IF the private profit in healthcare were reinvested in services provided by single payer....

... there would be a lot fewer bonuses, stock options, multi-million dollar CEO packages, and more families would be able to get the healthcare they need.

I don't see a problem with this....

Where is it written that private enterprise has a "right" to make money off the pain and suffering of others?

corporate worshippers who are getting their MBAs and those getting their corporate law degrees.

What are you one of those pansy socialist who want to destroy America. Don't you know how hard those CEO's work? They earned their place in our society and how dare you question it. Next thing you know your going to say that the french have a few good ideas.

:sarcasm:

But you'll hear from some here that the jobs in the insurance industry must be protected. :eyes:

I just went to the Kaiser Permanente site and looked at what JOBS they have available.
Nearly ALL of them were administrative office work and director of such and such.
Healthcare actual workers, nurses, doctors? Pffft. Not there.
Here's a sample: and they have about 8 pages of this stuff!!! ( kp.org/jobs )


CS.0900050 Account Administration Representative Full-Time CA, San Diego National Services
CS.0900051 Account Administration Representative Full-Time CA, San Diego National Services
DE.0900186 Accountant Full-Time CO, Denver Consolidated Service Center
LA.0900767 Associate Financial Analyst Part-Time CA, Los Angeles KFH / P Finance
AU.0900061 Coding Educator Full-Time CO, Aurora Coding Education
AU.0900107 Coding Training Coordinator Full-Time CO, Aurora Coding
RE.0900134 Director of Revenue Cycle Full-Time CA, Modesto NCAL Revenue Cycle Access Management
RE.0900332 Director of Revenue Cycle Full-Time CA, San Leandro NCAL Revenue Cycle Access Management
RE.0900140 Director of Revenue Cycle Full-Time CA, Santa Rosa NCAL Revenue Cycle Access Management
SA.0900291 Facility Referral Coordinator Part-Time CA, Sacramento Referral Invoice Service Center
RE.0900350 Financial Analyst Full-Time CA, Oakland TPMG Accounting & Financial Reporting
RE.0900351 Financial Analyst Full-Time CA, Oakland TPMG AOMS
PC.0900327 Financial Analyst Full-Time CA, Lancaster Medical Office Admin Svc
VL.0900166 Financial Analyst/Senior Financial Analyst Full-Time CA, Vallejo Business, Strategy & Finance
PC.0900238 Financial Project Manager Full-Time CA, Panorama City Finance
MD.0900881 Group Representative II Full-Time MD, Rockville Membership Administration
WK.0900126 Lead Senior Financial Analyst Full-Time CA, Walnut Creek Business Strategy & Finance, Diablo area
RE.0900204 Manager of Patient Financial Services Full-Time CA, San Rafael NCAL Revenue Cycle Access Management
RE.0900566 Manager of Patient Financial Services Full-Time CA, Richmond NCAL Revenue Cycle Access Management
RE.0900206 Manager of Patient Financial Services Full-Time CA, Fremont NCAL Revenue Cycle Access Management
RE.0802453 Regional Director of Coding Full-Time CA, Oakland NCAL Revenue Cycle HIM
RE.0802454 Regional Director of Professional Fee Coding Full-Time CA, Oakland NCAL Revenue Cycle HIM
DE.0900187 Senior Accountant Full-Time CO, Denver Consolidated Service Center
MD.0900885 Sourcing Specialist Full-Time MD, Beltsville Sourcing
MD.0900841 Sr Business Planning Analyst Full-Time MD, Rockville Strategic Planning

... since kids in school will probably realize that being paper pushers in health insurance companies might have a limited life span, given America's getting fed up with insurance company leeches and hopefully at some point them being thrown out of the equation.

The longer we wait for this ultimate transition, perhaps the more problems we will also have in accounting snafus also afflicting our health care too, if its harder and harder for them to get quality workmanship to staff these positions over time, which will make our service that much worse, until we kick these insurance company bums OUT! Perhaps these want ads are a symptom of this starting to happen, much like its harder and harder to recruit highly qualified graduates of technical careers when students have seen the trends in outsourcing and H-1B Visa insourcing that make those careers less attractive as well.

The radiology department was excellent. however, Kaiser so much UNDER-employs doctors, nor does Kaiser utilize nurse practitioners to any real extent.

I would get Ultra sounds taken for one condition I suffer from, and then wait and wait -- only to have the doctor say (After the six weeks had passed so I could see her) "There isn't much to discuss."

Only after I persisted did she admit, well you do have fibroid tumors.

Then the treatment she advised was totally absurd, not emobolization, which would have destroyed the tumors, but a hot water bath for the tumors!

Insurance companies have a very heavy amount of personnel working on denying service.

Johns Hopkins told me I have a rare complication with my Nissen fundoplication and referred me to the chief surgeon at the Mayo Clinic. Oh, no! Kaiser said... we don't cover that. You can go to one of our "in-plan" surgeons. A week before my appointment the surgeon's nurse called me and cancelled the appointment! Why? says I... He can't help you, she said. I asked what his specialty was and was told......... Hernias! HERNIAS???!!!?!?!
The management of Kaiser is so far divorced from the patient it's ridiculous.
Guess I'll go on taking massive doses of medication and eating liquid meals.
They don't want to help me.

would pay for the entire health care costs of 300,000,000 people. Never mind how much the insurance companies paid out in claims, never mind how much the insurance companies paid out in other overhead costs, never mind how much the insurance companies paid out in profits their share holders.

We don't need to put the health insurance companies out of business--just socialize their profits.

:headbang:
rocktivity

40-60 million people without healthcare insurance should convince even the most hardened skeptic that putting the profits of Healthcare Insurance above the well-being of Americans is morally wrong.

The fact that these Healthcare Insurers have employees does not make it any less despicable.... Al Capone had employees!

As long as profit is in the equation, someone wins by screwing the public out of care.

and payoffs to our representatives.

do you see now why this will never be?

:kick:

able to afford to pay all that. I guess that money would go into some other private sector of our economy.

They are what is left after interjecting themselves as middlemen between the doctor and the patient. They determine what services are allowed to be provided to the patient, and how much the doctor will be paid.

Reduce the services provided, lower the amount paid to the doctors, and increase the health insurance premiums and raise the deductible and copays = private profits.

The only thing insurance companies can do is take their investment capital somewhere else, maybe invest in subprime mortgages --I hear some people are making a killing in that market 'helping people' also.

plans. See descriptions of Medicare services. The taxpayer can't substitute the millions (billions?) of dollars that companies and individuals pay in premiums.

If the private plans are taken out of the process, the govt will substitute a Medicare type plan (taxes will go up, to pay for that, of course).

The money that used to go to pay for premiums will now be spent in other private sectors (new appliances, more house, whatever).

they do now except that the money that once went to insurers would go into one pot to be distributed to those who need health care regardless of their ability to pay. Medicare services are paid for by payroll taxes and premiums charged to the recipient. There probably will be a higher payroll tax to pay for it, but when you offset it to what companies and individuals now pay for insurance and out of the pocket health care expenses the savings become immediately apparent.

Reason is because the companies would simply pass the cost on to customers/clients. Whether you call it a tax, or you tax companies, who pass it on to us, it's still tax dollars paying for services (fewer services...see Medicare plan, see Great Britain's system, see Canada's plan).

Companies provide ins. now because they get to deduct it from their taxes, and it's cheaper because of group rates.

Whoever is telling you a governmental system would work the way you're describing, isn't being truthful with you.

We cannot afford to make up for the millions of dollars (billions, probably) that people (either individually or thru their employers) voluntarily pay for ins.

I understand the middleman problem. It adds to the cost. But the ins. cos. also keep the costs down, since they have the clout to do that. And whoever pays the ins. cos. gets more services than those who rely on the government systems (Medicaid, Medicare).

The best system does seem to be what the administration proposes: a mixture of the two systems; government plan with subsidies for those who need it; regular ins. plans for those who can afford it (companies still get to deduct ins. premiums, encouraging employers to cont. providing ins.).

Also you said:

"The best system does seem to be what the administration proposes: a mixture of the two systems; government plan with subsidies for those who need it; regular ins. plans for those who can afford it (companies still get to deduct ins. premiums, encouraging employers to cont. providing ins.)."

Ouch! Right out of the insurance companies' play book. Take your little propaganda points elsewhere please. You are posting to people who have studied this for years from all angles and have come to the conclusion that there is one system that works best and it's the one without the insurance companies. Also, there is proof from the various countries that have tried various systems over the years and the single payer system is the one that works best above all the others, that can deliver comprehensive health care with the least cost.

Single payer is actually very conservative if you look at it very hard. It combines socialism in the way the money is handled with free enterprise capitalism in the way health care is delivered. Health care providers are free to set up their own businesses and compete with each other for business. Patients are free to chose whom they wish to go to for health care.

not YOUR opinion.

If we have BOTH public and private, you are free to purchase a plan through the government. If you have a certain amount of income, you'll have to pay the whole premium. But it might be less than a private policy. If you already have a policy through your employer, and you like it, or if you already purchase your own policy, you can keep that.

Wake up. The country is not going to change its ENTIRE system of handling health care from a private system to a public system. One reason is: we can't afford it. The cost would boggle the mind, even in these times of talking of trillion dollar deficits. Just passing the prescription part of the Medicare so-called Reform Act cost over ONE TRILLION DOLLARS to get it started. Second, the complexity of transferring over totally from one system to another would cause endless problems and be a nightmare.

We are not getting single payer only. We are getting a mix of the two plans. Accept it. It is a reality. If we get health care reform at all.

Our current system (not the one in the Constitution, but the current two-party system) is corrupt to its core. It exists PRECISELY to preserve the bonuses, stock options, multi-million dollar packages and other privilege of the wealthiest few. It has ZERO incentive to help the rest of us. Our system will do the least possible to keep us from revolting violently, nothing more.

to the middle man.