I have to admit...I'm concerned.

I'm curious. Why did we fight so hard to put the Dems in Congress, to put a Dem in the Oval Office? Was it to, hopefully, look at reversing some of the worse trends that have afflicted us over the past dozen or more years? Usurious interest rates, skyrocketing healthcare, college education growing more and more expensive, and yet less and less effective at guaranteeing a good job once it's finished? Two wars that cannot be won, one of which in the very place where the Soviet military became mired, itself helping to end the Soviet Union once and for all.

I'm not much for blind loyalty. I voted for these people, I fought for them with my words, because I'd hoped that they'd actually represent us and work to protect US, the People, from being taken advantage of by unscrupulous corporate types. Okay, I'll admit it. I'm occasionally naive. Then again, I think hope is perhaps one of our greatest gifts. People without hope are simply grist for the mill.

It's things like the credit card "reform," locking single-payer advocates out of the debate, and ignoring the long term military, social, and political ramifications of torture that cause people to close the door on politics, to become what some like to call "apathetic," but I prefer to refer to as "disillusioned."

They won't fight for us. Not as a group, anyway. If 60% of Americans want single payer universal health care, who are these people to refuse to discuss it? Our employees? Our representatives? Or do they see themselves as something else entirely? These discussions should have nothing to do with what's best for the insurance and pharmaceutical industries, but what's best for Americans and America as a whole. Inviting them to participate in the debate is a bit like inviting the local meth dealers to a town meeting to discuss how best to deal with the meth epidemic.

Cries of "socialism!" from the right notwithstanding, it's about time the United States took a long look at the possibility of doing something akin to the rest of the western world. Putting the health and welfare of its citizens before the profitability of industry. We should have expected this attitude towards torture from the right, considering how much satisfaction and joy they get out of torturing logic. I'll be damned if I'll understand why someone making 25,000 dollars a year and paying several hundred dollars a month in health insurance would fight single-payer universal health care. Okay, I realize some of it's fear, fear that the Limbaughs and Hannitys have fomented for their own ideological purposes.

I'm serious when I say I'm concerned. What percentage of our ostensibly "democratic" senators and representatives actually serve US rather than corporate interests? I know that both Patty Murray and Maria Cantwell voted against the 15% interest rate cap. Can someone please explain to me how it benefits the vast majority of their constituents to be stuck with clearly usurious interest rates?

And Obama, in his speech on the subject, made me wonder as well. Certainly people should accept some of the responsibility for what they've done with their credit cards, but there is NO reason to tolerate the unethical and underhanded way many of these companies operate. We the People are currently loaning BILLIONS of dollars to the banks and yet, somehow, their perspective, their profitability, trumps the long-term welfare of the American people.

No, the Democrats aren't anywhere near as bad as the Republicans. Unfortunately, that's about the same as saying a rattlesnake isn't nearly as bad as a water moccasin--at least the rattler will warn you before it bites.

The Republican Party's discussion about renaming the Democratic Party can only leave one scratching one's head and thinking WTF? Wouldn't it have to actually act as though it GAVE a shit about the people to be the least bit socialist? So far I'm seeing only a few members of Congress acting that way. And, funny thing, one of those who are isn't a Democrat at all, but a SOCIALIST in truth.

More tortured logic from the masters of torture.


If this country is going to recover from what Bushco did to it, certain things will have to happen. We have to truly move into the 21st Century. We need unswerving dedication to finding clean, renewable energy, we need universal health care, we need a minimum standard of workers' rights, and we need a complete overhaul of our banking system intended not to serve the banks and their shareholders, but to serve the United States as a whole. They should be able to accept a reasonable profit margin rather than trying to stretch it beyond reason at every opportunity. Enough is enough.

Without these things, the U.S. will have abandoned any chance it has of remaining a real world power, and the end of the union will become a certainty no matter how long it actually takes. The way things are going, I have to wonder how many of the Dems are complicit, complacent, lazy, or just plain cowardly.

People are left asking "so, what do the Democrats stand for?" And the only answer we can give at this moment is "Fuck if we know." Because they clearly don't stand for defending the people against the banking industry, or the insurance and pharmaceutical giants. They don't stand for workers' rights. They don't stand for prosecuting war crimes.

So, indeed, what DO they stand for?

Fuck if I know.

It will take a real revolt for the DC crowd to perhaps get it

oh and that revolt can come in many forms... and it won't be pretty or pleasant.

Part of the whole plan was to take the peoples' power away wherever they could, because people who feel as though they have no power don't bother to vote. Right now we're seeing a large portion of us, people who fought to put these Dems in office, getting a taste of the very stuff that disillusioned so many in the past. We vote, but it means nothing. We defend these people, only to be forced to defend them again next time.

What kind of revolt can we have, given that the larger part of the population doesn't care, doesn't get it, or doesn't think they have any power to affect change?

politicians need to keep taking dollars where ever they can: because they HAVE to to afford TV, radio, election (re-election) costs.

To start protesting THEM. But no one wanted to jump on that boat. They're probably our most powerful adversary, and we do nothing to confront them.

campaign financing. they support the corps so that they get personal kick-backs and employment for family or themselves once they are out of public service. if they were corrupted just for campaign donations, why don't they legislate public-financing-only elections? but no. it won't happen because many of them want the kick-backs.

actually gets the attention of the ruling class!

http://www.lutins.org/labor.html

Notice the date of the last action as well as the progression restricting the ability of people to organize

I don't think we'd get anywhere.

But we need to start the organizing now... I fear

And getting the concept out there as it were

when the French truck drivers shut down Paris---FOR A WEEK!!! I believe my memory is correct on this. After a week of having the city entirely shut down (trucks blocked many major streets), that would be my suggestion for getting these freaks attention. Their protest was for something pertaining to working conditions or wages...and the drivers won. And guess what? We have plenty of trucks in this country (the big rig variety).

So said the poster girl for Republican "trophy wives" with agendas and good divorce attorneys although I doubt Georgette Mosbacher really realized what she was saying. Vacous people rarely do.

What's scary is the number of vacous people in Washington. Wave a dollar bill around, and they will follow it wherever it leads them.

And that is how we ended up with the Republicrat Party becoming the majority party in Washington. The money.

Money is their Pied Piper. None of them realize the Pied Piper always leads you to the river and drowns you. Unfortunately this Pied Piper will drown all of us.

They do this so when the time comes to save your skin, you stop paddling and execute an "Air Brace" with gives you no support or control, and then you are promptly swept over the waterfall. This was the analogy given to me by Tom Johnson of Kernville, CA, ex olympiad Kayaker. That advice is very true in many areas of life. It was his way of saying keep paddling, or be at the mercy of the current.

Don't panic. You can take basic steps to survive any strike, work stoppage, or interruption in services that may arise if these jerkwads don't wake up and realize that they are pushing it way beyond the limit. Make sure you store up some drinking water and generally have an earthquake kit in order and then take a day or two off.

All people have to do is stop showing up for work for a few days, and the mere sight of empty roads, empty stores, empty toll plaza'a, empty mass transit, empty mailboxes, etc, and the PTB would have a heart attack.

All of this talk about a strike is way to complicated. I think by starting simple and implementing a day of "I'm not feeling well" would go a long way. And if anyone is interested as to why you're not feeling well, tell the truth and tell them that your heart is broken that the Government is failing.

With todays cameras linked to a database happy police force, why on earth would anyone want to go out and present themselves to scrutiny for future processing. Not me. I'll just disappear in the comfort of my own home and refuse to play their game for a few days, and see how they like a taste of real mass disobedience, where nobody presents themselves to the cops to be brutalized, and the police is sitting around with their thumbs up their ass waiting for the conflagration that never comes.

It would make Gandhi and Martin Luther King proud, and it would honor their assasinated Souls, which demonstrated the power of passive resistance to the utter horror of the British and Uncle Sam respectively.

America represents the extremely rich. We have the best Congress money can buy and Will Rogers once said.

or maybe I am naive, I still can't figure out which one. One being torture prosecutions, I think if there is a momentum shift with the American public and certain people in the congress we could see it. But I will say it's not because of President Obama, I think he has proved how he feels about it, sweep it under the rug, no looking back, you know the drill.

I've been fighting for fair politics for far too many years and instead of getting better, it only seems to get worse.

I live in a very RED County, we can't even get a rally going here much less a movement. Let me know when "the plan" has been offered, I'll be there to help!

Geez, I can't even get my Senators or Representative to answer any of my inquiries!!

It ALL ABOUT THE GREEN... not grass... MONEY!!!!

"we the People" is to force term limits for ALL political positions (at every level), completely eliminate campaign contributions, and make all special interest lobbying illegal.

This is the only possible way to ensure that a politician is not working for his own good or for that of a group that has an agenda that benefits one subset over another ... no matter how virtuous or beneficial that group feels their agenda is. Because ultimately any legislation that unduly benefits one group will negatively affect another.

Only one problem: voting to impose term limits and eliminate contributions and special interest lobbying requires a politician to cut his/her own economic throat. We will never see a significant percentage of representatives put their careers in that position, let alone a majority of them.

You can force turnover in the actual reps and senators, but the people pulling their strings will still be there.

And while some of the new blood won't be as corrupt (right off) they also won't know the ropes as well and won't know when they're being had.

to US. Now it belongs to the media moguls mentioned below. THAT is why Congress does the bidding of the wealthy and powerful instead of the little guy. They have to to get elected, and media time costs so darn much. Most don't go to Washington to get rich -though it happens- they go to do good things for their voters. But then they need to stay there -get RE-elected - and that takes more very expensive media exposure.
Lower the cost of getting elected by forcing media outlets to offer free or reduced political ad costs and you get Congress people who do not have to spend all the time fund raising. The waving of dollars will not corrupt their moral compass as easily.
At least that how it SHOULD work!

Until big business is taken out of the election process, nothing is going to change.

This needs to happen, now!!

How do we get the Congress that is corrupted by the money to out law the money? The Senate openly flaunts their disdain to us.

taking back that which once was "ours" : the public airwaves. Legislate media to give reduced or free time for political office ads.

figure out how.

How do we get those that are deeply entrenched in our Congress to listen? Unless you are ready to vote republiCon, you can not dislodge an incumbent Democrat in the primaries. The Democratic Party will not help us one single bit. Big money will continue to go to those incumbents that are giving them a free lunch.

How do we convince those in Congress that live off lobbyist money to outlaw lobbying??

How do we tell those in Congress that love their job for life, to make term limits???

We have way more than enough people telling us what needs to be done. We get it. We need someone to tell us how.

Except the cost of buying Congress of course.

And you're right about about Congress and the Will Rogers quote. The more things change...

things are a whole lot better than they were in the last 8 years! Give him a little time folks. He's only had a little over 6 months and I've seen a lot of improvements!

I'm a little puzzled about the torture photos, but right now health care is my number 1 issue. I think if we don't institute single-payer we'll end up with a real serious crisis in a few years. If you're an American and you're sick or injured, you deserve treatment. We deserve at least as much as the Canadians, British, French, or Cubans. But the committee doesn't even want to HEAR about single-payer? Why is it THEIR choice? It should be ours.

Doesn't matter that an overwhelming majority of the public and health care workers support a public option. Cantwell's Seattle office said she has not been attending those Finance Health Care Reform hearings, but the DC office said that was not so and curious that their Seattle office would say that. I argued with the staffer and she "seemed" to concede that a public option is not about polling but I think she was just trying to get me off the phone. They don't get it.

"doesn't get it". The congressional staffers know very well who the congressmen, congresswomen and senators work for. They work for and only pay attention to their supporters and by supporters they mean donors and donors by definition means big donors which are the CORPORATIONS.

The average voting JQ Public.......ha, ha ,ha, screw them, they are clueless.

real power we have left is civil disobedience.

:sarcasm:

name ten.

...here's my list of 10 improvements:

1. Massive investment toward infrastructure
2. Reaching out to foreign countries in a civil manner (even our "enemies")
3. Toning down National Prayer Day
4. Ordering the shutdown of Guantanamo
5. Increase in Pell Grant funding
6. Putting in place plans to withdraw from Iraq
7. Releasing the torture memos
8. Allowing California (and other states) to seek stricter auto standards
9. Voiding leases of land around National Parks for oil/gas exploration
10. Tripling of funding for Americorps

I'll add one more for good measure, an intangible which is possibly the most important:

11. Changing the psyche of the American people to believe that anything is possible, and to inspire them to look beyond their own individual needs and wants.

1. Massive investment toward infrastructure - ok, when does that start?

2. Reaching out to foreign countries in a civil manner (even our "enemies")- pretty smile is nice, the bombing of Pakistan not so great

3. Toning down National Prayer Day - who cares? (and I'm an atheist)

4. Ordering the shutdown of Guantanamo - and move them to Bagram where they don't have to follow habeus corpus. Right.

5. Increase in Pell Grant funding - OK, I'll give you that one

6. Putting in place plans to withdraw from Iraq - "putting in place plans" - I'll believe it when I see it

7. Releasing the torture memos - and now is in court fighting to keep it all secret.

8. Allowing California (and other states) to seek stricter auto standards - again, big deal.

9. Voiding leases of land around National Parks for oil/gas exploration - Ok, that is ok, so that's two

10. Tripling of funding for Americorps - WTF is "Americorps" - that sounds like conscription to me.

2 of 10 even worth talking about. Can we come up with some more?

And these are 10. You may not like them. But they are improvements. They affect more people than you, and newsflash - there are more people than you in this country and the world.

If you want improvements just for yourself, then run for office. But in the meantime, appreciate improvements.

And just to answer your points...

1) Go to recovery.gov. And also google around and you'll see lots of money allocated. Some projects have even started. It will take time for the majority projects to get underway. But allocating money for these projects in itself is an improvement.

2) Treating foreign leaders as human beings is a big step in regaining America's leadership. Again, an improvement.

3) You are an atheist - exactly why toning down National Prayer Day is a good thing. Keeping religion out of politics - another improvement.

4) Shutting down Guantanamo is a good step, regardless of how they handle the remaning detainees. At least some will be released, and some may end up in US prisons. Perhaps some will go to Bagram. The jury is out on that. But again, closing Guantanamo is an improvement.

5) Phew! We agree on at least one! :)

6) Setting a timetable was something the Bush admin consistently avoided. So it's an improvement to have a timetable in place, and communicate it to the whole world.

7) Torture memos and photos are two different things. I did not mention the photos. Administration is not fighting the release of the torture memos in court. Another improvement.

8) Big deal??? Really??? Stricter auto standards will improve environment and decrease reliance on foreign oil. Bush admin specifically disallowed this. So again an improvement.

9) Two we agree on!!! Woo-hoo!!!

10) Wow, we really see things differently. Americorps is a great opportunity for a lot of people in this economy, and helps so many people in need. Being cynical about it is a pretty unfortunate attitude. Tripling its funding is an improvement.

So these are all improvements. You may not love them, but they are improvements i.e. better than Bush (BTB - is that a new usable acronym???)

Also forgot to include lifting the ban on stem cell research, which is probably one of the most significant.

I also see lots of things Obama and his admin is doing wrong. And I could probably easily list 10 failures, maybe many more. I see both sides of the equation.

So you can keep living in denial and cynicism. But I see a different picture.

Is no consolation for continued failure. The original poster has it right--Obama's a nicer guy, but he isn't doing anything for average Americans. It's all about the corporate network. Expect Obama's poll numbers to drop precipitously over the next few months, especially as people realize that all we've had is happy talk and their lives still suck and are getting worse. And then maybe our President will get it. If not he's a one-termer with no meaningful positive legacy.

...but my list/comments were in response to a couple of people challenging someone to list 10 "improvements." Those are 10 improvements, plus a couple.

Yes, a lot of the improvements are not enough, and there are many areas where Obama/admin are failing. But let's not pretend that there are not any improvements.

2010 will be a great check-in point. Lots of Dems benefitted on Obama's coattails. This is not going to happen in 2010. If we truly feel that Dems let us down, let's not get involved in GOTV/fundraising. Yes, that means that repugs might make gains. But does it make any difference, at least from a Congress perspective? Congress is ineffective, lobbyist-owned, and insular to constituent opinion. Red, blue, whatever doesn't matter - they are all the same.

I appreciate your reasoned response. You're right--it's so much better now than under the former administration. I think you make an important point about Dem GOTV and fundraising. It just won't happen unless we feel we're doing better.

That was a long post...

Why did we vote fore the Democrats? because the Republicans had gone so completely apeshit that even the moderate Republicans had started wondering WTF? What's the difference? At this point, sure seems to be that Democrats are less bat shit insane. More reasonable?... well, relatively speaking, sure.
What do they stand for? Well... we as a country have taken the radical step, as I see it, of moving back to moderatism.
If you're a liberal... and want liberal stuff to happen... well, it would appear that you're expected to go fuck yourself. Or maybe I should say we're expected to go fuck ourselves.

Hell, even the unions are wondering if they're gonna be left by the wayside, and realistically speaking, they're a moderate voice with a fair amount of numbers. Defending credit card users from usury?... that would be bad for the recovery of the financial industries... so fuck that.

I can't remember what all else you ranted about... but the gist is clear. The Democrats are for the upper middle class... the homeowners and people earning enough to worry about their tax rates... and worry about what influence a health insurance reform might have on their current health insurance.
Those of us who don't own a home, don't have a cubicle job, and don't have health insurance... we don't even show up on the radar... They don't stand for us, much as we might've hoped a new face who'd had some time growing up on public assistance might've recognized that $250k is not a median income in the US...

The Democrats are about the wealthy side of the middle class, and making sure that they're owned homes aren't lost and their health insurance isn't lost... and maybe some day they'll give a god damn about the apartment dwellers without health insurance, if it doesn't cost them too much politically?...

If I were to take the time and effort to post something that long I would wait until later in the day where more people would read it.


As for the rest, I am questioning why I even read DU anymore. Evidently, for many the Democrats can do nothing right and that's an opinion shared by the freepers.

n/t

I think home ownership rate is over 60%. I own one. Only one, now that I sold my 'vacation home'. I don't have a cubicle job, and I have health insurance that costs over $5,000 a year for one person, half of which I pay myself.

Why did we vote for Democrats. Well, I think if I had a Democratic Representative I might be able to lobby for single payer or any number of other things. As it is, I have a Republican Representative and two Republican Senators. At least a little over half of all Democratic Senators voted for the interest rate cap. Did ANY Republicans?

I don't own a home. I've never owned a home, let alone a 'vacation home'. I've also never owned a new car. I have, however, on occasion splurged and bought a new pair of shoes. Usually I settle for used shoes, and pants, and shirts... like my used cars.

I did, for a couple of years, actually pay for health insurance. You know, that great program that allowed a mere $5k deductible with a $100k total coverage... for only $50/month... then $65/month, then $85/month... when they started asking for $95/month for that already shitty plan... I decided I'd be better off saving my money for posterity, and dying on the steps of city hall when the time came.

I'm in friggin' California. Up until VERY recently, in Oakland. Barbara Lee is as liberal as congresspeople get. Barbara Boxer is a close competitor for the title. Feinstein... well, I'll find someone else to vote for when her time comes again... even if it's Cthulu. My reps are solidly in my corner (well, I have no faith in Feinstein... hence my willingness to go with the Greater Evil). It makes no difference.

We voted for Democrats, methinks, in hope. Some of the promised ones sold us out. I'm used to being poor. I find a perverse satisfaction in in it. I'm more than a little deranged.

I hope for your sake that you can roll with the double cross. If not, I hope you can comfortably let go of your sanity, as I have done. Or at least let go of your faith.

You might also want to consider giving up paying all that money for health insurance. $5k a year?... you might, if you look at it coldly, find that your actual health care expenses are less than that if you save it to give to your doctor directly.
I realize only the insane will take my route of planning a death on the steps of city hall. I'd encourage more to join me though. If EVERYONE STOPPED PAYING FOR HEALTH INSURANCE... then they'd have to negotiate. or maybe they'll just rely on corporate customers and let the rest of us die. :shrug:

68.1% to be more precise. I put 'vacation home' in quotes since it was only a home in theory, being a 40 year old mobile home in the woods with a semi-collapsed roof.

Yeah, $2800 a year is a lot to pay for health insurance, but it has paid for about $20,000 worth of care, such as it is, and I am likely to have more ulcer and knee trouble, which is what my previous expenses have been.

Obama is looking out for your interests. It says so on the news.

I don't own a home. Don't have health insurance... and at this point I'm so pissed off at the health insurance companies I wouldn't take their coverage unless they offered it to me free.

I could die at any time. I'm unemployed. I had way too little faith in any job, let alone the economy itself, to ever trust any of the overall bullshit.. and not save enough cash to get me through it... should it come.

I'll just weather it out... eating home prepared black beans, re-training myself because, if I can learn to pretend like I'm 20 years old, I can get a new job...

Barnie Frank said recently on Bill Maher that the embedded RW'ers should leave our party not have the majority of Dems leave our own party. Bernie Sanders' recent amendment to cap usury, 20 Dem Senators crossed the aisle to vote with the slime. That leaves a majority of Dem senators who voted to cap credit card rates at 15%.

The "For the People" portion of the Dem Party is the majority.

Never trust bullshit. You are not powerless.

I just mean to say that, unless you fit the profile of the middle class, the government really isn't going to do much for you.

I looked at the numbers, and 35 Dem senators voted for Sanders' bill. It looked like 4 didn't make it to vote. That's 39, and then there were 20 that voted against Sanders' amendment. Giving the 4 the benefit of the doubt (especially since Teddy Kennedy was among them)... that's still fully 1/3 of Dem senators that like credit card interest rates.
I'm sure glad I never bothered to want enough stuff to run up any credit card debt...

The "For the People portion of the Dem Party may be the majority of the Dem Party... but it's a minority of the government. Who knows though, maybe a bone will be thrown to The People at some point in the future.
I'm not gonna hold my breath.

between the DLC/Blue Dog Democrats and what's left of the Republican Party. That coalition is otherwise known as "the Money Party."

Re The "For the People" portion of the Dem Party is the majority.

We've all known about it for a while now. The question is what are we going to do about it? What CAN we do about it?

on the Democratic Party when we need to get out the pitch forks and torches for the conservaDems who are a minority of our Party.

If you have money you must donate to Progressive challengers. If you only have time you must donate that as well. Civil disobedience and make the lives of bad Dems miserable or at least try. We are not powerless.

Most Americans live in lala land. They think they can affect via the vote. Wake up. THERE ARE NO PROGRESSIVE CHALLENGERS FOR THE INCUMBENT RED DOG DEMS. When LaMont tried to challenge good ole boy Lieberman he was smote by the Democratic party. The party will never, fucking ever support a challenger to an incumbent. Now please explain what you are suggesting. I said please

It is too early for civil disobedience maybe in a year when millions more are out of work. And then hyper-inflation will completely wipe out the wealth of the middle class. But please, don't try to tell me we can work within the system.

The only choice people have is to get involved and take over the party from the inside. Lifetime commitment. The incumbents will retire eventually.

Stranger things have happened than the progressive wing of the party ascending, no?

Humbly I admit I don't know what to do in the short term.

I am a big fan of Thom Hartmann and he says as you said. I have tried that road. It looks like a decade process. And I fear one that could easily be undone with a major crisis like 911.

and thanks for continuing to dialog after my frustration started to surface.

what i think will happen, is that things will continue to get worse and people will eventually strike and protest. The greedy corporatists can't stop themselves from killing the goose.

I am 47 and my husband is 55. We can't find jobs to save our lives. We applied for a program for our son today that provides jobs to low income youth. The girl that called us that is over the program sounded like she was about 20 years old. How in the world did she get that job when we have twice the experience and probably twice the education that she has? Probably because these places are afraid of anyone over 50 that they think they might have to pay something to. We are considering the re-training option too but frankly, we are both tired of school. We both have Master's degrees, we don't want to go to more school. We just want decent jobs.

We need a powerful new third party to emerge. I know, we could call it the labor party. Something has to happen.

And I am sorry that it didn't take longer to see the writing on the wall.

I was hoping for things to be quite different. But when a nation has moved lockstep with neo Nazis for eight years, to the Far Far Far right, then a Far Right President doesn't seem so bad.

Or so we are led to believe.

Yet what would it hurt for Obama to allow for Single Payer Universal Health Care? If we don't get that I will not vote for another Democrat for President. Locally I will still support Dems. But not on the Federal Level. They want to offer themselves up like prostitutes for thehighest bidder, than they can rely on the highest bidder for their votes.

It's a shame that we hate people who go to prostitutes more than we had the politicans who are part of the oldest prfession.

I ain't doing it anymore, if that's what you're into.

... going to vote for on the federal level, then?


<<It's a shame that we hate people who go to prostitutes more than we had the politicans who are part of the oldest prfession.>>

could not agree with you more. (Spitzer for Prez! lol, jk)

The Puppet Masters change the face occasionally - but this last insult cuts way to deep. I watch my state, California, imperiled by its sixteen billion dollar shortfall - which represents to date only one fifth of one percent of the NINE TRILLION dollars that Obama has allowed to go from Main St to Wall Street. Now Ahnold says that he will go to the Fed or to Treasury and borrow nine billion.

So we are watching my state go begging to Wall Street for money that the citizens of this state have already given them. (Since California represents one tenth of the United States population, we have given up 900 billion dollars to Geithner and Bernanke's nefarious schemes.)

Really and truly - I could have done a better job of handling this mess. But that is not the point. Since I would never agree to sell out, there is hardly an ice cube's chance in hell of my getting elected beyond the very local level.

The County I live in has some excellent radically progressive Dems - so on the local level I will probably always have someone to vote for. Goddess be praised.

Seemingly not very much.

Which was the cause of their downfall the last go around.

to say the least. More like feeling pissed off and betrayed. Where is the REAL change we were promised? But no - what do we get - bank bailouts and basically doing anything the big corporations want. There are still good Dems out there like Dennis Kucinich, John Kerry, Barbara Boxer, Russ Feingold, but they are few in number - and only Dennis am I 100% sure is on OUR (the people's) side. It's quite disturbing that we are just another corporate party now - and seemingly no longer the party of "the people". :(

they've caused state governments (where there actually are decent Democrats holding sway) to make some very unpopular decisions re: taxes and service cut that could have been prevented- and which, like the credit card usury is hurting the overall economy.

Even with the Republicans in disarray, it's beginning to look a lot like 1993-94.

"The way things are going, I have to wonder how many of the Dems are complicit, complacent, lazy, or just plain cowardly."

I can come to no other conclusion than they are complicit. They are being rewarded for being complicit, it is not ideological. And you have every reason to be concerned.

That once we elected a democrat that some wonderful,grand utopia would spring forth from the ashes of the last admin? This country and on a larger scale this world have never been perfect,never has been,isn't now and never will be. President Obama is a human being and also remember...a politician.

You think health care that isn't is because he's just human?

Most people just want jobs they can keep and to be self-sufficient and you think that's too much to ask for? Or that it's unrealistic to expect Obama to act on it so soon?

The shock that Obama hasn't followed through on some of his bigger campaign promises! Politicians of both parties always make promises they can't keep! Then the people who voted for them act all shocked and shaken when Surprise! he can't deliver! It never occurs to most people that they promise things just to get elected and then move the goal posts afterward! The jobs creation thing i'll agree he should be able to get done{especially with all the money he's spending} But single payer health care? Don't hold your breath. Far too expensive especially if you are already having a problem with job creation!

that they were preparing legislation that they knew would not pass or would be vetoed by Bush with the expectation that the next Democratic President would sign as soon as we elected him or her.

We were also made promises if we had 60 Dem Senators.

It isn't all about Obama, there are expectations of Congress and now it is glaringly obvious that no matter what Obama wants to do, there is a powerful minority of rightwing Democrats that are going to block anything meaningful.

It sounds like you have expectations that Democrats who run for office should actually say things during the campaign that they really mean, and then DO THOSE THINGS once elected.

You envision a government that works for the benefit of all the people, not just corporations and the wealthy.

You surely must hate America if this is what you wish for and expect, because the media is telling us that these things are bad for America.

Of course, the media has no responsibility to tell the truth, or do anything that doesn't increase their mega-corporation's bottom line. Hmmm...could that be a problem as well? Surely not, our elected representatives would want the truth to be told to the people, correct? :shrug:

You wrote the words, but I share your thoughts. Thanks for the great post! It should be sent to EVERYONE in Congress.

and emigration starts to overtake immigration. What's so enticing about a country that takes in more money than any other country in the world but is loathe to spend a penny of it on improving the lives and well-beings of the citizens? What is to be proud of about a representational government that only represents moneyed interests, corporations, lobbyists and actually works to thwart the goals of the citizens? We get crumbs from our government. Voters are treated with outright condescension. Obama in the town hall yesterday said "oh, there's the little single payer supporters"(!)

Yes, I expected more. I love your post and I clearly share your thoughts. K&R

Can you find a link for me - I would be much obliged if you can.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/05/barack-obama-townhall-new-mexico.html

Now, this brings to the last principle, and so this touches on your point, and that is, why not do a single-payer system. (Applause.) Got the little single-payer advocates up here. (Applause.) All right. For those of you who don't know, a single-payer system is like -- Medicare is sort of a single-payer system, but it's only for people over 65, and the way it works is, the idea is that you don't have insurance companies as middlemen. The government goes directly -- (applause) -- and pays doctors or nurses.

:eyes:

He really said that? :wtf: :grr: So mocking what the majority of Americans want, is what he does now? NICE! :eyes:

they seem to have their own agenda, screw the voters. Except Bernie Sanders and Dennis Kucinich who, about 99% of the time, stand for the people.

We won't have the idiot scion to run against. The republicans may run someone less of a total joke like mccain. We won't have the majority long if the only difference between the corporate Democrats and the corporate republicans is one letter.

Republican whine. Both of them scream bloody murder about how they didn't get what they expected, and differ only in just what it was they expected.

40 million without health care? Well, what do the 250 million who have it say about paying for that 40 million? Statistics from a pushpoll on single payer ain't gonna move anyone when what pretty much all of us want is decent health coverage where the cost doesn't break us and we really don't give a shit how we get it.

Economic recovery? Find ANYONE who has successfully managed a $13 trillion economy from recession to growth and ask him or her how they did it. Nobody to ask? Then we gotta feel our way along, and mistakes will be made.

War, torture, and all that other happy horseshit? Getting out of a war costs damn near as much as getting into one. You don't just pull some ships up to the dock and everyone sails into the sunset. Besides, things are so fucked up now that Pakistan, with a hundred or so nukes, just might be taken over by the Taliban. And when was the last time anyone in a major power got tried for war crimes? Shit, we couldn't even get Idi Amin or Papa Doc a parking ticket.

Democrats stand for stable and slow change for the better in a very dangerous world where big mistakes can cause bigger problems. Democrats stand for adult and professional management of government with little or no ideology driving it. Representative democracy is messy and we'll never see a perfect solution, and rarely even a very good one, but at least we can now see two steps forward for every step back, instead of the other way.

A Democratic whine isn't much different from a...Republican whine. Both of them scream bloody murder about how they didn't get what they expected, and differ only in just what it was they expected.

Right. So we should just sit down and shut up, then?

40 million without health care? Well, what do the 250 million who have it say about paying for that 40 million? Statistics from a pushpoll on single payer ain't gonna move anyone when what pretty much all of us want is decent health coverage where the cost doesn't break us and we really don't give a shit how we get it.

And do any of us really believe that the insurance companies have any intention of giving this to us? Can we just stop pretending that selfishness is a virtue? With 40 million uninsured and several more million under-insured, we're already paying the cost in terms of public health and loss of productivity. Or do you really think that mandatory insurance is the way to go? I don't. People have enough on their plates as it is.

Economic recovery? Find ANYONE who has successfully managed a $13 trillion economy from recession to growth and ask him or her how they did it. Nobody to ask? Then we gotta feel our way along, and mistakes will be made.

Well, of course. Mistakes don't bother me nearly as much as the idea that it's all bought and paid for by industry.

War, torture, and all that other happy horseshit? Getting out of a war costs damn near as much as getting into one. You don't just pull some ships up to the dock and everyone sails into the sunset. Besides, things are so fucked up now that Pakistan, with a hundred or so nukes, just might be taken over by the Taliban. And when was the last time anyone in a major power got tried for war crimes? Shit, we couldn't even get Idi Amin or Papa Doc a parking ticket.

Even IF we get out of Iraq, for example, we're going to be in a very difficult situation if it comes to dealing with the Taliban in Pakistan. If we STAY in Iraq and/or Afghanistan, we're seriously fucked. We may not have the option of pulling out slowly. Let's stop pretending we will.

Democrats stand for stable and slow change for the better in a very dangerous world where big mistakes can cause bigger problems. Democrats stand for adult and professional management of government with little or no ideology driving it. Representative democracy is messy and we'll never see a perfect solution, and rarely even a very good one, but at least we can now see two steps forward for every step back, instead of the other way.

Speaking strictly for me, it might be nice to see an example of that "representation," rather than seeing corporate interests being represented so forcefully.

Right. So we should just sit down and shut up, then?

It's just whining and kvetching when you bitch and moan without a solution. Or even identifying what the real problems are.

And do any of us really believe that the insurance companies have any intention of giving this to us? Can we just stop pretending that selfishness is a virtue? With 40 million uninsured and several more million under-insured, we're already paying the cost in terms of public health and loss of productivity. Or do you really think that mandatory insurance is the way to go? I don't. People have enough on their plates as it is.

Curiously, millions of people already have good coverage through their insurance companies-- how did that happen?. Insurance isn't the only answer, but where do I see reasonable and workable alternatives proposed? And where is the problem of "medical inflation" addressed?

Well, of course. Mistakes don't bother me nearly as much as the idea that it's all bought and paid for by industry.

Oh, please! Industry gave you the computer you're typing on, the electricity to power it, and the chair you're sitting on. Like it or not, industry happens to be a large part of the nation, and a large part of why we fought the Revolutionary and Civil Wars. Rapacious magnates may be scumbags, but not all business is evil.

Corporations exist for one thing and one thing only. To make a profit. Our welfare as individuals or collectively as a society doesn't even factor into it. People pay a pretty penny to get that "good" coverage to which you refer, and even so the insurance companies will weasel as much as possible to keep from paying for things. I went to an ER after a week of migraines and they sent me a thing asking "Is this work related?" It's a fucking migraine, you morons. Even if it WERE work related, how in the hell would you propose to PROVE it?

Our health as individuals or as a society should not be remanded to the care of a for-profit system that currently exists. It doesn't serve us, it serves itself, and many of us are sick of it. (Pun not intended).

Medical inflation? How much of that do you think is pure profiteering on the part of those involved?

Industry isn't evil or good and I never suggested it was either. But I don't think these particular industries have our best interest at heart, and would be THRILLED to see health insurance be mandated by law. Fuck them and fuck anyone who thinks that's a good idea.

Military BUILDUP in Afghanistan?

Not passing credit card interest limits?

Not allowing single-payer advocates any voice in the discussions?

Giving insiders control of how the Wall Street bailout will be spent?

Looking for NEW "free" trade treaties?

"Stable and slow change"? I'm not even seeing that.

I always knew that Obama was only pretending to be a populist with his vague Hallmark-card speeches, but I never thought he would be this much in bed with the military-industrial complex.

to those major issues, the ones that are killing our country.

That's RW'er bullshit. Link please?

In no way exhaustive, just a few quick counterpoints.

1. Don't soldiers get combat pay? If they are not in a war, therefore, not in combat, we don't have the costs of combat pay.

2. If soldiers are home, they are not being shot at and can participate in their local economies and be able to share time with their families. How much does it cost soldier's families for them to be fighting?

3. Soldiers who would have been maimed or killed if the war continued, I suppose that is not a cost to you.

4. Innocent or other people killed by US attacks and continued destabilizing influences of being an occupying force, those people that are killed or maimed, not a cost to you.

5. More than 5 million refugees and the second worst humanitarian crisis continues, not a cost to you.

6. Borrowing money from China and our other owners to finance the war profiteers interests, not a cost to you.

7. More soldiers psychologically damaged by continuing wars, not costly to you.

8. Costs to the consciences of Americans for being in illegal wars and occupations, not a cost to you.

Those are just off the top of my head and it is ridiculous to say that it costs just as much to end a war. RIDICULOUS. Utter Republican nonsense.

WAR IS GOOD, PEACE IS UNNATURAL, right, finally something the conservaDems can cross the aisle for.

going for years. But, getting out is still very expensive, and not just jumping on choppers and running out like we did in Viet Nam.

Dismantling the bases we've set up and sending back equipment amassed over the years.

Evacuting a quarter million or so military and civilians with their belongings

Final reparations for whatever death and destruction we've caused

And more.

The point is that although for years I've been hearing about "getting out" from the pacifist organizations I belong to, the reality is not nearly as simple as they like to make it.

and of course, we knew what happened then.

The boots stayed in the closet (not on the ground) and the GOTV stayed home. If the cuurent trend continues in the Senate and in the administration- I expect to see the exact same dynami. Whether the Republicans can capitalize on it in their sorry state, who can say?

but then again, with friends like about 1/3 of the Senate- and an administration that seems more interested in going along to get along than going to go to the mat, who needs Republicans?

people are already speaking of staying home.

because they hurt the party as a whole- even the non-DINO's and and state and local Democrats.

Basically, a cancer in the locker room situation. Better sometimes to trade them away- even if one gets little or nothing in return- and the "other team" stands to make a tempoary gain.

those who really want change will come around.

there's a good chance that 3/4 of the people will not agree with you. An even better chance that half won't.

So, what do you do with all those, regardless of party, who think your solution to a particular problem is idiotic and you are a low-grade moron for even thinking of it? Do you rage against a Republican Congressional asshole halfway across the country whom you have no chance of making listen to reason, or rail against DINOs, also in faraway states, who are just too stupid to see the brilliance of your reasoning? Or do you attack the ignorant voters who elected these simpletons?

What to do? What to do?

One thing we can't do is work with them and come up with some sort of compromise. Nope, compromise is always bad-- we have to have our way all the time, every time.

Because we're the good guys, and we know best.

have my pony yet, so they all must suck.

Postponing the terrible collapse. We have been here before as have European countries. They tried fascism, FDR had some solutions that lasted until Reagan killed them. Pres Obama needs to get rid of the bastards that destroyed our economy.

The Freepers were solidly behind Bush for about 6 of 8 years, getting behind everything the pretzeldent did.

but the overall system is set up to keep those who have power IN POWER.

Until the entire system crashes we will most likely have Republican and Republican light. That said, I do think that Obama is much better than Bush.

even after many years of thinking both parties were essentially the same, I was influenced by obama's charisma. i had a glimmer of hope that we had something different, maybe not socialist nirvana, but a step in the right direction. then came the powell endorsement which turned into a mutual obama/powell endorsement. at THAT point i knew the jig was up.

obama is all charisma and no cattle.

p.s.: #1 issue for me--prosecution of bush, inc.. obama=fail on that.

What I hate most is that it's this or nothing. Where does the Left have to go - if this doesn't work? A splinter party that'll get us one or two percent, and splinter the Dems just enough so that the bad guys get close enough to steal another one.

I still support Obama. I'm thoroughly satisfied that it's him in the Oval Office as opposed to the alternative last November. And relieved. But I'm one of those whose disappointment is also growing: in the reversals and backpeddling and the wuss-ass fight the Dems in general are putting up. Of course, there, the Dems are no disappointment whatsoever. They're doing what we have always been able to count on them to do: be spineless.

The choice of D or R is not much of a choice. It is becoming ever more apparent that there is no real choice at the ballot box.

Yet we have no choice otherwise either, we must oppose the immiseration of working people here and abroad, war for profit, ecocide. We're just gonna have to do it by means other than the electoral system, which is fatally compromised.

The lesser of two evils is usually the same evil just the same.

The problem.. is that lobbyists for banks and weapons manufacturers swarm over capital hill like cock roaches. Our CONgress is bought and paid for ...no matter what the party.

I'm lucky in that my rep (Keith Ellison) is usually one of the good guys, but those of you who are represented by DLCers should get together and think seriously about finding primary challengers for your out-of-touch, Beltway-influenced pols.

At this point there may very well be a more sinister reason established politicians are unable to deal with the criminality of incompetently reviewed, corporate-supplied, unaccountable election machines.

It's called the Democratic primary. You had full notice that you were voting for someone against Single Payer in the GE, after the primary. There was one candidate who was for single payer, and he did not win or come close. The rest made abundantly clear that they were not for it.

pretty clear that most people in the U.S. aren't as engaged as we are. Until our voices are louder than the opposing voices, we will get more of the same.
In order to win a "majority" in Congress, we had to put up some very conservative folks because in many areas of the country that's the only kind that win.
Sadly, that means that they will vote that way to stay in office.
I'm heartened that poll after poll shows that people are moving at least back to the center, if not to the left. Maybe we will reach critical mass in the next few years and actually be able to make some real changes. But I'm not holding my breath.
It's a broken system, for sure, but it's all we've got. At least Obama isn't a complete moron. That's an improvement.

whenever you hear those words, grab your wallet..

Word we should hear are :

restore
balance
fairness
regulate

but those words are only used in passing....and usually only at election time..:(

As for things like economics, war, health care, protecting consumers, basically anything for We the People, there is little difference between the dems & repubs. I'm curious if science, Lily Ledbetter & the global gag order will be enough incentive for me to vote again. I'm sick of the dems taking my vote for granted, but the truth is, if the repubs put up someone as frightening as Palin on the ticket, that will get me to the polls. And most of their party is as frightening as Palin.

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

OBAMA
Health Care costs lowered
Education expense lowered
More Tax from rich
Environment changes

Jobs a biggie over which he has little control

Past 8 years put us into a DEEP hole.

We shall never be the same America

Standard of Living will not get back

Middle Class Income will improve but never like 1946 to 1981.

Total Money Supply was increased dramatically 2001-2006 but Velocity has decreased. Fewer have more of it.

1920s were Wall Street Rumble so was 2001-2008

Gamblers got the best of us.

Now they control us.

1% have 33.4% of Total wealth

10% have 71% of Total wealth.

It will be a battle to get 10% own 50%.

ONE GROUP OF 2% Of Our 300 MILLION

2% own most movie Studios
2% own most TV News
2% own most press
2% were over 50% on Forbes richest 400
2% were over 50% on Most Influentials

cswinney2@triad.rr.com

"Standard of Living will not get back

Middle Class Income will improve but never like 1946 to 1981."


Of course it will get back - the harder they push, the more they take, the worse the transition will be for the 2%.

Just look at what happened during the French revolution.

Somehow, we will return to the 94% tax on the 2%.

he listed off a handful of accomplishments/moves in the right direction and reminded me that obama was always a moderate.

yes, well...no reason we can't expect/demand better. no reason not to watchdog this administration.

vs the rest of us.

Some form of that Illuminati/Bilderberger shit that has likely been going on for thousands of years, I think.

We fight each other like bugs shaken up in jars, to the benefit of the Global Aristocratic Elite. Ironically, I strongly suspect the Global Aristicratic Elite are ethnically and ideologically diverse.

Why shouldn't they be, they've got almost seven billion human cattle, which is how they view us, I believe, to keep in the pen.

Is Obama in on it? Is he not in on it? Does it matter? Tim Geithner, Kissinger and Zbig Brezinski, along with the Clintons and Bushes, are most likely "in on it".

It makes me laugh, because there's little else to do. Turns out the movie "They Live" was pretty close to the truth, whether it's space aliens or just our own homegrown Elite Psychopaths who are making sure we "Obey" and "Marry and Reproduce".

The Bilderbergers are meeting today in Greece. Tim Geithner's schedule is mytseriously blank for today. I know it sounds crazy, but time and time again since things got obvious in 2001, our faces are shoved in the shit that the 99% of humaity is ruled, as it always has been, by the 0.01% Global Aristocratic Elite and managed for their benefit and theirs alone.

We are kept fighting like bugs in jars, using the time-honored method of fundamentalist religion to motivate the weak-minded.

The Global Aristocratic Elite have NEVER believed in religion. We read about the cynical Elite 30 families of Rome, who didn't believe in their human cattle's religion either, and think things are different.

No different. The only differences are

1) Energy Available (as Peak Oil kicks in we shall slide back the way we came, and slavery will amke a comeback when oil is no longer available to drive the sedan-chairs of the Elite)

2) Technology, though in many ways increased techology has been matched or exceeded by advances in Perception Control, Psychology, Marketing, and Public Relations.

3) The various stop-gap maneuvers required by the Global Aristocratic Elite have taken over the centuries to keep camoflauged, which will also be rolled back one by one as they become once again unnecessary due to declining energy available and technological level.

Something like that. I expect I have some of the details wrong, though I strongly suspect the overall idea is correct.

I know it sounds crazy. I would have thought it crazy myself a few years ago.

But the Global Aristocratic Elite have tipped their hands so much and so obviously, since the unexpected Global Ecological and Climatological Collapse seems to have surprised them and shortened their timescale to get done whatever they have planned for us or are planning to manage their cattle as they sun themselves in Greece.

God, I hope I am crazy, but at every step of the way, The Invisible Hand of the Global Aristocratic Elite seems to become more visible.

Who the fuck do these pricks think they are anyway?

The appropriate penalty for treason should be applied to them, and the weasels that kiss their asses.

And no, I'm not kidding. They have declared war on us. When do we fight back?

everyone else plays checkers. My bad for forgetting the DUer's name:

In chess the goal is to protect the royalty, pawns are sacrified all the time.

because that's pretty much how I see it as well. :-(

We've been battered black and blue. I thought it was the right doing the slugging but seems it's coming from both sides. There's a reason they all go apeshit when we say Class Warfare.

Good to see you. It has been too long.

Great post, thanks.

Being corporate tools destroyed the Republican party. Democrats will suffer the same fate if they don't change their act soon.

I have been wondering the same things.

:applause:

instead of the GOP, I think we can look back at any number of votes over the last 8 years and understand that there have always been enough dems that vote with the republicans toward concentration of wealth and power into the hands of fewer and fewer people. There's simply no theory that better fits mystifying and frustrating dem behavior. Many dem leaders grew up in the same circles and the gop leaders...amongst ceo's, bankers, old money, new money, etc. That's where they come from, that's the world they know. They believe that America's power and strength comes from corporate strength and that imperialsim and greed are just about all you need to keep america strong.

I don't believe that we can blame just a few blue dog dems. I believe it is MOST dem leaders and certainly the leadership that choreographs which dems will bolt from the traditionally progressive stance in order to kill the vote or pass it. They take turns going against progressive thinking so spread responsibility around...but in any case, votes end up going to the right, protecting or "conserving" the status quo. Why would government leaders, mostly millionaires, throw monkey wrenches into the system? They don't want to...America is top dog, they are top dogs in America..what's so wrong?

it's disgusting

I agree that public financing of elections is the only way to remove the money from the system and allow elected representatives to vote their beliefs, that being said it would also open the door for the grass roots to win some local elections and fight for sensible change....the mantra is that it is govt OF the PEOPLE BY the PEOPLE and FOR the PEOPLE so it should serve THE PEOPLE...

I'm going to DEMAND that anyone who seeks my vote for office MUST be for public financing...start the drumbeat on it now for 2010 and 2012....let Obama know a 2nd term is not his right and he better start listening to what we want or he will be a one term example of what happens when people demand REAL CHANGE

An improvement over the fascists that we've been living with, but not exactly a liberal.

We need a healthy left-wing party that can offset this pull to the right that the Dems think they need to pacify to stay in office.

Definitely an improvement over the Fascists, perhaps he'll be able to slow down our race toward extinction, a bit.

Hearing stories about congress staff's dissing callers just proves they do not care. We are divided and conquered, just the way they want us. Many things need to change, not just the name on the door. The 2 parties, actually siblings in the same washington family, have acquiesed to the fascist powers.

We need to elect REAL Democrats into office if we want change. Corporate whores, are corporate whores, whether Dem, or Rep.

I am totally disgusted with what's happened since the election. The Dems are worse that the GOP -- at least with the GOP you know what you get up front. The Dems talk a good game about being for the middle class and working people, blah blah blah, but when the rubber hits the road who do they align with?

I sick of all of them. Not one more dime do I give ANY politician or political party.

As Shakespeare said, "A plague on both your houses"

That's all I expected from Obama and the Democratic congress, and they've delivered. Ok - they've done a little better than that, but I didn't expect more than this.

Sad but true.

and a handful of Representatives.

The rest are our enemies.

This latest announcement of bailout funds going to Alstate, Farmers, et el and telling us its to protect "Life Insurance" is the most disturbing. Mainly it is because the only people that realize that they are going to be needing life insurance, are the ones bailing out the Insurance companies.

In reality, the Insurance companies as a whole have been part and parcel of the massive fraud that is called the America economy.

Think about it for a moment. Insurance companies have been driven by profit for many years. When you make a claim, they will delay it as long as possible, until they get a fresh supply of payments in to cover what little they see fit to pay out. It's a Ponzi scheme, but it works on the monthly cash flows by the enslaved customers, dutifully paying their premiums every month, in total ignorance that the Insurance company is leveraged out the wazoo in every business in can get it's fingers into.

Equity? Hah, they count future revenue as Equity, just like Enron.

I used to think that Enron was the poster child of the Fraud in Corporate America, but I now see that Enron was modeled on the example made by the American Government and the Federal Reserve.

The Government and PTB are scared shitless right now, and they seem to be goading a fed up Citizenry to make their move.

Everyone might want to store 20 or so gallons of water in case of disruption in the water supply, just in case you need to wait out a disruption from municipal sources, or help neighbor in need cope with such an event.

The US Government is acting like a Multinational Corporation at the moment, and we must be on guard for any unconventional Warfare technique they may attempt to use on us to force another Shit Sandwich down our throats.

I've had my fill, and I'm prepared to wait however long it takes to change the menu.

"This latest announcement of bailout funds going to Alstate, Farmers, et el and telling us its to protect "Life Insurance"

I have been out for a few days due to a forest fire burning through my property(right up to our house!)...what did I miss?!! Do you have a link for this? Thank you!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3878010

Treasury Agrees To Aid Insurers
Six Firms Gain Access to Funds

By David S. Hilzenrath and David Cho
Washington Post Staff Writers
Friday, May 15, 2009

The Treasury yesterday granted preliminary approval for some of the nation's largest insurance companies to receive capital infusions under the government's Troubled Assets Relief Program, Treasury spokesman Andrew Williams said.

Recipients are Hartford, Prudential, Allstate, Ameriprise, Lincoln National and Principal Financial Group, he said. The insurers notified yesterday are among hundreds of financial institutions in the pipeline "that are being reviewed and funded as appropriate on a rolling basis," Williams said.

The money could shore up the life insurance industry, which plays a major role in the economy and has been weakened by the financial crisis. In addition to paying death benefits, life insurers deliver retirement income in the form of annuities. They are big investors in corporate bonds and commercial real estate.

However, the erosion of their investments -- and the possibility of further declines in the value of stocks, bonds and mortgages -- raised concern in some quarters about the outlook for the industry.

Follow link above for original post.

Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...

:hi:

:wtf: when I get some energy back :grr: :grr:
(I'm afraid to ask what else I missed)

But I think it's more terrifying when you realize that the minute you leave you own property, you may likely be never allowed back in "For You Own Good".

I fought the 49er Fire in Nevada County in 89 and witnessed some horrific mismanagement, ill conceived backfire practires, and generally a crew of thousands of Firemen standing around watching as their Backfires flamed out of control, because they didn't bother to ask the locals of the prevailing wind patterns or thermal profiles of the countryside.

They knew it all, and then when they realised their mistakes, they ran like pussies. Out of the thousnads of firemen we encountered over those 4 days, the only crew worth a pinch of salt was from Winemucca Nevada, one of the few brigades that had a Four wheel drive fire truck, who actually knew how to douse a snag with little water.

The rest were Orange suited prison gangs that seemed to like to throw flares around.

The CDF is another organization that relies on emotional marketing and the Stockholm Syndrome in order to be perceived as skilled in their craft. So of the leaders are real numbskulls.

My advice, never leave your property if you are physically able to defend it. We saw many homes abandoned by CDF crews which were later destroyed when a creeping litter burn encroched and set the decks ablaze. A rake would have prevented that, but the owner had evacuated and was not allowed back in by the police, so it burned to the ground.


There were so many mistakes made on the 49er fire that I no longer have any respect for the leadership of the teams of fire fighters, so I do it myself.

And they forced us to leave, but my husband went back with a generator and talked them into letting him in after they made some phone calls and forced him to sign a waver saying they weren't responsible for him not listening. When he first saw the fire heading our way he left work to come help us but they wouldn't let him through the road block. He parked the car then ran up the hill and around them :rofl: then hitched a ride from some locals to come help us evacuate. When he came back he was able to protect our house but our shed and everything else within 10 ft burned. The firefighters are still here putting out hot spots, and they did dump a bucket of lake water on our house so I am feeling really grateful right now. But....they did seem to drop the ball after they thought the fire was out on tuesday...the wind picked up, the fires kicked up and we were watching four spots of crowning trees coming at us with no air support whatsoever. It was really freaking scary.

The fact is that you can to as good a job or better than the Firmen, mainly becuae you are acclimated to the property, know how it behaves, and can have a better oppertunity to choose what you need to protect and sacrifice the rest.

People that have not lived through it have no idea of what it's like, and tend to follow the orders given to them like good little sheep. The law is pretty clear, and that is as soon as you leave your property, they can keep you out, using deadly force if necessary. If you do not leave, they can't do a thing about it. That is why it is really important to be aware the without power to run a well, you are at the mercy of whatever supplies of water you have on hand.

The benefits of a gravity fed water system are gods gift when you don't have electricity for pumps.

In our area during the 49er fire, they used Bulldozers to scrape the topsoil and brush off parcels. The trouble it, they dumped all the debris on the only road leading out of the canyone for 10 property owners. When I became enraged and demanded they clear the road, due to the fact that people would be using it to escape, they said "Nobody is supposed to be down that road". I made it clear they were mistaken, and then climbed over the 10 fight high, 30 foot long pile of brush, poison ok and other debris to get back to my property. I'll never forget the firemen threatening me to stop, and that they would have me arrested for going down my road. I told them to come get me and contuned weaving my way through the debris pile.

Nobody followed, and eventually someone fire up a cat to clear the debris off the road.

30 minutes later, the backfires they set where reinforced with the afternoon thermals up canyon, and the fire flared up and burned right over about 40 units of fire equipment and men that were camped out right in its path.

The stupidity of the fire chiefs on that day was monumental.

Of course, those that did not see the many instances of this incompetence, rolled out the Yellow Ribbons, and "Thank you firefighters" posters like they were Gods, never knowing that their house being saved was mostly a luck of the draw, and neighbors that stayed behind and saved their homes for creeping ground fires after the main blaze skipped the house..

Be thankful they allowed him to sign a waiver. Some people have driven past roadblocks only to be shot at by overzealous policemen. If you can get at a fire when it is on the ground and creeping, you can nearly always put it out, but usually, the lines is miles long and it's hard to manage without a crew.

I have a very low opinion of Congress - red, blue, whatever. Most are heavily involved with lobbyists, overly concerned about their own pet projects rather than the interest of the nation, and hardly care about their constituents.

There are elections in 2010. There's nothing like a threat of losing reelection to shake someone up. A lot of Dems know that they rode on Obama's coat tails, and on a once in a lifetime level of involvement among voters. This is not going to happen again. So the races in many districts will be much tighter.

Get a petition in your district going. Send it to your congressperson/senator telling them that they can not rely on the signed petitioners to vote for them, or for get-out-the-vote/donations either, unless they change their opinions and voting records on progressive issues.

The Constitution begins with "We, the People." It's our responsibility to vote out those who fail us. Yes, it raises the possibility of bringing someone worse come instead. It's sort of like choosing between a dead-beat, abusive father and an evil stepfather. At least you have no expectations from the latter, so it emotionally hurts you less.

Note: yes, Obama also has many shortcomings, but I feel my effort in getting him elected was 100% worth it. Despite some disappointing stuff, I approve of his Presidency.

Notice that he has left it for last to shut the door on foreign bank tax shelters before he clamps down with regulation, receivership or worse, or they'll just take their money and bolt to Dubai. Bankers and corporate execs may do that anyway, but not before bankers will plainly show they have no more excuses.

love the snake analogy!!!

Obama is in the pocket of the wealthy and the corporations. He should be ashamed of himself....but shame is now a long-lost, quaint emotion.

At least let those who have been forced into early retirement have access to Medicare.

Our country is in decline....and the worst is yet to come.

I still think The People's best route is to attack the Corporations...go to the root of the problem. After all, our gov't just does what the Corporations tell them.

Okay. We know that now.

What do we do?

Do we continue this game of a two party system that refuses to execute the people's will?

Or, do we stand up and say 'ENOUGH'? We need true representation. The dems won't do it.

The Republicans are not an option.

The time has come for the people to take a stand.

n/t

Feel better?

most are responsive to their contituencies, which are talk radio-influenced more than the left knows (because they get headaches when they listen to it and they can't believe something so low tech could be so effective). the talk raido monopoly was put together to propagandize a country- we wouldn't be in this disaster if reagan hadn't killed the Fairness Doctrine 20 years ago.

red state politics is dominated by the GOP talk radio monopoly and those states have a disproportionate number of senators. whether they feel threatened, are merely pulled rightward, feel the effects through the way it it enables a corporate media (look how it has turned the torture issue into an indictment of pelosi), or use that vociferous and well coordinated constituency to enable corporate cooperation, those 1000 GOP radio stations with that coordinated uncontested repetition makes real representative democracy impossible. and few dems/progressives/liberals pay any attention to it.

We need to review voting records on individual congressmembers carefully and rate them for ourselves. Obama was rated as a liberal, and see what we got. 'Nough said.

I'm seriously thinking about boycotting any further elections. This captures my disgust. Thanks for posting this!

for a few thousand dollars, their desires will trump the public interest every time.

We need campaign finance reform, limits on contributions, public funding of campaigns, campaign spending limits, etc

Otherwise I might be feeling kind of angry and depressed at this point.

patterns as you would like it to be or as it should be when compared to how people feel about the issues.

This stems from 30+ years of a coordinated effort to make liberal look like a bad name and essential = the word "unamerican" in a lot of people's minds.

The tide is changing but it's going to take time.

Democrats are now worse than republicans. If a democrat had been in the white house the last 8 years and caused this much ruin, holy cow - look what they did to Clinton, it never ended. At least Republicans say waht they are going to do and do it, even if its dispicable, its clear where they stand. Democrats are lying SOBs, not even a bone tossed towards reform. It's easy to see why so many people hate democrats.

There would be rioting in the streets, but we are too fat and lazy so we let the rich steal our pensions and hope that they'll be satisfied with that and not take any more. The great thing about keeping the population in debt is that they are less likely to complain since people have everything to lose so they live in the background with fear. Add to this fact an ever expanding "Homeland Security" reading posts e-mails like this, makes it clear that we are expected to vote and get zero in return.

Amazing how quickly he turned his back on his voters knowing full well that they can't do anything about it. He is preparing for his next career as CEO in wall street investment firm.

We didn't have torture before Bush, changing that exec. order is much much different than saying he fights for human rights. Which he doesn't.

Torture everywhere, no indictments. He said they were just following orders and would not be prosecuted. THerefore he believes torture can be overlooked.

Three trillion handed over to Wall Street, no indictments and minimal oversight. There for he does not believe regulation is necessary and trusts his CEOs.

Wire tapping and spying on Americans, no indictments. He obviously believes government has a right to track what we say and do.

War based on lies, 100,000+ dead, no indictments. Death and brutality can be over looked in the interests of moving "forward".

Now Health Policy handed over to Wall Street. Can you predict the next government bail-out program in 5 years or so? I can, I bet you can too.

Now, if he appoints a an extreme centrist to the supreme court, corporations and republican pundits will cheer. And cheer they should because Obama is the perfect republican president.

Talk is cheap. Let's hope we don't lose it all over next elections because the next republican Govt. is going to be much scarier than any we've had so far. That is a clear trend.

Only a Trillion bucks with a Federal Reserve Coupon.

Other than that feeble attempt at reality Humor, I agree with you 100%. I am afraid that Obama is done.

but hard to dispute :cry:

that represents the people not the corporations.

for populists to turn out and vote for them.

a powerful reason: sensibility to the needs of the environment and the people of that world. So far with almost complete control, they have mimicked the Pugs at every turn. Not all, but too many. Obama is a big disappointment to me. I knew he was not a liberal from some of his votes, but I certainly did not expect him to back big business with our money and to not get strongly behind public health care reform and to refuse to investigate the evil doers. I now wonder how effective his energy/environment policy will be.

That should tell you a little something about his energy/environment policy. Good luck!

"'Clean Coal' is like "healthy cigarettes.'" -- Al Gore

No wonder Gore didn't want a spot in the Obama Administration

If we can get one third party to threaten to be the spoiler, but then use this ONE issue as a point of negotiation, that would be a milestone... Nader or someone that might spoil an election might be able to do it.

If we could have that in place, it would be that much harder for Korporate America to buy off all of the players.

close highways with hundreds if not thousands in the street.We have to hit the breaucrats over the head,only then will they get it.

Look , the Dems ran in 2006 and their main focus was getting out of Iraq yet they funded it every single time. We were told it was because of the troops and their support for them if I'm not mistaken.

What happened to all the hearings with Waxman the pit bull what happened to Walter Reed, it all just evaporated.

Now instead of getting out of Iraq we are going to ramp it up in un-winable Afghanistan.

it appears they still do not want to fight or rather not willing to fight.

1) Are they getting taken in on the "we are now less safe"?

2) Have they got bought out by the bankers? Why can't they pass legislation to stop what they are doing with the credit cards now instead of it going into effect next year. A lot of people need help now.

3) Why stimulus money to the banks instead of the auto industry and help for the workers instead of the CEOs?

I am at a loss right now and maybe there is a good reason but if there is let us know.

I naively thought that with a leadership elected by the people's donations rather than the usual corporate line up that the corporate (DLC) stranglehold on the party would be weakened.

If anything they have grown stronger even as the voices of the constituency are muffled outside the corporate bubble.

You write very well, I think it is time to buy another one of your ebooks.

And I'm talking about the physical load of chemical compounds that will need to be flushed out of your bloodstream, tissues, and wherever they have collected.

You will know when your flush cycle is getting near the end when you can't stand the smell of clothing that has cigarette smoke in it, or when you find that you can smell a cigarette on somebody from about 20 feet away.

Other sure fire signs that you are near the end is sneezing when you get near new or old cigarette smoke. This is normal, and once you get to that point, you will wonder how people could tolerate your presence when you were the one polluting the environment.

The body cleanses toxins out quite slowly, and most people don't give these mechanisms enough time to do their job.

I got this info. from e-cigarette forum. I am so disgusted. I have quit smoking after smoking for 35 years because of e-cigarettes two months ago. My coughs, sinus problems, etc. have gone away. I am feeling so much better. Nicotine crap like nicotine patches, nicotine pills, nicotine pills...did not work for me. It has 95% failure rate. E-cigarette is the best thing ever happened and now many smokers have switched over to e-cigarettes. But guess what? Our dear own democratic Senator is wanting to ban this stuff! Unbelievable! I don't know what to think about democratic politicans anymore. This deserves a post of its own, but this is an example of your post. Read below.


Proposed E-Cigarette Ban Pushed in the Name of America's Health Actually a Backdoor Boost to Pharmaceutical Companies

May 14 05:00 AM US/Eastern

Is the proposed legislative action in the best interests of the people or of politicians' and big pharmaceutical companies' bank accounts?

COLLEYVILLE, Texas, May 14 /PRNewswire/ -- Our leading health groups are marching a parade against newly marketed e-cigarettes. This parade is lead by the backdoor politician, Senator Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ). This seemingly health conscious senator, who has taken well over $100,000 from the pharmaceutical companies that market smoking cessation products, is trying to ban a product that offers none of the carcinogens of traditional tobacco cigarettes.

Electronic cigarettes vaporize a water-based solution that gives the user the sensation of smoking while emitting only a light water vapor. This eliminates the public concern of secondhand smoke as well as cutting out all the carcinogens associated with tobacco and the chemicals used in tobacco cigarette production.

Senator Lautenberg claims the FDA should run extensive testing on these products to "verify" their safety, but many are concerned that stance is contrary to the American principle of "innocent until proven guilty". Many doctors believe that halting this far less harmful smoking alternative would, ironically, save the pharmaceutical companies that market smoking cessation products billions of dollars a year.

A few people have spoken up for e-cigarettes, most notably Chair of the Tobacco Control Group for the American Association of Public Health Physicians, Dr. Joel L. Nitzkin, who has stated his vigorous opposition of Senator Lautenberg's proposals. He and many other reasonable individuals are convinced that it is harmful to public health to ban a product that is by default far less dangerous than its traditional counterpart and put what amounts to a government seal of approval on the more dangerous product. Not only that, but many complain that Senator Lautenberg is not a medical professional.

Who should our lawmakers and the FDA be listening to? Should we listen to a non-medically licensed politician whose motives align themselves with the big pharmaceutical companies he protects or should we listen to the health professionals that are all but screaming for us to actually pay attention to our country's real health issues?

When a government is in the pockets of private companies, we run dangerously close to abandoning our democratic process and a government that will sacrifice the health of its citizens is a government by the money, for the money. Let's tell our politicians that the people are the government and politicians can only ignore their constituents for so long before their game runs out.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Electronic Cigarettes that Could Save Hundreds of Thousands Likely to Be Banned Under Tobacco Bill, Says Expert

Electronic Cigarettes probably carry less than one percent of the risk of regular cigarettes and they could carry as little as one tenth of one percent of the risk of smoking. Yet despite their potential to save almost 400,000 lives a year the devices are likely to be banned by a tobacco bill being pushed through the Senate by Philip Morris.

This was the view of one expert we interviewed on the safety of the electronic cigarette, Dr Joel Nitzkin, Chair of the Tobacco Control Task Force for the American Association of Public Health Physicians and a prominent tobacco harm reduction spokesman.

Dr Nitzkin did agree there was a need for improved quality control of the devices, which are manufactured in China.

However, he also stated that even in the worst case scenario of the e-cigarettes carrying one percent of the risks of regular cigarettes the device has a huge potential to save lives.

Dr Nitzkin estimated that if every smoker in the US smoked electronic cigarettes the resulting death toll would be between 400 and 4000 a year.

The compares to the 400,000 estimated deaths caused by smoking regular cigarettes.

Despite this the electronic cigarettes faces an imminent ban from legislation currently in the Senate.

The legislation will require research into alternative tobacco products. However, "...the testing guidelines that are built into the current draft of the FDA Tobacco bill would represent a defacto ban on the e-cigarettes."

When we asked why a tobacco bill sponsored by America's largest tobacco company and which removed safe alternatives while endorsing regular cigarettes was likely to be passed, Dr Nitzkin explained that inaccurate and misleading information was being used to promote the bill:

"This piece of legislation has been sold to health organisations to endorse and to congressmen here in the United States to sponsor using a summary in the description of the bill which is extremely inaccurate and which does not reflect the actual impact the bill will have if passed."

But i damn well know what my dem values and principles are and they are not negotable, they are not for sale for a "win" , they are real solid values that nothing will change...because they are American values before party values..they were fought for through hundreds of years, they are written in an incredible document ..The Constitution.

I believe ..we the people , are the government..we are the employers of anyone who represents us..

I believe too many in congress have made their Job , a lifestyle and a career..that is not what their job was meant to be. They were meant to serve we the people, now they only serve their own interests.

That we do have the power to change..vote their asses out everywhere in this country and get new people in and make it a revolving door, and do it in your county and in your state ..take the power back..and make sure on your local level that the people have the same values and principles as you!

Too many people vote today on emotion instead of their own best interests and the best interests of our nation, and the values we learn as Americans. And it is damn time we all pay attention to what these people say , not what we wish they are saying!

What i am seeing right now , is not a surprise to me ,not one bit.. because i paid attention to what was really being said , not what i " wished " or had hope Obama or any of these senators or congress people were going to do.

There is such a thing as false hope..i guess i live in too much reality for that.

my response is, the United States Government as well needs to take the responsibility for the money it borrowed from the surplus funds (for decades) and pay that money back. No bail out requested; just pay the money back you borrowed, Uncle Sam.

(Yes, I know Obama campaigned on raising the cap -- I support that alternative and I am not being critical of Obama.) I just like asking Uncle Sam to take responsibility for paying back its debts just as citizens are being asked to do.

Sam

I'm not sure that either of the two major political parties here actually takes a stand at all. Mostly, I see them posturing, grandstanding, obfuscating and rationalizing. Oh, and accepting large donations from parties which most definitely do not have our best interests in mind.

Thanks for the thread.:thumbsup:

That question is yer answer.

:evilfrown:

YES WE CAN

Maybe we will.