I am REALLY sick and tired of all the crap talk about the illegals and the children

Most of my students are illegals or children born in the US from illegals.

I live in a huge city and everyday in the newspaper there are comments about if we sent the illegals back to where they belong our society would be better.

Well let me tell you.

My students have overcome some very rough situations and are still caring and for the most part very productive students.

It is a testament to their resilience because many of these kids come from broken homes, one or more relatives in jail, very poor economic living conditions, gang problems because their parents are in them and by proxy so are they.

I had one student tell me last week that she wasn't going to high school because daddy said she had to stay home to watch the 2 year old because they couldn't afford daycare and they didn't get assistance because they have no papers...


I could go on and on, but I am SICK of adults hating these kids. They didn't choose who to be born from and they are doing the best they can to follow the rules and still be loyal to their families.


OH and NCLB...really hurts our population of students



(rant off)

these kids are the first to wish a staff member with happy birthday wishes

I had one even bring cupcakes for MY birthday

...without having the "hating the kids" narrative used against them.

There are definite repercussions if we decide to enforce immigration laws the way they should be. How to minimize the impact on children is a valid point that people of differing opinions and good will can work out.

I sense your frustration, but demonizing people who don't fully agree with your take on illegal immigration won't make the solution come any quicker, or be any less impactful.

Just sayin'

Duke

A nation needs to have laws regarding immigration. If we let everyone come here, we will be a third world nation ourselves. One billion people live south of our borders. Many of that population consider moving here but each person that arrives boosts the costs of housing and other supplies while wages drop accordingly.

The Native Americans learned that lesson well.

They were concured. Just like countries throughout history all over the world.

Conquered=Stolen.

for them. They don't want to starve. Americans do not have enough children to replace the outgoing work force. In spite of the repuke governors who complain that they are all on welfare. Now instead of blacks they can beat up on the hispanics. Same old song and dance second verse. If employers didn't hire them they would not come. American people are such suckers for the Republican mentality. Hate everyone who is different.

It is about the numbers, pure and simple. It is about safety standards.

Jobs that paid $ 13 to $ 17 an hour in California now pay (if you are lucky) nine.

Even Mother Jones, hardly a tool of the Republicans, has spoken out against unlimited immigration.

Standards in every industry go down - hospitals are simply not safe when the Hospital can employ people on the cheap who don't speak English.

We are rapidly third world-ing this country - when we start to have the same lax road standards such that GreyHound is replaced with the style of Bus Company typical of Mexico and So America, when truckers are from other lands and the trucks they drive are also, featuring no safety standards etc so that we begin to experience the same highway mortality as in these other lands, then you'll see.

I have had friends who complain to me about my "racist" views, then when their kids turn six and the family visits the local schools only to discover that one third of the faculty barely speaks English - all of a sudden a light bulb goes on. We are so extremely liberal in our appraoch to this mass migration. And the people who suffer are those who can't afford the private schools, who suffer through surgeries only to be told by the nursing assistants "No speak English" when they request water, etc.

I am a child advocate. And because of that, I base my position on immigration on what is best for the children involved. Deporting their parents is not in the children's best interests. So anyone who supports deportation is supporting harming kids.

I also value diversity and treasure knowing and being respected by these people. They are such an asset to my life and my community.

I grew up in an all white suburb. That's not the kind of community I want to live in now and it isn't the kind of community I wanted to raise my own children in.

If we were really a caring society we would welcome these people and be proud that we have the resources to do so. And yes, we CAN afford it. We are spending $720 million a day to murder people in Iraq. Just think what we could do with that money right here in the USA.

You are well acquainted with my stand re: Illegal Immigration. I'm one of the people of good will I spoke of. The OP said they were tired of people hating these kids. You agree. I don't. I don't think you understand (or particularly wish to understand) the viewpoint of those who are tired of illegal immigration and its impacts on this nation.

So we're at a stalemate. Politically, and policy-wise, one of our viewpoints will be proven right, and one of us will have them proven wrong. For the sake of future immigrants who wish to better their lives, I'm hoping it's mine.

Duke

You don't have to really hate them to make them feel unwelcome and unwanted. Anti immigration views feel like hatred to them.

A couple years ago, one of the kids asked me why do so many white people hate us. I said all of them don't hate you they are just frustrated over a complicated issue. And he said if they don't hate us then why do they want us to go away.

Out of the mouths of babes. :hi:

Have you or Greenbrier ever explained exactly why they seem not to be "wanted"?

Are you or Greenbriar also "no borders" advocates, as UndertheOcean is?

Duke

I am not going to advance your position


I do not want an arguement about immigration,

I want to convey that these kids deserve better treatment!

who see brown skin and just automatically assume illegal

Duke

Sounds to me as though it were a pretty sweeping condemnation. Much like one who says, "a pox on all speeders!"

Does one then ask, "which speeder would that be?"

Granted, while most speeders would have a knee-jerk defensive response to it, thinking it was aimed at one or two particular speeders (themselves most likely), I think we can safely assume the post was aimed at all racists...

I thought I explained it in my post. I don't think it's that hard to get, really. When I was a kid we had a neighbor who said really mean things about Catholics. So I was sure she hated Catholics. And since I was a Catholic kid, I never felt welcome in her house, even though her daughter and I were good friends.

Kids are made to feel unwelcome because of the negative rhetoric about their people. Any criticism of their people or immigration is negative to them. They are very sensitive. I can't tell you how many times, for example, that kids will tell me their mom or their teacher "yelled" at them. When I press for details, they tell me that Mom or teacher is upset with them, but never raised their voice. But in their minds, being upset or angry is the same as yelling. So they translate "immigration is wrong" into hatred of their people.

I think we need borders. And who are we to decide that Mexico or Canada don't want a border protecting their citizens from our people crossing over? But we should be more fair about who we let come in. It's not right in my mind to have quotas that keep out certain nationalities. A quota should cover ALL immigrants, not just the ones from south of the border, or from Asia, etc.

the kids don't deserve it

Without that insight, then I am now further convinced that fines and jail time for the owners of companies that encourage illegal immmigration, along with deportation for illegal immigrants is warranted. Their children can go with them, or guardians can care for them until majority. Combine with a sensical immigration policy, and we'll be good to go.

I guess I'm a child hater now. Guess I'll have to tenderize and eat mine for dinner tonight.

Duke

I received my master's through a department of education grant program providing special education services to the children of migrant workers. The program has since lost its funding.

Before I went back to school to get my master's I was a social worker at Head Start where many of the children on my case load were from families who had no documentation.

I completely understand where you are coming from.

You know where I am on this. :hug:

It's right-wing framing very deliberately designed to dehumanize and help feed the bigotry.

They are immigrants.

Illegal Immigrants, as opposed to _Legal_ Immigrants indicates status, not personhood, however.

Duke

Yet even on DU, there are many who bought into it.

If we used "illegal walker" for a jaywalker, if we used "illegal driver" for speeders I would reexamine my position, but since the word "illegal" (when describing a person who breaks one or more laws) is only used in reference to undocumented workers, I'll see it as racism each and every time...

in this OP.

I sure hope this teacher doesnt refer to the kids and their families that way at school. :(

they stood in line ? right ? and got permission from the Native American's first ? right ?

And when Asians came over the land bridge, they didn't get visas from the inhabitants of North America, either. Point?

You put out this strawman argument repeatedly, and for the life of me, I don't know what your endgame is. Enlighten me.

Duke

Humanity is one.

Imagine you live in Nevada , and you want to move to California,because of a better Job offer , but state authorities tell you "NO!" , wait in line , apply for transfer , and it is our decision to accept you , or not as a Californian.

Borders are only recent artifacts, born from increased travel range and speed , coupled with ancient tribal and ethnic territoriality within the human animal.

But , we are not just animals , we should , and we will evolve beyond those primitive tribal pathos.

We have a constitution that defines the ability for free movement WITHIN THIS NATION, so your hypothetical is invalid on it's face.

Without a belief that borders are a valid concept, I don't see any middle ground between us on this, unfortunately.

Duke

<corrected for minor spelling>

is talking about ethics, not what's currently legal. There's often a large gap between the two concepts.

I do however appreciate the humor in your argument that their hypothetical is invalid as a hypothetical because it is ... hypothetical. :D

Glad it gave you a chuckle. :)

Duke

Though frankly I can't imagine why. We'll all be long dead by the time borders are abolished.

but it would seem as though you have spent some thought on this "No Border" idea of yours. Please tell me what would be the first step to achieving a borderless world. I thought about it for about a minute, and the first step would seem to be invasion of other countries and incorporate them into some sort of collective world governing body.

But that would require going to war, and I don't think that is the road you'd want to take. So, what is the first step?

I cannot see it. You will either end up with "private fortresses" for the well-to-do or the international equivalent of "urban flight" where folks who can afford to keep one step ahead of the many and take their capital with them. Since you are an open borders advocate I assume you would also like to abolish property ownership and any form of capitalism (this is not a knock, but it sounds a lot like the platform of many Marxist or neo-Marxist international movements).

And lastly, who gets the fun job of telling wealthy homogeneous Japan that they have to open their borders?

Please, do you honestly believe that the elimination and injustice against American Indians was such ancient history, that it is no longer relevant?

(apologies to greenbriar, just can't understand the reasoning of this poster)

UndertheOcean repeatedly asks if Europeans received visas from the Native Americans before queuing up to come here. I stated that their decendents didn't do that when they came over the land bridge from Asia. I further pointed out that this type of argument is a strawman argument used to justify illegal immigration-a way of solving a problem by saying "there is no problem".

This had absolutely NOTHING to do with what you're talking about.

Please read, and re-read the post, please.

Duke

over that land bridge (ie. USA). It seems to me that you are the one that is saying "there is no problem".

I have read and re-read your statement to UndertheOcean.

...came to the North American landmass. So using that "no visa" argument is mere sophistry. So it seems you _do_ see my point.

And on the contrary...there is a _big_ problem when a nation cannot secure its borders and regulate ingress and egress, not only for citizens of that nation, but legal immigrants as well.

Duke

meant to assuage any immigrating whites who might have tended to feel that stealing land for expansion of "borders" or murdering for conquest might just be improper behavior for "civilized" folk.

There is a bigger problem for a nation which carries such a recent history of hard-core discrimination against the very natives of the land it holds power over, a policy of racist oppression, when it attempts to once again label, stigmatize, and eliminate a certain portion of the population, for whatever reason.

They had no policies in regard to the newcomers? News to me and I've been reading about the encounter of Old World and New my whole life. You must be a real expert...

I'm hoping you were not being sarcastic with the "expert" thing.

Is is your assertion that the native tribes on the North American landmass had a policy regarding the influx of the Europeans, up to and including issuing visas? Because that was what the upthread posts were about.

Duke

Get an education and come back to me. It's not my job to teach you.

...and enjoy your finite DU career.

Duke

What the hell do you mean by that, newbie?

nm

Oh, and I caught your picture as you posted your response.



Duke

nm

..... People were blaming the undocumented immigrants for just about everything that's wrong with America today, instead of placing the blame on years of insane conservative policies. Granted, the people motivated to call WJ often tend to be extreme when immigration is discussed, but it was still rather sad.

The issues and impacts with job creation, health care, and education cannot all be laid at the feet of illegal immigration.

However, even if there were no negatives to illegal immigration, bottom line, nations are entitled to control ingress and egress through their borders.

Duke

From 1972-2000 I was an emergency foster parent. I saw A LOT of kids put into awful situations because their parent chose to be on the wrong side of the law for a variety of reasons - not the least of which was generations of inadequate education and economic opportunity. Shame on America and shame on those parents for putting kids in that kind of situation. I wonder what America would be like right now if we chose to employ, with a living wage, less educated, poorer people from rural and inner city America rather than ship in cheap labor from other countries.

IMHO, the people in government choosing to punish illegal workers and their families rather than the elites who turned their backs on American workers to exploit another country's poor are themselves criminals. Rather than jailing and deporting illegals we should be drying up the jobs for them and employing our own instead. Families will self deport rather than be broken apart. There is no reason to tear apart families.

If it makes me a "bigot" or a "racist" or a "child hater" to want to reduce the labor pool enough to make wages livable for generationally poor rural and inner city Americans - to put more opportunities in the hands of American children then so be it. I hate no one. I am all for our own government getting the hell out of other countries business so they can build opportunties for their own citizens.

So yes, the kids illegals do get hurt and I hate that. I also hate what I see driving down Metropolitan Ave or Joseph Lowery Blvd or a miriad of other place right here in Metro Atlanta because the jobs and opportunities were handed off to more easily exploitable labor.

Duke

where the problem lies.
Wages in the construction and lawn care trades (and factories too) have totally stagnated in the last 30 years, thanks largely to our "our borders are like a sieve but we'll just look the other way because it helps the rich" policies.
THIRTY YEARS ago my husband made 12- 15 bucks an hour doing painting and wallpapering. This was FOUR TO FIVE TIMES the minimum wage. A couple of years before that, he did yard work, for a similar rate.
In the 60s and 70s factory workers, from meatpacking to automotive to steel mills, with high school educations, made enough to support a family and buy a house ON ONE INCOME. Three of my uncles, one with 4 kids and two with 5, did this, working for Allegheny Ludlum Steel and PPG. High school and college kids were thrilled to get factory jobs or even farm jobs in the summer, because they paid WAY more than minimum wage.

The European countries manage to maintain reasonably tight borders - you can't sneak into those countries (if you're not from the EU) and expect to find work.

US govt needs to punish the employers. And they need to quit propping up evil regimes in Mexico and elsewhere in Latin America that treat their people like shit.

And you're right, Rosemary -- blacks and other people wwho have played by the rules are utterly screwn "because the jobs and opportunities were handed off to more easily exploitable labor".

What boggles my mind is why folks who call themselves progressives (referring to no one in this present thread) wish to enable the continuation of what amounts to the maintenance and expansion of a new slave underclass--those who will "do the work that Americans won't do".

Duke

What a total crock of shit.

I'll do the work, just not for $1 an hour like they will.

If you hate business enough to suggest that they should be punished for hiring illegals... may I suggest another angle? Rather than bother to hassle the illegals... or even bother hassling the companies that hire illegals... why not raise the minimum wage to $27 per hour? I'll tell you, at $27 per hour... with overtime pay, and benefits... I think Americans would be wiling to do just about any job imaginable. I know I would. Hell... I've changed people's goldfish tank water for a mere $6.50 an hour... for $27 an hour I might consider helping your incontinent mother/grandmother change her diaper...

Of course... this is America, where we don't raise pay to try to reward workers commensurately with the cost of living in this country, but rather we threaten those who hire foreigners willing to work for less... and even more often, threaten those who come to work for cheap... somehow suggesting that they're undermining our society.
Give me a break. They're not undermining anything. They're looking for work, and we're undermining each other... in the grand American tradition.
Hell, if I could get work in Europe I'd leave the US in a second. As a matter of fact, I might do the same if I could find legal work in Mexico. My citizenship, at this point, is primarily a matter of a geographic expanse within which I'm legally able to find work.

Here's a thought for all of those who are worried about losing their jobs to illegal immigrants to the US hired by their employers to take their jobs... why not consider moving to India to chase after the jobs being exported there, for instance? After all, the cost of living there is liable to be lower by enough that the lower pay won't actually impact the standard of living of those doing the jobs? What's the matter? Don't we Americans have the courage to flee our own country in pursuit of work opportunities abroad that the Mexicans, Philippinos, Indians, Russians, Chinese, et. al. have?
That's right Americans... it might be time to begin adjusting to the idea that we're a third world economy too... unless we have the connections to get a nice corporate job...
I know I'm looking for a "Teach Yourself Punjabi" book... personally.

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Hate Crimes Linked to Immigration Debate
NEW YORK (AP) -- Anti-immigrant sentiment is fueling nationwide increases in the number of hate groups and the number of hate crimes targeting Latinos, a watchdog group said Monday.

The Southern Poverty Law Center, in a report titled ''The Year in Hate,'' said it counted 888 hate groups in its latest tally, up from 844 in 2006 and 602 in 2000.

---

Feds admit mistakenly jailing citizens as illegal immigrants
WASHINGTON — A top Immigration and Customs Enforcement official acknowledged Wednesday that his agency has mistakenly detained U.S. citizens as illegal immigrants, but he denied that his agency has widespread problems with deporting the wrong people.

---

Patrick wants detainees from immigration raid kept in Mass.
BOSTON --Gov. Deval Patrick urged federal authorities to not move any more factory workers detained in an immigration raid out of state until their children are located and arrangements are made for their care ... "What we have never understood about this process is why it turned into a race to the airport," Patrick said. "There are families affected, there are children affected."

---

Feds' immigration database wrongly flags 18M workers
A government program that is stymied by data errors and isn't designed to stop fraud is the keystone of enforcing the nation's laws against employing undocumented workers.

The online system, called the Basic Pilot Program, automatically matches names and Social Security numbers when people apply for jobs. But the 11-year-old system is hardly foolproof.

---

Poll: Hispanics Shift Toward Democrats
"Hispanics are returning to the Democratic Party after several years of drifting toward the Republicans, with many saying Bush administration policies have been harmful to their community, a poll showed Thursday.

By 57 percent to 23 percent, more Hispanic registered voters say they favor Democrats than Republicans, according to a survey by the nonpartisan Pew Hispanic Center.

---

Racist, Distorted and Effective
A contemporary Willie Horton has turned up in the Democratic presidential campaign ... The current Republican war on illegal immigrants could be as potent a wedge issue as race and crime were in the 1980s. It exploits peoples’ fear that invading waves of Hispanics—you never hear anyone talk about building a fence along the Canadian border, or rounding up Eastern Europeans who’ve slipped in—are overrunning neighborhoods and schools, robbing legitimate workers of jobs and somehow diminishing the American dream.

---

In case, someone didn't get the memo the flow from south of the border DECREASED MONTHS AGO.

"Boo Hoo, they don't like me." Well let's see, your family pays zero taxes and does that stop you from using every service available that those taxes pay for? I mean, since you didn't contribute your fair share, you shouldn't use them, right? But you do. Think about that for a moment and I'm sure you can understand why Americans are fed up with illegals.

Frustrated? Yes, I am. They should not be allowed the same privileges and rights as the rest of America have. Until they do become American Citizens they can keep on crying for all I care.

Stand in line, pay your dues, and enjoy being a Citizen of the greatest nation on earth. However if you cut in line and try and take things without paying, don't you dare pretend that you don't understand why Citizens are pissed at you.

If they ever get tired of being called "illegals", then come over here the right way and I'll call them brother instead.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

THEY CAN'T.....GET IT

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

They are human beings asshole! They are in many cases starving. What if the roles were reversed? What would you do? Or as they say on your home message board...WWJD?

I love it when you blow a freepers argument they reveal their true colors...enjoy your stay...

alerted

I am a human being, asshole! What's more, I'm a law abiding human being whereas they are not. Starving? I see alot of illegals on the street, never saw two that looked like they were "starving" so don't expect me to believe that.

My home board? I don't understand that.

WWJD? Probably just hang around on a cross until he died.

Freeper? I'm not familiar with that term.

I showed my true colors from the get-go. I don't like illegals/criminals and feel that I should not have to pay for their offspring either. Pay taxes or go home.

Yeah, but you're a pretty shitty excuse for one.

"I'm a law abiding human being whereas they are not."

Frankly, I'd rather take any random illegal immigrant over you as for as ethics or morality is concerned. They haven't got all the right paperwork. You haven't got any excuse.

"Pay taxes or go home."

This is America. Land of immigrants or opportunity. You don't like it? You can get the hell out.

Yes they pay taxes and no they don't use every service available.

Oh and Obama isn't a Muslim either. Figure that will be the next lie you will be spamming DU with.

:hi:

then get out of the States. When your forefathers arrived in the States, did they have all the proper documentation? Odds are likely that they didn't...so off you go...to wherever your forefathers came from.

:grr:

Where's the compassion for children growing up in these places? I know, I know. You care about your neighbors and your community, not mine. Why are you surprised when the people in my community feel the same way? :hi:

Feeling compassion for children of the undocumented means we aren't compassionate for poor children who live in urban areas?

Since Detroit and Cleveland are the poorest cities in the country, you'd expect the OP to have a great deal of compassion for their poor children.

But...nope. :shrug: Seems like the OP's "compassion" is limited to people in her own community. Hmmmm.... :think:

The way it's said (not you, but generally speaking) is usually with same scorn as the N-word.

Especially when used 4 times in the same breath asking for tolerance, compassion and understanding. It smacks of insincerity.

is now enrolled at a learning center.


I and another teacher who is very fluent in Spanish went to the home and convinced the father that said student could attend a learning center one day a week and continue her education in a non=traditional way.

She can help her family and still continue school.

She came to me today and hugged me tightly and said thank you!!!


Maybe she will continue, maybe not, but I have hope at this point