To those who are tempted to compare Scott McClellan to John Dean: Knock it off.

There IS no comparison. None. Zip. It's like comparing apples to shoehorns.

Just off the top of my head:

- John Dean revealed the Nixon/Watergate cancer WHILE HE WAS STILL IN THE WHITE HOUSE.
- Scott McClellan is relating one-sided anecdotes, which by now are practically common knowledge, two years after resigning his position.

- John Dean testified UNDER OATH against some of the most powerful, ruthless people in the free world (with whom he was still working, by the way).
- Scott McClellan is telling tales out of school, at a time, place and manner of his own choosing.

- John Dean ACKNOWLEDGED HIS OWN CULPABILITY in Watergate. Again, under oath.
- Scott McClellan reportedly blames Rove, Libby and Cheney for 'misleading' him, when it was plain to every critical thinker in the country that they were lying to him, and he in turn was lying to us. Then, after years of non-stop stonewalling for these puppeteers, he blames the media for not being aggressive enough. In short, Scott McClellan blames everyone but himself.

- John Dean followed his conscience WHEN IT MADE A DIFFERENCE and AT GREAT PERSONAL SACRIFICE.
- Scott McClellan tells his sordid tales from the comfort of his living room, at a time of his own choosing, and for substantial monetary gain.



In sum, John Dean is a courageous, principled human being who saw corruption at the highest levels and did his best to stop it.
...and Scott McClellan is a sniveling, political hack weasel who saw corruption at the highest levels, defended it, and then, much later, tattled like a schoolboy from the safety of the principal's office, long after the vandals got away.

Scott McClellan is not fit to lick the bottom of John Dean's shoes.






If you really want to draw a Nixon-era parallel for Scott McClellan, look up the name Ron Ziegler.

That's why I can't call him a hero. Now, if he testifies and helps tighten the noose, so to speak, then perhaps it would be applicable.

Anyone can see which way the wind blows now. They're almost gone. And he has a book to sell - won't be as interesting after the election.

I think it's an expedient move, not a brave thing. And I don't think he's brave in the least to have hidden behind "nobody told me anything!" while keeping the job. Either you're not in the loop, and therefore cannot do the job properly, and therefore do the correct thing which is resign. Or you're IN the loop, know it all, and resign because you do.

He waited until it affected *him* personally. When it was only the entirely country and even the world? No problem.

The BFEE doesn't draw it's power from the Presidency... they controlled (stole) the Presidency *because* of their power...

enough said

the relationship between the men and the president.

McClellan was a loyalist from back when Dumbya was governor; Dean was White House counsel.

He had a looonng history with Bushco. He knows them as well as most in the inner circle. He knows how they deal with 'traitors' to the Family. Yet he goes up against them anyway.

Dean was doing the right thing, but he didn't have the personal investment in the Nixon WH, nor they in him, that colors the relationship between McClellan and Bushco.

John Dean has my utmost respect.

Thank you for your post -- recommended!

NOT.

The Scotty worship here is really disgusting. For those who think he's done the Dems some good, ask yourself WHY the Dems need this kind of help. They were just as capable of raising the roof on these matters years ago as McClellan. He didn't and neither did they. What's to admire in that?

I'd rather admire the Dems in their own right, not relative to the hideousness -- exposed or not -- of the GOP.

But the Dems own a lot too. They don't speak out nearly often enough about things BushCo have done, and they refuse to impeach.

I think that's a more valid comparison. That said, however, I still give McClellan a lot of credit for speaking out against this group of thugs and their unprecedented vindictiveness and viciousness. Dean (tonight on Olbermann) was quite impressed with him in that regard.

I got the impression he (Dean) was a little underwhelmed by it all.

I couldn't help notice that when K.O. asked McClellan the ultimate question-- why did you wait until now--- that McClellan totally bs'd and dodged the question. He didn't answer it.

He's the opposite of Dean.

I truly believe he wants to stop McCain getting us deeper into war based on what I saw last night. He's just not going to come out and say that .

Trials are on the horizon. Never forget.

John Dean was no hero at the time of Watergate, really.

It was only later that he became so.

I'm not saying that Scotty will end up being a true hero, but again, it's too early to tell.

and shocked at his testimony. I remember how the right wing kept saying it was all BS, no one could remember dates and conversations like that. He was a pariah for years, and a target. And this was when the GOP still had moderates and was less vicious than now.

He and Martha Mitchell were on the same level as far as the Nixonites were concerned.

Hi, SeattleGirl! :hi:

He told the Truth in a time when we thought the truth had vanished from the earth.
He sat in the glare of those lights, in the glare of Sam Ervin, in the glare of several million Americans, and in the glare of the World.

I can remember his testimony, his stature, and his wife -- as clear as if it was yesterday.
I had been telling everyone about Watergate and the implications of the whole event from the moment it was reported and then swept under the rug by Nixon and his cronies. I felt soooo vindicated by John Dean.

I really should have thanked him. He did a great service for this nation.
He risked everything most people hold dear -- life, liberty and happiness.
And redeemed his soul. Not kidding on that one -- he must have been deeply lost to find the strength to stand up for Honor in a time of sheer madness.

Not only was Watergate the end of Nixon, but it signaled the end of the war. Thank goodness for John Dean.

:shrug: :hi:

A legendary buffoon. Scott McClellen isn't fit to lick his big floppy clown shoes, either.

I didn't think of that, but you're right. Remember when Nixon shoved Ziegler out on stage to answer questions? :rofl:

The tendacy for people here to fall madly over someone who says what they want to hear is overwhelming...and I'm sure McClellan's publisher is hoping for that (ca-ching)

BTW...Dean wasn't in the White House when he testified...he had been fired (along with Haldermann) and then went to Sam Ervin and the hearings followed thereafter. But the rest of your comparisons are spot on.

Also, one last point it that McClellan was a soldier ant, not a big fish. Dean was the equivelent of a Andy Card, Josh Bolton...he also opened the doors to what was going on inside...it wasn't his testimony alone that sunk Nixon. I consider Alexander Butterfield's revelation about the White House taping system to have been the real nail in Nixon's coffin...and it coroborated in hard evidence what Dean said.

Now if McClellan can help get a smoking gun, then he's a John Dean. The Ziegler comparison is very good, but I think more of him as a Plumber.

:pals:


A little chagrined that my time-sense failed there. :blush:

"The tendency for people here to fall madly over someone who says what they want to hear is overwhelming...and I'm sure McClellan's publisher is hoping for that (ca-ching)."

McClellan wasn't even subtle about his effort to sell books. Yesterday each time he was interviewed he kept flogging his book. Instead of responding to questions, he kept answering "Read my book."

Richard Clarke (of all people) put Scotty's "revelations" in perspective:

:hi:

:thumbsup:

Granted, what he has done so far is cowardly and convienient but it's possible that it may be the first step in a process of his re-examining and coming around. Ariana Huffington did it, so did David Brock. Given time, so may Scott McClellen.

...and if he testifies before Conyers he'll be taking a giant step toward public redemption. :patriot:

I agree!

K&R

:)

:hi:

he is no John Dean...

BUT

You knew that was coming

He MIGHT be the chink in the armor we need to finally get some folks to grow a spine

Of course, I am far more cynical to think our people, supposedly our reps, will actually hold hearings and all that.

Of course there is that other truism that historians know so well... no event ever repeats itself 100%, EVAH.

like/liked McClellan don't claim he was ever too gifted in that department.

And John Dean's memory was impeccable, which he proved time after time.

I'll never forget how he was describing, under oath, a meeting he had with some important administration official in a coffee shop inside a hotel.
I believe he referred to it as the "Pilgrim" coffee shop.

The next day, the press went wild, claiming that he lied because there was no such place in Washington and, therefore, everything he said
was probably false.

Turns out he described exactly how to get there, and when they went to check they found out the name of the place was "The Mayflower."

:patriot:

Did you do the same? It was a real "gotcha" moment.

in this Limited Hangout as well.

But all I am saying is... I hope this is the chink we need for some people to FINALLY do their jobs

and unless you have an advanced copy, how do you know what is in the book besides what the MSM is telling us?

I don't see how that invalidates my thesis: the two men had completely different motivations and levels of courage and integrity.

He may[/b just be someone who is/has been changing - why can't anyone in political life change or grow without everyone freaking out?

I hope he is changing.


That doesn't mean he's another John Dean, though.

John Dean spoke truth to power and took the consequences.

I didn't see Puffy McMoonface marching up to Capitol Hill while he was press sec to tell anyone who would listen to him on the Senate Judiciary Committe was was going on in the chimp's White House.

There is no comparison here.

Actually Dean was right on the money....McClellan better of watched after he left before Keith Olbermann's final segment....Dean was excellent!

I wouldn't compare McClellan to Dean, but I wouldn't compare him to Ziegler, either. To my knowledge, Ziegler never repented. Regardless of his motives, McClellan's revelations now are important. Even though he is telling us nothing we on the left didn't already know, the fact that a Bush insider is saying these things is important. This story has legs.

So that's a point for McClellan :thumbsup:

than I do today. He redeemed himself over time. I would not write off Scotty just yet.

Or even Jimmy Dean.

I have no effing clue what I am getting at.

Vote Wetzelbill/Kurovski '08
Still Less Senile Than McCain

McClellan deserves absolutely no commendation or acclaim for his participatory role in the most criminal Presidency in our nation's history. That he's talking about it now only surprises the people he betrayed... this time. Those of us who were paying attention know he betrayed the rest of us a long time ago.

Oh, and he's still bullshitting, too. Never forget that this is only his version of the lies, not his version of the truth.

Might be worth looking up Albert Speer, too.

Seeing both John Dean and Snotty Scotty on KO's show last night, I was struck by Dean's courage and dignity.

that word is going to lose whatever meaing it has left.

he is NOT the classical hero.. and not really an anit-hero either

But if I had to write a character based on him, reluctant hero might fit

And we don't know where exactly this will go, or how far, given the DNC is now using the sound... trust me he will be everywhere but in a christmas list

Now if he turns STATE evidence, assuming he has any...

I asked a friend why would McClellan stayed if he was unhappy with what was happening.

My friend's reply: "Blind Ambition" (Dean's book).

but that doesn't mean we shouldn't take what we can get. Dean was exceptional in many ways, but we don't get many of them (see stanley milgram).

The other guys at the WH had designated him as the "fall guy" and he decided to roll over instead. It was a good thing that he did, but he was still up to his neck in dirty tricks.


McClellan did not have to talk. The main difference between the two of them at this point is time. If McClellan keeps it up for five or ten years, then he will have earned the same credentials that Dean has earned.

McClellan will probably stick to his guns, because the Bush-Perry machine did his momma wrong back in Texas, and that is something you shouldn't do.

He's certainly likeable ---

Does anyone remember that he was picked up by the White House because of some shady dealings
in his past?

And that Dean was quite an active supporter of Nixon criminal activity like using IRS to get
their "enemies" --??

Also, I think Dean knows a lot more about what was really going on with Watergate ---
rumors are that it had to do with JFK assassination.

Watergate also seems to have some connections to Chappaquiddick -- perhaps a framing of
Ted Kennedy?

and he and John Dean certainly are both "whistleblowers" ---

just as Clarke was --- even if rather late!!!