When you hear "small business", what comes to mind?

Here's why I ask..

Whenever there is "tax legislation" or "rebate" discussion, republicans always push for "small business" relief and special giveaways. Those plans always seem to prevail...at the expense of more money/foodstamps/aid to poor people and children.

When I hear "small business", I think of the strip mall donut shops, the family lawncare business, the dry cleaner, nail salons, beauty parlors, Mom & Pop mini-marts..

Click these links and scroll a bit to see all the businesses that qualify as a small business..some of these have more than a THOUSAND employees..

Personally, I do NOT see a business that cuts a thousand paychecks every pay period, as a "small" business..

I guess that any business that is not a GM or a Microsoft is somehow a "small business".:eyes:




http://www.sba.gov/idc/groups/public/documents/sba_homepage/serv_sstd_tablepdf.pdf

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=b6e780955530049be4cc0d0a0e391115&rgn=div5&view=text&node=13:1.0.1.1.15&idno=13#13:1.0.1.1.15.1.231.6

That's my first thought.

Also, small manufacturers, usually doing parts work to sell to larger manufacturers. That would be the 40 person shop that turns out widgets that are then bought by GE.

Make no mistake! Those elves are SLAVES!

Whodathunk it??

Generally it's somewhere in the tens of millions in revenue and anything up to 1500 employees depending on sector.

Here's the details

http://www.sba.gov/services/contractingopportunities/sizestandardstopics/indexguide/index.html

This makes sense really. For example an accounting software consultancy with 1500 employees is a powerhouse. An airline with 1500 employees is a bit player and an automotive manufacturer with 1500 employees is barely noticeable.

the image of a mom and pop outfit or small scale manufacturing or retail with fewer than 100 employees. If instead the public were aware that it's relative to the industry scales there may be less support for the "small business tax cuts."

It's hard for someone outside of a given field to grasp how a business with 500 employees (a common SBA standard) is a small business, never mind those with 1500.

Was always classified as a Small Business.

Microsoft, which aren't in my definition of small businesses.

the ones being benefited by the huge tax credits given away by the Farm Bill.

But small family farms are all they talk about when they are increasing Farm Bill support.

the strip mall donut shops, the family lawncare business, the dry cleaner, nail salons, beauty parlors, Mom & Pop mini-marts..


even if the ones you list are small businesses, they aren't exactly part of what's right with america either, they're part of why america is so physically hideous unless you're actually in a state or natural park or something, they're pretty much a blight on the land and they're mostly all open-mouthed knuckle-dragging republicans around here anyway, is there any good reason why someone should be putting dry cleaning chemicals on clothes for a buck instead of working in an honest job, um, not really, and don't even get me started on the mini marts, those folks are outright predators on the community

i don't think we need to pretend that a small business is necessarily any better for the country than a big business, in fact, i'd love to see a moratorium on ass kissing businesses of any size until such time as every WORKER had fair pay and health benefits

are at least "small".. Most of the family owned places are what supports that family, and may employ a few people.. they are "small"..

Do they do a great service to the community? maybe not.. Is it the government's place to prop up a small family business?

I would consider financial support to a LOCAL business that employed between 20-100 people who are NOT related to the owner. That DOES support a community.

lots of local businesspeople around here are destroying the quality of life for everyone, we don't need more strip malls, we don't need more nail salons (who even goes to a nail salon, these are surely money laundries), and we sure as hell don't need more developers

giving $$$ to these local businesspeople is giving money directly to the GOP, they are anti-smart growth, anti-worker, anti-democratic, anti-environment, and pro-development to the core

why don't we not worry about giving hand-outs to the guy with 20 employees (who will then donate a portion of those funds to the next bush/cheney campaign) and work on something that actually does support the community such as universal health care, limits to growth, public transport, and so on

small business is WAY down on the list of what we need to be promoting, most workers for businesses that employ 20 employers or less are not getting ANY benefits, these are the worst possible jobs and keep the worker mired in a trap from which there is no escaping

ast least BIG business is forced to provide health and retirement benefits

my husband's boss is actually a decent guy and not a winger, but he still offered ZERO retirement benefits for any worker not a family member until, um, don't remember the exact date, but around 10 years ago -- and they still can't get 401(K)s, they can't shelter as much in retirement as someone working for a large internat'l co. could

we need to stop celebrating small business, it's a myth that it's a good thing for the worker, it's actually worse than working for a big corp

not very "helpful" to their employees (if they have any), and other than providing for that one family, they don't help the local economy all that much... BUT they "are" what comes to mind when the government uses the term "small business" .. These same small businesses probably see little if ANY of the many tax relief measures that are usually written into most bills these days. the actual companies who end up with the lion's share of the money are not even SMALL, but they have been "made small" by the definitions used.

The small businesses and family farms are used a cover whenever the rich donors want more goodies from our treasury..

When the average person hear the terminology, they probably think of those small places, and think it's not such a bad thing for the small guy to get a break, but if they think longer, they may wonder./."why should that one-family business get a break that MY family does not?"..and they probably don't realize that businesses MUCH larger are the ones who are really hogging all the benefits.... If people knew that a conpany employing 1000 people was considered a "small business", and might be paying less than the corner donut shop, they might think twice about whether these loopholes were a good idea.

Prior to this venture, she had two other small businesses, a pet grooming and boarding facility and a nail salon. One of my brothers has his own painting business, the other runs a gift shop/coffee mill with his wife. All are very successful.

Truly small businesses probably cannot afford the accountants & lawyers necessary to hunt for those loopholes..

As a small business owner, I have to disagree. A thousand employees, in todays world of hyper-corporations and global mergers, doesn't even qualify as chump change. Despite that size, small businesses still employ most Americans and power our economy...as big and famous as the Exxon's, Microsofts, and Boeings of America are, the combined spending and employment powers of small businesses completely dwarfs those giants. At the same time, those small businesses don't have the armies of lawyers and tax professionals the big guys do, they pay more for all of their services and supplies, and they tend to survive on much tighter margins. A 10% yearly loss to a large company like General Motors has a painful, but short term effect on the company. They'll shed some jobs, dip into their corporate reserves, and keep on going. A 10% loss to a 1000 employee business will almost always kill it...forever. Since so much of our economy is driven by those smaller businesses, widespread losses in that sector will lead to massive nationwide layoffs.

Small businesses often are not corporations. They don't have big boards and aren't looking to make shareholders rich by bumping their stock price. Even at 1000 employees (and the VAST majority, including mine with 8 current employees, are MUCH smaller than that) they're often still run by only a handful of people.

As an example, my company writes computer software (mostly POS and web-connectivity) for retail stores, and we do a lot of business with regional and local grocery stores. One of my clients owns five smallish grocery stores in three local communities, and when you factor all of his employees in...from the butcher, to the checkout clerk, to the stockers and floor cleaners, and even the guys that do the ordering and the receptionists who take the phone calls...he has about 900 employees. Still, he runs the business himself and survives on about a 2% profit margin. He survives only because he sources locally and runs his stores as boutiques. To me, that's a small business. To his 900 mostly unionized employees, their entire future with the company depends on his ability to maintain that 2%. The same story is echoed across the country a thousand times over, and it's why small business gets the breaks it does.

The Great Depression didn't start when Ford's stock price dropped, or the coal companies laid off a few thousand miners. The Great Depression started when all the corner shoe stores, restaurants, grocers, and auto dealerships shuttered their doors.

because one real estate developer got 100% of their loans, year after year.

His business might've been in the multimillions per year, but his was classified as a small business because of his small number of employees and the fact that most of his work was contracted out. It didn't hurt that the SBA chief in the area was his good buddy and a left handed relative.

This made it impossible for any real small businesses in the area to get loans at reasonable rates to expand their businesses.

We have about 20 employees give or take. Despite what someone said upthread a tax break/refund wouldn't go to the republican infrastructure that is ruining the country. It would go to my boss, the owner, and he surely needs some perks for washing all the dishes in the damn place.

I thought we were small business.

I have a regular job and work some unusual hours, so as a consequence, I am trying to start a (real) small business to earn extra money. I am doing lawn care, have a whopping seven customers, who generally get their lawns done once a week as long as it rains, and I am doing it by myself. Obviously, since it is January and this is Iowa, I am not doing it now. Anyway, does that qualify as a small business?

family owned manufacturer I retired from in Oregon. Family-owned, less than 100 employees and struggling trying to continue health care for their employees even though the yearly increases cut ever deeper into the bottom line.