Anyone here ever live in a Soviet Country back in the day?

I spent a summer abroad in Moscow back in HS (What was funny is there was no Russian lang component - and I don't think they wanted us learning the language)

Anyway - it was real eye opening, lots of propaganda, and a lot of repetition. The Muscovites I talked with (all of which were designated by the party, of course) ended up saying the same jingoistic statements over and over. I noticed the same thing when I was in Cuba.

AND...I notice the past 8 years it's been like that here. Pure jingoism. "Hate us for our freedom","let's roll","freedom isn't free"...ad nauseum. And it wasn't always like that here.


So to someone else who has seen a Controlled State - how does the last 8 years compare?

Do we get high marks in jingoism?

I spent a semester abroad at the University of Valencia in Franco's Spain. Lot's of people just seemed to mill about with their heads down and stares averted.

As well as late 70's Chile

Oh God, yeah; Pinochet and the Caribineros. Pablo Neruda and foggy, hilly beaches. Angry Spaniards and beautiful Mapuche. The road down the coast to Isla Negra.

NadinBrzezinski and Lala Rawraw (Larisa Alexandrovna).

and in the few, furtive, personal exchanges I managed to have, what struck me wasn't so much the communist jingoism I heard (worker's paradise, gonna crush the West, etc) than the assumption that *I'd* been brain-washed and/or was a mouthpiece of Western propaganda.

For example, I once showed off a picture of my home at Christmas (decorated tree, presents, dogs, carpets, siblings, bookshelves, food, windows with actual glass, etc) and was laughed at. Scoffed!

It was SO obvious that I was just showing some stock photo depicting the life of the ruling capitalist elite...

people more than possessions. I don't think they had millions sleeping on the streets.

I read that there was real disillusionment among the former East Europeans, and their politicians, former East German Communists, are set fair to form a significant bloc in the composition of the German parliament.

living and sleeping on your streets.

There are different but equal problems in all societies ... it is the default problem of being human.

find the gew-gaws of affluence just a little bit laughable, when proudly shown as things to be coveted.

I dealt with three Soviet pen pals who called the film 2001: A Space Odyssey as "obvious western propaganda". They said "we do not believe you have such things -- we are incredulous!" I replied to them that the film was science fiction and they weren't supposed to think those things existed. lol

They seemed to see everything in terms of "western propaganda" -- probably because they were surrounded by it (just as we are with the Bush regime).

as we do, them. But they seem to be more aware of their own establishment's propaganda. That's the difference.

Well, it's true, it wasn't so subtle there, but arguably for that reason, less pervasively effective and sinster than ours.

What's yours?

With my limited German, I used wallet photos to illustrate.

You're right, though - I didn't expect to be assumed to be a proud presenter of the gew-gaws of affluence. Neither then, nor now.

Who best represents the truly indoctrinated, I wonder?

simple implications of your words.

Well, I hope against hope that I'm indoctrinated with the Gospel teachings of Christ, who, on one occasion, bitterly reproached the crowds who followed him, accusing them of following him, not for a new BMW or yacht, but for a square meal of bread and fish. I'll bet Jesus and his followers would have been knocked for six if they'd seen your photos... doubtless thinkng they were of Herod's palace, eating their hearts out.

The people were just stunned.

I'll never forget sitting at a very long table in what I thought was a restaurant. (never was sure just what it was or whether I was really supposed to be there. We asked for directions to a restaurant and were taken there. Could have been a lunchroom for workers or something.) Everyone was served the same dish. We had no idea what we were eating, so since we spoke German and the man next to us also spoke German, we asked the man next to us what kind of meat it was. He answered very softly and discretely: "Best not to ask."

Nobody asked much of anything about anything that mattered -- not even the meat they were eating. This was back in the 1960s.

from what I gather there's definitely similarities in the propaganda factor and controlling the message...

but maybe they're more relaxed with fellow Caribbean peeps. We drank beer and chat lots of stuff on the Malecon.

If you talked politics, they gave you propaganda. I spoke Spanish and watched the news, and it was pure propaganda.

Ask them about sex, however, and they'll talk for hours. And without propaganda!

Keep in mind Advertising has all of its roots in Propaganda.

Grew up in Soviet Poland. They left Poland when he was 7 and lived in Germany until 1989 when they came to the US. I don't think he remembers much of what it was like back in the bad old days, except that he didn't have a banana until he was 7 years old, and the only cheese he had for the first 10 years of his life was gouda. I've never asked his mom what it was like back then, but she loves Poland and probably wouldn't say anything bad about it.

Because he's integrated so well, I sometimes forget that he lived the first third of his life behind the Wall, then I remember and feel more cultured by proxy. Heh.

But that was in the UK, where our right-wing, monied leaders had led us into WWII, in every sense of the word. Food rationing continued on some goods for a long time, as well.

and one of them spontaneously, and several years ago, pointed out some parallels between Maoist and Bush propaganda: both had the art of gaining support by rallying their people against foreigners, and using real or more likely assumed ideology (Communism in one case; Christianity in the other) to instil devotion to themselves and their governments.