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Have you ever not checked out or ordered a book because you were afraid it would be flagged?

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Mike 03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-25-09 06:44 PM
Original message
Have you ever not checked out or ordered a book because you were afraid it would be flagged?
Edited on Mon May-25-09 06:45 PM by Mike 03
To this day, I have no clue if this is true or not, but when I was beginning my career in writing I was cautioned that if I ordered certain books, like police manuals, manuals on homicide investigation, or any kind of controversial material that could be misconstrued as being ordered for improper purposes, it would be flagged in some way.

That notion was also revivified in a semi-famous sequence in the Fincher movie "SE7EN", in which it is asserted that if you check out from a library works by Hitler or certain other messed up figures, you are being, in essense, stalked by the FBI.

To this day, I don't know if it is true or not. It wouldn't surprise me, sad to say.

But I have not been deterred, thus far, from ordering or reading controversial books, particularly textbooks on unpleasant matters such as crime scene investigation, homicide investigation, serial killers and their geographic patterns of operation, and their motivations, and many law text books that deal with similarly unpleasant topics with respect to forensic psychiatry, criminal law and evidence related to criminal law.

Have you ordered "controversial" materials and, if so, has anything bad ever happened to you?

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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-25-09 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
1. No (as in, I have never felt inhibted about what I check out). I have better things to worry about.
Edited on Mon May-25-09 06:46 PM by anigbrowl
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-25-09 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
2. No. Fuck 'em. Let them come and get me. nt
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-25-09 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
3. No
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-25-09 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
4. I have been a Bookstore manager for a major chain and worked many years in libraries
The answer is: no.
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-25-09 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Ever been leaned on about purchase/borrowing records in either position?
I'm curious about how widespread that actually is.
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-25-09 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. We purged the records as soon as the book was returned
And, as far as I know, were never asked for info. That includes at the Bookstore.
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Hawkeye-X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-25-09 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
5. Nope, just got two books from Strand's
by a local DU'er..

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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-25-09 06:49 PM
Original message
I don't officially subscribe to Bite Back for that reason.
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-25-09 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
6. I'm completely unafraid of that sort of thing (nt)
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votingupstart Donating Member (535 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-25-09 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
9. no - i don't care
and i dare someone to confront me about my "reading Activities", i can guarantee a legal kick in the balls
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deadmessengers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-25-09 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
10. I 've taken precautions just in case.
My wife and I recently found a book online on home fermentation. Most of the book discussed the relatively innocuous topics of beer brewing and winemaking, but there was also a section covering the distillation of spirits, which is heavily regulated at the Federal level, and furthermore, completely outlawed in many states including our own. It occurred to me that buying the book online, with an easily verifiable paper trail, might not be the best idea. Instead, we found it at a Barnes and Noble about 20 miles away. We went to that store, and paid cash, with no names associated with the transaction.
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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-25-09 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
11. No, but I no longer buy pseudoephidrine because I do not want my ID taken
Edited on Mon May-25-09 07:06 PM by JonLP24
and entered into the system. I don't want to be treated as a possible meth manufacturer.

Sudafed is an effective sick/cold medicine. Very few medicines work better imo.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-25-09 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. While they do look at pseudephedrine purchases,
it's only to watch for patterns of large purchases. The record-keeping has, actually, cut down on meth production, so it works. As far as individual purchases in normal quantities, that information is ignored completely.

Nothing to worry about with that. Really. I use the stuff, especially this time of year, and I just pick it up at my normal pharmacy. It's even still cheap.
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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-25-09 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. I worry about anything that is a provision of a Patriot Act
Edited on Mon May-25-09 07:19 PM by JonLP24
I remember reading a story where a dad stocked up on sudafed for his kid's camping trip and was arrested.
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-26-09 07:06 AM
Response to Reply #12
22. More like now we get tons of meth imported from Mexico, and it's just more of a pain in the ass
Edited on Tue May-26-09 07:08 AM by LostinVA
to get Sudafed now, but not meth. Still plenty of meth around.

On edit: oops, this is Haruka. LostinVA would agree with me, though.
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-25-09 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
13. I pay cash for books that might be controversial
Sad to admit it, but I just don't want the fact thatI purchase certain books to be recorded.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-25-09 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
15. NEVER...but I'm older than you...so they would take me out in chains
before I would be intimidated. But, I can understand why some younger than me might worry.
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Journeyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-25-09 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
16. How ever will you find the resolve to fight for what you believe. . .
if you lack the courage to learn what your beliefs are?
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surrealAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-25-09 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
17. There was a provision in the patriot act ...
... that required public libraries to supply circulation records if requested. In my town the library stopped keeping records because of this. Now once the book is returned, they don't know you had it out.
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RoyGBiv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-25-09 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
18. No.
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Cass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-25-09 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
19. Well, a few years ago Bin Laden made one of his tapes and suggested we all read some book he
recommended about American imperialism (I think that's what it was about) written by an American author whose name escapes me at the moment. Anyway, I thought it would be an interesting book to help me understand the perspective of someone like OBL, so like a dolt, I went to Amazon and tried to order it. The order seemed to go through without any problems but a few days later I got an email telling me the book was not available for sale anymore and that my order was cancelled. It wasn't until then that I realized I would probably wind up on some kind of list because of it.

:dunce:
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-25-09 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
20. I have never been afraid.
I have always hated censorship and if someone tells me not to read something, it makes me want to see it more.
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Ohio Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-25-09 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
21. No, never
I've ordered some... interesting books in my time and never with any hesitation or worry.
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-26-09 07:20 AM
Response to Original message
23. No, I don't mind my name joining a list of patriots who will not
cower in fear.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-26-09 07:39 AM
Response to Original message
24. I order what I want to. I don't cower to threats or bow to tyranny.
But I do hide my profile here, not because I think the government will do something, but to avoid harassment I have encountered.
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csziggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-26-09 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
25. No, because librarians fought that requirement
The American Librarian Association developed the Library Bill of Rights and have an Office of Intellectual Freedom "to educate librarians and the general public about the nature and importance of intellectual freedom in libraries."

What is the difference between privacy and confidentiality?

In a library, the right to privacy is the right to open inquiry without having the subject of one’s interest examined or scrutinized by others. Confidentiality exists when a library is in possession of personally identifiable information (see “What is personally identifiable information” below) about users and keeps that information private on their behalf. Confidentiality is a library’s responsibility. This responsibility is assumed when library procedures create records such as closed-stack call slips, computer sign-up sheets, registration for equipment or facilities, circulation records, what Web sites were visited, reserve notices, or research notes.

In protecting the privacy rights and the confidentiality rights of library users, librarians should limit the degree to which personally identifiable information is monitored, collected, disclosed, and distributed.

For ALA’s privacy policies and Privacy: An Interpretation of the Library Bill of Rights, see the Intellectual Freedom Manual, latest edition, and the Web site, “Privacy and Confidentiality.”
http://www.ala.org/ala/aboutala/offices/oif/statementspols/statementsif/interpretations/questionsanswers.cfm


Policy on Confidentiality of Library Records

The Council of the American Library Association strongly recommends that the responsible officers of each library, cooperative system, and consortium in the United States:

1. Formally adopt a policy that specifically recognizes its circulation records and other records identifying the names of library users to be confidential. (See also ALA Code of Ethics, Article III, "We protect each library user's right to privacy and confidentiality with respect to information sought or received, and resources consulted, borrowed, acquired or transmitted" and Privacy: An Interpretation of the Library Bill of Rights.)
2. Advise all librarians and library employees that such records shall not be made available to any agency of state, federal, or local government except pursuant to such process, order or subpoena as may be authorized under the authority of, and pursuant to, federal, state, or local law relating to civil, criminal, or administrative discovery procedures or legislative investigative power.
3. Resist the issuance of enforcement of any such process, order, or subpoena until such time as a proper showing of good cause has been made in a court of competent jurisdiction.1

1Note: Point 3, above, means that upon receipt of such process, order, or subpoena, the library's officers will consult with their legal counsel to determine if such process, order, or subpoena is in proper form and if there is a showing of good cause for its issuance; if the process, order, or subpoena is not in proper form or if good cause has not been shown, they will insist that such defects be cured.

Adopted January 20, 1971, by the ALA Council; amended July 4, 1975; July 2, 1986.
http://www.ala.org/ala/aboutala/offices/oif/statementspols/otherpolicies/policyconfidentiality.cfm


As you can see by the dates of the policy above the ALA has been concerned about privacy for a long time.

The ALA also has a brand new web site with a blog to support individual privacy - The Privacy Revolution http://www.privacyrevolution.org/.
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