You think any of the people tortured into admitting they were witches in Salem really were witches?

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/06/26/9917

Published on Thursday, June 26, 2008 by the Idaho Statesman

Salem Witch Trials, Guantanamo Have a Lot in Common

by Greg Hampikian

The Idaho Shakespeare Festival should be congratulated on a timely and entertaining reminder of what justice is not. Sitting in the audience recently, seeing "The Crucible" for the first time, I was heartstruck by both its historical accuracy and its immediate relevance.

The Salem witch trials are perhaps the best example of what happens when special courts are convened in times of panic. Imagine being charged by anonymous rumors from witnesses you can not confront. Consider what it was like trying to explain a false "confession" obtained by your own repeated dunking, or pressing (having stones placed on your chest until you confess or die). snip

Most professional interrogators are against torture for both humanitarian and practical reasons. Torture does not get you the truth; victims of assault will say whatever is needed to stop their tormentors.

This side effect of "aggressive interrogation" is the reason the Swiss government proposed a long-delayed exoneration last week. The case involved a confession obtained by a non-lethal means: hanging by the thumbs with stones tied to the feet. During such an interrogation, Anna Goeldi admitted that she was a witch who had caused a young woman to spit out needles and go into convulsions. Miss Goeldi was beheaded in 1782.

like causing cows to stop giving milk, flying to the moon and back, having sex with the devil. There is modern resarch that suggests that many of the women accused of being witches were single older women (widows or spinsters) who also coincidentally owned valuable properties which were dispersed to others after their untimely deaths.

Torture (some say just the threat of torture) got Galileo to recant his theory of heliocentrism which the church disapproved of.

So, torture can be a useful tool, but revealing "truths" is practically never a part of the picture.

and there are no more witches in Salem.

:eyes:



:cry:

:silly:

And the ones that didn't admit it were just disciplined witches. We'd have gotten the truth out of them if they hadn't engaged in asymmetrical warfare by dying from the torture.

Witches burned, lessons learned.

then obviously any torture or punishment was justified.

:rofl:

It hadn't occurred to me before, but damn, it's spot on.

The water boarding is just like the dunk chairs. The fear of the evils of the witches is just like the fear of the terrorist. And listening to Graham during the torture hearings today, they did justify and continue to justify the use of torture because they were scared.

If the so-called "witches" had all that power, from Satan himself If I recall, you'd think they would have allowed themselves to be tortured that way? I know that's a little silly, but the gaps in logical thought and convoluted justification of is torture similar, whether it's Salem or Guantanamo

But that's really not the point.

it simply causes a person to say whatever will stop the pain. From the inquisition to the witch trials to Gitmo, we are observing exactly the same process. Something I have wondered, is wether cheney believs that there were witches in salem. He may have learned a different lesson: the salem trials saved salem from further witch attack. When the trials ended,salem was less safe.

basically genocide against women, have killed millions...
no one knows for certain how many...
torture, in their cases, did not prevent execution.
http://www.holocaust-history.org/~rjg/witches.shtml

Why would a person admit to something which they knew was going to earn them a fast track visit to a burning stake if it weren't true? I've always suspected some of the ones who sank (the drowning test) were witches as well. Witches are just wily that way.

On a more serious note; the article makes great point and I'll use the argument in the future.