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dtotire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 08:05 AM
Original message
Does Anyone See A Threat From Iran?
This is an item from Reuters:

( I don't see where the threat is. Does anyone here see a threat?)



JERUSALEM (Reuters) - The United States and Israel agree on the need for "tangible action" to prevent Iran from developing nuclear weapons, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert's spokesman said after a visit by U.S. President George W. Bush.

"We are on the same page. We both see the threat ... And we both understand that tangible action is required to prevent the Iranians from moving forward on a nuclear weapon," Olmert spokesman Mark Regev said on Friday.





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MissHoneychurch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 08:07 AM
Response to Original message
1. Starting the war drum
that is pretty much all there is to it.
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 08:10 AM
Response to Original message
2. Well...they are killing our soldiers in Iraq according to sources.
I am not sure what to do about that. We should not be there in the first place, but we are there. And Iran is helping to kill our soldiers. Do we let them get away with it? How do we stop them? What is the recourse?
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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 08:12 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. The way to stop them is to leave.
They have a right and a duty to protect themselves from a clear threat. The US government has repeatedly threatened Iran. The US is the bad guy in this.
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Certainly the US should not be in Iraq. We both agree.
And Iran has the right to protect themselves, I will give you that.

But, Iran is sending troops to Iraq to kill our soldiers. That is not acceptable to me. And IF we have our troops there--we have to protect them. Why wouldn't we protect them?
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Truth2Tell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #4
43. The US Govt. has done more than just threaten Iran
We are actively funding terrorist groups inside of Iran:

Democrats Okay Funds for Covert Ops
Secret Bush "Finding" Widens War on Iran

By ANDREW COCKBURN - CounterPunch

Six weeks ago, President Bush signed a secret finding authorizing a covert offensive against the Iranian regime that, according to those familiar with its contents, "unprecedented in its scope."

Bush’s secret directive covers actions across a huge geographic area – from Lebanon to Afghanistan – but is also far more sweeping in the type of actions permitted under its guidelines – up to and including the assassination of targeted officials. This widened scope clears the way, for example, for full support for the military arm of Mujahedin-e Khalq, the cultish Iranian opposition group, despite its enduring position on the State Department's list of terrorist groups.

Similarly, covert funds can now flow without restriction to Jundullah, or "army of god," the militant Sunni group in Iranian Baluchistan – just across the Afghan border -- whose leader was featured not long ago on Dan Rather Reports cutting his brother in law's throat.

-snip

All this costs money, which in turn must be authorized by Congress, or at least a by few witting members of the intelligence committees. That has not proved a problem. An initial outlay of $300 million to finance implementation of the finding has been swiftly approved with bipartisan support, apparently regardless of the unpopularity of the current war and the perilous condition of the U.S. economy.

Read more: http://www.counterpunch.org/andrew05022008.html


And who are these groups we are funding?

Mujahedin-e Khalq

...
Mujahedeen-e-Khalq (MEK) is the largest and most militant group opposed to the Islamic Republic of Iran. Also known as the People’s Mujahedeen Organization of Iran, MEK is led by husband and wife Massoud and Maryam Rajavi. MEK was added to the U.S. State Department’s list of foreign terrorist groups in 1997.

-snip

Incidents linked to the group include:

The series of mortar attacks and hit-and-run raids during 2000 and 2001 against Iranian government buildings; one of these killed Iran’s chief of staff
The 2000 mortar attack on President Mohammad Khatami’s palace in Tehran
The February 2000 "Operation Great Bahman," during which MEK launched 12 attacks against Iran
The 1999 assassination of the deputy chief of Iran’s armed forces general staff, Ali Sayyad Shirazi
The 1998 assassination of the director of Iran’s prison system, Asadollah Lajevardi
The 1992 near-simultaneous attacks on Iranian embassies and institutions in 13 countries Assistance to Saddam Hussein’s suppression of the 1991 Iraqi Shiite and Kurdish uprisings
The 1981 bombing of the offices of the Islamic Republic Party and of Premier Mohammad-Javad Bahonar, which killed some 70 high-ranking Iranian officials, including President Mohammad-Ali Rajaei and Bahonar Support for the 1979 takeover of the U.S. Embassy in Tehran by Iranian revolutionaries
The 1970s killings of U.S. military personnel and civilians working on defense projects in Tehran


In the early 1970s, angered by U.S. support for the pro-Western shah, MEK members killed several U.S. soldiers and civilians working on defense projects in Iran... MEK members also supported the 1979 takeover of the U.S. Embassy in Tehran, in which 52 Americans were held hostage for 444 days.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/para/mek.htm


Or Jundullah

Jundullah — also known as "Army of God", "Allah's Soldiers", and "God's Brigade", as well as the Popular Iranian Resistance Movement — is a Sunni "Pakistani tribal miltant group responsible for a series of deadly guerrilla raids inside Iran." It is "made up of members of the Baluchi tribe and operates out of the Baluchistan province in Pakistan, just across the border from Iran,"...

...ABC News was told by tribal sources "that money for Jundullah is funneled to its youthful leader, Abd el Malik Regi... Regi "used to fight with the Taliban" and is "part drug smuggler, part Taliban, part Sunni activist"...

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Jundullah


And Wikipedia gives us this nugget on Rigi:


In an interview with Dan Rather, Rigi describes the Iranian military as "cowardly" and in that video, he cuts off a person's head in front of the camera , in Al-Qaeda style.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jundallah


So let's be clear - we have already declared war on Iran and we are already using terrorist tactics to wage that war.

As for the "sources" of evidence that Iran is helping kill Americans in Iraq - would that be Michael Gordon and The New York Times to which the poster refers? That's wonderful, cuz his track record is so strong on these issues. :crazy:
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VWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. According to which sources?
Lots of conflicting information out there. I'm not so sure Iran has been meddling in Iraq as much as you might think.

A couple days ago there was a report that some of the weapons confiscated by the US were not Iranian after all.
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. I just heard this morning on the "news" so take it with a grain of salt
that the generals on the ground are saying Iranian special forces are in Iraq killing our soldiers.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #7
26. Right. And they said IRaq had WMD too.
Jeebus.
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ProgressiveFool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #7
34. why, though, why on earth would they want to?
Edited on Fri May-16-08 11:17 AM by ProgressiveFool
Our forces are bogged down in a quagmire well enough already without Iran needing to do anything so drastic as fighting our forces with theirs.

I can understand them providing aid and comfort to the Shiite militias, in their own self-interests, in the form of arms, munitions and perhaps even training, but to send their own forces in? It would turn out to be suicide for them if we ever got any sort of solid evidence that it was taking place. And the fact that we have not yet had any such solid evidence, merely dog-and-pony shows that get exposed as being trumped up (recent example was where a pile of weapons supposedly from Iran were proven not to be at all) argues against it being the case, in my opinion.

Ultimately, after we pull out, Iran will have to deal with the mess we leave on their doorstep. I honestly can't really blame them for backing their side to ensure an outcome favorable to Iran. Wouldn't we do the same if Canada or Mexico were in political turmoil? Is the US the only country allowed to meddle in another country's business?
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #2
12. According to very biased sources.
There have been repeated investigations that showed NO Iranian involvement in attacks on American - or anyone else.

Just last week a HUGE weapons cache was found - tons of arms and munitions. None of it from Iran.

Haven't you learned yet? If the WH says something, believe the opposite.
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. actually, I remembered that it was Biden on Morning Joe this morning
who said it. He said he was asking the generals on the ground and that is the information he has.

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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #15
21. Which, of course, makes the source the generals, not Biden. nt
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #21
42. No. Biden agreed with them, and did not mince words.
He could have said he did not agree with them.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. so he was on the ground, looking at the weapons?
The primary source is the generals, and when you get to be a general you become less the military man and more the politician. Particularly under this administration.

If there was tangible proof there would be half-page photos above the fold on every newspaper in the country. Instead, we have vague allegations.

I can't believe that people are buying into this AGAIN.
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. No. And we have no tangible proof that we were on the moon.
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doc03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #2
17. We were arming Bin Laden and helping
him kill the Soviets in Afghanistan, so the USSR would have been justified in nuking us. The Chinese and USSR we helping the North Vietnamese kill Americans so we should have nuked them I guess. There are dozens of examples where we were the third party in wars in the last century.
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frickaline Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #17
27. another good point (nt)
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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #2
30. Oh, the infamous "some sources"
Edited on Fri May-16-08 10:28 AM by alarimer
We need to get the hell out of Iraq. All the occupation does is inflame tensions that would otherwise not be there.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #2
39. there has been ZERO proof of that
the pentagon canceled their dog and pony show last week to showcase the supposed weapons because they don't have any. They need to look at our Saudi pals who have been helping the Sunnis until the US decided to arm the "former insurgents". This whole thing is FUBAR and we need to get our troops home now. They should never be miss used as an occupying force.
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Winterblues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #2
40. How do you know that to be true?
Just because the Admionistration says so?
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cayuga Donating Member (405 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
47. The recourse is...
For the love of God! Stop believing what the government says. Where the hell have you been for the last 8 years?

p.s. For starters, research whether or not there were WMDs in Iraq.
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 08:10 AM
Response to Original message
3. They're threatening to turn W into the undisputed worst mass murderer in decades
Right now he's just the front-runner, but after Iran he'd have the lock.
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Jim__ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 08:32 AM
Response to Original message
8. Iran poses no threat to the US.
We should certainly not choose to get involved in any kind of shooting war with a country that poses no threat.
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riverdale Donating Member (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 08:38 AM
Response to Original message
9. Heck, I never saw a threat from Iraq
We invaded them in two separate wars; they never did shit to us.
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michreject Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
10. What about our pledge of support to Israel?
Iran hasn't been blowing smoke with their threats to eliminate Israels existence. They mean it.
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frickaline Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. valid point. (nt)
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. Yeah, just like China was threatening to eliminate the U.S. all through
the Vietnam War.

Israel is widely rumored to already possess nukes. They can take care of themselves, as they have proved time and again.
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michreject Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #14
19. When did Israel use nukes?
I musta missed that.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Reading comprehension is a good thing
I said they were rumored to have them. Show me where I said that Israel used nukes. I didn't say that, because I know it's not true.
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michreject Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. Writing composition is a good thing
Same paragraph, same subject. Simple rules to follow. Topic of your paragraph is nukes.Israel is widely rumored to already possess nukes Ending with They can take care of themselves, as they have proved time and again.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #23
31. Still a reading comprehension problem
I did not say that they had taken care of themselves with nukes. I was referring to the 1967 War, the Yom Kippur War (on both occasions, they fended off attacks from all their Arab neighbors at once), and the Entebbe rescue.
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frickaline Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. whether or not they can defend themselves has no bearing on this
If that were the case, we should expect no allies ever.
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sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #10
36. How do you know that, "They mean it"? How many times has Iran attacked Israel? In fact,
when was the last time Iran started any war?
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michreject Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #36
37. Not worthy of any reply
No merit in question.
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KG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
11. no threat to the US. rhetorical threat to isreal.
but then isreal, despite have by far the biggest and most advanced military in the ME and the only nukes, love to play the victim card. gotta keep those american tax dollars flowing to prop up their economy!
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frickaline Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #11
24. In Israel's defense, I think they do have some reasons for being a little defensive
The notion that this issue is either simplistic or one-sided doesn't sit well with me.
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KG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #24
28. it's not simplistic. but Isreal is a contrived country, built on stolen land and genocide
they've been the protagonists since its creation.
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frickaline Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. I think that is extremely debatable and one-sided once again
Tell me, which year is the proper year we should all look at to determine "ownership"?
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Wiley50 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
16. Pistachio Nuts
They have enough shells to choke the whole world
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 08:53 AM
Response to Original message
18. NO to answer your question
Edited on Fri May-16-08 08:55 AM by alyce douglas
it's all about the OIL, and killing for it.

as Joe Biden said Pakistan is more of a threat than Iran, but that doesn't mean pre emptive start a war with them either, it is truly disgusting and shameful what this country has become.
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sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
22. Iran is no threat to the US (militarily). Influence within the ME, yes. But, we have zero
proof that Iran is pursuing nuclear weapons. They have said they are working on nuclear energy, just like Saudi Arabia, to whom Bush is offering all kinds of assistance. What would happen if the USA would talk to Iran?
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
25. Nope. Except for the threat of standing in the way of a US military dictatorship
--in the Middle East. It's like that with some of those countries over their who have too many people living in them.
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Fireweed247 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
35. people see what they want to see
and don't let the facts get in their way. Silly me, I thought this nonsense was over when all the evidence pointed to the fact that Iran is not a threat, and even the US intelligence agencies wouldn't lie for them this time.
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noonwitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
38. Yes-to our soldiers in Iraq and to Israel
That doesn't mean that I think a war is the best solution, though, unless Iran were to attack Israel.

I'm for the Israelis targeting the nuclear sites in Iran and bombing the hell out of them. It worked in 1984 against Saddam.
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High Plains Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. Now, there's a prescription for disaster.
Hmmm, Israel launches illegal attack on Iranian territory.

I wonder what Iran's buddies, Hamas, to the immediate south of Israel, and Hezbollah, to the immediate north, would have to say about that. I would wager we would see political violence that would make the last 20 years look like a picnic.
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Truth2Tell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-16-08 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
46. kick. nt
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