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-..__... Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 09:58 AM
Original message
Reps. McCarthy and Israel announce "No fly, no buy" legislation.
Edited on Thu May-14-09 10:12 AM by -..__...
I thought we were supposed to have gotten past this feeding the terra machine frenzy?

Apparently not...




Reps. McCarthy and Israel to Stand with Law Enforcement and Announce ‘No Fly, No Buy' Act Today
Wednesday May 13, 2009

McCarthy and Israel to introduce bill to keep guns out of terrorists’ hands and to keep cops safe



Washington, DC—Today, May 13, 2009 at 11:00 a.m. Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (NY-04) and Steve Israel (NY-02) will host a press conference to announce the introduction of the No Fly, No Buy Act, which seeks to close the ‘terror gap’ by preventing people whose names appear on the Transportation Security Administration’s terrorist “no fly list” from being eligible to buy guns. At the event, Reps. McCarthy and Israel will be flanked by law enforcement officials and will be joined by the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence to highlight the importance of keeping guns out of the hands of people that are known or suspected terrorists and their continued commitment to fighting to strengthen gun violence prevention laws that protect police and our communities.



Under current law, terrorist watch list checks are not part of the Brady background check process, because being a suspected or known terrorist was and is not a disqualifying factor for firearm transfer/possession eligibility. The No Fly No Buy Act seeks to correct this serious loophole in our nation’s gun laws.



“For far too long, the ‘terror gap’ has left a wide open loophole in our nation’s gun safety laws that could allow terrorist to acquire guns the same way any law abiding citizen can. The No Fly, No Buy Act uses existing TSA data to update the NICS system with the names of known or suspected terrorists to disqualify them from passing the Brady Background Check. This is a common sense gun bill that will prevent guns from falling into the wrong hands,” said Rep. McCarthy.



“Gun safety measures like the ‘No Fly, No Buy’ Act should be a no brainer for every Member of Congress. It’s common sense legislation. I’m proud to be introducing this bill with Congresswoman McCarthy. She’s on a mission to end gun violence in this country, and for as long as I’ve been in Congress I’ve been proud to support her in those efforts,” said Rep. Steve Israel.



Newly released FBI data documents 230 occasions in 2006 where persons on the violent gang and terrorist watch list were able to purchase guns. Furthermore, in January 2005, the GAO reported that in a five-month period—February 3, 2004 through June 30, 2004—NICS checks resulted in an estimated 650 terrorist-related record hits in their databases. Of these, 44 were found to be valid. However, 35 of these transactions were allowed to proceed because being identified as a known or suspected terrorist is not grounds to prohibit a person from being transferred a firearm under current law.



Since 9-11, Congress has passed many laws to improve homeland security. Yet, this loophole remains open. If someone is denied the chance to board an airplane because of suspected ties to terrorists, then they should also be denied the opportunity to purchase a gun. Individuals with ties to terrorists have bought guns in the past and used them to kill Americans. Some notable incidents:



In the summer of 2007, six terror suspects were arrested for plotting an attack on Fort Dix after trying to buy an assortment of M-16s, AK-47s, and handguns from a government informant. On December 22, 2008, five of the six suspects were convicted of conspiracy to kill U.S. military personnel - three of those convicted were sentenced yesterday to life in prison without possibility of parole. The sixth suspect pleaded guilty in October 2007 to providing firearms to illegal aliens, and was sentenced to 20 months in prison. In addition, four of the five suspects convicted of conspiracy were also convicted of illegal gun possession.



On February 23, 1997, Ali Abu Kamal opened fire on the observation deck of the Empire State Building with a handgun purchased in Florida in violation of federal law, killing one tourist and wounding six others before killing himself.



On March 1, 1994, Rashid Baz shot and killed 16-year old Ari Halberstam on an on-ramp to the Brooklyn Bridge. Baz was armed with a machine gun, a 9 MM pistol, and a "street sweeper" shotgun.



On November 5, 1990, El Sayed A. Nosair assassinated Rabbi Meir Kahane in a Manhattan hotel with a .357 revolver with a defaced serial number. Nosair was linked to the perpetrators of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.



Reps. Carolyn McCarthy Steve Israel will introduce the No Fly, No Buy Act of 2009. The bill seeks to close the terror gap. The bill amends the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act to prohibit: (1) the sale or other disposition of a firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person is an individual required to be prevented from boarding an aircraft; and (2) the shipment, transport, possession, or receipt of a firearm or ammunition by such individuals.


http://carolynmccarthy.house.gov/?sectionid=155§iontree=189,155&itemid=1038


What other rights should be denied simply because one is a suspect... on a list that is not even made public?
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
1. People on the Sooper Seekrit Terra List shouldn't be allowed to vote either
:sarcasm:
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
2. Great. Way to continue the Bush terror list legacy.
Edited on Thu May-14-09 10:03 AM by TheWraith
The "terror gap." What a stack of bullshit. I didn't really have any respect for McCarthy before, but I thought Steve Israel had more sense than this.
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Turbineguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
3. "terror gap"
Gee Stainsy, is that like a "mineshaft gap"?
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
4. I'm thinking people on the no fly list shouldn't be able to enter national parks,
Edited on Thu May-14-09 10:08 AM by John Q. Citizen
something like that...
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RandomThoughts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
5. I do not need a gun, nor to I plan on buying one
But.

NO WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (I had to remove a swear word this is so obscene of an idea)

Secret list of citizens, without a review process hindering movement is bad enough, and something that needs to go away.

But what this is moving into direct limiting of rights held by some, because your name ends up on a secret list.

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

This is preposterous, intolerable, ridiculous, and can not stand, furthermore no fly list must have a method to be reviewed and accurate based on guilt, not suspicion.

Whats next, you upset a certain group, or person in a government group, and you can't go to a sports game, can't go to a convention, can't drive a car, can't own a house. This logic says that hidden secret list can take away rights, or make rules on subsets of society.

It can not stand!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
6. Senator Edward M. Kennedy himself is on one of those no-fly lists
Therefore, according to Carolyn McCarthy, he shouldn't be allowed to own a gun, either.

Not that I think he'd ever want anything more than an old family hunting rifle, but there you go.
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RandomThoughts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
7. It also says it is to keep cops safe.
Edited on Thu May-14-09 10:17 AM by RandomThoughts
What if a cop goes to a peaceful political protest, and gets put on the list. What if he refuses some order based on 'constitutional' grounds. The official training says people that refer to constitutional rights, should be suspect. Does that get him on the list?

What if the police officer reported corruption, and someone wanted to punish him by putting him on an inaccurate secret list.
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X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
8. Rep "Shoulder-thing-that-goes-up" McCarthy strikes again.
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RandomThoughts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. The topic is not gun control
Edited on Thu May-14-09 10:26 AM by RandomThoughts
Gun control has nothing to do with this issue. It is about using secret lists, that are inaccurate, not based on guilt, to limit any right, or create any subset in society.

It is not about gun control.

You want to take away someone gun ownership, then show they can not handle having a gun, or make a requirement that is evenly applied and open to citizen review.

I guess only the boy scouts being trained to charge onto buses in paramilitary fashion are the good citizens that should have guns.

Who decides that?


INTOLLERABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And posting a few tragedies does not make the point. Yes gun violence is bad, and the sadness of loss is horrible. So why not just chain everyone to a desk at work, and have a cot next to there desk, there would be no violence.

People who support the idea this is needed in society are Cowardly pathetic. Unless there reason is to lead to removal of all guns, in that case they are insincere and dishonest, change the constitution if you want that.

Do real work of supporting programs that lead people from crime if you are worried about gang guns, or use proven convictions as measure for limitations.
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X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Wholeheartedly agree!!
It's about the right to face one's accuser, free speech (if attending the wrong 'event' gets you on the list), ex post facto laws, and last but not least, limiting the exercise of the second amendment.

Bad bad bad all around.

I think we should all go find the most racist, hate-mongering, despicable groups we can find and then sign up for their newsletter or membership- as 'Carolyn McCarthy from Long Island, NY'. Once she gets on the 'list' by mistake, it just might wake her up to the reality of how unconstitutional these kinds of things are.
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RandomThoughts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Well I understand your use of an example to show her
But I think, unless the reason is insincere, people have to be able to understand it is wrong. The only argument for it is 'some people in secret need to control everything' And that ain't gonna happen.
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
12. McCarthy's one big issue is guns, and it got her...
the election to the House by sympathy vote. Seems she's gone a bit over the edge lately, and if I knew her better I might think she's just fucking nuts.

She's ramping up for a primary challenge to Gillibrand, going under the curious assumption that upstate New Yorkers hate guns as much as she does.

Truth is, I mostly agree with her on gun things but no way do I think it should be the single-issue dealkiller it's become, or a reason for insanely stupid laws. I'll keep Gillibrand, thankyouverymuch, and don't see any need for another primary bloodletting or more gun or terror idiocy.

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-..__... Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. McCarthy is a one note tuba...
Edited on Thu May-14-09 08:04 PM by -..__...
Playing the same flat note over and over and over again.

She has no concerns about violating other Constitutional rights if it's all in the name of her crusade... even if it means resorting to deception and dishonesty...



In the summer of 2007, six terror suspects were arrested for plotting an attack on Fort Dix after trying to buy an assortment of M-16s, AK-47s, and handguns from a government informant. On December 22, 2008, five of the six suspects were convicted of conspiracy to kill U.S. military personnel - three of those convicted were sentenced yesterday to life in prison without possibility of parole. The sixth suspect pleaded guilty in October 2007 to providing firearms to illegal aliens, and was sentenced to 20 months in prison. In addition, four of the five suspects convicted of conspiracy were also convicted of illegal gun possession.


How and why does attempting to purchase stolen government M-16s (and AK-47s and handguns), from a government informant tie into a NICs
background check? Should the informant have been expected/require to conduct one?



On February 23, 1997, Ali Abu Kamal opened fire on the observation deck of the Empire State Building with a handgun purchased in Florida in violation of federal law, killing one tourist and wounding six others before killing himself.


As stated , he obtained the firearm in violation of federal law. Yeah... so, the honorable Mrs. McCarthys legislation (had it been in place), would have prevented this, how?



On March 1, 1994, Rashid Baz shot and killed 16-year old Ari Halberstam on an on-ramp to the Brooklyn Bridge. Baz was armed with a machine gun, a 9 MM pistol, and a "street sweeper" shotgun.


A "machine gun" and a "street sweeper" shotgun!?!

I guess her selfish ignorance has left her deaf to a little bit of federal legislation called "the National Firearms Act".


On November 5, 1990, El Sayed A. Nosair assassinated Rabbi Meir Kahane in a Manhattan hotel with a .357 revolver with a defaced serial number. Nosair was linked to the perpetrators of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.


Hello... McFly! Rabbi Meir Kahane was on of the founders of the JDL.

Think there might have been just a tad of friction/animosity involved there?


I'm sorry about McCarthys personal loss, but she's just a sad, bitter piece of work that needs to retire.
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JHB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
13. There was a time I'd be tempted to support this...
...not because I think it's good law but because it would reveal just how over-extensive and over-reaching those lists are, and would quickly get both reformed.

But now, no, no way. I've seen too many idiotic things take on a life of their own, and I'm sure selective enforcement of this would be far too easy.

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