Is it just me?

Or are all these people screaming about how these pictures are so horrible that they would inflame the entire Muslim world and put our troops in danger, giving us a reason to hold investigations? If these pictures are so horrific, so terrible and inhuman, that they can't even show them in public then why the fuck aren't people on trial right now? The issue here shouldn't be whether or not to release the pictures but whether or not we can trust the people who have seen them to do what is right. Obviously we can't and in spite of the cries of danger it would be more dangerous to the nation to let these crimes go unpunished.

:kick:

HE will be associated with them and the story will be how he has endangered the troops.

It's like a huge number of DU'ers are totally ignorant of how the Media operates.

How anyone could really be so totally naive and believe the Media would center the story around Cheney is beyond me.

What universe to you people live in?

And yet, the same DU'ers do occasionally rail against the Media. Apparently the Media is only in the pockets of the NeoCons when it suits your agenda for the day.

US law, international law and human life. What universe do you live in?

Do you not realize that there are still prisoners at risk at this moment? That there are dozens of ghost detainees still missing? How can you be so totally naive about the stakes here?

this is about Obama, not about the rule of law, not about torture to the point of homicide, not about our ideals as Americans. It's all about how Obama looks and how it politically benefits him. Naive indeed.

what I am saying is that if the pictures are that bad they don't need to be released. That we should be able to trust our elected officials to do what is right because they have seen the pictures. If we can't trust them, and they don't start investigations then the pictures need to be released.

Frankly your willingness to let these people walk away from this makes me wonder what universe you live in. In my little universe torture is wrong and anyone who does it or orders it needs to be in prison. I know exactly how the media works. It works on money. And the money is going to be in covering the trial of the century.

And to get justice, the American people need to see what's been going on in their name.

Amazing. I thought he was just a senator from IL in 2005. Maybe my calendar is malfunctioning.

Why the hell are there no prosecutions?

:mad:

I mean it would inflame you if you found out. It would put my people in harms way, because you might hurt somebody. But hey, I'm not going to tell you about it so we're friends right?

:sarcasm:

Isn't what we are doing here with the torture photos just like the above statements? I fail to see how I would be less pissed off as a muslim from hearing that "I can't handle the photos" rather than just seeing them.

the wheels of justice turn slowly. I've served on a couple of juries and been in jury pools for trials on events that had happened years before.

I want to have some faith in our justice system so I am willing to let this play out a whole longer before I start screaming. I can only hope that there are still a few good people in our justice dept who will do the right thing.

Spring cleaning has begun!

needs to happen. If the pictures would cause enough outcry to force investigations, then we must have them released.

"If these pictures are so horrific, so terrible and inhuman, that they can't even show them in public then why the fuck aren't people on trial right now?"

I don't want to see these horrible pictures, and don't think anyone else should except for the jurors who will put the bastards in prison for their crimes.


K & R:kick:

needed to make that happen, so be it. But maybe we can build public sentiment without releasing all of them. Building sentiment for investigations is good. Using the pictures to convict is also certainly good and understandable. Releasing ALL of them . . . going beyond an understanding for the need from prosecution of these criminals to the point of making the entire world (or much of it) hate all American citizens, no questions asked, regardless of their level of participation and/or agreement with what happened is seriously not good. That could happen. Enough innocent people have died for the crimes of the BFEE. If you were involved you should pay the price but if you would never have condoned it, then you shouldn't be lumped in with that crowd's behavior and it could easily happen if less-stable countries and individuals get inflamed enough by those pictures. Simple as that. We aren't denying what was done, we want prosecution, we want to build a case for it but we don't want to put more people in harm's way for things that should never have happened and that most would never have gone along with had they known.

I think you're on the wrong planet or something. Best question I've read all week. So logical. With the MSM giving the Republicans so much airtime lately, logic has become scarce.

about releasing pictures, "American soldiers, American civilians, and other innocent people are going to die because Pres. Barack Obama wants to release photographs of prisoner abuse."

That's a direct quote from Andrew McCarthy at the National Review Online.
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YzkxYTE3ODI4YjAyOWY2YTUyMmJkOTAxZGZlOWZmMjg=

have all happened already..and some served/serving time

Now , who decided which "perps" were court-martialed or prosecuted...and who SHOULD have been , thats a different Q.

Thats the way I heard it reported , I'll see if I can find a link

P.

word was that people were getting physically ill when they saw them. And throwing Lynndie Englund in jail is not exactly prosecuting those who are guilty. Plus with the new relevations that Cheney was ordering torture to find a link between Iraq and Al-Quaeda there is more than enough here to seek true justice.

And a hearty k/r for your post.

We need the truth to come out - either release the pictures or have a trial! (Cause my guess is if the pics get released, the public will demand a trial/hearings). K&R.

not the photos themselves but that is a good point.

Out of sight, out of mind... USA, USA, USA

Incidentally that keeps the peeps quiet and all is well for profits

if the media doesn't cover it. I think they are playing to Wall Street who apparently owns the joint now even though we paid for it. The pretense is that they care about what we think because of the noise we may make but it's just a pretense.

we are pacified

And I'd hazard to say your neighbors are just as ignorant as mine

USA, USA, USA.

Now if they were not, and we went on lets pretend a national strike that lasted oh three days, with fifty percent participation... they'd not ignore that

So hiding the photos is to keep people going

USA, USA, USA

It is just part of it... small, large, does not matter, the ultimate goal is to keep people going

USA, USA, USA... and mostly thinking about me not we.

We watched people downing for days and still, there was nothing. Nada. No pots and pans, no outpouring of rage. Nadita.

But you're right about my neighbors. They are working people or retired people in a blue collar neighborhood and they are today concerned with eating.

Conncidence? NO

Here you go


http://www.lutins.org/labor.html

Notice the date for the last labor action... 1989

Coincidence? Nope

has turned the american psyche against the ONLY effective form of redress against the government.

the ONE thing our owners fear the most is that we might collectively understand how raw we are getting fucked and work together as a violent mob to effect change.

this has been the ONE thing elites have feared probably since the cavemen.

I was recently in the hospital and was watching the tv (Rachel, if I recall), they were discussing torture and the CIA memos and such. The nurse in the room taking care of me said "Ew, why are they talking about torture?!?" I thought, "Where the hell has this woman been?"I know a lot of people say "they are just worried about feeding their families" but isn't knowledge and truth important too? I don't have kids so I guess it is easy for me to say that working and taking care of a family shouldn't be an easy excuse for wearing rose colored glasses or blinders for that matter.

i wonder how much more incensed the muslim world could get. it's bad enough the revenge cycle against us will endure for the next 100 generations of muslim men.

Hope all is well man, we missed you around here... :toast: :party: :bounce:

When you aren't allowed to see the crime scene because it'll make you want to go after the criminals, shouldn't the criminals be arrested?

prosecutions of these criminals?

once they were repurposed after the war.

propagandists from the nazi era in germany ended up in very prominent positions in advertising and academia after the war.

they've been working on us since the late 40s.

we are effectively narcotized as a population. narcotized and trained. that's the only reason the average american worker (who probably is in foreclosure, debt, and has low wages) looks at protesters as leftist fringe lunatics.

the marketing and propaganda infrastructure in this country went into overdrive after the vietnam war to ensure war protests and civil rights marches would never happen again.

they "cured" us of the 60s.

The rationale for not disclosing is weak and disappointing.

:kick:

That's the spin. A-Old news B-A few bad apples who C-Have been prosecuted or are being prosecuted D-Put the troops at risk. Why do you hate America?
Rinse. Spin. Repeat.:puke:

:kick:

:applause: So let the Courts do their job!

the argument for not releasing the pictures is invalid on its face.

find and punish everyone who authorized torture of detainees. Everyone else in the world already knows that the U.S. tortures detainees. It's certainly no secret to anyone in the Middle East.

If I were Intelligence Czarina, I would abolish official secrets except in times of declared war. It's a good bet that the majority of "secret" material is not something that will endanger the security of the American people but will endanger the reputation of the perpetrators.

In peacetime, governments should not be doing anything that they have to keep secret from their people.

Does America really want to restore it's standing in the world? The world is watching & taking note.

Thank you for such a succinct summation!

k&r

great post

so those responsible could be prosecuted.

No endangering the troops, and the criminals
are brought to justice.

It makes us look like cowardly little jerks. It's not the photos we can't handle, apparently...it's the truth. Boy, do we need more than a few good men.