My right wing guest at our cookout this afternoon got drunk and threatened to kill himself.

He can't take living in our very liberal city (New Haven) anymore. He has no friends (retired) and when he hangs out at a local pub everyone attacks him for his views and calls him a fascist. He is an acquaintance of my husband who likes the pub for its variety of good beers. He and this guy are both from Wisconsin and have lots in common, hence the relationship. However, my husband is as liberal as they come and this guy is, well, strange. He is a former college professor (econ) and at this point, I am not sure where he thinks he is on the political spectrum. He claims to "love" Obama even tho he didn't vote for him (he voted for Nader). He thinks Nancy Pelosi will be unseated as Speaker because she doesn't support Obama's policies and made a money bet with my husband on it. Yet every subject he brings up points to a very conservative point of view. He talks about the views of the Catholic Church almost constantly.

The guy was defensive to start with in the late afternoon when he and his wife arrived. He got steadily drunk as the afternoon and early evening went on. His embarrassed and clearly alarmed wife said they needed to leave. He then said he was going to go home and slash his wrists. He repeated the threat several times before she got him into their car and drove him away.

I think I just witnessed the complete unraveling of the mind of a Republican nutjob. I have sympathy for anyone who is just that crazy in the presence of their host at a dinner party. And I felt sorry for his wife.

You know, I tried to reason with the guy. I said maybe he was just interpreting people who challenged his views with that of hatred of him. This was in response to him characterizing himself as a "Ni**er" since he was Polish. I said to him "Well, now, really Jim, were you brought here as a slave?" Then he gave me the finger and excused it by saying that midwesterners do that all the time in a friendly way but only New Englanders take offense.

Well, we worked hard on the dinner to make it a good meal and show them a nice time. We had good, fresh and expensive foods. His wife was lovely but this guy is just impossible. I must say I found it very disturbing...

He needs to get some help with his drinking problem, maybe.

if he is suicidal

I am not sure what the correct procedure is when you hear someone suggest suicide. Since the guy went home with his wife, I suppose the burden is on her. Does anyone know if she is supposed to report his remarks? At the very least, it seems she should call his primary care physician.

in the morning or whenever he awakens sober, tell him what he did/threatened, and tell him he's got to get help/get into treatment for alcoholism, immediately.

Poor woman.

Sounds like there's hope, if he really voted for Nader.

Nobody considers killing themselves in America strictly because of their political views.

There are "support groups" for every politial persuasion almost anywhere.

:evilgrin:

Maybe he is depressed and needs to address that!

Some cognitive work with a good therapist, perhaps a good match up with the right anti-depressant, and of course, NOT DRINKING would be a worthy occupation at this point in his life.

After some solid work, he may well find he has renewed interests and his life can become interesting (possibly with periods of happiness). Sometimes people get so far down they forget to have interests that aren't feeding the depression.

One hopes he is big enough, and wise enough to seek help. Life IS worth living, but sometimes it is easy to lose sight of that and get stuck in a place with a really bad view.

I wish more people would get help, real help, and do the work to get a handle on depression. It pays off the best dividends of ANY other investment we can make.

in a world of Depression, like it or not and many of us have needed help to over come it.

Seems too many people are adverse to getting 'help', tho I firmly believe most, if not all, need some at one time or another.

One thing about getting the help I needed was it really enabled me to grow, evolve, become more aware and more me. Perhaps if we could sell the concept of therapy as just one more type of education most of us could benefit from, the stigma of needing help would evolve into something else?

I'm fine with needing help, but it seems anathema to too many in this nation. Too many feel they are suppose to go it alone. And we end up too alienated, not just from each other, but from our authentic selves. We end up stuck and unable to grow, evolve, become what we are capable of becoming.

Depression may have been the best thing to happen to some of us ;)

your not supposed to cry... Don't damn well cry or show any emotions, Period..... That changed, but now we have Depression and many that don't think it is ok to say, hey I don't feel ok... I want to kill myself cause I don't feel worthy.... This needs to change...

I went through that for too long. Then something snapped and the anger I turned inward met up with an internal sense of justice. I KNEW I was a decent person and did NOT deserve to feel so miserable. It was a struggle between the two opposing emotions inside me, but the sense that it was not JUST that I be punished for no reason slowly overcame the ambivalence.

Worked like hell to get better. Still have to work on staying out of the darkest place, but once I learned that how I feel TODAY is not what FOREVER feels like, I learned to ride out the bad spells. Figure you have the same thing going on. Glad you did your homework. Life is better when we can feel it all and step back from the abyss.

We are worth the work to feel better, see color and hear music. We are worth the work to sometimes experience joy. And we are often much kinder people for having gone through the darkness. We can venture back into the tunnel to hold a light for some other traveler, as others did for us.

Life is worth the work. But we have to accept that it is work.

and I even spoke briefly about it to his wife, who is still working. She wondered, as I did when I was still slaving away, how great it will be to have time on her hands to do what she wants to do (painting and gardening). I said that even with the projects I had I was still pretty isolated from old friends and contacts. Retirement does that just naturally to you unless you work at replacing it with another set of friends and contacts.

I'm afraid, tho, that this guy really does need to go to another part of the country where his views might be more acceptable to more people. I do, however, plan to try to help. I am emailing his wife today about inviting him to join the Institute for Learning in Retirement locally and asking him to design an econ course for other members. I'm doing a poetry class for them next spring and he could certainly come up with something that our highly well educated members could appreciate, as long as he sticks to econ and away from politics and the Church...

It's hard when you differ philosophically from everyone around you.

I can understand his plight.

I'm not considering killing myself, but it is so frustrating. I go through spells of downright anger sometimes, and I lash out at times. DUers in blue states really have no idea how tough it can be.

I don't like to think that we liberals could get that way.

What I really think is that the Church screwed him up at an early age. His references to the Church and to Opus Dei bordered on the very creepy...

I'm bipolar and meds don't completely alleviate it, add in conflict with everyone around you on a very basic level and it's a recipe for clinical depression.

And something else to talk about besides politics.

goes to the Long Wharf theater for their plays, and to the library--or just hangs around town. I fell in love with New Haven when I visited in 2005. Only wish I'd had more time to look around.

Just pm me and let me know!

warning-I'm a genealogist and history buff, and would have loved to have had the time to find out more about the earliest times in New Haven, when my kinfolk were kicking around there.

There's also the New Haven Colony Historical Museum with tons of material about old CT yankees, going back a looong time. New Haven was founded in 1638.

to politics and religion too. It was weird.

He is totally cut off from human communication except for his wife and his buds and the pub, AFAIK. He listens to Rush and likes Bill Maher.

The only point where he was not on politics and religion is when we discussed his area, Economics. We had a discussion about "scarcity" and "rarity." That was OK.

Sounds like he's at the bottom of a very deep pit and has no idea of how to get out.

He needs other things to occupy his mind.

But then again I was born there, and I managed to get over it.

You friend has booze problems.

if that is the case. Usually some people drink heavily because they are depressed. If both are the cases of course recieving help to quit drinking is important but resolving the depression should be first or foremost.

Sounds to me like she has a real handful dealing with this guy and you didn't mention if she had any local support.

She's got a big, heavy job all day and he's home being morose I guess...

Another loser in economics that bought the "deregulation works" lie for his entire life now feels like his life is a failure. Guess what, it is!

and let them decide what to do with the information. Whether he was serious or not, it could be the wakeup call he and/or his wife needs.

It's been my experience that dealing with cops is very much a mixed bag, sometimes you get a great one and sometimes you get an officious asshole.

An officious asshole could well push this guy over the edge.

A 15 year old who went to my high school back in 2003, Mario Madrigal was shot by police a few blocks from where I live. The father called the police when his son was drunk and wielding a kitchen knife threatening to take his own life. Anyways they came and the fact they did taser the 15 year old is not disputed. The father claims he dropped his knife and was no longer a threat. The police say he was threatening and advanced towards them and three officers fired their weapons indicating more then 1 bullet was fired. Anyways the point is this plea for help turned into a tragedy for the family involved. I'd call the police as a last resort imo.

I think.

There's a person who sounds like he has a serious substance problem, probably derived from some serious psych problems. I feel badly for him.

loaned him my pistol

I'm reading about a very sick person. Someone who literally screamed for help.

Politics wouldn't get in the way of me feeling for that person, and helping if I could.

serious issues. I wanted to ask him if he had once been a seminarian but decided it would be too personal a question. He kept coming back to the church in his comments and I found that strange.

alcohol in his need. If he'd been raised Catholic, he likely felt comforted by his faith. It sounds as though what's coming through is the ugly that's eating at him.

Just my impression, of course.

but he did seem to harp on a few themes about apostates returning to the church in their later years.

I felt he gave me too much information about his own personal devils and it made me uncomfortable. There are some things about people I just don't want to know...

I don't envy you the experience, believe me.

In my experience some of the most hard core right wingers have some deeeeeeep personal issues. We had a guy at work who was a MAJOR right winger, constantly spouting lines from Hannity and Limbaugh, and trashing LBGT people. Totally lazy and he wouldn't do his job. The real kicker was when he accidentally left his Adult Friend Finder profile on his computer. Turns out he was bisexual and a cross dresser.

That explained all of the womens clothing catalogs that would arrive at work addressed to him.

We didn't confront him or embarrass him about it. It probably would have killed him if he knew we knew. It's a shame people can't be themselves.

So he can be just as miserable as the republicans here.

That means the guy has a Ph.D. There are few communities of righties in academia and even if he found one his wife has a very lucrative job in the Northeast. If he moves to a deeply red state he'll find a problem with the kinds of people with whom he feels politically and religiously sympathetic with and their lack of brainpower in most places. In a way it is tragic for him.

This guy sounds like he might be dangerous -- and not just to himself.

I worry about his wife. Is she safe? Does she know what options she has in case he decides to take out his anger at her?

as drunken self pity. And she seemed pretty blase about it, as if she had seen this before and here he goes again.

But now I'm concerned. I think I'll make a discreet inquiry later in the week. I don't want to embarrass her any more than she was tonight...

in the news this year. I think you'd be doing the right thing in offering her support.

me, I would talk with the wife - she probably needs a sympathetic ear

When he starts talking suicide like that, it's time to call in professional help.

I was in a locked down area called suicide watch at the hospital. That place made me even more miserable, I pretty much lied about how I was feeling regarding impulses so I get out of there.

But I'm having a hard time thinking of any right now.

Just in a wing of a Madigan hospital which housed people with sucidal or homicidal thoughts in locked in an area with no sharp objects, no clothes, and were escorted on smoke breaks in case one of us decided to take off. However the lack of freedom, the setting, etc made me even more miserable. I'm sure there are more miserable places but that place was not a pleasent place for me to be at the time.

Your description sounds a lot like a mental hospital to me.

Not trying to be snarky, sympathetic is more like it.

I just meant to tell what it actually was I was in. They had all the other departments you'd expect to see in a hospital. In fact it was the emergency room I checked into, from my previous trips to the ER I was actually suprised by the immediate response as they checked me in, took my blood pressure, etc. I was later transfered to that wing after answering truthfully to a various list of questions such as 'do you feel like hurting yourself?'

You could say I was checked into the mental wing of the hospital but no one there was insane or mentally diminished in someway. They just had some issues.

Whether people are insane or mentally diminished isn't always immediately apparent.

We had a couple of people I would judge insane or mentally diminished at the very head of our government for eight years.

something else is eating away at him, he needs serious help and needs it fast.

;)

And especially at social gatherings. You two should just make a pact not to bring up politics or religion in your discussions.

I'm speaking from experience, a lot of experience.

For ages I tried to talk reasonable with a lifelong right wing friend, we no longer talk. This last election was the last straw. He never liked ni**ers (his words). These people are fed hate speech day after day. They are told 'liberals' are the most vile thing on earth. You can't reason with them.

He should probably be seen by a doctor.

Maybe he'll be happier hanging around with the dim bulb sheep and dittoheads. If the guy has any decency at all he'll apologize to you whenever he sobers up. I feel sorry for his wife.

They were in a pub, people drink alcoholic beverages in pub.

Alcohol effects a lot of people that way, so many that it's a cliche.. "Don't listen to him, it's the liquor talking"..

As far as I can tell the man threatened no one other than himself, what basis would the owner of the establishment have had to force him to leave?

to drink in noisy bars (I have nothing against moderate drinking and I do so myself with friends and family). But the times I have been in the pub and talked with him he has not been this extreme. Also it is so noisy that you can barely carry on a decent conversation. The pub has the TV going, a dart section and a pool table and so there's lots more to do there (if you wish) than to talk. He came to my house with an "attitude" and I think the alcohol just brought it out more. He came in waving a bottle of champagne and I thought he was being festive and good natured (I can only tolerate a small amount of champagne because it makes me a little dizzy so I took only enough for a toast and then switched to sparkling water fast).

Plus it's been several hours since I read it anyway..

You probably should have asked him to leave then.

I almost completely avoid alcohol for much the same reason as this man got in trouble with it, I'm philosophically diametrically opposed to almost everyone in my community and alcohol leads to friction because it loosens my teeth that are usually firmly clenched on my tongue.

Edited to add: I looked back at your OP and see why I assumed you were in pub, you mentioned being at a pub on previous meetings.

This happened very soon after the champagne so I am supposing that as he gets older he is finding it harder to hold his alcohol, so to speak. We actually only had beer and a lighter red wine to drink. Plus soda and water. I wasn't expecting him to bring champagne and then get to it right away, it being only 3 p.m. when they arrived. I thought maybe he'd have a beer and then wait for dinner and the red wine I had bought. It didn't occur to me that he would abuse the alcohol I was offering, since we do this with other friends and family and nobody gets drunk. Boy, was I wrong...

Being surrounded by people you think of at least to some extent as "enemies" is remarkably difficult.

I've even had friction with members of my family over politics when I speak my mind as freely as they do, it can turn into an ugly shouting match in a remarkably short time, particularly when fueled by alcohol.

Politics in this country is astoundingly polarized and I think your experience in this matter is a very good example of the sort of thing that can all too easily happen when the terms of political discussion are largely set by demagogues.

ALOT OF THE CONSERVATIVE RIGHT WING CRAZIES ARE BEHOND THEMSELVES. THEY TALK CRAZY. I KNOW HOW THEY FEEL WHEN I WAS OUT IN THE WILDERNESS FOR MANY YEARS. EVEN NOW LIVING IN A RED STATE I AM ONE OF THE FEW WHO VOTED FOR OBAMA. I PROUDLY HAVE MY STICKER ON MY CAR SAYING I VOTED FOR OBAMA. ALL THOSE YEARS DEBATING THIS ONE GUY I WORKED WITH WHO IS A BIBLE THUMPER AND A REPUBLICAN IS IN SHOCK THAT A DEMOCRATIC WON. WHEN I SAW HIS WIFE SHE ASKED ME WHO I VOTED FOR. NOW MIND YOU THIS YOUNG WOMAN WAS IN HER EARLY 30S AND I WAS 60. YOU WOULD THINK ALL THE YEARS THAT I LIVED AND MY TRAVELS AROUND THE WORLD WOULD SAY SOMETHING. WELL SHE GOT REALLY UPSET. OBAMA IS A SOCIALIST, BLAH, BLAH. I TOLD HER THAN SO WERE HER PARENTS BECAUSE THEY WERE COLLECTING SOCIAL SECURITY AND MEDICARE. I ASKED HER WHO WAS GOING TO HELP THEM IF THE GOVERNMENT DIDN'T? AS USUAL THEY BLAME THE DEMOCRATICS FOR EVERYTHING. THAN I REALLY GOT HER MAD AND SAID OH YEAH I LOVE SOCIALISM. I AM A FIRM BELIEVER THAT GOVERNMENT SHOULD HELP THEIR CITIZENS. NOT LIKE REGAN SAID GOVERNMENT IS IN THE WAY.

Just kidding, but many of today's Republicans are firm believers that the end-times are close at hand.

Isn't this a form of a wish for self-destruction? Isn't it in reality a desperate wish for mass suicide in which they delude themselves they would be transformed into some type of perfected being? I seem to think that their dream of a utopia built on ultra-conservative values has been such a miserable failure that the are suffering massive depression and look to end-times as their escape.

Their dream of a Ozzie and Harriet America of WASPs deservedly enjoying perpetual good times and all those frightful minorities in their rightful subservient place in society has crash and burned. They have found it frustrating that they are unable to control the situation. How dare those gays and lesbians along with the hoards of minorities demand an equal station in life. Down right depressing. Let's beam up and let the end-times roll. Don't be too surprised if they would actually work to hasten it along with a few nuclear bombs to provide a self fulfilling prophesy.

Everyone called him "Castro" as he walked around in green military fatigues all the time, hat & everything.. One Friday we had a dorm get together, ours was the older folks dorm, we were late 20's people.. Had some wine, cheese, etc going, boring but friendly low key party.. This guy drinks too much, goes to his room, returns with a loaded gun..

Sticks it to his head, sez, "There! Does That give you Power?!"

Everyone freezes, it's dead silent, but of course I always have an opinion so, with a mouth full of potato chips I look over at him and say..

"Listen, if you're going to make a Mess, man, take it outside.."

Suddenly the room erupted in laughter, & the guy walked out...

But, he totally Quit the whole Castro look, cut his hair, started laughing appropriately, and buckling down in his studies.. Wanted to teach middle grade school children..

God but when I think now of how stupid that remark was at the time.. He could have killed a lot of people the probably himself, but I think God was quipping through my mouth that day.

You're friend is clinically depressed, needs no more booze & medical help..

The guy sounds depressed. No friends, can't even go to a bar without being called a fascist. Sounds like some of the people around him are throwing gasoline on the fire fueling his depression.

but the few neo-cons/RW's I know are convinced that doomsday is at hand now that one of "those people" runs the country. One has said out loud that he fears that there will be no more elections since the democrats have the White House and Congress; this from a guy that looks like Tommy Chong but sounds a bit too much like Newt Gingrich. The RW's are beside themselves depressed seeing all that they fear coming to pass and they can do nothing about it. I've found most immune to logic and facts and beyond change. Don't worry about them, they seem way too anxious to go to their version of heaven, anyway. :freak:

Calling himself the n-word, then giving you the finger? What the hell?

Sorry but even in my backwood of Chicago only a jagoff would give the finger to a supposed friend.

Perhaps a part of sorting through his troubles may involve a political science class refresher?

I just think he is incredibly screwed up in the head.

Sounds like he has alcohol problems along with depression.

She must have felt humiliated...

Another reason I don't really hang out with heavy drinkers very often when drinks are available-- too many highballs encourage emotions to swamp the levees of appropriate behavior and civil discourse, then it invariable becomes either "I love you/myself!" or "I hate you/myself!", with little room for anything in between.

And soon, that horrible triad of conversation-- religion, sports and politics makes an ugly appearance, usually without any positive consequences. I used to feel pity whenever I've seen an individual lose his composure in front of a large group due to liquor, now I simply get annoyed with them and try to avoid them in the first place.

God only knows how horrified his wife was with him-- I'd feel pretty small if my SO made herself out to be a complete buffoon (and would think she'd feel the same were the situation reversed).