I believe that an organization outside the Democratic Party may be needed to save the Democratic Par

That is take the party back from the corporatists.

The grass roots of the party do not control the party. Granted the grass roots elected Pres Obama, but he thanked us by dumping Dean in favor of Emanuel. In my opinion the DLC, DCCC, DSCC, and DNC all reek of corporatism.

The Party leaders chose Lieberman over the people’s choice Lamont and now they are backing Specter in lieu of any true Democratic challenger. This demonstrates to me that whoever is running the Democratic Party isn’t interested in grass roots choices, only maintaining the good ole boy corporatist status quo.

Thom Hartman says that we need to get into our local Democratic Party organizations and take over. I am working on that but it looks like a decade project. We haven’t the time. We need to unseat the Dino’s, but I don’t believe we can via the Party organization. Maybe an external organization like Moveon or PDA can raise the money to counter the huge sums offered by the corporations.

We need a liberal one too.

But first we need to finish killing the Republican Party.

So, if a democrat walks like a duck...quacks like a duck.......

Or, talks like a Repub & votes like a Repub....

We run a progressive candidate against them, and THROW them out of the party

change I can believe in.

Yes but how. The Party leaders will oppose such moves. Therefore we may need to organize outside the Party.

If the Grassroots took to collecting our OWN money, instead of shipping it directly to DSCC, DCCC, DLC, and all of the others, we could then direct it where we need to do so.

Keep grade cards on some of these wretches and pay them according to what they produce (hey, even Wall Street is based on commissions... How loud should our loyal Dems bitch about performance-based funding?) and replace them when they wander away from our needs and wishes. That might work.

One of my more inane goals in life is to become a right-wing talking head, get a lot of loyal followers, then start switching from RW to LW talking points and see if they come along or not.

Perhaps I should start on this and use the crazies for good?

dangerous to middle class values as a Democrat than a republiCon. Killing the republiCon party will only migrate more Specter's over into the Democratic Party. The corportists already have too much power.

"But first we need to finish killing the Republican Party."

Independents, Nadarites, Green, etc. I think it's a great idea.

find a good progressive peace candidate and then try to get s/o huge like moveon behind us. Then we win the IA primary. The CM will have to notice us if we are united and serious.

There isn't time to infiltrate the party. The dems are as good a repugs, many of them.

We need to go outside, unite and find a great candidate that will promote getting out of the ME. That will bring in many repugs as well.

Ås much as I want Dean, I think Feingold might be a great choice.

Idea tooo outside the box?

to finish killing the Republican Party. It's not really multitasking, one will accomplish the other.

We already have one..
The Progressive Democrats Of America.. Also, remember the biggest caucus in the HOuse is the Progressive Caucus.. They have an independent streak , seperate of the corporatist Obama has too much surrounded himself with.

challenger to Specter. That would be a great test case. Unseat Specter in the primary and we have a chance. Of course he would then pull a Lieberman and the DLC would support him.

They will work outside to assist primary challengers to DLC types.. In the end, they'll get behind the party,if there are no other options of course..
They have only been around since 2004, so they are a new organization.
With the likes of Tim Carpenter, Ed Asner,Lila Garret Tome Hayden, Barbara Lee, Jim HIghtower, Medea Benjamin on their board, I don't think they are a bunch of Wallflowers.

Their strategy..

PDA Inside-Outside Strategy


We will reach our goal by working inside the Democratic Party to return it to its roots as the party that represents the workers and the less fortunate, and by building coalitions outside the Democratic Party on shared issues.

By establishing chapters in all 435 congressional districts, we are creating an information and action conduit that allows us to effectively organize in response to or in support of congressional actions.

We work with the Congressional Progressive Caucus to support and bring forward progressive legislation on the core issues identified by our PDA chapters.


http://pdamerica.org/index.php

Your statement "By establishing chapters in all 435 congressional districts," caught my attention. Last time I looked, which was some time ago, there wasn't but about three chapters in the state of Washington and none in my district. I see there is now. I have contacted them. Thanks again.

policies and priorities the party should take up - usually based on lobbyist $$$.

... or anything that's under party control (and therefore under corporatist control)!

Perhaps even go a step further and if you get any self-addressed stamped envelopes from them, send them back without anything in them except perhaps a note to stop squashing progressive candidates or something like that in them so that they get the message, but from your note AND the fact that they have to pay the postage that you used to send them that note. Over time, if enough of us do that, perhaps it will send a message that we're not going to put up with their corporatist crap any more!

Instead, give money to candidates that are ones we can safely say aren't corporatist money directly or give it to organizations that will help promote them and other progressive non-corporatists.

Hell, even if you want to support more conservative Democrats, one could also use this strategy with the point being to serve "conservative" but NOT corporatist serving swine!

I'd rather have a non-corporatist like Paul Hackett who arguably has some conservative views on things like gun ownership, etc. than some of the corporatist serving jerks that try to masquerade as progressives come election time. We should help those sort of folk in red states as well who arguably might be able to get more REAL moderates to cross over for them from independents and Republicans who are equally as fed up with the elite-serving corporatocracy we have in place now.

It's no coincidence that the so-called moderates of the Dems pushed out Paul Hackett early before he could redefine what was considered as a moderate away from being a corporatist-leaning toadie.

for Obama's next run.

support progressive challengers to DINO's in primaries. Many progressives are afraid to run against an incumbent because they know they will be fighting the Party structure. If we show them we have their back, maybe they will get braver. Will they get enough votes? Who knows, but it's our only chance. CT Democrats didn't lose anything trying to dump Lieberman. If they had had more national grass-roots support, they might have been successful.

and gave up.

We tried to infiltrate the anti-party, and it was disbanded.

What's the solution?

Start a new group? :shrug:

Will s/o please K&R?

and gives me hope.

Thanks.

Be like the puritanical repugs? We need to temper our demands to include some of the dino.s, turncoat repugs etc. This will be worthwhile, because now, we would have a decade to accomplish our goals, instead of do healthcare reform now or never. Let the republicans continue to exile all less hardcore than rush. We should NOT emulate them.

Have a decade to undo the damage bush did. Let the poor starve, what the hell is the hurry. 20,000 Americans died last year from the lack of decent health care, but hell we are in no hurry.

So if a drunk monkey has been driving off on the right side of the road for the last eight years and wrecking the car we should just straighten the wheel?

No, you need to veer left to get the hell back on the road.


I think you make an equivalency argument here that is logically untennable. This "don't go puritanical (left)" suggests the following. 1) that the Left wing is dangerous and that they are worthy of the venom to call them 'puritanical.' 2) That policy doesnt matter only how 'wingy' or 'centrist' you are. 3) That Liberal or Left Policy cannot possibly work and is equivalent to conservative policy.

over Sestak.

Joe Sestak who has a 98% party voting line record. Joe Sestak who spent 30 years in the Navy serving this country over a guy up until 3 months ago was a fucking republican.

We have an Admiral and a progressive ready to run, and these assholes want us to work for Specter.

You have got to be fucking kidding me.

We just need to work outside the Democratic Party that will support Specter.

His "l" is not used in his name and used for "liberal", not being a lizard...

Probably needs some work, but you get the idea...

And he doesn't have to be "James Bond" to go after the agents of "Specter"...

Saving the democratic party that is.

-Hoot

According to this article written January 2nd, 2008:

Independents are voters who, when asked by friends or pollsters, identified themselves as "independent" of the Democrats and Republicans. In some states, these voters can register as "independent" or "unaffiliated," but in other states, they register as Democrats or Republicans. Nationally, they make up about a third of all voters, but in some critical states like New Hampshire, they comprise over 40% of the electorate, both in general and most primary elections.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_percentage_of_independent_voters_in_America

if he runs against Obama ...and I hope he does cause I ain't voting for Obama again.

I'm pleased to see a thread like this here. I'll be following the Progressive Democrats from here on. There's even one in a district near me.