Myths That Must Die™ Reagan Edition: Reagan was a "great" communicator.

I cannot remember any speech by him that was good, much less great.

How and when did this myth begin and can we kill it already?

No offense to our Hollywood friends but Reagan was a bit part actor who was thrown into politics with a script in hand. The criminals behind the scenes told him what to do and say while they enacted what we know and suffer from today as reaganomics.

:spray:

He was simply reading scripts.

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He was very gifted on camera at connecting with a majority of the american public. You only need look at the adoring crowds at his funeral to see how popular he was with them. Now you woul never know that here as DU is overwhelmingly composed of people who rejected his message and positions. Alot like what the freeps have to say about Clinton.

They arrived at Andrews and went to the capitol at the same time the government offices around the mall were leaving for the day, and had the streets blocked off so the crowd along the street could not get to their cars. We need a comparative photo of that lineup vx the crowd waiting to see President Kennedy. As my memory works, it is a stark comparison.

... the Moonies, the $cientologists, etc.

And, I wouldn't say he was "very" gifted.

Al Roker has huge crowds that adore him too.

I would have to call him a gifted orater. Arguably he came across as the most charismatic since Kennedy. Not to say that there weren't alot of things to complain about nor to say that the right isn't trying to deify him. Just that for all of the rose colored glasses used by the right to view him. Ours are arguably differeing only in hue.

The GOP are dependent on a "leader," liberals have been more about ideals.

Sure, we had Bobby, but I think he is the exception that proves the rule.

I had alot of friends at the time who were thrilled to be rid of Carter. The saying "Whats Flat and Glows... Iran 30 minutes after Regan takes Office" was very popular.

In hindsight it was like a carefully crafted play. But to have lived it at the time was an experience.

And don't forget his "legacy" is just another act in the play and just as fake.

... like 90 percent of politicians of the last hundred years.

and clearly he communicated well to millions and millions of Americans. Denying this is as silly and pointless as the the pukes who deny that Obama is a great communicator.

to deny that he connected with lots of people would be foolish. He did. Even if it was all smoke and mirrors...he did.

... that there was no genuine connection?

Or, at the very least, doesn't that put any doubt in the validity of his "greatness?"

Just because the guy was old, and just because he's now dead doesn't mean he has suddenly become something he never was.

Peggy Noonan gave him words, Old Hollywood trained him and Lee Atwater kept the rabble in check.

He wasn't a great communicator; not then, not now.

Enough time has passed that we can all accept that and say it without being accused of vindictiveness or some other nefarious motive.

yes, I think it was smoke and mirrors, but so what? It's how he was perceived that's most germane, not that he was as phony as you can get. And Americans, by and large, connected with who they thought St. Ronnie was.

... his ability to communicate and more to do with his handler's ability to sell him.

He only began saying the word AIDS late in his last term. In other words, he only communicated to the American public about a terrible plague right before he left office.

You know the GOP are calculating when it comes to legacy-building. To fall for their framing is to ignore what he did.

Calling Reagan a "great communicator" is the linguistic equivalent of naming National Airport for him despite what he did to the air traffic controllers' union.

It's nothing short of Orwellian.

mimic those qualities that resonated with a majority of voters. What's real or not real, in that context, is pretty immaterial. He may have been nothing but an empty vessel but that isn't the way voters reacted to him. I agree that calling him the "Great Communicator" is bullshit, but denying that he did communicate well with most of the electorate, is just silly.

I can't find it right now, but he lied alot.

Someone showed how every time he made some claim about his policy, within a week some action was taken that contradicted it. So, if by "communicate" you mean lie aided by cover of the media, then yeah, I'll agree that Reagan was a "great communicator."

De gustibus non est disputandum

Having a large and passive audience doesn't make one a "great" anything.

And "denying" Reagan's "greatness" as being equivalent to the GOPer's retaliatory denial about Obama is a false one.

Poppy was his "Dick" and ran the show.. reagan was the "prop"..

Reagan won two elections decisively, and it's impossible for anyone to argue with a straight face, that those elections were stolen. Limbaugh appeals to a very narrow segment of society. Reagan appealed to a broad swath of it. Limbaugh is loud, shrill and outrageous. Reagan was bland, friendly and avuncular. Prop or not- and historians are divided on that- he appealed to more voters than not.

Good actor + good script = happy audience.

... first off, he wasn't that good of an actor.

Secondly, the script wasn't that good either, mainly because it had to be dumbed down for the audience.

Which was blissfully manipulated by the Iran-Contra October surprise.

The fact is though, vast numbers of people sure did enjoy the act / illusion.

As for whether an actor is good or not... matter of opinion.

*Something* made people believe his bullshit.

I sure don't know what it was... God knows I never did... nor anyone I was close to.

He wasn't even Reagan's first choice for VP. At the '80 convention he initially wanted Gerald Ford, but Ford brought up the idea of a "co-presidency" and Reagan and his aides squashed that right away and announced that "lap dog" Poppy as his running mate. Poppy spent 8 years repudiating every moderate stand he might have taken and sucked up to Reagan and his inner circle so he could have there blessing for '88. He had a reputation as a wimp, thus the famous NEWSWEEK cover story on Bush's Wimp Factor in 1987. Say what you will about Cheney he was never a wimp. Sure, Ronnie had handlers around him like Nancy and Mike Deaver, but they never would have let Poppy that close.

:puke:

I was gonna add that!! :toast: proves your point.

:toast:

He sure as hell didn't communicate with me during those days...other than he was going to drive this country into the ground. It took 30 plus years, but "mission accomplished".

The Raygun myth comes from the same PR machine that says that Iraq was responsible for 9/11 and torture is "justified". You can't look back on those years like you can of the 60's and show some important legislation during those years. All people remember are his soundbites and flourishes, not the substance.

For the GOP to somehow spin his legacy as a "great" communicator is to dismiss tat one simple fact.

It is the big lie about that era.

Yeah, I've no doubt those types really do believe he was a "great communicator," given what they use as criteria and comparison.

policies but he did strike a chord with lots of people, not only Republicans, and as an actor and spokesman for many years he honed his craft and was quite persausive. As for when the "myth" started it was probably his speech for Goldwater in 1964 which was seen as the most effective speech for Goldwater in that year and got considerable comment in the press and donations for theh candidate. He was terrible off the cuff but with a script in front of him, such as his statement/speech when the Space Shuttle exploded he could be very good.

Just because "lots" of people believe it, doesn't make it true.

The Dover school board decision was pretty damn awesome.

Lawrence v. Texas was "right".

I'd also add Tammy Duckworth's confirmation as something to be proud of too.

I'm sure there are more, but it's way late/early out here.

But aside from anti-sodomy laws being struck down, lol ... as a country....where's the overwhelming force for good in the world?

Don't forget how wonderful Stephen Colbert is.

the last 30l years? That's a rather childish pov.

I think it was more of a challenge for me than anything.

;)

:rofl:

You are correct... When I saw that map I almost blew my Pepsi through my nose.

They say Hitler had it too.

To paraphrase the film "American President" he took a bunch of dissatisfied voters who longed for the old times and told them what they wanted to hear.

he had.

Bush 1...he added 2 trillion...BushW 5 trillion

Obama is a smoother communicator imo.

could chat you up at the post office. Dumber than dirt didn't matter. When he lost his cognitive processes (which was occurring through much of his Presidency) he could read from a script and during those rare times he had to speak off the cuff Nancy would prompt him. That amiable persona took him a long way.

...it was that he had a gret delivery.

And Reagan ripped off Pink Floyd's Roger Waters with his famous "Tear down this wall" plea. ("Tear down the Wall", Pink Floyd, "The Wall" album, 1979, lyrics by Roger Waters)

Doesn't mean he was much of a President but he did have the skills as an orator.

By bestowing him with this "nickname," the GOP are merely propping up his non-existant legacy.

Like I said above, Reagan was unable to communicate the word AIDS until very late in his presidency.

Painting his pig of a legacy with the lipstick of an inaccurate nickname does not gloss over his inability to communicate.

I just wish they had paid Peggy Noonan more so she can shut up and retire already.

She deserved it if only for the lie that Reagan was anything more than a supporting actor in a bad B-movie.

Reporters had to submit questions in advance and have them approved.

Of course, this also meant that they could be pre-answered. So all of his pressers were scripted.

Sam Donaldson went off the reservation once and asked a surprise question during a presser and he was promptly banned from the White House.

Don't know why this well-known fact is never brought up by anyone on TV when this meme is discussed.

Everyone knew and everyone was in on it. It's probably because the MSM is embarrassed that they were complicit in this charade in order to maintain their "access", however phony it was, to the WH.

makes me crazy.

I hated the guy.

He is what made me into a political activist. I never gave a shit about politics until that bonehead was elected POTUS.

I have heard Democrats say that they liked him????? Yep. I have heard them say he wasn't such a bad president. He sucked. He blew. He did everything he could to fuck up CA and then did the same thing to the whole country.

It makes me nuts I tell ya!

K&R

:kick:

and "talked tough," which they also love.

I know he was in office during the Me-Me-Me 80's what with all the award-children-for-everything-they-do, so maybe the expectations were lowered for him.

Still doesn't make him a "great" communicator.

who CALLED him a great communicator.

They also repeatedly called him "the most popular president since World War II."

It was only AFTER he was out of office that the NY Times published an article revealing that Reagan's popularity ratings were only average and had at times gone lower than Jimmy Carter's.

It was part of my education in the amorality of the American media.

The difference between us and the former Soviets is that people in the Soviet Union KNEW they were being lied to. Most people here think we still have a truth-seeking, free press, if they don't think that it's "liberal propaganda."

Both June 12th, 1987 and January 28th, 1986 come to mind. Both speeches were given with the exact tone, emphasis, and setting needed for their purpose.

I'm sure there are non partisan historians that rank his communication abilities high as well as those who don't but those are still opinions. I would wager that in a non-partisan evaluation more than not would rank them high, but as I said that is my opinion. I do not believe that Reagan's adminstration had great communications ablities, I believe he personally did. I think it was his best political strength and he was able to use it to cause many, many people to vote for him that had no vested reason to do so.

A bad, poor, good, or great speech is in the eye and ear of the beholder, your opinion is as valid as mine or the biggest Reagan hater or lover.

To answer your question I would say the qualities to make one a "great" communicator would be

1) being able to convey the message at a level the intended audience is able to understand

2) being able to keep the intended audience focused on what you want them focused on

3) being able to inspire the intended audience to either believe what you say, to create empathy for either yourself, agenda or cause, or to cause them to take action upon what you say.

... and the third is what makes a great communicator.

And, you're correct, calling Reagan a "great" communicator is what the GOP base call him to convince themselves that they were not complicit in his failures and not an empirical description.

However, the legacy makers in The GOP Party™ are working very hard to create confusion so that in generations to come enough people will believe it to be an empirical description.

Why do you suppose they're hellbent on naming every damn thing after him?

LEGEND

:rofl:

Seriously... the mythology around that guy is rice-paper thin. If the M$M weren't so far up the ass of the corporatists, it'd be long gone.

http://www.roadsideamerica.com/tnews/NewsItemDisplay.php?Tip_AttrId=15810

Enjoy.

:puke:


x(

Reagan's spoke very clearly about the social disorders of the day to a huge group of scared people; they heard exactly what they needed to hear.

The Watts riots in 1965 shocked moderate voters, and the Berkeley student protests, such as the Free Speech movement, were seen by middle -class voters (in Reagan's words) as the work of a "neurotic minority? More dramatically, violent crime had risen sharply in the years before the election.

Reagan opposed civil rights legislation, denounced "beatniks," and dropped broad hints about his views of racial issues. It was this quest for order, and the first stirrings of the unfortunate white backlash, that provided the fuel for Reagan's ascent.

The scared idiots jumped on his band wagon and rode with him to Sacramento and then finally to the White House. He could deliver a good speech anytime anywhere in that faux folksy tone that White Bread Americans just ate up.

All charm and magic ended that fateful day he was shot. That was the beginning of his deterioration. I truly believe his dementia was a direct result of his age and the drugs used during his surgery and recovery.

I was always angry when he spoke early in his political career but I cringed at every word he said after he was shot. His whole second term as president was just awful. Remember that was the period he believed he was a decorated combat pilot during the Second World War.

To the followers of Ronnie-boy he was GREAT. I considered him less than great, but a better than just an 'average' actor. Your mileage may vary

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjWDrTXMgF8

and I thought it was actually pretty good. Reagan was nowhere near as gifted as Obama but was an order of magnitude better than chimp. Any candidate who can win in 49 states has to be a reasonably good communicator.

No one's calling him a "great communicator."

Only the conned thought he was a great communicator. Mostly it was just a phrase his fellow Republican con artists kept repeating.

I'm sorry, but his funeral was no great event of national mourning. The newswhores pretended it was, but the media was all choreographed and synchronized. I remember thinking that day that the true nature of the media was absolutely exposed.

I'm not sure when during his two terms it was, but he confused reality with his movies.

No, there was nothing great about that man, unless in the context of 'great liar' or 'great tool'.

Of course I have no proof, but this is the internets and I believe I'm not required to have proof to create a conspiracy theory.