactly nothing to do with politics. I use PC's because they have more bang for the buck (I build my own), and because 3D Studio Max only runs on Windows.

do graphics better. Maybe it was true in 1997, but not now.

at handling graphics than the other platform can ever hope to manage. The inherent flaws in the windoze architecture (none of which are addressed in that abomination called vista) guarantee that it will always suck.

in china and they make crap for everybody including Dell and all the other pc companies.

;)

But i do admit, I was sweaty.. at some point during the assembly! :P

Apple iPod factories reportedly ‘sweatshops’

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13357555/

Apple Computer Inc. is having an iPod-related public relations headache this week, following a report by a British newspaper on working conditions at Chinese factories where the popular music player is built.

The Mail on Sunday reported that a Chinese factory that manufactures iPods employs 200,000 workers who live in dormitories where visitors are not permitted. Workers toil for 15-hour days for as little as $50 per month, according to the article.

As Mac fan sites buzzed with debate over the report, Apple issued a statement saying it is investigating the matter.

Breeze my husband works for Apple and before that he worked for Compaq and his very first job was at NEC.

And for Date General, Raytheon... etc. ;)

;)

Analog Devices Wins Intel's Preferred Quality Supplier Award

Business Editors/High-Tech Writers

NORWOOD, Mass.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--April 6, 2004

Analog Devices, Inc. (NYSE: ADI) was named a recipient of Intel Corporation's Preferred Quality Supplier (PQS) award for outstanding performance in providing products and services deemed essential to Intel's success. The company was awarded for its efforts in supplying Intel with analog integrated
circuits.

"For the 4th consecutive year, Analog Devices has distinguished itself by winning the PQS award and role modeling supplier excellence," said Jeff Jones, Director of Intel's Integrated Circuit Procurement and Enabling Division. "Analog Devices continues to set the standard for high quality, innovative semiconductors and flexible business solutions with superior execution of Intel's development requirements."

"It is an honor for Analog Devices to be considered as a best-in-class supplier to Intel," said Vincent Roche, Analog Devices vice president for Worldwide Sales and Marketing. "Achieving this honor for four consecutive years shows that Analog Devices can be counted on to consistently deliver innovative products and solutions to the PC market."

more...

-

Massachusetts

http://www.intel.com/intel/location/USA.htm#Massachusetts

Cambridge Center 1
One Cambridge Center, Suite 11
Cambridge, MA 02142
USA


Hudson 1
75 Reed Road
Hudson, MA 01749
USA
Tel: 978-553-4000


Hudson 2
77 Reed Rd
Hudson, MA 01750
USA
New Hampshire


Spitbrook 1 Office Bldg
110 Spit Brook Road
Nashua, NH 03062
USA

If Apple manufactured them in the USA the prices would be even higher, and then you would complain that the iPod was too expensive. Apple, thanks to our politicians, is no different than any other manufacturer. They have to compete with everyone else who has moved production out of the country.

to make a seamless display. :silly:

"less modest and more assured of their own superiority than the population at large."

they are only average as far as quality goes.

I own a macbook. I could have gotten a far superior product if I hadn't gone with apple.. and I regret my decision.

A lot of people claim that macs are superior because they are so user friendly, but they're really no easier to use than any PC.

a single person who switched from Microsoft PCs to Mac who reverted back.

Macs can also run Windows or Linux operating systems. Are you talking about Macs from the old days?

My boss had to buy a new copy of windows and then figure out how to install it and work with it. For most non-computer savy people this is too much of a hassle.

He got fed up, returned it, got a Windows laptop that he could use right away and now, frankly, I look like an idiot for suggesting he get a Mac :(

Yes, I think Apple is better- but only for people with a clue.

actually "switched".

Like another poster said, I've never seen someone convert to Mac ever convert back.

That said, I can't believe the intensity of feeling threads like this generate.

I had hoped he would love it and then the whole office could go apple. But instead he became frustrated.

and I couldn't be happier now with the dual-boot option! I can install Linux in the future if I wanted to do that as well...

...the "E-MU 1616" work better with software on Pc's than Mac's.
With Video it's the opposite....

Me too.

Fundamentally, they're both the same to me. Although I do see a replay of the Pepsi vs. Coke wars from the eighties in all this... the marketers for both companies have pretty well wrapped their target demographics around their little fingers.

That was a valid war, the products are very different- Coke is good, Pepsi SUCKS. I would rather drink warm water.

Many people...many companies want things that will run standard software right off the bat. I was hoping to have the entire office switched to Apple but it's not going to happen now.

It is to frustrating to non-tech people to have to figure out. The reality is most programs are built to run on windows.

Why didn't he just boot into Windows? Your tech department sounds like a bunch of morans.

.

There are tons of industry-specific programs that are created to run on Windows & Windows / DOS machines.

When personal computers were first introduced into my place of business, all of the people who were selling software were pushing hard for PCs.

What Accounting software did Mac run on in 1984?

What billing software do we have now?

Our office consists of 3 people. It is a very small business. There is no "Tech Department". My boss is a very nice, older gentleman, he does okay with very basic computer things. The apple did not come with windows installed.

He is not an idiot, thank you very much, he just isn't very tech savy. To him every moment he wastes he loses money. That's how it is when you own a small business.

I hope you realize what a jerk that post makes you sound like.

they have far, far fewer problems than PCs. I've talked four former PC using friends who were sick of crashes, lockups and viruses on their PCs into switching to Mac. Their only regret is not switching sooner!

I have an intel based PC and it also runs windows programs just fine. I don't really need any Mac software because there are more software programs written for Windows than for Macs. In all fairness liberal also buy PCs, which I am one. This is really a silly debate that in the long run is meaningless. If you own a Mac great, if you own a PC based on Windows or Linus great. Who really cares but the person who bought the machine in the first place.

What I find frustrating is the superior attitude of Mac users. Mac owners don't have that much to brag about anymore considering the machines are now Intel based just like PCs and the availability of software is limited.

I do like your cats! Any particular breeds or just your typical friendly cats?

What the hell is the point of your comment? You dislike the Mac users who think their computers are superior because in fact YOUR chosen computer is superior? Or is it that you know your chosen platform is a POS and you're tired of being reminded of it?

Seriously...no snarkage...what is your point? Your machine is so superior that you're willing to debate it's greatness among Mac users? Don't you see that you're doing the exact same thing you claim you hate about Mac users?

:crazy:

.

There were several others in line who were Mac owners that were buying PCs.

I've seen lines to get rid of PC's at the dump on "Hazardous Waste Disposal Day," but I've never heard of a line to BUY one!

.

As I was one of the people in line buying a PC after trying out an iMac for two years.

Amazing!

;)

(Just busting balls...these stupid Mac/PC threads are like junk food...I know I shouldn't, but once you open the bag it's hard to stop munching)

.

It's amazing how when I shop everyone else is so much like me. :-)

> I own a macbook. I could have gotten a far superior product if I hadn't gone with apple.. and I regret my decision.

Why go on torturing yourself? Macs have good aftermarket
resale value so sell your MacBook. Buy a PC. Be happy.

After all, in all the history of computing, one or two
people have made the switch in that direction (from Mac
OS X to PC) and, heck, maybe even been happy after the
fact.

So please, stop torturing yourself and feel free to switch!

Tesha

Some years ago I bought my first laptop - a Vaio. Soon after I wanted to switch to Mac. So I sold the Vaio on Craigslist and bought what I really wanted.

I've been happy with my purchase ever since.

1. The case, which looks and feels cheaper than my budget Gateway model (MX8739) despite costing much more, isn't all that sturdy, nor appealing. Why not paint the case pink to complete the allusion it's the token metrosexual in the computer industry?

2. Why is best buy stooping so low?

That's a loaded question!

Having worked for Best Buy, they only stoop low.

can be counted on one hand with fingers left over.

You got a lemon... It happens. There are more reasons for owning one than not. They are easier and they are virtually virus free. Oh, and they are not more expensive. You need to be more liberal with looking for one... :-)

It only has one problem which really bugs me, but I can deal with it myself without having to pay for the ridiculous servicing fees they charge. (Ethernet plug doesn't work.. tried fixing it for hours on end.. can't figure it out. But I just use wireless where possible, and use my PC if there is no wireless available, like in my dorm)

The problem is, they *are* more expensive. For the same price I paid for this MacBook, I could have gotten a more powerful laptop if I hadn't gone with apple.
It doesn't bother me enough to go through the trouble of selling it and buying a new computer, I just won't be sucked in by Apple's silly advertising next time around.

After all is said and done, I like the MacBook. It is just, plain and simply, a ripoff when compared to alternatives. Its nice for somebody who has the cash and wants something that just works, though, I suppose.


And for the record, about half of the people I know who own macs also own PCs, and don't prefer one over the other. Also, I know plenty of people who previously owned mac, and went back to PC. It all depends on who you know, obviously.

The one thing that almost every last Mac user I personally know has in common is that they've bought into the whole Mac cult.

One friend of mine was boasting to me and a few others about his new Macbook and isn't it so superior to a Windows PC because it has a camera built in? We were watching a DVD movie and suddenly, the whole system locked up and was completely unresponsive. He cycled the power and after everything resumed, I made an aside, "so much for Macs never crashing or locking up..." and he insisted (fairly belligerently) that the system didn't freeze or crash.

A colleague of mine asked me if I knew how to fix her Mac--it had been stuck in pinwheel of death mode for a half hour. I didn't know, so I asked another colleague (devout Mac user) what to do. He refused to acknowledge there was a problem.

Me: "Do you know how to fix this?"
Him: "Macs don't do that, I don't know what you're talking about."
Me: "This computer right here <pointing> is frozen--how can you say they don't do that?"
Him: "You can try to argue this all you want, but I'm telling you, Macs don't do that. They never crash, they never hang up, they work perfectly 100% of the time."

Another friend, who has worked for Apple doing tech support or something similar insists to this day that Macs are flawless. She even insisted that to me while she was packing up her busted Macbook to send it in to Apple to get fixed.

And with 5% of the market, I'm sure Apple's doing something right.

And, I can't picture a PC/Windows user ever trying to make the claim that their system always works perfectly.

Click on a blank space, got to the apple icon, click on force quit, and click on the program in red type.:hi:

of death, it was due to software, not the OS. I have always had to use PCs at work, and it used to be when software hung, so did the OS. Haven't noticed that with Windows 2000, though.

for the last 5 years. I have had no problems. Do some people have problems, I am sure. It is an electronic device, running software written by humans. Is it better than a PC? That is subjective. I am happy with what I have, it works for me. Might not be for others, I would never insist that is. You are just running into the same type of people we have seen here lately- the unapologetic (name a candidate) supporter, who insists that their person can do no wrong.

capita than any other city I know of in just my observation.

Having spent time in San Francisco, NY and some other big cities, I just don't see the same laptops out in cafes, not to mention the ubiquitous white headsets. Whenever I'm in another city I just wonder where they are.

Again, not statistically sound in any way - just my observation.

:hide:

what do you expect?

It's a brilliant marketing strategy, and God bless you Apple people, but Jesus give it a fucking rest.

You would think that anything designed worth anything was only done on a Mac.

If we give you all Phillip Johnson glass houses will that shut you all up?

I just posted the article. I also posted that my repuke sisters refuse to use Apple products because of Gore, yet repuke Limbaugh still uses Apple.

Yep. People buy into the hype. You see the same thing with Harley Davidson. I ride a Harley, albeit it is a 23 year old Harley (and it runs stronger than when it was new). 10 or 15 years ago the mother company got into this imaging thing- Live the Lifestyle (fucking joke). Now a lot of real pricks ride Harleys- of course, only when the temp is above 65 degree (i rode mine to work today- as usual. 27 degrees, but no rain), and if the get in 50 miles on a weekend they think they are really something

On edit: I didn't ride today because I am billy badass, but because it is fun- and get 45 MPG.

Some of us just take exception to the misconception that Macs are cheaper than PCs. It's an oft-repeated lie. They are not.

larger percentage of left handed Mac users, something like 24%, I believe the national average is between 7-10%

Board members however....

My standard reaction to that photo is always the same as Homer Simpson's reaction to donuts.

In terms of "openness," I like the option of customizing my hardware and software.

So I use Linux.

Although the Apple & M$ folks would probably characterize us as anarchists, or at least anti-authoritarian.

"It said use MicroSoft 98se or better on the box, so I loaded Linux."

For those of us who are forced by economic necessity use older hardware, Linux is the only way to go.

Chugging away on my second-hand Thinkpad T30, using Kubuntu.

PC users and other infidels will go to the other place.

But now there is big confusion because Macs and PCs now each use processors made by Intel and Macs can run Windows and Leopard together in peace and harmony. It's all over the commercials.

(Apple product user since 1979? when I got my first Franklin Ace 1000 (Apple II knock-off).

:P

No we won't. Because, not only are we more liberal, intellectual, and superior, we are also atheists :)

http://www.whatwouldjesusdownload.com/linuxforchristians/blog.html

If Linux is good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me.

What you use has no bearing on your political leanings or openmindedness. And every platform has their share of narrowminded zealots. Mac zealots are certainly no exception and are often the worst offenders.

People use the tool that best gets the job done. For many people that is Windows and for others it is OSX, Linux, or another operating system. On my PC, I have Linux for everyday use and XP for those programs that don't have a Linux equivalent. And a second operation system helps if you are troubleshooting hardware.

Despite what those idiotic Mac commercials and MSM tell you, PC is not another name for Windows. That's a major pet peeve of mine.

As for architecture, I prefer the easy access, selection, and inexpense of PC hardware over PPC.

I do alot of gaming so Windows is a must have for me. Vista has been working real good, so I see no reason what so ever for me to switch over to Linux or OSX. The only problem it gave me was a driver update needed for the onboard sound which was a really easy fix, and didn't take long either. So far, its been an awsome OS.

PC users are used to accepting "the only problem was..." and then saying "but it was real easy to fix!" Apple users don't worry about drivers at all. Why should we have to FIX a brand new machine? Why can't it just WORK?

While that "fix" might have been easy for you, most people wouldn't even know where to begin. I don't know a PC user who doesn't have a story about their PC being in the repair shop for a week for some silly little problem. OTOH, I've never had to use the warranty on any Mac I've ever owned since 1987. Not once. I did have a hard drive fail on an old candy iMac, the one PC users say is not upgradable, so I went to Circuit City, bought a generic hd five times the capacity of the original, and replaced it myself in ten minutes. Because I know how. Most people don't, though.

I just got a new digital camera for Christmas. I plugged it into my Mac and it was recognized immediately with NO prompting of any kind, iPhoto launched immediately and my pics were transferred. Yet when I was at a friend's house a couple of weeks ago he wanted the pics we had taken and I was absolutely amazed at the steps he had to go through to simply transfer the files from the camera to his laptop. You'd think he was trying to install a new OS or something. It didn't phase him...he also likes using Live365 for music, one of the busiest, most ridiculous interfaces I've ever seen, instead of iTunes internet radio. Some people just LIKE complicated. It makes them think they have a more robust machine. Face it, Macs are simply TOO easy for some people. I love watching long-time Windows users with a new Mac...they're totally baffled, can't understand why simple tasks don't take twelve clicks like they did on their old PC.

.

or view them. Maybe your friend is just a putz.

iTunes is a bloating POS, btw.

You never seen a Windows box do anything but ask if you want to import the pictures, but I watched my buddy spend ten minutes trying to figure it out. Maybe he IS a putz, but like you, I saw what I saw. As for iTunes, it works flawlessly for me and does exactly what I need and want it to do, nothing "bloated" about it from my perspective. Once again, the same "putz" that uses Live365 does so because "he doesn't want to have to buy all his music from Apple." I hear this all the time...from people who don't have a freakin' clue. I buy SOME music from Apple because it's convenient and relatively cheap. But the vast majority of the music on my Mac is from non-Apple sources, either downloads or ripped from CD. But noooo, Mr. Putz was certain (even though I've been a Mac user since 1987) that he'd have to buy everything from Apple if he used iTunes.

Have you SEEN Live365? The interface is ridiculous, the way it fills your entire screen just to display a handful of listings...and then you have to use a pop-up window as the player...yet he thinks that's preferable to the totally clean, non-intrusive, minimalist interface of iTunes. Again, maybe he's a putz. But his thinking isn't uncommon. I hear the iTunes crap (about being forced to buy from Apple) all the time.

.

I have used iTunes on my windows system in the past. I simply don't like Apple's approach to interface design with iTunes. Sometimes less is just less.

So I looked up Live365. I wouldn't download it simply based on their website. Winamp is all I've ever needed. However, I don't see why Live365 is "Microsoft's" problem. There is a Mac version, after all.

I was pointing out that my PC buddy just seems to think that complicated means better and accepts that that's the way it should be.

BTW, Winamp doesn't have internet radio built-in, does it? That's the attraction...iTunes, like Live365, has tons of internet radio stations.

.

I could also stream my own music from my computer at home, remotely if I so desired, and felt it was worth the enormous energy bill. But the option is there.

I don't use my home stereo for anything anymore except as an amp for my computer, which is on the other side of the house. I have an Airport Extreme which sends my music wirelessly to my amp so I can listen to it in the whole house. Gotta love it!

BTW, I really just didn't know whether Winamp had radio pre-installed, since I've never had any reason to use it. More proof that my PC buddy is just a putz! Thanks.

.

My pc has a card reader (most new pc's have those now) I can just take the SD card out of the camera and put it in the card reader. A small window does come up asking what to do, I simply just click on "open folder to view files". If I hook it up by USB, Adobe Photo Photoshop Album loads up what ever pictures and videos thats on it automatically, at the same time the camera is being recharged.

I buy what works for me, and you buy what works for you.

Since I got a Mac Mini a couple of months ago, it seems to be "smoother" user experience, for some reason. They are not perfect machines. I had to force quit a few things, a few times, (Leopard might still be a bit buggy) but there really is not much in terms of frustration I experienced with Windows XP. I don't fell superior to anyone now, Windows XP was a good OS, compared to Microsoft's previous OSes. And a computer is a computer, though I like how my Mini runs really quietly. When I felt that I wanted to move on from there, I didn't really want to mess around with Vista, so I got a Mac Mini soon after Leopard was released.

I love my Mac Mini.

edit: And I love Spaces.

One thing I was frustrated about - the anti-aliasing of the fonts that OSX uses. When I was reading text, I was having a rough time with my eyes trying to adjust to the look of the text, like they were constantly trying to refocus. I installed XP using the dual-boot, specifically for the purpose of web browsing and reading text, but am still working on learning OSX for all other uses.

You can optimize it for the type of display you're using, set a minimum size, whatever. System Preferences > Appearance.

.

probably not a Leopard problem- the OS wasn't locked or a force-quit wouldn't work. Older versions of windows had problems with applications freezing the OS, but I don't think that is the case anymore.

learning curve when I switched to Mac. I am really impressed with Apple's products and as a result, have developed a loyalty to the company.

Unfortunately, I don't own stock.

What is this, 1997?

and have no reason to 'upgrade' or buy any more OS.

I downloaded Linux Ubuntu and I am also happy with it.

I use the cheapest stuff available to stay connected on the net. Macs would be great but my budget can't handle the price. I used to buy old Macs off ebay for cheap. But price-wise, the PC stuff is cheaper when you want to build from scratch.

operating systems- like linux- are still stuck in 1997 as well.

It's parsecs more user-friendly and intuitive than Mac or Windows.

I use an eMac at the office and a PC at home.

If you think about it only 3% of computer <although i do not consider a MAC a computer, more like a crutch for technically challenged people> sales last year were MACS. That means that 97% of the market was PC and by this article not liberals. That means the liberal culture is dead and the majority are conservative. I guess that is why i think this is one of the stupidest things i have ever seen on DU. Put it made for a nice chuckle.

> although i do not consider a MAC a computer, more like a crutch for technically challenged people

Oh Macs are computers all right. And they're used by some
of the most technically-sophisticated engineers and scientists.

But those folks want to use their computers to accomplish
their work rather than to make dinking around with the
computer the end goal. So they use Macintoshes, computers
that simply work with a minimum of dinking-around.

Tesha

i guess i forgot the "I'm just joking thingy" Please i know all about the Steve cult. I see it everyday and it still scares me. Apple is god everything else is blah blah blah. MACS are NOT computers. They are a device of mass worship to the black turtle necked god.

and a scroll wheel! I can understand why Apple took so long to create a mouse with more than a single button, some people get very confused when they're told that there's more than one type of 'click'. Sure, the 'Mighty Mouse' may be $50 instead of $5 for a 2 button optical scroll mouse for the PC, but the Mac version sure is shiny and purty. I'd imagine that CAD/CAM workers can get a lot more accomplished now that they're no longer confined to a single button.

The "scroll pea" on the Mighty Mouse also allows for
Y *AND* X scrolling and does it in much smaller steps
than a classical Windows scroll-wheel mouse.

But don't let the facts get in the way of a good rant.

Tesha

I didn't read your post about the mouse until after I posted mine...I like the way you ended it! :rofl:

It just amazes me the ancient bullshit these people bring up. The only think missing is the "Apple is about to go out of business!" posts and this thread would sound just like the 1990's. Pssst, Mac haters...believe it or not, Apple has actually made a few changes since you were in elementary school.

.

I didn't read your post about the mouse until after I posted mine...I like the way you ended it! :rofl:

Great minds and all that... :)

Seriously, I'm pretty happy with my wireless Mighty Mouse.
I keep waiting for the scroll pea to act up, but so far,
so good.

And there's no question that the degree of control offered
by the scroll pea is far superior to the rather-large steps
offered by the scroll wheel on most mice.

Tesha

In fact, I don't use a mouse at all. I use a Kensington trackball. It has 10 buttons, plus a scroll wheel, and customizable chording for different apps. But don't let any of that get in the way of your ignorant rant.

.

That until a year or so ago that Apple only produced single button mice for Macs? And that the software designed for Macs was designed to utilize that single button? And also, Apple's own website describes it as a 2 button mouse even though it has those extremely awkward customizable side areas. It's one of the chintziest mice I've ever used. I've used many sub $10 optical scroll mice that perform just as well and feel better in my hand.

How long have you been using Macs? I've been using them since 1987. I've never seen any Mac software designed to utilize the single button. You simply clicked twice to create a "right click." For contextual menus you'd press the option key along with your click. But special software? Nope.

Look, I'm not defending the Apple mouse. I haven't used one in nearly fifteen years, I simply prefer the trackball because it is better suited to graphic design work. My beef is with the incredible disinformation -- like the "software designed for single-button mouse" -- that is out there. Or the "Macs are more expensive" argument with never takes into account the fact that you're getting several hundred dollars worth of fully functional software. Or that somehow Macs are better for "creative stuff." It's just nonsense. I have Windows XP installed on the iMac I'm using right now, and I use it regularly to test web site designs, but even this thread is filled with "Yeah, but businesses need Windows!" stuff. SO WHAT? So do I.

In all fairness, my other son (not the musician listed below) writes software for both Macs and Windows, and found it easier just to buy a cheap PC and use them side-by-side. But that's not necessary or practical for most people.

.

Steve Jobs is a god now? Wow, chalk up one more sky daddy I have absolutely no belief in :)

You need a mac.

websites for 2007. I did not need a MAC to find that out.

"If you think about it only 3% of computer...sales last year were MACS. That means that 97% of the market was PC and by this article not liberals."

The article did not say all mac owners are liberal or all pc owners are conservative.

Nor did it say most liberals are mac owners, or most pc owners are conservative.

Mac owners tend to be more liberal - but none of your conclusions fall from that.

You actual math might be fine, but your reasoning is lacking.

Please tell me what the EXACT DEFINITION of more liberal is with your superior reasoning skills, i am sure you can input that into that little steve worship device there in front of you.

be very happy to participate.

Let me know if that happens.

Why are you? My upset is much worse than that little hissy fit.

"steve worship device".

Sorry if pointing out your failure in reasoning with the data provided troubled you.

I know i would not want to admit that MAC owners border on cult fanaticism either.

I'm sorry you have a hard time interpreting data and have construed it to be something it's not.

And though I'd be happy to discuss it rationally, I don't enjoy getting into an idiotic contest about what is just a computer.

But then again the whole deprogramming thing. I can't say i would have enjoyed that.

You don't really follow the industry much, eh? Check out sales figures of Apple laptops, just for starters.

.

showing last year sales of PC and MAC's. NOT LAPTOPS. never mentioned LAPTOPS. why do you bring up LAPTOPS. I hope the caps helped you.

OH AND STEVE called he wants your undying devotion to further perpetuate the cult. ALL HAIL THE MAN WITH THE BLACK TURTLE NECK. <so 60's by the way>

who cares?

:rofl:

People with higher educations tend to have more disposable income. I could never afford an Apple.

More education means you are more likeley to be liberal.

Apple: ONE manufacturer, ONE way of getting things done, ONE set of ideas. Everybody follows the mantra of "Steve Jobs knows what is best for everyone!" Planned obsolescence is the order for the day with Apple. The systems are overpriced, gimmicky, and deceptively marketed. Once you look beyond the glossy marketing material and their overtly smug attitude, you'll find yourself stuck in a hellish "our world, our way" approach to everything. Apple fanatics (not day-to-day users) are like Scientologists.

PC: Many manufacturers, many ways of getting things done, tons of ideas. Microsoft makes the dominant OS, but there are no restrictions as to what you can run: Linux (several types), Solaris, FreeBSD, etc. PCs can be upgraded! PCs have a wide range of prices! You can do whatever you want with the PC.

Macs are popular with the "creative types" because back in the 1980s and 1990s, there truly wasn't much of a choice. You HAD to have a Mac because that's where the software was. Over the last ten years, that has radically changed. Software always comes to the PC first and THEN to the Mac, unless you deal with Apple exclusives -- which are not serious tools used by serious professionals. (To be fair, there are professional shops that still use Macs because that is what they are comfortable with, and that's FINE; these aren't the ones out stroking Steve Jobs every chance they get)

Essentially, Apple has marketed their product very well. Lots of people want the pretty white headphones so they can feel "free" and hip. The fact that their products have taken off is just proof of our own cultural insecurity.

For me, I'll stick with the PC because I need to be where the technology truly is.

Or haven't used Macs since the old Macintosh system software
was superseded by Mac OS X.

How about it, ReverendDeuce -- Have you driven a Mac lately
or is this all based on faith?

Tesha

I've had it for a while (as evident by the fact that they don't make them anymore) and it runs OS X.

OS X is interesting and as it stands it is a solid platform. The unfortunate problem for is it is that there is, like Windows, a lot of legacy underneath. While the UNIX-like userland is present, it's mostly non-functional in terms of management. Try working with /etc; no dice. You've got to learn some new, arcane netinfo commands to do basic things.

I really don't like OS X. It's a pretty face, but the guts are a tangled mess of Apple/NeXT/BSD. It's really awful to try and manage.

And let's not even start talking about OS X in a corporate environment... whoa boy!

Oh good lord.

Fascism is an authoritarian political ideology (generally tied to a mass movement) that considers individual subordinate to the interests of the state, party or society as a whole. Fascists seek to forge a type of national unity, usually based on (but not limited to) ethnic, cultural, racial, religious attributes. The key attribute is intolerance of others: other religions, languages, political views, economic systems, cultural practices, etc. Various scholars attribute different characteristics to fascism, but the following elements are usually seen as its integral parts: nationalism, statism, militarism, totalitarianism, anti-communism, corporatism, populism, collectivism, and opposition to political and economic liberalism.

The Wiki is your friend:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

one click. Many UNIX apps run natively in OSX. I can run Windows, Linux, BSD along side OSX, or boot into those OS's.

Macs start at $599.

Your "natively" running "UNIX apps" have been ported to run on OS X. While the BSD underpinnings allow SOME clean-compiles of code, there typically needs to be adjustments made. You are not just downloading "UNIX apps" in binary form and running them...

As far as dual-booting, Apple releasing Boot Camp was a nice move for them, but you're still tethered to Apple's hardware lock-ins. Once you buy an Apple system, you are stuck with a dead-end piece of hardware.

my case. I then either use them for legacy or Linux. And I do use the shell for various tasks like maintenance, or shell scripts.

I'm not concerned with any lock in when the machine does what I need. I don't need to run OSX on some eMachine or other crappy shovelware computer. I want something I know will work every time. I don't need to play uber geek by building some computer from parts in hope that it will work properly. It is not a toy.

Macs are underpowered and overpriced. Feature wise, a day late and a dollar short.

Who said anything about building your own PC?

> Macs are underpowered and overpriced.

Strangely enough, a very recent article in PC World
said that the fastest WINDOWS laptop was a...

Macintosh!

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,136649-page,3-c,notebooks/article.html



Funny how real data works, ain't it?

Tesha