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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 01:09 PM
Original message
Hearing turns up the heat on Bush torture crimes
Edited on Wed May-07-08 01:56 PM by Texas Explorer
First, thank you minime for giving us the heads-up on today's Congressional hearing on torture. Here is the thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3254951&mesg_id=3255445

The testimoy of Marjorie Cohn:


Attention Mods: This is the testimony given by Marjorie Cohn, President, National Lawyers Guild and Professor, Thomas Jefferson School of Law, and is a part of the public record and domain:

Testimony of Marjorie Cohn before the
Subcommittee on the Constitution, Civil Rights and Civil Liberties House Judiciary Committee



What does torture have in common with genocide, slavery, and wars of aggression? They are all jus cogens. Jus cogens is Latin for "higher law" or "compelling law."

This means that no country can ever pass a law that allows torture. There can be no immunity from criminal liability for violation of a jus cogens prohibition.

The United States has always prohibited the use of torture in our Constitution, laws executive statements and judicial decisions. We have ratified three treaties that all outlaw torture and cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment. When the United States ratifies a treaty, it becomes part of the Supreme Law of the Land under the Supremacy Clause of the Constitution.

The Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, says, "No exceptional circumstances whatsoever, whether a state of war or a threat of war, internal political instability or any other public emergency, may be invoked as a justification for torture."

What does torture have in common with genocide, slavery, and wars of aggression? They are all jus cogens. Jus cogens is Latin for "higher law" or "compelling law."

This means that no country can ever pass a law that allows torture. There can be no immunity from criminal liability for violation of a jus cogens prohibition.

The United States has always prohibited the use of torture in our Constitution, laws executive statements and judicial decisions. We have ratified three treaties that all outlaw torture and cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment. When the United States ratifies a treaty, it becomes part of the Supreme Law of the Land under the Supremacy Clause of the Constitution.

The Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, says, "No exceptional circumstances whatsoever, whether a state of war or a threat of war, internal political instability or any other public emergency, may be invoked as a justification for torture."

Whether someone is a POW or not, he must always be treated humanely; there are no gaps in the Geneva Conventions. He must be protected against torture, mutilation, cruel treatment, and outrages upon personal dignity, particularly humiliating and degrading treatment under, Common Article 3. In Hamdan v. Rumsfeld, the Supreme Court rejected the Bush administration's argument that Common Article 3 doesn't cover the prisoners at Guantánamo. Justice Kennedy wrote that violations of Common Article 3 are war crimes.

We have federal laws that criminalize torture.

The War Crimes Act punishes any grave breach of the Geneva Conventions, as well as any violation of Common Article 3. That includes torture, willfully causing great suffering or serious injury to body or health, and inhuman, humiliating or degrading treatment.

The Torture Statute provides for life in prison, or even the death penalty if the victim dies, for anyone who commits, attempts, or conspires to commit torture outside the United States.

The U.S. Army Field Manual's provisions governing intelligence interrogations prohibit the "use of force, mental torture, threats, insults, or exposure to unpleasant and inhumane treatment of any kind." Brainwashing, mental torture, or any other form of mental coercion, including the use of drugs, are also prohibited.

Military personnel who mistreat prisoners can be prosecuted by court-martial under provisions of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. These include conspiracy, cruelty and maltreatment, murder, manslaughter, maiming, sodomy, and assault.

In Filartiga v. Peña-Irala, the Second Circuit declared the prohibition against torture is universal, obligatory, specific and definable. Since then, every U.S. circuit court has reaffirmed that torture violates universal and customary international law. In the Paquete Habana, the Supreme Court held that customary international law is part of U.S. law.

The Constitution gives Congress the power to make the laws and the President the duty to carry them out. Yet on February 7, 2002, President Bush, relying on memos by lawyers including John Yoo, announced that the Geneva Conventions did not apply to alleged Taliban and Al Qaeda members. Bush said, however, "As a matter of policy, the United States Armed Forces shall continue to treat detainees humanely and, to the extent appropriate and consistent with military necessity, in a manner consistent with the principles of Geneva." But torture is never allowed under our laws.

Lawyers in the Department of Justice’s Office of Legal Counsel wrote memos at the request of high-ranking government officials in order to insulate them from future prosecution for subjecting detainees to torture. In memos dated August 1, 2002 and March 18, 2003, former Deputy Assistant Attorney General John Yoo (Jay Bybee, now a federal judge, signed the 2002 memo), advised the Bush administration that the Department of Justice would not enforce the U.S. criminal laws against torture, assault, maiming and stalking, in the detention and interrogation of enemy combatants.

The federal maiming statute makes it a crime for someone "with the intent to torture, maim, or disfigure" to "cut, bite, or slit the nose, ear or lip, or cut out or disable the tongue, or put out or destroy an eye, or cut off or disable a limb or any member of another person." It further prohibits individuals from "throwing or pouring upon another person any scalding water, corrosive acid, or caustic substance" with like intent.

Yoo said in an interview in Esquire that "just because the statute says -- that doesn't mean you have to do it." In a debate with Notre Dame Professor Doug Cassell, Yoo said there is no treaty that prohibits the President from torturing someone by crushing the testicles of the person's child. In Yoo's view, it depends on the President's motive, notwithstanding the absolute prohibition against torture in all circumstances.

The Torture Convention defines torture as the intentional infliction of severe physical or mental pain or suffering. The U.S. attached an "understanding" to its ratification of the Torture Convention, which added the requirement that the torturer "specifically" intend to inflict the severe physical or mental pain or suffering.

This is a distinction without a difference for three reasons. First, under well-established principles of criminal law, a person specifically intends to cause a result when he either consciously desires that result or when he knows the result is practically certain to follow. Second, unlike a "reservation" to a treaty provision, an "understanding" cannot change an international legal obligation. Third, under the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties, an "understanding" that violates the object and purpose of a treaty is void. The claim that treatment of prisoners which would amount to torture under the Torture Convention does not constitute torture under the U.S. "understanding" violates the object and purpose of the Convention, which is to ensure that "no one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment." The U.S. "understanding" that adds the specific intent requirement is embodied in the U.S. Torture Statute.

Nevertheless, Yoo twisted the law and redefined torture much more narrowly than the definitions in the Convention Against Torture and the Torture Statute. Under Yoo's definition, the victim must experience intense pain or suffering equivalent to pain associated with serious physical injury so severe that death, organ failure or permanent damage resulting in loss of significant body functions will likely result.

Yoo wrote that self-defense or necessity could be used as a defense to war crimes prosecutions for torture, notwithstanding the Torture Convention's absolute prohibition against torture in all circumstances. There can be no justification for torture.

After the exposure of the atrocities at Abu Ghraib and the publication of the August 1, 2002 memo, the Department of Justice knew the memo could not be legally defended.

That memo was withdrawn as of June 1, 2004. A new opinion, authored by Daniel Levin, Acting Assistant Attorney General Office of Legal Counsel, is dated December 30, 2004. It specifically rejects Yoo’s definition of torture, and admits that a defendant’s motives to protect national security will not shield him from a torture prosecution. The rescission of the August 2002 memo constitutes an admission by the Justice Department that the legal reasoning in that memo was wrong. But for 22 months, the it was in effect, which sanctioned and led to the torture of prisoners in U.S. custody.

John Yoo admitted the coercive interrogation “policies were part of a common, unifying approach to the war on terrorism.” Yoo and other Department of Justice lawyers, including Jay Bybee , David Addington, William Haynes and Alberto Gonzalez, were part of a common plan to violate U.S. and international laws outlawing torture. It was reasonably foreseeable that the advice they gave would result in great physical or mental harm or death to many detainees. Indeed, more than 100 have died, many from torture.

ABC News reported last month that the National Security Council Principals Committee consisting of Dick Cheney, Condoleezza Rice, Donald Rumsfeld, Colin Powell, George Tenet, and John Ashcroft met in the White House and micromanaged the torture of terrorism suspects by approving specific torture techniques such as waterboarding. Bush admitted, "yes, I'm aware our national security team met on this issue. And I approved."

These top U.S. officials are liable for war crimes under the U.S. War Crimes Act and torture under the Torture Statute. They ordered the torture that was carried out by the interrogators. Under the doctrine of command responsibility, used at Nuremberg and enshrined in the Army Field Manual, commanders, all the way up the chain of command to the commander in chief, can be liable for war crimes if they knew or should have known their subordinates would commit them, and they did nothing to stop or prevent it. The Bush officials ordered the torture after seeking legal cover from their lawyers.

But Yoo and the other Justice Department lawyers who wrote the enabling memos are also liable for the same offenses. They were an integral part of a criminal conspiracy to violate our criminal laws. Yoo admitted in an Esquire interview last month that he knew interrogators would take action based on what he advised.

The President can no more order the commission of torture than he can order the commission of genocide, or establish a system of slavery, or wage a war of aggression.

A Select Committee of Congress should launch an immediate and thorough investigation of the circumstances under which torture was authorized and rationalized. The high officials of our government and their lawyers who advised them should be investigated and prosecuted by a Special Prosecutor, independent of the Justice Department, for their crimes. John Yoo, Jay Byee, and David Addington should be subjected to particular scrutiny because of the seriousness of their roles in misusing the rule of law and legal analysis to justify torture and other crimes in flagrant violation of domestic and international law.

http://mwcnews.net/content/view/22284&Itemid=1



For more from Marjorie Cohn go to http://www.marjoriecohn.com">MarjorieCohn.com.

From the http://judiciary.house.gov/newscenter.aspx?A=965">House Judiciary Committee:


(Washington, DC)- Today, the Subcommittee on the Constitution, Civil Rights and Civil Liberties heard testimony from a panel of witnesses who agreed that there is no "ticking time bomb" that justifies harsh interrogation techniques that were approved in Bush Administration legal memos. The subcommittee also voted to authorize House Judiciary Committee Chairman John Conyers, Jr. (D-MI) to issue a subpoena for David Addington, chief of staff to the vice president, for a future hearing on the administration's interrogation rules. The subpoena was approved by voice vote.

"Radio silence was the response when today's witnesses were asked to identify a single example of a true 'ticking bomb' scenario ever occurring, even though such scenarios are often invoked to justify torture," Conyers said. "These scholars, who have studied this issue extensively and have intimate knowledge of the legal authority the administration sought, could not identify a single example. I hope that the administration officials who have agreed to testify will shed some light on this and many other questions raised in today's hearing."

•  Professor Phillipe Sands described the impact of US interrogation policies and legal opinions on our standing around the world, recounting how a foreign president had pulled out a copy of a John Yoo legal opinion as evidence that US law permitted torture.

•  Georgetown Professor David Luban testified that the John Yoo interrogation opinions were so flawed – full of “hot air” in his words – that US agents were “misled” into believing their actions were lawful and people in US custody “may have suffered cruel and illegal treatment because of these memos.”

•  Professor Sands described an important visit by senior administration lawyers to Guantanamo Bay in 2002 – vice presidential aide David Addington was on this trip and Sands described him as the “leader of the pack.” Former Defense Department general counsel Jim Haynes was also on this trip, and Sands testified at length about how Mr. Haynes and the administration had improperly blamed junior personnel at Guantanamo for initiating and legally approving aggressive interrogation techniques when in fact, Professor Sands testified, those techniques were pushed from the top of the administration and based on legal approval from the John Yoo August 2002 memorandum.

•  Professor Sands powerfully described his experiences living in Great Britain during the peak of the Irish Republican Army (IRA) threat and how the British experience had led to a national and nonpartisan consensus in that country that torture was ineffective, counterproductive, and wrong.

•  All witnesses agreed that it is critical for the committee to continue to explore this issue and to document the facts and circumstances of the development an legal approval of US interrogation policy. Repeatedly, witnesses emphasized the need to hear from Mr. Addington, Mr. Yoo, and others.

"In future hearings we plan to hear from other key players in this process – including the vice president’s chief of staff David Addington, former Attorney General Ashcroft, and the author of several key legal memos, Professor John Yoo," Conyers added. "The subpoena that the subcommittee has just authorized for David Addington is thus a very welcome step and I look forward to hearing further testimony in this very disturbing matter."



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Dogtown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. Excellent read, TE
Tx++

:toast:
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. You should've seen the hearing. It was so exciting to
actually hear someone talking truth to power in front of a Congressional judiciary hearing that I nearly had a coronary from my heart racing.
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MiniMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. LOL, me too
I couldn't believe what I was hearing. It was wonderful, almost better than sex. Hey, I said almost.
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
2. this cannot be swept under the rug, and we all know
Edited on Wed May-07-08 01:20 PM by alyce douglas
THEY ARE WAR CRIMINALS period.

this particular statement should be plastered everywhere in the Congress.

"The President can no more order the commission of torture than he can order the commission of genocide, or establish a system of slavery, or wage a war of aggression".
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warren pease Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. And yet, this particular sociopath of a fraudulent president has done all four...
Torture: Check and check again.

Genocide: See "Shock and Awe" and subsequent campaigns of mass slaughter. Check.

Slavery: Multiple checks.

- See the prison-industrial complex. See the obscene "stop-loss" policy regarding troop rotations. See the "free trade zones" set up around the world specifically to enable unrestricted worker exploitation. See Saipan for specifics on the latter.

Wars of aggression: Ummmmm... That's a tough one, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Iraq, Afghanistan and the saber-rattling over Iran might just might meet that definition. Ya think? And maybe Israel's various proxy bombing missions against targets the Bushies pick out for them might belong on the list, too, eh?

So it seems this misanthropic imbecile, angry little prick, illiterate slob and the world's most dangerous international terrorist is four for four.

Good thing impeachment's off the table or we'd have a divisive national tragedy and election year distraction on our hands, not to mention the time it would take away from congress' tireless work on behalf on the people.

Oh and we don't have the votes and, since we can't guarantee the outcome beforehand, why take a chance?

Is there anything weird about these arguments, and the people who advance them? Or is it just me?


wp
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 05:32 AM
Response to Reply #8
39. it's not just you
very well put. i hope c-span posts the hearing
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #2
32. We'll be getting convictions before this is all said and done
These guys have painted themselves into a corner and like cornered rats there is no telling what they'll do next. These next few months are going to be some very worrisome times.
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electropop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
5. Amazing. Is she allowed to say that?
I thought the First Amendment had been repealed.
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MiniMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. She said it to a congressional committee while under oath
It was wonderful. I hope she doesn't fly in any small planes soon.
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
7. Self-kick for information added to the OP. n/t
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
9. They all should sit down and watch "Taxi to the Dark Side,"
and then immediately take steps to bring these criminals to justice. It's bad enough that all this torture has gone on in our names, but the fact that over 90 percent of these victims were not even captured by US or coalition forces but were instead turned in by Northern Alliance people, warlords and others purely for monetary gain (paid for with our tax dollars) is appalling. Basically, anybody with a grudge over there could get his neighbor sent to Bagram, Abu Ghraib or Guantanamo. Poor Diliwar, the taxi driver, dead within six days of capture -- guilty of NOTHING, his legs beaten to a pulp.

They violated even their own tortured definition of "torture," that is, stopping the "treatment" just short of death. Totally innocent people have died, they have suffered unspeakable pain and indignity, and yet the assholes at the top have gotten a free pass.

I'm so outraged, especially when it was disclosed at the end of the movie that hidden within the military tribunal act is language that absolves the administration from any criminal liability. How could we have let this happen?
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Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. Blue, were you at the movie the other day?
It was infuriating to say the least.
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Yes, we were...
My husband and I, with his 82-year-old mother, went to the 5:30 showing. We were all just livid when we left -- of course, we knew a lot of this already, but the way it was all put together was just gut-wrenching. If somebody -- several somebodies -- don't pay for this, then I think we are doomed as a nation. We have lost our soul.
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Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #15
31. I missed finally meeting you and your husband. Bummer
My wife was in a bit of a shock after seeing the movie. I still cannot for the life of me figure out why these people who are in charge are not in jail for crimes against humanity. Appalling.
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. We WILL meet eventually, Dave, I feel sure
unless the war stops tomorrow, which doesn't seem very likely at this point. Every time we hear of a protest, we're out there -- we may have met already at some point, and just not been aware.
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
10. Thank you, Marjorie Cohn
Edited on Wed May-07-08 02:09 PM by SpiralHawk
For setting out the facts. The republicons have violated every legal and moral code imaginable to do the same thing that happened to Christ: TORTURE.

What Would Jesus Do About Torture?
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
11. CSPAN REPEAT 3:25et
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Video link! A MUST SEE!! Thanks to pberq for the link
rtsp://video1.c-span.org/project/ter/ter050608_guantanamo.rm

If you have Real Player installed, clicking the link will open it automatically. If you don't, no luck for you for the moment but other formats should be available online soon.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #12
28. Thanks TE! and thanks pberq!
:applause:
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MiniMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Wow, I looked shortly after the hearing and that wasn't posted
They either got a lot of reaction to it or realized how important it is.
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. thanks seemslikeadream, wish it was on later.
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MiniMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. If its really popular, they will play it again and again and again

And I for one will cheer every time they do.
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MiniMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. If its cspan3, Hadley is still talking
So nothing yet. I plan on doing a post so everybody who missed it knows.
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MiniMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #11
21. Its Waxman's hearing they are re-showing, Oversight not Judiciary
Maybe the Judiciary will follow, then Alyce could watch it.
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Judiciary is Conyers committee isn't it?
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MiniMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Yes, but it was Nadler's subcommittee
Conyers was present and asked questions though.
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
18. 'If the U.S. doesn't address this,' ... (More Recs PLEASE! Important!)
Edited on Wed May-07-08 02:33 PM by Texas Explorer
Dan Froomkin, Washington Post:


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2008/05/07/BL2008050701806.html?hpid=opinionsbox1">Torture Showdown Coming?

-snip-


"Besides Addington and Yoo, the Judiciary committee also wants to hear from former Attorney General John Ashcroft; former CIA director George Tenet; former Under Secretary of Defense Douglas J. Feith; and Daniel Levin, a former Justice Department official. Ashcroft, Feith and Levin have agreed to appear, and Tenet is in negotiations with committee staff. It is not clear when subsequent hearings will be held."

Carrie Johnson writes in The Washington Post: "Lawyers for the vice president have sought to limit the subjects about which Addington can be questioned, and committee sources say the scope of his testimony remains under negotiation. A former legal counsel to the vice president, Addington was a key player in formulating antiterrorism strategies after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. He has not previously discussed his views or his role in public."

As Shane notes, the subpoena vote took place at a hearing Tuesday during which "law professors called for a full investigation, by Congress or by an independent commission, of the adoption of the harsh techniques.

"Philippe Sands, author of a new book on the approval of coercive interrogation by high-level American military officials, said that if no such inquiry took place in the United States, foreign prosecutors might seek to charge American officials with authorizing torture. Mr. Sands, a British law professor, said two foreign prosecutors, whom he did not name, had asked him for the materials on which his book, 'Torture Team,' was based. 'If the U.S. doesn't address this,' he said, 'other countries will.'"

-snip-


NOTE: This WaPo article is 5 pages long and is a good read and covers a lot of ground concerning Bush administration scandals, controversies, and crimes.

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MiniMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. We need recs on the hearing thread too
we need to send both to the top
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Already done did myself! =) n/t
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MiniMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. I rec'd yours too. ; )
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
26. kicking back to the top
because this is emblematic of the depths this Country has sunk to.
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Thanks annabanana! =) I was hoping for more interest and
more links and resources to relevant and related materials others may have. I'd like to see this thread develop into a DU resource on this topic going forward.
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
29. Law Professors: Only Jack Bauer Believes In
The ‘Ticking Time Bomb’ Scenario For Torture


From http://thinkprogress.org/2008/05/07/jack-bauer-torture">ThinkProgress.org

One of the right wing’s favorite talking points to defend torture is that it could be useful in a so-called “ticking time bomb” scenario. In 2005, for example, a “senior administration official” said President Bush’s signing statement waiving a torture ban was justified because a ”ticking time bomb” could necessitate the need for torture. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia recently endorsed “smacking someone in the face” if he were hiding “the bomb that is about to blow up Los Angeles.”

But in a House Judiciary Committee hearing yesterday, Rep. Keith Ellison (D-MN) asked three jurists who have extensively studied interrogations if they have ever heard of such a scenario. As Chairman John Conyers (D-MI) put it, they responded with “radio silence“:

-snip-

Video at link
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pberq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
30. War Crimes!
"These top U.S. officials are liable for war crimes under the U.S. War Crimes Act and torture under the Torture Statute."
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. Rumsfeld Shouldn't be Fired, He Should be Indicted
Rumsfeld Shouldn't be Fired, He Should be Indicted
by Matthew Rothschild

“Secretary Rumsfeld has publicly admitted that . . . he ordered an Iraqi national held in Camp Cropper, a high security detention center in Iraq, to be kept off the prison’s rolls and not presented to the International Committee of the Red Cross,” the report noted. The Geneva Conventions require countries to grant the Red Cross access to all detainees. “

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0418-24.htm




Further Evidence Rumsfeld Implicated in War Crimes
Please read this important post by Marty Lederman, Army Confirms: Rumsfeld Authorized Criminal Conduct.

Here's a key section, but there's more:

The Army's charges against Jordan reflect the view, undoubtedly correct, that the use of forced nudity or intimidation with dogs against detainees subject to military control constitutes cruelty and maltreatment that Article 93 makes criminal. It doesn't matter whether they are or are not "torture," as such; nor does it matter whether the armed forces should be permitted to use such interrogation techniques: As things currently stand, they are unlawful, as even the Army now acknowledges.

But then how can we account for the actions of the Secretary of Defense and his close aides?

On November 27, 2002, Pentagon General Counsel William Haynes, following discussions with Deputy Secretary Wolfowitz, General Myers, and Doug Feith, informed the Secretary of Defense that forced nudity and the use of the fear of dogs to induce stress were lawful techniques, and he recommended that they be approved for use at Guantanamo.

(The lists of techniques to which Haynes was referring can be found in this memorandum.) On December 2, 2002, Secretary Rumsfeld approved those techniques for use at Guantanamo -- and subsequently those techniques were used on detainee Mohammed al-Qahtani.

In other words, the Secretary of Defense authorized criminal conduct.

...

Today's Army charge under UCMJ Article 93 against Lt. Col. Jordan -- for conduct that the SecDef actually authorized as to some detainees -- demonstrates that Rumsfeld approved of, and encouraged, violations of the criminal law.

http://www.discourse.net/archives/2006/04/further_evidence_rumsfeld_implicated_in_war_crimes.html







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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
34. Impeachment of war criminals is off the table...
George is too "NICE"
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MiniMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. Not by International Courts
And that was was said in this hearing. "Friendly Allies" will prosecute this. It was such an enjoyable hearing to listen to and to watch.
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frogcycle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #36
46. Hey, maybe "Old Europe" will get the last word! n/t
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
37. I read this great thread earlier this afternoon
It was a great hearing. War Crimes are now on the record.
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-07-08 08:32 PM
Response to Original message
38. I wonder if Pelosi saw any of this? I wonder if she knows she's complicit?. . n/t
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 07:36 AM
Response to Original message
40. I just did a Yahoo News & Google search & not even a whisper of this hearing by major news sources.
We are so fucked.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 07:39 AM
Response to Reply #40
41. Torture crimes? What torture crimes? NEXT!..on American Idiot...
We now return to our regularly scheduled mind programming.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #41
44. I had some hope that Olbermann would report on it, no. He reported on Fox reporting on a woman
who had Huge silicon breasts.... as I said before, we are fucked.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 07:41 AM
Response to Original message
42. K&R!
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 07:57 AM
Response to Original message
43. Conyers Loses Again
He opens up a forum for their side to accuse him of "Madness," to which he can only mumble some reply about "scrutiny and oversight."

If it's not IM-PEACH-MENT, is isn't DOING -- and consequently is simply another public display of impotence.

Sorry, but more "teaching" is not an adequate response to violence. The American People are not ignorant saps who only require the right quantity of information to suddenly burst into action (to presumably do/say what their "leaders" are clearly unwilling to). Rationalizing one's inaction on that basis just reveals a manipulative and disdainful attitude toward the public.

Impeachment is our ONLY moral, patriotic, (and legal, legislative, electoral, diplomatic...) option.

Get on with it. Or give the gavel to Wexler and let him show you how to lead.

----
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The Blue Flower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-08-08 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
45. They'll spend the rest of their lives...
...living under the shadow of Eichmann and his fate. The universe does bend toward justice, and a cowardly U.S. Congress is most definitely NOT the last hope for it.
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