My 8 year old daughter was forced to confront a bully - I am pissed off

This week my little girl came home from school and told me the following story:

While on the playground she witnessed an obvious and disturbing bullying incident. A little boy, her same age, was playing with her on the school playground- he is smaller than all the other kids his age. (He was born missing his right hand and has only 3 fingers on the other. He has a prosthetic leg since he is also missing one leg. This little kid is a testament to what being brave is all about. He never complains about his physical differences but instead does his best to do whatever all the other kids are doing. He has taught himself how to run in a very choppy "gallop" and has learned to ride a scooter - it is difficult since he is missing a hand and a leg but he comes over to play at my house and keeps up with his able bodied peers...) anyway, while out on the playground a kid who is twice his size began making fun of the boys missing hand and then began mocking his gallop... he taunted and teased until this poor kid was so humiliated that he sat down on the playground and hid his face in his knees.

When I heard the story I wrote an email to the school principal outlining the incident - I Cc'd the boys mother and my husband. The next morning I followed up with a phone call to make sure that this would not happen again... I was told that there is a zero tolerance policy for bullying and that the abusive boy would be "counseled and that his parents would be contacted" I insisted that this be done right away since the victim was embarrassed and afraid to go back to school. This child has had to endure a lot of nasty comments about his disabilities and I know for a fact that the wounds are deep.

Here is what they did:
They took my daughter along with the little victim and placed them in a room, they brought in the bully and had him sit across from my daughter and the victim. Then they made my little girl tell what she had witnessed. Then surprise, surprise, the kid denies all of it, said it was a lie and that it never happened. That was it. My daughter came home feeling like there is no justice. That simply by denying the event, the kid is not being punished and the victim sees that his and my daughters stories are flatly denied and without missing beat calls my child and the victim liars. Of course this kid has a reputation for being a monster and his parents always stand up for him claiming that he would never, ever do anything wrong. He has zero conscience and my kids feels victimized by him, the counselor and the school. She said she would never report another incident since she knows that she will be made to feel that her word is worthless and that she has no power to protect herself from the abuser.

You have that right, and should follow through.

Kudos to your daughter, the boy and you and yours! :applause:

You are doing the right thing. :hug:

rv, incensed (taught nearly 28 years and would never do this to anyone in a fearful position)

You need to write a very clear and stern letter to the principal -- CC all parents involved as well as the superintendent AND the president of the school board.

Within this letter you need to inform them that an apology needs to given to your daughter and the victim as well as the proper punishment to the perpetrator. Inform them that you will NOT tolerate this one iota even if a long and drawn out legal battle should insue as well as a public thrashing through the press and media.

An African American girl was harassed pretty badly at the local high school here where I live. Her mother did all she could to get the school officials and the parents to do something about it. The taunts continued without any punishment. Finally, the mother went to the ACLU for help. They assisted her in suing the school board. They won MILLIONS in retribution. The school board is now appealing this verdict. But the most positive thing about this lawsuit is that bully situations at school are confronted IMMEDIATELY now.

So this never happens to another student, even more, your daughter, ever again. :hug:

forum. If no press coverage of the school board meetings in your area, CC a copy of your letter to parents, principal, supt, school board to the education reporter of your local paper.

Also you could, w/ the parents of the bullied child, try to gather stories from parents of other victims of bullying - band together to FORCE the school to be pro-active in preventing bullying and seriously punishing bullies. The school must be held accountable.

They have basically called your daughter a liar, and she will never trust telling an authority what actually happened. Disgusting behavior from the school. And I'm not one who usually says the parents should get involved on this level, but it is well warrented in this case.

and don't worry, I have already set a time for the visit - My husband already talked face to face with the principal.

:hugs: Let us know what happens

:)

Fight the good fight. They should never have done what they did to those poor little kids.

:grr:

How very awful for your daughter. And for the kid being bullied. And even for the bully. (As he will grow up to think that his parents will always be there for him, even after he serially rapes or kills.)

My heart gpoes out to your daughter and the young man who is so brave on a daily basis.

My daughter is one of the sweetest people I have ever known. She cries when she thinks she may have somehow hurt anothers feelings. She often times stands up to people who are teasing others.

And you are right about this bully - I have known him since he was in kindergarten and he has some missing emotions... He is going to make a nice future defendant.

The little boy who was the victim has such a cheerful soul. He gets in the pool during the summer and has to remove his prosthetic limb in front of all to see. He gets a lot of stares and some kids are afraid of him but he just keeps on being a happy little guy.

But someone didn't pay attention during training. You never allow an offender into a mediation until and unless they admit to the offense, for exactly the reason you state--the victim(s) feel re-offended. What needs to be done, imo, is to separate the bully from the other kids--keep him in at recess, make him eat alone, etc, and then do some empathy training with him. Teach him to think about what others are feeling when they're being bullied or left out.

This kind of behavior can be turned around, but not by people who don't know what they're doing.

Sorry that your daughter and her friend have had to go through this. :hug:

Why should school administrators have to go through any kind of mediation with kids? Shouldn't they talk to his parents?

They no doubt thought it could be handled "in house", and I honestly think it could've been, with a competent mediator. If the parents just keep defending the bully, their presence would do more harm than good. This sounds like a situation of the school having to unteach what the kid learns at home, which, again, can be done. But it takes real skill in mediation and non-violent communications.

One of the best schools my son ever attended was a little grade school in semi-rural Connecticut. Some kid was bullying him and making fun of his name in the cafeteria. My son was drinking an open carton of chocolate milk at the time and decided to hurl it at the bully. He met his mark.

The school principal called me almost immediately--laughing--to let me know what happened.

;-)

At his high school he was also bullied in a classroom situation once or twice by some jock types who demanded school supplies from him or something. We talked about that, and things seemed to work out.

Then he wrote a creative piece, trying to imitate Oscar Wilde, some of whose works we had at home. His young teacher accused him of sexual harassment. (It was true that my son was disappointed he didn't get a part in the school play, and he probably had some passive-aggressive response in writing the piece, but it by no means added up to sexual harassment. I read what he wrote.) I met with the principal and the vice-principal with my son. He had strep throat at the time, and I informed the principal of this beforehand, but the principal and the vice-principal wanted to see him anyway. During our meeting, the vice-principal accused him of faking his illness and altering his voice! I told her that no, he had been diagnosed with strep just two days before, and if she wanted verification, she could call his doctor. The woman THEN said that she had tried to contact me at my place of employment, which she believed was a liquor store. (I am not making this up.) I informed her that no, I didn't work in a liquor store--it turned out that my son had written some random phone contact on his emergency card--that I taught college English. She looked at me as if she didn't believe that either.

She was gone from that high school within a year or two. I was not surprised. Reportedly, she was fired.

On a happier note, and back to bullying, my son had a wonderful friend who was repeatedly bullied because he was missing some fingers on one of his hands and because he was an outspoken "nerd." He had wild red hair and could play the piano despite his missing fingers. The jocks liked to bully him, but only for awhile. My son was walking home from school with him one day when the bullies appeared behind them. They taunted and taunted, gradually approaching. They gave a little push to my son's friend. That's all it took.

The red-haired "nerd" with the missing fingers finally lashed out physically, and according to my son, it was very impressive! :rofl: It only took that one response. After that, the "nerd" was not bothered again.

i agree.

goes against "zero tolerance " policies at school, but it's the truth.

This kid was very patient and understood the stupidity of the bullies pursuing him, but he finally reached his breaking point. It was natural.

had two sons..one was enormous but sensitive but no one touched him. The other was very tiny with health problems but at a very very early age he developed the most sarcastic sardonic sense of humor and would take bullies' power away with one caustic remark. They left him alone as most are..well limited re verbiage.

Suspension was time well-served.

Trust me, ANY kid would be willing to miss a couple days of school in detention to finally have a bully of of their backs.

Not everyone is capable of fighting back...it's like stepping off of a cliff, but those that do soon realize that bully's don't really have the heart to fight someone who has nothing left to lose. When victims of bullying fight back, it's usually with the desperation and savagery of a cornered animal.

School size doesn't matter when nobody cares.

The principal called me right away.

And goodness, yes, this should be about dealing with the bully's behavior, not in making those victimized prove themselves!

Especially by this one kid that towered over me. I have always been small for my age so I'm always the target for bullying.

I honestly can't really remember exactly what he would say to me, but it would end in him pushing me down or taking one of my snacks.

One day I snapped and took my fully loaded lunch box and swung it into the side of his head. Knocked him flat on his ass. I didn't say anything to the kid. I didn't taunt him. I just walked away. He never got near me again.

The important thing is to teach your kids to be confident. Not confident in inflicting violence like I did. Confident in how they portray themselves. Someone that walks with a purpose and a smile on their face is not going to be the target of bullies. They look for easy targets. The best way to keep your kid from being bullied is to make sure they have a healthy self-esteem.

Bu that doesn't always work. One time when this other kid hit me and I was in the principles office, the principle never even asked if the bully did it. She had verification that he did it and she acted as though he had hit me without a doubt. She did a really good job of turning the tables on the bully and he seemed to soften up quite a bit.

in the second grade. My dad told me I should kick him in the crotch. Of course, I had never hit or kicked anyone up until then, and didn't feel comfortable with the idea, so I let the bullying go on every day, for weeks and weeks, until one day I couldn't take it any more and kicked him.

He gave me a black eye in return. That was the last time I ever tried to stand up against a bully.

because that is what I thought of right away.

EMPATHY "training" - How weird is that? I do not remember a time that I had to be trained to care about other people.

where were you?

Some school administrators really anger me. I had a bad experience when my son was in high school.

that this inquisition was going to happen. I had no clue that my daughter or the victim would be put in this situation. Had I known, it would never happened.

The parents of the bully were probably not told about it either - I believe there is going to be a meeting between the principal and the parents - At least that is what I was told would happen.

Good luck. :hi: I admire you!

and the principal will say ok and that will be the end of it.

I'll try to locate some documents they can make use of.

In the meantime, for you, :hug: , for your daughter, :hug: :hug:, for the little boy, :hug: :hug: and for his family, :grouphug:

Is there a PTA at that school????

:hi:

to the School Board, if necessary.

There is no reason a child would lie about such a thing. The Principal's a dick.

There was an occasion when my father took a related sort of thing up with the school with regard to a teacher's actions towards me. My father is a force of nature. It ended with a personal apology to me from the teacher, in the Principal's office.

Of course, that teacher was forever looking for a way to get back at me. He never succeeded, though.

The school board should have some sense of their vulnerability. Try to get your daughter and the little boy to tell their story to the board. CALLTHE PRESS - be sure you get good pictures of the two sweet kids victimized by the bully. Let your daughter know that you will stick up for her. It's been well documented that bullying is bad for the bullied and the bully.

My son, at a slightly older age, had a problem with a teacher. We were able to establish that the teacher was mistaken - we found the papers she had corrected, but said he never turned in. It made a huge difference to him that we stuck up for him, that we talked to the teacher and the principal. I'm convinced that we had a relatively mild time during his teenage years because he learned to trust us.

What the hell were they thinking? Maybe they are fed up with that kid's parents. There's no sense in doing that to your daughter or to the victim of the bullying! Idiots.

Give 'em hell! This is so wrong! :mad:

that's just great! way to go school! zero tolerance my ass! this stuff goes on and has been for like ever. when i was a kid i was told to ignore them and buck up... it's a part of life. this is the kind of stuff that causes kids to go postal. and the way they dealt with it just reinforces the bully and emboldens him or her to keep doing what they are doing. see,i can do what i want and just lie about it and get away with it. Kudos to your daughter for at least trying to stand up for her friend. And I bet the kids parents refuse to blame their kid for anything. that's usually how it goes. those parents are going to have problems with that kid because he is never held accountable for his actions. and believe me, they will get worse to the point that the kid will have more problems than being accused of being a bully by other kids at school. by not nipping this in the bud, they are setting that kid up for possible issues with assault and perhaps worse things. because he thinks he can do what he wants and not even have any consequences for it.

no friends. None. Other children are afraid of him. But when he gets into Junior High and High School - you may be right ...

Your daughter.

Bring the boy's parents with them, and THREATEN that if the bully doesn't get the proper punishment, that you will tell your daughter's story along with the boy's story to the press and explain EXACTLY what happened. I'm sure when the district superintendent picks up the paper the following morning, you can bet your ass that the principal will be in the hot seat, maybe even fired for failure to follow the zero tolerance policy on bullies.

The story told by the press will highly embarrass the bully's parents and will eventually decide to force the bully to either 1) apologize or 2) go to a reformatory school.

The press loves a scandal, and that's one :)

Hawkeye-X

I would never make this into some grand standing event to expose these kids.

My daughter would never speak to me again and the kid who was bullied would be horrified...

The superintendent is a "moran" from N. Carolina and his idea of keeping kids from being sick is to use the robo-call system to inform us that we should all "sneeze into your sleeve"

The bully's parents are close to being brain dead--- (I have had to deal with them) and so they would just stare like deer into the lights of a camera... I would end up looking like the crazy person for involving the media...

Hawkeye-X - I love you but this is not going to work.. at least not for me in this instance. :)

It sounds like the school messed up, alot of the strength against bullies is the combined feelings of many people. She should not have been alone in the meeting, she should have been together with the other children in the playground that knew of the incident.

I would guess the child that was bullied does not want pity, but he does want a fair level of treatment as an equal valued person based on his character. Maybe your daughter and even other children their can stand with him on the play ground, and let the bully know his ways are not respected nor appreciated. Not with anger, but with friendship of the children with character, and the ignoring of those without character.

Good luck with the problem, and its good to know both you and your daughter were willing to stand up for him.

I think your daughter has alot of power, she stood up for what is right, and that is the more difficult, but the better path in my view.

Is this kid from a wealthy family?

but when they hit a brick wall of denial they just allowed it to sink... As long as the kid denies it, his parents (who are idiots btw,) will believe him.

of my child they didn't... They just dismissed the kids and left it hanging.

That's where this problem comes from. There are too many large schools, too many highly paid administrators (because of the sheer size of the schools), and not enough community.

I wish I had a dime for every parent who has shared with me a similar story. And these families come from all walks of life. I hear this way too much. It's maddening.

:grr:

This is bullsh*t! My heart goes out to the child that was bullied and to your daughter. The way they were treated is beyond ridiculous. Have you talked to the parents of the child that was bullied after the school did this? How are they doing?

I am friends with the mother of the little boy - My daughter befriended her son when they moved here - she took him under her wing and made him feel okay about himself - she is a natural nurturer. The little boy loves to come over to our house -

I did talk a couple of times to the mother - she is livid at how the school handled this situation and wrote a scathing letter to the principal... Here it is with the names changed:

Dear "principal",

To be frank, I completely agree with Mr and Mrs QueenOfCalifornia's comments regarding yesterday's outcomes. My son reported the events and while I could tell he was glad that "Mr Bully" was reported for his actions, it was clear that he was very deflated by the student's denial of all wrongdoing. He was extremely saddened by the one-sided resolution; My son was made to verbalize his complaints to "Mr Bullies face" and when he denied making the horrible comments and gestures, it made my son feel his own honesty had been called into question and he left not knowing whether the office "believed his story" at all.

In the contemporary workplace (such as a hospital system, for example), employees are assured that they can report wrongdoing in an anonymous fashion. If that weren't so, I am certain that almost no one would ever report anything for fear of retaliation and at the very least humiliation. It was humiliating and demoralizing for my son to hear "Mr Bully" deny all charges without remorse. I feel that it's possible that some of the good work that was done regarding the matter was overshadowed by this one misstep.

He concluded his explanation of the day's events with, "The bully just told everyone he didn't do it". He felt no justice after that. I don't know if there is a policy regarding this practice, but it goes against some basic tenets of psychology and human development. Confidentiality is more than a seven syllable word, it has become a necessary way of life for public servants. I support that because, uniquely, it actually exhibits true respect for the "individual" thereby edifying the "individual", whether he or she is aware or not.

I hope that this practice will be scrutinized and reviewed very carefully. It is not for me to tell you how to do your job and under normal circumstances, I am without complaint. As I stated yesterday, you are a saint for even taking on such a task as joyfully being principal of an elementary school, especially in southern California during this time of economic disaster.

Thank you for considering my point of view with regard to our current situation. My son was happy to go to school today, but I hope that zeal isn't crushed by cruelty at the tongue or the hand of another student. I know that you are genuinely against such behavior and completely supportive of our opinions regarding what occurred. Thank you for that. We do love you, "Miss Principal."

Sincerely,

The Mom of the Victim

This is a total outrage. I feel like the school is now bullying your daughter and the little boy too by not protecting them. Sometimes this happens, the people in charge are afraid of the bullies and protect them. Have you talked with the little boy's parents? Maybe you could work together on this. Bullying can be a life and death matter as you can see from the video clip below from last month. The link below is a great video posted last month with Anderson Cooper doing a segment on bullying. He also interviewed a woman who wrote a book called, The Bully, the Bullied and Those Who Stand By, by Barbara Coloroso.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x302419

I don't know what the next step is so hopefully someone here will know. I don't know how they can take the word of one kid against two, one of whom witnessed it!? Major kudos to your daughter for doing more than just standing by -- what a great kid she is -- what character and courage, and the little boy too for all that he has overcome. This is just totally sickening. I guess one thing I would do is make sure you write everything down, times, dates, names, etc., other witnesses, if any. Are there any bullying experts in your area? I would google "bullying" for some websites and maybe you will find someone local who has some training and experience with this as there is a woman in my area who is, whom I've called for advice re same. Oprah had a segment on last month about bullying too and had on a father whose son also committed suicide also over bullying. I don't remember the name of that website, but you could probably find in on Oprah's website. Good luck and please pm me the outcome if you are so inclined.

One kid accuses another of bullying a third person.

Another accuses the other kid of lying about him.

Tell them to both cut it out.

Problem solved.

All that does is embolden the bully, who gets to skate on his behaviour, and tells the victims that they should remain victims.

If you've never gone up against a school board, principal, or teacher about your kid getting the shit knocked out of him every day, like I have, you have no clue as to what you're talking about.

After the lawyers came in, the school board all of a sudden got very solicitous of my son's well-being. It was too late, then. We tried to make nice and use the system earlier, but all they wanted to do was 'tell them both to knock it off'.

When monetary damages get assessed, you get their undivided attention.

Little bit ironic.

but since I don't...

Guess what, when you are a parent, you are also your childs advocate.

You think I am bullying the school for advocating for my child.

What a surprise.

You're advocating for your child? I thought you were advocating for the third child.

But anyhoo, for all you know your kid did make it up. From the school's perspective there's no telling what happened, so there's no reason to go after them.

You just called the kid a "monster" which is bullyish, and apparently talk about the kid behind his back.

You're supposed to be a grown up, not your kid's constant "advocate."

make it up.

She witnessed a nasty incident and told me. I could not ignore this and so I reported it to the schools principal.

I am always going to be my childrens advocate.

And as for "talking about the kid behind his back..." Give it a rest. I have had you attack me so often on this site that I pretty much know its coming. I'll bet you were quite the bully back in the day.

that if somebody doesn't stop a bully when they are young, they will continue to bully all their life.

if you think that's equal...

well you're a lost cause anyway. you don't even take bullying seriously. :eyes:

Always amusing to read...

I vaguely remember that person. And yeah, I remember non-stop grumpiness.

:puke:

without coming home bloody, books and papers trashed, vomiting in the morning because he knew what was coming, 'bullying the school', you have vacuum between your ears.

The school disregarded not only their own policy, but the written advice of their own counsel in the matter. We found that out on discovery.



I suppose you've never stood up for your rights, when wronged, and just let people piss all over you.

You are a saint.

why anybody is listening to your thoughts on this at this point for any purpose other than sheer entertainment is beyond me.

:rant:

Taunting people?

Stupidest post in the entire thread! :applause:

:shrug:

:grr:

What expert advice do you have for the victim? Suck it up and be a man?

Sheesh.

:(

the bully needs some punishment as a consequence for what he did and the victim needs justice.

The Bullies are hardly ever good leaders for the Masses...they are exploitors and selfish peeps...

Schools must have anti Bully programs to educate all about them Bullies and their TRAITS....

a thing called "Peacebuilders" - There is an assembly every Monday addressing this very issue.

http://www.peacebuilders.com/

peacable school, just going through the motions.

When a school counselor tells her that this is the end of the matter, teach her to say "No, it isn't" and follow it up the chain of command.

When the bully comes after her, teach her to stand her ground - let the bully swing the first punch, but teach her to throw the last.

I feel so sorry for you, your daughter, and that little boy. I hope he can get past this.

I inform them that I am forced to do their job. Loudly. Then, I proceed to do so. They almost always will do their jobs then. Out of fear that the repercussions are on their worthless heads. I have fought for years against bullies in school. I fought maybe two of three times a week. Affected my education. NOW, if you are the beat up, if you lift a hand to protect your face, youare too expelled or suspended. I gave the same worthless speech to the vice principle when he refused to help me to protect myself. He didnt approve. Lifted me up by the neck. Who cares. Push on. They are cowards. You are tough.

That's a hard thing for an 8-year-old to wrap their brain around, but it would be a nice teachable moment to pull out of this: QUESTION AUTHORITY!

A letter, on real paper, sent by certified mail, return receipt requested, to the Superintendent.

You should set out all the facts, all the communications, and the handling by the school. You should copy local media with the letter, if you think you're up to making it a public matter. This kind of matter could easily draw TV news coverage. It would depend on what the mother of the boy and the boy want done, however. I wouldn't want to make them the object of it unless they agreed it needed attention and wanted you to do so.

This is a tragic story, and the tragedy is that the school abused your daughter and the little boy by their handling. The way bullying is allowed in schools is repulsive, and too often, there is a stated policy against it that is simply a paper cover.

Maybe. I wonder if the bully's parents give the school money for things.

I am not ever going to use the media --- The kid who was bullied would be horrified. My daughter would be horrified. I hate cameras.

She came home telling me (in her quite way)that while in PE, the teacher was demonstrating how to jump rope. When they called a kid up there to demonstrate-she said that she thought the child was deaf (child had white hair and blue eyes per daughter so I thought that could be possible)and didn't hear what the teacher said and everyone laughed at the girl when she tried to jump. I ask her what did she do after that. Her answer made me fell so small. "I went over there to try to be her friend, but I couldn't find her". At that point I knew how upset it made her.

The next day I called the Principal (turned out to be my sister's kinder teacher) and told her her about the incident and if she could discreetly check into it. To her credit, she interviewed my daughter and got her side of the story, talked to the other child, and talked to the teacher, talked to my daughter again and then called me.

It seems that the teacher was telling the kids how and how not to use a jump rope and was demonstrating it comically. The child she called up was new to the school and coming from Denmark spoke little English. The Principal said that even though nothing was meant by this, if my daughter perceived it the way she did, other kids could have too, so she made the teacher aware of the perception (she really was a good PE teacher), and talked to both children, esp taking the time to explain every thing to my daughter.

She then called me to thank me for calling it in and complimenting my daughter for being empathetic and standing up for someone that she felt was being teased.

Flash forward to the 8th grade and she is a new student in a new school. She sees a tall 7th grader boy being verbally abusive to a small 6th grade girl. She physically inserts her self between the 2 and tells the boy if he wants to pick on someone his size, she'll be happy to kick his ass for him (he is twice her size). Word spreads and she is a hero to the 6th graders. Another time at lunch, she see two boys tossing a cinnamon roll belonging to SpEd child back and forth, not letting the child eat the opened package. By the time she got over there to help him, the bell had rang, but not before she shamed those two kids into apologizing to the other child. She gave the other child a dollar so he could get a treat the next day and assured him that he could sit by her if some one bothered him again. Word spread, she's a hero to the kids in SpEd and friends in her class offer to replace her dollar.

Most of us are not born with empathy, it has to be learned. If it isn't learned as children -it is seldom learned in adulthood (as evidenced by our society). I feel sorry for the bully-what lessons are his parents teaching him. I always took my daughter with me when I did charitable deeds and she was encouraged to do her part and had a generous spirit to begin with. She was encouraged early to stand up against bullies and I pity some one taking her on. It's not that she goes around looking to kick ass, but nothing gets her mad like someone bullying someone that can't defend themselves.

I am sorry your daughter and her friend were not treated better in this ordeal. Funny, these parent will say it's not his fault when he get further up in school. I hear that every day, my child did poorly because you were a bad teacher. I can see the kid having one or even 2 poor teachers, but when you are in the fifth grade, and all the teacher were 'bad' and had the same observations about your kid??????? Maybe the problem doesn't lie with the teachers.

Edited to add: don't let it drop. Take it up the next level. Also if he physically lays hand or your friend's child or yours, consider assualt charges (or let them know you will file). And I mean file them with the police. That generally wakes folks up. Maybe then the bully can get the treatment he needs or his parents will start parenting.

but I had a good egg to begin with. At 6 I never would have thought to go make friends with someone that was teased. She has taught me an awful lot about kindness and charity.

After 9-11 she wanted to donate (we carefully chose the Salvation Army). I told her I would match her dollar for dollar. Imagine my shock when she emptied her entire saving account and I was on the hook for $200 (a tidy sum in single Mom terms). But the beans and rice tasted especially good that month.

And I'm not just talking about your daughter.

:)

And that's not nearly enough - so yes, take it up a level, and keeping taking it up until something is done.

Your daughter should never have been put in that position. Neither should that little boy.

And just where were the adults while this was actually happening?

Why the fuck did they have your daughter sit across from the bully? Now SHE is going to be the main target! ( way to go, fuckwits!! ) When I was in school, and something like this happened you did NOT put the bully in the same room with a witness to the bullying...the bully was grilled, they fessed up to it, and were punished accordingly. This was Catholic grade school, mind you...they didn't fart around.

Weren't there any other witnesses to this?

The district claims to have a "zero tolerance policy" but in reality it is mostly a "zero response" thing.

One time three years ago, she got body checked into a wall in PE. While she laid there crying the boy that did it stood over her and laughed. I called the Superintendent and explained to him that this ONE time they got a free pass, but that if that kid laid hands on her again, the next incident was gonna bring a visit from the sheriff looking to charge somebody for Assault and Battery.

Did I remember to mention that the kid involved has a father on the school board?

:eyes:

Now, cut to the last couple years and I can tell you about the whole Relational Aggression thing that goes on. Mostly, at first, anyway, it was my kid coming home saying that one girl or another had made some crappy comment about her clothes--that something was ugly or uncool. After a while with THAT stupidity going on, it became about the parties that everyone but her was invited to. Usually it was a group of three or four girls at the root of it, but after a while I started hearing that the other kids were calling her a "geek" or a "nerd." Kids would bitch if they had to sit next to her at lunch.

I made a point of talking to her teacher about the social stuff and her teacher said that my kid was doing fine and seemed to have a lot of pals, and what a "smart!" girl she is. My kid came home from school one day telling me that her TEACHER (in class, mind you) told her to stop using "big words" and to (I am not making this up!) "speak English" because the other kids didn't understand her.

We hit meltdown and I got hold of the building Principal. I told him my kid was being bullied. He told me that he'd observed her and he didn't think there was anything going on--that maybe she was just too sensitive--but that he'd ask around and see if there was something he'd missed. In the meantime, other kids were telling me she's being bullied.

Finally, after a couple of months, my kid got slammed into a wall in PE (again, this is assault during a freaking CLASS) by a kid trying to take a ball away from her. He grabbed her by the arm and slammed her into a wall--and the PE teacher claims not to have seen anything. He got involved because AFTER she got up off the floor she went after the boy that had slammed her into a wall, and that kid "told" on her.

I confronted that Principal in the aftermath. At that point, the Principal tells me that he'd asked around and that he knew she was being called a "geek" or a "nerd" but that he didn't think that was such a big deal because he'd been called that when HE was a kid. The boy got disciplined--they called his parents--and he wrote her a note of apology. End of story.

She is out of that building and off to the Jr High this next year. We plan to schedule a meeting with that Principal and we plan to demand a counselor be made available to our kid next year. We also have made plans that if needed we will pull her out of the district and home school her.

I also have signed us both up for a personal defense class taught by female law enforcement officers this summer.

Schools are nothing more than prisons to warehouse kids and the sociopathic behaviors you observe in hardened criminals is not terribly far from what is going on in a lot of kids' lives every day.


Laura

"... maybe she was just too sensitive--but that he'd ask around and see if there was something he'd missed. In the meantime, other kids were telling me she's being bullied."

I was bullied as a kid and everyone told me that I was too sensitive. I was shoved, stuffed into a trash can head first, slapped, threatened, made fun of and when I would come home in tears I was too sensitive.

I showed them and grew up to be fabulous. :)

Hey,it's never too early to learn life's lessons.

Not really kidding with this. My daughter is just a little older than yours. This past school year she told of a kid in her classroom who was teased relentlessly because of his stuttering. She says she's stuck up for him. I'm proud of her. But if push comes to shove and she expects the school to actually help with the situation, come on.

They're in the business of smoothing out ruffled feathers. They did their bit with you, they covered their ass. Next case.

It's a teaching moment and like I said, it's never too early to learn.

If we teach kids to be apathetic in the face of wrong, the world will only get worse.

I will never teach my kids to be okay with justice. I will never tell them to "get use to it". I will tell them that it happens a lot and that they should fight against it whenever they can.

Maybe I didn't make it clear. My kid knows that justice is never surrendered peacefully.

Or pessimistic.

I believe in being realistic. But I'm also an optimist. You can be both. It just takes a lot of work.

reached the level of pessimism that your post indicates you have.

I can not allow my daughter to feel that there is no justice - (even though apparently we do not punish people who torture.)

The school is in charge of my children from 7:30 AM to 2:00 each day - I expect them to do their job which in part is to keep our kids safe.

i don't have kids so maybe this is a dumb question but i thought that the school had to notify parent if their kids were taken out of class (regardless of the situation) i am a little concerned - about the way the situation was handled and by the lack of interaction with the parents (maybe i am misunderstanding something though?)

and believe me, I have complained that they did this without calling me.

Geez, learned helplessness isn't something I would want my child to learn.

This is an outrage. I can keenly feel the sense these kids must have of justice denied.

Letting bullying go unchallenged is never the way to go. Good luck.

He needs to be stopped. Nothing good can come of his not learning that actions have consequences.

...with the press in attendance. Or better yet CALL the press in advance and tell them you are going to speak out. Say that glossing over bullying is unacceptable in your community and get some other parents to support you.

Bring your daughter with you so she can see you make a stand.

Another thing you could do is to help YOUR DAUGHTER to start a no-bullying movement in her school or the community. Don't name any names, just start a kids campaign.

call the superintendent of schools, the parents of this poor child should call the superintendent of schools, bypass the school, they can't do anything about it. tell every parent at that school that will listen about what happened, you may be amazed at how many more kids this brat has victimized, then all of the victims and their parents show up at the next school board meeting and let them hear all about it and demand a solution, it will end up in the paper and the public will be aware the school won't help these poor children and it can't be pushed under the rug. That poor little boy, oh man this just ticks me off.

They are obviously incompetent, insensitive morans, every last one of them, and you ought to declare war. Get a lawyer, speak at the next board meeting, and organize peaceful demonstrations outside the school building every morning and afternoon.

Call all the local tv stations; they'll be glad for more sensational drama to feed the public.

Maybe you can get a bunch of them fired; it's worth a try, anyway. Or, perhaps you can get a deposit to your daughter's college fund if you sue them for destroying her trust in the system.

In times like these, everybody needs a target, and it looks like this will serve for many. It's certainly doing so for those responding to your thread.

I'm sure that declaring war on the local school and serving up a menu of anger, demands, blame, and threat will whip them right into line. They'll probably waterboard the bully to make sure everyone gets their pound of flesh.

Besides, that will teach him not to bully, and his parents to do a better job. It will teach the school to remember that everything any student does is always their fault, and they will suddenly stop wasting public dollars drinking and playing cards in the staff lounge, and set up an on-site gitmo for students with poor social development.

That's the way it works, right?

I don't think the poster was saying ANY such thing. You just had to be an ass because it's what-fun? Because you hate whiny parents? Obviously you lack empathy and think the poster is crazy and overreacting for feeling what she feels-because damn it, why on a LIBERAL board-at least it was before Obama became president but goddamn I do digress-caring about a handicapped kid was you known-important.

The story wasn't EVEN about the kid of the poster.Which reminds me why the internet is perfect for bullying. HALF of the shit on DU is nothing but bullying really, put downs, snide remarks, and all of it just to make the snide one feel superior. BASTA!

I was just getting in line with all of the other responses. Those are okay and mine is not?

No, it wasn't "fun." It's just another bash the school fest, and it complements this article, which was in my inbox when I got home from school today:

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090615/goldstein

And this one, from 2 days ago, pointing out that the "stimulus" money is not to help keep schools operating, but to fund the next big privatization push:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iQ72cmvb2846meWCIAJArK1w2HmAD98FJOV00

42 teachers in my district lost their jobs last week. A mass of them got transferred, without warning, today. We took a pay cut to stay open this year, we're taking a heavier cut next year, along with increased hours, class size, and duties, and no prep.

Schools...not just mine, not just my district, not just my state, are in a state of crisis right now.

We're not only dealing with a budget implosion, along with the threat of maintaining AYP no matter how many days are cut out of the school year, how much support disappears, how many more students are crammed into our class loads, how many more extra duties we are saddled with next year; we're dealing with an energized force for further destructive policies and privatization in the form of merit pay and charter schools.

Of course, I'm sure it's all our fault. It's certainly all our fault that, without evidence beyond conflicting stories, that justice is not achieved.

We don't turn kids away because they are bullies. That's against the law. What we can legally do to "punish" a bully is extremely limited. What we can do to "change" a bully is, as well.

That doesn't mean that schools don't do anything. It's illegal and unethical for an administrator to give information about student discipline to someone other than the student's guardian. It's also not okay to give one parent information about conversations with any other parent.

It's true that I'm sick to death of armchair educators who are sure they know more about the ed code than the people who are directed by it.

I'm sick of the rush to judgment from those who wouldn't last a week in my classroom, from those I would't trust to manage any conflict erupting between my students.

One parent absolutely does not, and will not, have all the information about what was done "to" or "with" or "about" an offending student. It may look like nothing, because dealing with an individual student is not a public forum. Minors. Privacy. They go together.l

It's true that I don't think declaring war on the school, the admin, and the board is the way to change that bully's behavior, or to achieve justice for the victim. It's true that the plethora of responses calling for action against the school offends me.

It's Friday. I've spent the week consoling colleagues who've lost their jobs, collaborating with others trying to figure out how we're going to do the same job, or better, with fewer days, fewer resources, and many more students next year; consoling one student, celebrating with another, listening to several who need to be heard, tutoring a crowd at lunch, calling parents, meeting parents after school, and keeping the peace, and the focus and interest, going in the classroom when my students just want to be "done" for the summer.

On top of managing a family health crisis at home, which involved getting up every two hours all night long all week long.

And I managed to smile at my students when I dismissed them. I came home, logged on, and ran smack into another "war on schools" thread.

No, I wasn't focused on the victim. Of course I empathize; I spend all day, every working day, working with kids who have a wide variety of problems, issues, and needs. I also work with bullies. It's part of the job. Bullying isn't a school problem. It's a societal problem. When our culture doesn't glorify bullies, when put downs, when "winning" an argument, when finding and making "enemies" so there will be targets for attacks, for derision, name-calling, bashing, and chest-beating over is not longer a priority, when all those who oppose bullying start "being" the kind of person they want to see WHEN IT COUNTS, when faced with opposition, then the rampant bullying at school will diminish.

Perhaps the first place to start might be this thread.

Empathy doesn't require anyone to judge or place blame.

attempting to do that down thread. Those posts offended me as well.

But the OP didn't do that.

Sorry top hear your life is tough lately, I hope things get better for you.

That's why they're getting picked on, not because we're school bashing.

I haven't read through any of the responses to this thread since I posted my response. I did read ONE of those responses that nailed the error on the school's part, and offered a constructive way to address issues like these.

The rest? I didn't read any real solutions to school bullying. Just a gratuitous attack-fest resembling the bullying that the attackers purport to be outraged about.

I don't see much support for actual positive action on the larger issues: bullying, and what schools can do to minimize it, and to reach and change the the bully and the behavior. I just see a rush to attack with all of the usual school-bashing rhetoric.

I don't think all of the suggestions for venting rage on the principal or the school board in the responses are likely to gain anything positive for the victim, for the OP and daughter, and they aren't likely to affect the bully much, either.

It just feeds the anti-school mob mentality that is prevalent in American Society, and, yes, in the Democratic Party and here on DU.

But I'm just someone who actually works at a school every day, spends my career with other people's children, and has had to manage student conflict, angry parents, and deal with broken kids who are the way they are for reasons that schools are not equipped to address. We make mistakes. There are often times on campus that I'm unhappy with an admin's response to major behavior problems.

Even when I'm unhappy, and I disagree, though, I understand the larger picture.

for smiling at your students after a week like this.
I can't imagine that you fully appreciate yourself for the good that you do with those smiles.
They ripple out through that child's life and into the lives of others for the rest of their lives.
I remember when my son had a teacher that smiled at the kids a lot.
It made our whole family better.

:hug:

Geez, you wasted that many letters. You'll never get those sentences back, you know.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Take this fight as far as you can. I've been there, my girls are approaching 40 now and one has actually written a screenplay about her incident like this. These people are employees, YOU are paying their salary and they better damn well be held accountable. You will get nowhere talking to the school this happened in. You can write letters to be put in the files of the employees responsible but realistically it will have no effect if they are tenured. Go high and don't give up, this is where your daughter and her friend will learn justice. You must make it happen. This bully is where Cheney started. Somebody has to intervene and 30 years later it is still one of the high points of my life. GO get em.

What should California Queen fight for? The expulsion of an 8 year old bully? The firing of an administrator? A million dollar settlement? A screen play in 30 years?

From what I read, it sounds like a poorly handled incident. Have you, ever in your entire work life handled anything poorly ever? Or are you speaking from a point of perfection?

I would hope that she talk with whoever was responsible for the situation and help them figure out a more positive way to deal with similar situations in the future.

If she's in court for half a year to two years she will miss a lot of growing up time with her daughter.

Some people have no perspective, but my guess is that QueenofCalif does.

I would hope that this child can get some help so he is not an asshole all his life. I don’t blame the kid. At 8 you are a reflection of your parents and your experiences thus far. I don’t advocate his expulsion, he has enough problems already, what he needs is a TEACHER to show him the value of compassion, something he is obviously not getting at home, and thus it becomes a SCHOOL problem. Yet another school problem where teachers are expected to parent for those who have no fucking idea what they are doing. Yes, it was handled poorly by a staff of people who are either too young or too inexperienced or just are following some kind of psychological program they don’t understand and they fucked up big time here and if you can’t see that QueenofCalif‘s child needs to experience some JUSTICE right now, then I can’t help you. THIS is where she learns what the world is and the LAST thing she needs is to feel is she needs to SHUT UP.

I’m not advocating the firing of anyone, I’m not advocating a million dollar settlement. This is not what happened in my case. What happened is that the child who was in trouble, who was making my child’s life miserable, turned out to be a child who was being sexually and physically abused and IF I hadn’t fought this, IF I hadn’t brought attention to this, he would probably NEVER have gotten the help he got to deal with his aggression issues. Nobody was parenting him so I did, he became a part of my family. Yeah, I’ve handled lots of things poorly, I am far from perfect, but I have lots of kids who I didn’t give birth to who call me on Mother’s Day.

My daughter’s screenplay was a writing exercise that began in film school. It grew out of an assignment at USC when they were asked to write about conflict. She HATED him, she loved him, he was and is her good friend to this day, but he did not come out as gay until he was 19. He was not her boyfriend (most of the time), he was her dear friend, but until she went away to college she thought it might be more, so it was HER conflict, she got over it, is married now, has 2 kids & is in medical school and they are now just siblings.

Nobody made money in this fight. I took it as far as I could w/o litigation, but in the process of this fight much was learned by school staff and yes I did take it as far as the school board, because it was the only way that the school district would listen and take action. This boy was being sexually abused at home, he was also being sexually abused by a teacher, who was also abusing 2 other kids and who was eventually fired by the school district because I pursued it. I know that this story is not likely representative of this case with QueenofCalif, but whenever your gut as a parent says that something is really fucked up and wrong, you really need to follow it through.

Last night was the opening of a film festival for gay films, my husband and I were there, as we both work in the industry and our "gay son" was there with yet another “problem child” in my daughter’s life, a girl who has been gay, is not now gay, is married to a man now, lives literally blocks away from my daughter now and is still a good friend of hers. She is a psychologist but she was so competitive with my daughter I wanted to strangle her for years, but also always admired her. We are all Facebook friends. ( Insert Smiley face here-guess that's an option but at 60 I'm too old to figure this shit out) HE refers to me as his second mom. I adore him, he is gay, it was pretty obvious by the time he was 10, I just couldn't figure out how to tell her that. I also knew his partner when they were all in theater in HS. IF I had not done what I did, when I did, he would have been lost, he and I both could agree with that. SHE and I laughed at the fact that the last time both of us had been at that theater was when they were all in 8th grade & I took them to see Rocky Horror Picture Show. I don’t regret anything. No kid is hopeless, they just need mentors.

I was an abused child, I raised my girls from birth to be compassionate, I don’t know what QueenofCalif’s history is, but clearly she has raised a child in a compassionate home and compassion is not an easy road for a child in today’s world.

Don’t imagine QueenofCalif is going to miss a beat as a Mom. She is clearly aware of the injustices here and no doubt will do what she needs to do.

And I didn't imagine QueenofCalif will miss a beat. She seems very compassionate which is of course where her daughter gets her compassion from.

However, I misread your compassion, both for the bully and for the people who work in the school.

I apologize and hope you will forgive me. Thanks for taking the time to explain. This is such a poor medium for understanding beyond the superficial level sometimes.

Schools simply don't care. The only way to stop a bully is to beat the shit out of him, the school will do nothing about it. Anyone who tells you that there is a "zero-tolerance policy for bullying" is a liar with absolutely no exception whatsoever. Is it any wonder that people defend torture when acts of torture are committed daily in our schools?

you were in a school?

I was in one yesterday. I have 3 school age kids, and I think our school does a great job, for the most part.

Schools do care. So do the people who work in schools.

You are misguided and misinformed, and i hope you actually go spend some time in a school and find out.

If I ever have children I will make sure they are homeschooled.

My kids really like their teachers and I do to. But if I didn't and they didn't i would do something about it, like switch teachers or schools.

Where were your parents? Why didn't they home school you or intervene on your behalf?

They couldn't homeschool because we weren't a very well off family, both had to work over 8 hours a day and I was a typical latch-key kid.

through his 3rd grade year (he's finished his freshman yr. at MTSU), but after many conversations over many months he finally broke down and told us that he was being bullied and that his teacher knew, but wouldn't stop it. He told us that the kid who was bullying him actually picked him up by the neck in the classroom and threw him on the floor. His 'teacher' made no referral of the kid to the office, actually did nothing. She admitted as much to my face, and that was the only time that I've ever had nasty language directed to a 'teacher'.

My husband was in the assistant principal's office at 6:45 am, and warned that I would be in later. I was. I told the principal that I knew that this particular teacher had been transferred into that school because she had problems at another school and that my son's biggest fear was that he'd be suspended from school if he defended himself. And I explained that if the teacher wouldn't step in that I'd spent the evening telling my son to forget about school policy, and using a pillow I had spent the evening teaching my son how to REALLY hurt his tormentor, and that if the principal wouldn't step in, then I would love to have 15 minutes on the wall that the 'teacher' made my son stand on for forgetting to have papers signed, but nothing for the violent behavior of this kid that the 'teacher' witnessed.

I've always told my boys not to start a fight, but they can defend themselves. The middle child did just that with a teacher's kid who thought that he could get away with anything because his Mom was a teacher in that school. The kid was way too frequently slamming a locker door into my son's head and laughing about it and thought that it was funny. My son tried talking to him, but reached a point a few weeks in and picked the kid up by the throat and slammed him into the lockers, and said "cut it out". Unfortunately for the teacher's son, there were many witnesses to all of these events, and the assistant principal told her, "the kid had enough from your son and defended himself."

Rambling, rambling, but I'm merely trying to state that bullying is a problem in schools and it should be dealt with better than it is. :hug: to your daughter, you, and the victim.

daughter's feelings now..but, she did do the right thing and it's bound to help her down the road.

Sounds like it needs to be taken to a higher level since they didn't do what they told you they would.

my friends child was being bullied (his parents are a lesbian couple).
The school kept violating their own policy on bullying so that they didn't protect him.

The school district now has to pay for his private education.

you'd think that 2 people's corroborating testimony would outweigh one person's contradicting testimony.

Take it to the Superintendent AND the School Board.

and don't you believe for a second we're not still in it.

I learned it about the same age... and I was the one bullied. You see I ended up going to the school psychologist because there was something wrong with me.

Can't say I blame her, and you can try going higher in the food chain, won't do a thing to change it.

Give her a hug and tell her that fighting the good fight needs to be fought on principle but that doing the right thing is actually rarely rewarded. I still do it, but don't expect any rewards.

I went through that experience continually from first grade. That's the way schools operate in the United States.

My suggestion: have your daughter take self-defense classes, and teach her the difference between reasonable use of self-defense and bullying so SHE doesn't become a bully. That way, when she finally forces the bully's testicles to go back inside his body, she'll be legally protected.

If my parents had let me take self-defense, I might have had a less miserable and fearful childhood.

But you should NEVER expect justice from teachers or school administrators. They don't give a damn about students, only about clinging to their phony-baloney jobs.

responsibility seriously enough to protect you?

Are they just like the teachers?

They were of a generation that had total confidence in them. The fools.

And it was the University City, Missouri school district. A fairly well-off suburb of St. Louis, next to Washington University, largely Jewish and upper middle-class. A school district considered, by educators of the time, to be a "progressive" and "vitally experimental" district. Which meant that the teachers simply sat by and allowed the punks and the lunatics to do whatever the hell they wanted to, to kids who couldn't fight.

Oh, and of course, to fight back and try to defend yourself (something a weak pussy like me could never do properly) got lectures about how "violence is never the solution." Well, it wasn't for me, but it sure was for the football players and thugs.

And yes, that has become the standard for education in the United States.

It would have made me mad enough to burn down the school. Unfortunately, some New Left kids did it before I could get up the nerve, and in that year I was one of fifteen kids in a classroom that were caught on the upper floors, as an auditorium on the lower levels burned.

ON EDIT: Please don't tell me "get help." I have help. I could have used help when I was sixteen. It's way the hell too late. My only comfort is that I believe most of those punks are being raped in prison or died early from drug abuse.

They have some very good and caring teachers.

When i was in High School, I had some great teachers. But i didn't like to have to go to school. So I often went to the classes I liked and often blew off the other ones.

So how do you know that your experience has become "...the standard for education in the United States."

i know quite a few high school kids, and that's not what they are saying. Of course, I only know what I know. But I'm wondering how you know what you know?

I'm waiting for the next one. Or, given the despair now crossing the land, the many Columbines to come. And I don't see the Columbine incident as anything resulting from sin, like the Christians do. I see it as oppressed and abused people getting one final chance at retribution and justice against the bastards that rule the cruel world of high school.

In fact, I suspect we'll be seeing a lot of adults applying the lessons of Columbine to the bankers, bosses and corporate heads that have bespoiled the world outside high school. Because, as many people have observed, high school never ends.

But that doesn't make it the norm across the land. It's exactly the uniqueness of Columbine that accounts for it's shock value and it's recognizability.

Have you spent much time in foreign countries where there is really deep poverty and inequity?

Billions of people don't get to go to any high school, even a bad one.

They all hate us. They all want to kill us. And they aren't even from our own high schools. They simply embody pure, insane hatred. They have reasons to hate us, which is NOT insane, given the way we've been acting. But they apply their hatred to all of us, from infants to the aged.

It's that BS that is the ultimate source of my lack of respect for the resident Naive Pacifists here on DU.

One thuggish kid punched me in the eye, slashing my left cornea and giving me permanent astigmatism. I was in pain for days, every time my eye twitched. And some New Left kid said "That's what you get for fighting."

As for the worst humiliation, which was damn near a sexual assault by a football player, I couldn't even report it. He was black. Blacks could do no harm in the eyes of the school, and reporting that he rubbed his butt against my crotch in a hallway would make me a racist.

Let me say right now that I am not a racist. But the guy's skin color - plus the fact that he was an athlete and a football player - made him invulnerable to any reports of bad behavior. I never told anyone, not even my parents while they were alive.

And if you don't believe that same injustice is going on right now, to some other kids who can't or won't fight, in high schools across the nation, then you're as deluded as that New Left kid was.

:grr:

If they tried to discipline the bully the parents will rant to the school and/or school board that their "perfect little angel" could never do such a thing and that he is being "unfairly targeted" and whatnot BS and having such parents pissed off is not good for their job security.

Both to your child and this little boy. I got so upset reading what you wrote, that I want say anything else, as it would detract from the thread and probably be deleted anyway. Just damn. I'll stop there.

Write a LTTE in the local paper. Name the school, tell the story.

And kudos to your daughter for doing the right thing. Please tell her I am proud of her too.
Although I am sure she is feeling she just lost to the bad guys and doing the right thing is worse than doing nothing.

The school system is full of pussies now. The administrators all are terrified of shitty parents screaming and complaining to the school board about the treatment of their little angel who would never do anything wrong. I see it all the time. And I think there is no hope of things getting better.

For myself, I have told my son he will never get in trouble at home for using violence against bullies no matter what the school says.The school won't protect him or anybody else. And I try to protect him from bad situations.

The parents of the bullies vote for the school board and if they get pissed of people might be out of a job, so the parents of the bullies get sucked up to.

I hope you pursue this further and show your daughter that there is indeed justice. At her school at least. Certainly not in this country where our current Administration will not prosecute the war crimes of the previous Administration.

That's so sad all the way around. I can't even imagine the pain a parent of a handicapped child who is teased in school must experience, and how they have to cope with balancing the grief they feel for their child vs the rage they surely feel toward the shit stains making life even harder on such an already disadvantaged child.

Maybe the upshot is, and this is what happened with me as a kid, is that she's now gotten her first in what will likely be many encounters involving injustice, hypocrisy, indifference and general institutional bullshit in school and the workplace, so it'll serve to help offer her an early heads-up in understanding people, their social dynamics, and what is often the reality of the situation vs the propagandistic nonsense. One begins fighting back early on and one tends to never stop ...considering how so few do, that's an essential quality.

That is your problem.

These people are teachers. They can barely remember how to tie their shoes when they are not off screwing their students.

The best thing to do is to tell your kid to shut up and by no means ever be left alone with a teacher or other adult at the school.

So they believe the bully and not your daughter? They should explain why!

Kudos to you and to your daughter!!!

the funny thing is that I am certain that they do believe my daughter. She has never been in trouble in school and is known as the responsible kid --- The school is small -- only about 270 kids and so it is easy to remember most of the children-

The bully/kid in question has a history of problems. He is socially far behind his peers and is mean to anyone who appears different or weaker- He has tried to bully my son who is a year older but my daughter steps in and shields her brother - (my son is an Asperger child and so he has no defensive skills) My son is not in a special class but is mainstreamed - most of the kids really like him because of his sweet nature and he is exceptionally bright - BUT he is "different" in that he acts sort of unusual. So, the bully sees this and takes advantage of the situation. I actually feel sorry for the kid - (the bully) - He needs help but his parents are in denial. They see no differences in the way he treats people - It's hard to even grasp how anyone could NOT see that this kid is going to become a BIG problem as he matures. I know it sounds weird but I would not doubt if he became a serial killer - He has this odd, flat stare and he is a chameleon - taking on a fake smile when in the presence of an adult - he "acts" as if he has concern but when he thinks no one is watching his demeanor changes significantly. Oh... He is in my daughters class. And.... The teacher agrees with me about the serial killer thing...

So they believe my daughter but they have this insane idea that the bully has to admit his wrongdoing....

His parents and the school system are partners in creating a monster here.

But I just saw this thread, and one thing popped into my head.

First let me preface by saying that IMO, the school mishandled this whole situation. Bless you and your child for being so compassionate to this child and his family.

Did the administrators interview any witnesses? You say that this occurred during recess. Bullies bully for an audience generally, and his cronies had to have been around.

I work in a middle school. We have a mediation program, which is what this sounds like happened to your daughter. But mediation programs are only for situations which do NOT HAVE DISCIPLINARY consequences. Bullying definitely would NOT fall under the latter category.

I was taught many years ago by a very wise administrator how to handle a situation where no child wants to be responsible for "ratting" on another. Have each one of them, separately, write a description of the event. Given the age of your daughter and the others, it could by done verbally and written down by an adult, if necessary. Kids in general will spill the beans when they don't have to do it in front of the guilty party, or seem like the person who told in the eyes of their peers.

You and your daughter have my heart-felt sympathies. I'm so sorry that this one experience has so deeply affected your daughters view of justice, all at the hands of piss poor administrators.

And we think that adults have all the nastiness. Kids can be so incredibly mean. Unfortunately, this kid has now been massively reinforced on his bullying and your kid and the picked on kid have learned early about injustice.

Cudos to your daughter for having empathy for others. Cudos to you for supporting your daughter and not giving up.

My wife of 26 years is the type of teacher that any parent would want in front of their children. 12 years in front of 6th graders and 13 years now teaching pre-schoolers.

This is how she would have handled it and she says she has not had one student (even the 6th graders) not cave to admitting the truth.

The accused bully should have been taken into private room by the principle along with another adult. The principle should have just asked this question. "Would you like to explain the incident that occurred on the playground this morning concerning 'name'?". The child isn't accused of anything but an incident happening. They child generally feels that the other adult in the room is the witness although they generally aren't. They are there just to be a witness to the confession. "Most" children will assume that they were seen by this other adult. Most children will then either have to start lying immediately and be very uncomfortable with not knowing how much of the truth the "witness" actually knows or tell the truth. More often than not they start spilling the beans.

She also said under NO circumstances should the bully be able to face his accusers unless it is to apologize. It is apparent from your letter that the bully lacks some basic emotions like empathy and compassion and this can't be the first time his teachers would have had problems, giving your child and the victim even more credibility.

Any educator that has been in the profession any length of time would know that kids don't lie about a bully. They know they risk becoming the target of the bullying even more by reporting it. It is a shame that this principle didn't see this. Or if she did understand this fact she was trying to minimize the event and hoping it would go away and they wouldn't have to discipline the child.

Some more advice from my wife... don't make this a public event. It only would make life at the school more difficult for your child and the child being bullied.

And for those that criticized all teachers and all schools... Just shut up. It is obvious you had some bad experiences in school. We all do but it doesn't make the vast majority of great teachers out there all evil. Everyone makes mistakes as this principle seemed to have made in this case. There are weak employees in every profession at every level. It is up to the parents to continue to support their children when they know they are correct and to support the teachers for the same reasons.

This is a great learning experience for the children involved and for the parents as well. Proceed with a level head and you will get satisfaction on many levels.

Keep everyone posted on the updates.

Peace

...who had a BRAIN TUMOR. If she hadn't intervened when she did, the kids could have killed the girl. Guess who got reprimanded? When I came to get her at school, my daughter was in tears. Within earshot of the dickhead jackass that sent her home, I said, "Don't worry. You did the right thing."

I have stopped trying to figure out the thought processes of school administrators.

The people that most want to be in positions of power are exactly the people who shouldn't be allowed anywhere near such positions.

That is a wonderful, wonderful joke!

(Okay, to be fair, I had one utterly fantastic principal when in junior high - knew every student by name and face, had a good idea of extracurricular situations, and I swear to this day he was telepathic as regards catching people doing stuff - which of course meant he retired within a year of my meeting him. Argh.)

I was on crutches in first grade. My right leg was held up in a harness to keep from using it while my hipbones hardened up (leg perth-ese disease?)

So the 'authorities' though for my safety it would be good to put me in the back of the girls line. Each morning I would get bullied on that line every god damned day. It would have been easier on me if they used a goddamned neon sign, fer chrissakes!

It wasn't that traumatic for me. I was just amazed that kids could be so mean to a kid on crutches! Episodes like this during my youth lead me to develop a healthy skepticism for those 'in authority' could be pretty damn stupid. I was pretty loathe to trust any authority figure in a public school setting after all this.

I empathize with your situation! It's good to know life is not fair, but to have such harsh lessons so young is not the most fun thing for a kid to go through!

-90% jimmy

Leave no stone unturned when it comes to advocating with your daughter and her friend. I agree with the many posters who gave you those avenues.

Are you keeping a journal of what's happened so far? Document every phone call, e-mail letter, personal contacts, and outcome. This may help you with any legal proceedings.

I am saddened to read the story and mad the school did nothing to intervene.

:hug:

I'm as liberal as they come, but I don't understand coddling people who clearly need discipline, or some sort of intervention at least.

I was an assistant for a high school teacher for a year. One of her classes had a group of hooligan girls who often went out of their way to harass other kids in the class, skipped classes and showed up late for classes constantly, etc.

One day, the teacher allowed these girls to "do some studying" in one of the side rooms, which was clean before they went in. When class was over and everyone left, the teacher and I discovered that the side room had been vandalized...there was garbage all over the floor, graffiti had been scrawled onto the walls with permanent markers, and some gouges were put into the door with a blunt object.

The teacher just shrugged and got a broom to clean up the mess. Well, I thought this unacceptable and so I wrote a report on the girls to the assistant principal.

A few days later, the assistant principal called the teacher and I down to his office, where the girls were allowed to "confront" me with my "false accusations." It was as though *I* was the one put on trial, and had to "prove" the claims in my report. I had to sit and listen while the girls "had their say" (you see, they had equal rights as the teachers, according to the assistant principal), which was basically to call me a liar. In the end, the assistant principal decided that since there were no witnesses to the vandalism, the girls could get off scot-free. The teacher spent several days scrubbing the graffiti off the walls of that room.

Oh, and the kicker? The teacher fired me a few months later because I "wasn't helping enough with student discipline."

(On edit: this is not a teacher-bashing post. My father was a public school teacher for 20 years and I think that 99% of public school teachers are fantastic people.)

Young bullies (and I'm talking about pre-teens) are not interested in talking, guilt, or imaginary ramifications. They either get their little asses kicked by their peers, or they continue. It's been that way since the dawn of time.

Do you know some adult male who is mean, abusive, and carries the air of physical threats? Odds are 10:1 that he never had his butt thoroughly kicked before he left the eighth grade.

The young girl and her friend (the victim) are in no position to do anything about this bully, but some little Galahad needs to call the little bastard's bluff and leave him bruised. The only thing the school can do is let it happen.

Sorry, but that's how boys sort it out.

sorry, but you obviously know nothing of the psychology of children

Schools are not dominated by dumbshits who think they "understand" child psychology. Nearly all of them are women or think like women. They have no idea how to handle boys, particularly normal, hyper-energy boys. Our kids are being doped up with all kinds of drugs to cope with the failures of "child psychology", but I'm the one who's clueless.

Good call.

If that opinion makes me evil in the minds of the naive fools that think all problems can be solved by talking I really don't give a shit.

The fact that so many people in this world view violence as a solution is a huge factor in why bullies act the way they do in the first place. Violently defending oneself very well may prevent the bully from bullying the individual, of course it does nothing to prevent them from bullying everyone else.
It is a band-aid solution that doesn't even begin to address the issue at hand.

Naive pacifist stupidity.

Please clarify.

There is nothing wrong with defending yourself. However, one kid fighting a bully doesn't do anything to address the issue of bullying as a whole. Way to ignore the real point of my post, though.

There are some individuals that cannot be helped by non-violent means. The sociopaths, the narcissists, the W-like vicious son of the local rich guy the school doesn't dare deal with lest they piss off Mommy and Daddy Moneybags.

i was being (mostly) verbally abused continually by a boy in junior high and early high school. we rode the bus together. he always was picking on me about something. i mostly did what i was told and tried to ignore him. it wasn't the "i like you but can't say it" kind of teasing--it was truly mean.

one day, while innocently standing there waiting for the bus, i was just about to step on the first stair to get on the bus, and he came and shoved me out of the way to get on first. i didn't fall down as he had intended, but instead snapped and slugged him in the back as he was going up the stairs. he turned and tried to kick me in the face--i blocked him with my notebook and he missed. he continued on to the bus, so did i.

he pretty much left me alone after that.

bullies will NOT leave you alone until you punch them a good one in the snot locker, ESPECIALLY if it is in front of the other kids.

you are 100% correct.

Had it been me, I would have been back on the phone the next morning ASAP, ask for the principal, set up a meeting with the bully and his parents, and my kid. When I don't get a satisfactory response, I keep going. But always calmly and firmly.

and making sure there were no bullies in her class. On the first day of school the kids show up to a nicely appointed and decorated room. Books on each desk, journals and workbooks in place ready to start the new year. In the corner was a wheel chair, crutches, ear plugs and an eye mask.

Each child was required to sign up for each of those items to be worn for one full school day sometime during the school year. They weren't allowed to remove the eye mask or the ear plugs on their assigned day, they couldn't get out of the wheel chair and they couldn't put down the crutches and run and play during recess. They had to commit to the entire day for four different days to learn what people with disabilities have to deal with on a daily basis.

Immediately the kids started signing up for the various "disabilities" thinking it would be fun. They soon learned it was hard work, not easy and certainly not fun. Each child ended up doing at least two of the challenges (more than half did all four) and every single kid was more empathic, kind and caring about their classmates. This was a small school and these kids finished out their elementary education with basically the same group from year to year. These kids were the nicest, most well behaved and much loved kids in the school. And no one got away with anything - in any class - with these kids around. My daughter and I once counted of the teachers that came out of that group. I think it was 12 kids are teachers today and I accredit to all to Ms. French.

The teacher? She was "let go" after her first year because she was dating a divorced man and this was small town Kentucky and a little tiny Catholic parochial school. She left town sometime that following summer. I often have regretted that I didn't take the time to tell her how much I admired and appreciated her before she left. (The parents weren't informed this teacher's contract was not renewed until start of the next year.)

Idiot school administrators don't care enough, and take his word, the word of an 8 year old, as fact.

Yup. Seems par for the course for American schools. You practically have to twist their arms to get them to do anything.

There are some good schools out there. Our school is very proactive regarding bullying, and addresses all cases immediately and meets out appropriate disciplinary actions.

that this school tries but they missed the mark in this case...

I am working of straightening this out --- I can hardly wait to see what b.s. they come up with though.

I am meeting with the school this week to voice my concerns -

I hope my husband can come with me since he is better than I am at rebutting stupid shit but his schedule makes it hard for him to take off of work.

The counselor who arranged this bull shit will be there - The principal will be there. I will be there.

I wish I could video tape the whole meeting.

If at all possible, get lawyered up before your meeting with these clowns. Someone who is not the least bit afraid of stopping any horseshit and saying see you in court.

the school.

The principal has been very good for the most part over her 4 years at the school. She handed the bully situation over to the counselor who then proceeded to fuck it up.

The principal should understand district policies but I know she didn't have a clue of how to answer my questions about this situation. She is not an evil person (however she is a Republican who voted for Bush and McCain) but she has been very understanding of some special circumstances involving our son - Our son is an Asperger's kid and he can be very difficult to deal with at times.

so I would not threaten to sue the school because I would be an ungrateful ass.

But I am not going to ignore the current situation with my daughter - I am hoping to make them see that their current method of dealing with bullying is STUPID.

The school doesn't want to call this little puke a liar because his parents will come down and defend little Johnny Reprobate with their last breath, probably threatening to sue the school the whole time. As a society, we are fucked that no one takes responsibility, or plays the "no fault" game.

That might sound like a right-wing or republican rant, but it is the truth.