It's fucking bullshit entrapment and it will be used to continue Bush/Cheney policies mark my words

Four men arrested in suspected NY (synagogue, plane) bombing plot

<http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE54K0K620090521>

I will eat my hat if I'm wrong.

Anyone know?

except, it wasn't.

purchased what they thought were explosives and planted them thinking that they would blow up a synagogue -- then making an entrapment case to a jury will be a hard sell

As I understand it, the essence of an entrapment defense is that the authorities have seduced the accused into a crime the accused otherwise did not contemplate. On that standard, I'll still hold the opinion that the Liberty City clowns were entrapped, since they seem to have been a gaggle of apolitical borderline incompetents, to whom the FBI promised money and shoes in return for promises of allegience to an illegal organization: it's easy to imagine their real interest was the promised goodies. On the other hand, an entrapment case here (if the alleged facts are correct) requires one to believe the authorities somehow seduced the accused into taking material steps suggesting a depraved indifference to innocent life -- which one might expect to be a more difficult seduction

It's hard to get WMD if the FBI isn't supplying 'em.

one take material steps towards a crime, but in the fact that one was not even seriously contemplating the crime before the authorities worked their evil magic

Was intent there? Sure but a conspiracy charge is the best I would think you could hope for in this case.

off-the-cuff comment on what the prosecution options are

The BBC-radio is running a report with an American reporter who says the FBI informant "sold, er, provided them with" the fake bombs. So what if they didn't pick the targets? What if they didn't drive the cars? What if they weren't even there? They'll still get convicted no doubt, but at this point all we know is what the FBI and its cop pals are telling us.

The questions of fact you raise are all legitimate in my view, and I have no basis for any opinion about what actually happened, nor have I expressed such an opinion

And, of course, after eight years of Bushista, we should expect continuing residual Bushit

If they want a conviction, they'll get one, unless an extraordinarily talented attorney volunteers to represent these guys, and even then it probably wouldn't make much difference.

We all contemplate a crime now and then.

fwiw, i worked undercover for several years as a police officer, so i am VERY familiar with the law of entrapment.

none of my cases were ever thrown out for entrpment.

essentially, entrapment is enticing a person into a crime that they otherwise not disposed. there are both an objective and subjective test.

let me give you some examples.

leaving a brand new unlocked 30,000 car parked on the street with the keys in the ignition. not entrapment

asking a person "hey man, you got some coke?"

not entrapment

answering that you are not a law enforcement officer when questioned and working undercover. not entrapment

examples of entrapment would be, for example, offering somebody $1,000 for a gram of coke, when the going rate is $80.

or making sexual advances towards a person before soliciting them for drugs.

direct link to pdf: http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/BombPlot.pdf

The article says they bought explosives and a missile, but I don't think my blurry eyed reading of the complaint confirms that. The "cooperating witness" working for the Feds "provided" them to the guys (samples on spec). They were supplied to the CW by the Feds of course. The CW had previously cut a "cooperation agreement" with the Feds after getting snagged in a criminal fraud case for which he/she served 5 yrs probation. Cooperating witness who just happened upon guys planning mayhem and played them or agent provocateur who led them into planning attacks and obtaining weapons?

General rule of thumb: If someone tells you he can get you a sweet deal on some C-4 and missiles, just say no.

We'll see how this case goes.

when a Federal agent bought clothes and shoes for the terrorists.

lied to them about the weapons they sold them?

From the article...


**The defendants wanted to engage in terrorist attacks. They selected targets and sought the weapons necessary to carry out their plans," Lev Dassin, acting U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York, said in the statement.**

And

**While the bombs these terrorists attempted to plant tonight were -- unbeknownst to them -- fake...**

Doesn't look like entrapment to me. Looks like these four men intended to carry out and an attack and would have done so if the materials they had been provided hadn't been rendered harmless.

to see if they have more information, don't you agree?

As I said in another thread, give me enough money, resources and psyops training and I'll bet I could find a group of morons to go eat their own shit in Times Square just so we can cite them with a public health violation. I'm anxiously awaiting the facts in this case but I predict we won't be hearing any unedited testimony from the perps in this one.

but words are low calorie, so u should be ok

without ALL the evidence.

i said without evidence.

iow, you have NO evidence that it was as you say it is.

predictions are made with various amounts of evidence.

yours was made with none. or do you have some.

the red sox will win the pennant. that's a prediction made with SOME evidence, but certainly not ALL

nobody ever knows ALL the evidence. that's an impossibility.

if i make the same prediction in august, with the red sox up 15 games and more history this season, that would be a prediction with more evidence.

so what evidence do you have?

So there is a chance, however remote, that they also concieved the plan and actively recruited members for it. That would cross the line of entrapment IMO and that's what I based my prediction on.

that's bald conjecture.

feel free to look up what evidence is.

there is a chance , however remote, that the FBI agents in this case are expert tenors and might join the opera next year.

however, saying that might be true is a prediction without EVIDENCE.

just because something is possibly true, does not mean predicting it to be true is made with evidence.

there is no evidence of the flying spaghetti monster. but if i predict he will bomb tulsa ok tomorrow, that's a prediction w/o evidence.

even though i may be right.

"But the explosives were inert and the stinger deactivated as the four suspects had been infiltrated by an FBI informant who provided the fake weapons."

This is the evidence I was talking about and the only evidence I've cited. As far as whether or not the FBI was instrumental in hatching the plot or not is complete conjecture, and it will ultimately come down to their word against the suspects. If anyone even bothers to ask them that is.

it's also a very common technique in reverse stings.

Didn't think I'd need it after the primes.

refusing to acknowledge it, then putting me in yer ignore list is how you roll, then knock yourself out.

you made a prediction w/o evidence, i simply pointed that out, and you started redefining evidence to suit your needs.

whatEver

"Preventative Detention"

i'm not "after you".

i'm just speaking truth to power and protecting the FBI against your baseless prediction.

:)

But I applaud your efforts. Maybe you should try writing a Congress person next time. The only policy I can change is my meals for the day.

the ghost of j edgar hoover just peed his dress

Not buying it.

In a highly unusual coincidence, former Vice President Dick Cheney, one of the president's most vocal Republican critics, is scheduled to speak the same hour as Obama. Cheney, who has argued in TV interviews that Obama's policies have made the nation less safe, is expected to continue his assault on Obama in a speech on national security at a conservative Washington think tank. Cheney and other conservative Republicans have assailed Obama's plan to close Guantanamo, and Mueller seemed to echo some of their worries yesterday.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x315140


Fear Mongering
....
MR. MUELLER:My concern is that we're several years away from September 11th, and
inevitably there is a complacency that begins to take hold when there is
nothing immediately happening.

Remember he's only been in office four months.

your stupid hat. I just saw it on the local news and Bloomberg and Kelly couldn't have made a statement further from what you're proposing.

It's been a year in the making and it was a classic case of a lot of agencies helping..guess what? No torture involved.

Of course it still comes down to whether or not we're being told the truth at all anymore and I have my dounbts about that.

He can simply order that the charges be dropped, or issue a pardon. This is really nothing to get worried about.