Operation Rescue's "Tiller Report II"

Now available through Google cache ... http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:-v1Da0S2wdwJ:www.operationrescue.org/files/Tiller%2520Report%2520II.pdf+%22tiller+report+II%22+operation+rescue&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

It starts out with a nice disclaimer:

But, further into the warrgarbl (looks like it's on page 42), there's this:

Mixed messages much, Operation Rescue? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RTLM">RTLM would be so proud.

They believe in their cause. They use civil disobedience in order to accomplish their goals.

Murder is another story. But they have never supported murder and nothing on their websites states that they support violence.

The most I hear about these people is that they break into abortion clinics and smash up machines. That isn't terrorism. It's civil disobedience.

What we should be attacking is their ideology, not their methods. There have been plenty of left wing groups that have done similar acts and I doubt that you'd call them terrorist groups.

it is breaking and entering, it is vandalism and they are criminals and should be prosecuted as such. Why are you defending them here?

I fully support those groups breaking into animal testing labs and destroying equipment, and spiking trees in the forest. I support it because the legal methods have all been exhausted. There is a point when civil disobedience and breaking the law become viable options to accomplishing your goals.

I'm not going to condemn them for doing the same things that I have supported when done by certain left wing groups.

We must fight their ideology.

But, I bet he never donated to the GOP.

Charles Manson was directly responsible for inciting murder and attempted murder.

Except instead of a fake beard and a slow ride on the freeway, Operation Rescue closed down their website.

I hope Operation Rescue gets a fair trial.

A full and televised fair trial.

Sorry, but the current evidence contradicts your claims.

Do you think that their members just wake up and decide to blow up clinics and murder doctors and health care staff all by themselves?

Just because there was a bad apple in the bunch does not mean that Operation Rescue called for or supported their actions.

this is one of the most over-the-top defenses of the indefensible i've EVER seen on this site...

terrorists then the door is wide open to prosecute Operations Rescue and other similar groups as Terrorist groups.

The Environmental groups only destroyed property, the Animal Rights groups only freed animals and in both cases no one was murdered.

Operation Rescue and other similar groups DO NOT get a free pass because they have their "Christian" religion behind them.

I also do not think that any of them should get a free pass.

If you break the law, you need to be willing to face the consequences.

"I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you... I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good... Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a biblical duty, we are called by God, to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism." August 16, 1993

"When I, or people like me, are running the country, you’d better flee, because we will find you, we will try you and we will execute you." (reportedly said of doctors who perform abortions) 1995

The quotes in their entirety.

"Let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good.... If a Christian voted for Clinton, he sinned against God. It's that simple.... Our goal is a Christian Nation... we have a biblical duty, we are called by God to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want Pluralism. We want theocracy. Theocracy means God rules. I've got a hot flash. God rules."

He is basically saying that Christians need to be uncompromising (which sounds a lot like many DUers). That Christians should focus on turning the US into a Christian Theocracy.

"When I, or people like me, are running the country, you'd better flee, because we will find you, we will try you, and we will execute you. I mean every word of it. I will make it part of my mission to see to it that they are tried and executed... If we're going to have true reformation in America, it is because men once again, if I may use a worn out expression, have righteous testoserone flowing through their veins. They are not afraid of contempt for their contemporaries. They are not even here to get along. They are here to take over... Somebody like Susan Smith should be dead. She should be dead now. Some people will go, "Well how do you know God doesn't have a wonderful plan for her life?" He does, it's listed in the Bible. His plan for her is that she should be dead."

He stated that if he ran the US, he would make abortion illegal, find those taking part in abortions, try them under law, and execute them.

I'm not saying that what he said isn't insane. But he never incited murder.

I appreciate your admiration, but I'm not interested.

How on earth you can defend this shit is beyond me.

Shelley Shannon performing her terrorist actions as an OR member on their behalf and tried to kill Dr Tiller as an OR and AOG member. OR is specifically a terrorist antiabortnoid group; to say otherwise is to display one's ignorance ... or collaboration.

But thanks for playing. We have some lovely parting gifts for you.

Thank you.

Then again, I have some experience in the industry and know what might happen.

Just sayin'.

That's just a strange double standard.

Big difference.

You're kidding, right?

Please be kidding.

- perhaps you should consider yourself in the wrong.

Breaking into labs and vandalizing equipment is wrong. I would gladly send you to jail.

"The man who can face vilification and disgrace, who can stand up against the popular current, even against his friends and his country when he know he is right, who can defy those in authority over him,


who can take punishment and prison and remain steadfast—that is a man of courage.


The fellow whom you taunt as a 'slacker' because he refuses to turn murderer—he needs courage. But do you need much courage just to obey orders, to do as you are told and to fall in line with thousands of others to the tune of general approval and the Star Spangled Banner?"

-Alexander Berkman



There are different points at which people stop fighting for their cause. I am willing to break into places and smash things. Many groups have done it before as a last resort.

You clearly do not want to go that far and that's fine. I'll do the dirty work for you.

I do not support you one iota.

Interfering with a woman's legal right to access medical care is not civil disobedience. By the same token, you may dislike the US involvement in Israel's policies but breaking into a synagogue and smashing things is also not considered civil disobedience, as it harms and terrorizes people. It's called a hate crime. Same issue here.

If you don't support the US involvement with Israel, and all legal methods have been exhausted, you should directly attack infrastructure related to the US Israeli actions that you dislike.

That doesn't include breaking into synagogues and smashing things. That is a hate crime and has nothing to do with US/Israeli relations.


You have to remember that these people think that Abortion is murder. They believe they are saving lives when they smash equipment.

One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter, right? If they say they think it's murder, than killing people is cool, right, 'cause they're fighting for what they believe?

Do you know what an oxymoron is? Yeah, I didn't think so.

Ick.

don’t you think they would be advocating the punishment of the women who get abortions? "If" abortion IS murder, the woman who gets an abortion IS a murderer.

Or other acts of violence.

I never said you had to resort to violence. I said that after legal methods are exhausted, breaking the law becomes a viable option.

Read Peter Singer's "Practical Ethics". In fact all you have to do is read the 11th chapter.

Of course we need to attack their methods. Geez.

And busting up clinics IS violent and should be condemned. Blocking someone's way is also threatening.

Civil disobedience should be done against the state, not against individuals and their property.

I want to know where it shows that the leaders of Operation Rescue incited a member to kill someone.

trash equipment but they aren't inciting them to murder?

Main Entry: in·cite : to move to action : stir up : spur on : urge on

Inciting them is to spur them to take action, what action they take becomes their own judgment. But when you spur someone to break the law and become violent, you reap the whirlwind.

To incite someone to commit murder is to support murderous actions and push them towards murder. They did no such thing.

They support breaking in to clinics and smashing equipment. That isn't inciting murder.


Like I stated above, I have no problem with them breaking in and smashing equipment. I have supported left wing groups that have done the same. Those left wing groups don't resort to murderous tactics. And neither has Operation Rescue.

I am against Operation Rescue's ideology. But I am not going to demonize them for taking actions that I have supported.

be violent and break the law, yet not incite them enough to commit murder?

How do you do that?

that all legal options have been exhausted and nothing has been accomplished. That the next step is going to be breaking the law. First, we will target their infrastructure by damaging their equipment/product.

But you must stress that no one, under any circumstance, should resort to violence against humans. That is where a clear line must be drawn. A very clear line.

Left wing groups have done it for years. Their members aren't murdering left and right.

being taken anyway and that you are trying to save lives.

So for them, its kind of a hard line to draw.

Maybe if you are saving animals, you can argue that a person's life is more important than an animals so you draw the line there. But for abortion foes that doesn't really work.

Sorry you're wrong. Animal rights activists often view animals as being just as important as humans.

Your point is moot.

Why didn't you just admit it earlier?

Liberals like myself recognize you as an anti-choicer for :
#1 not being honest about your online persona
#2 suggesting animal rights are trivial, and
#3 disregarding women's potential suffering as a result of late-term-pregnancy complications.

Actually, no. You didn't get me.

1. I will gladly describe my online persona.

2. I don't believe I ever suggested that animal rights were trivial. I'm a big supporter of Peter Singer. So try again.

3. I'm pro-choice. Doesn't that conflict with your views of me? I think it does.


I never said that Operation Rescue's ideologies were right. In fact I have stated OVER AND OVER AND OVER again that they are wrong and pretty much bat shit insane. What I stated was, there methods are no different than many left wing groups that I have supported. So I cannot demonize them for those actions.

Do you bother doing any research?

A 19 year old who is so well spoken...actually, regarding an interaction with you about Ted Bundy, I believe you probably are fairly young.

However, what gives you such a voice on the shooting of this doctor?
And, how are you so confident about Operation Rescue?

My voice is my voice alone. What I say is what I believe based on what I have studied and I invite anyone to prove me wrong. I'd rather be made a fool once, than to be a fool forever.

The shooting of the doctor is tragic. The man who killed him, assuming we have the right guy and he did what they say he did, deserves to be punished to the full extent of the law.

I appreciate that you think I'm well spoken. I try to be so that people don't tear me apart for semantics. Holding such radical beliefs means that I have a lot of people who don't like me. I try to give them as little to attack me with as possible.

But, you just have to believe in yourself.

I did not know the definition of "semantics" until I was at least into the 2nd year of college.

I don't have a problem with them breaking into clinics and smashing equipment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RTLM

I'm sure there is a lawyer able to hold Operation Rescue accountable.

The radio station you are referring to called Tutsi's "cockroaches" that deserved to be smashed and killed. On the day that violence started they broadcast to Hutu's that now was the time to start killing the Tutsi "cockroaches".

Operation Rescue has done no such thing. Nothing even close.

... I have faith that someone in the legal system will find these people culpable.

Oh, and you know what punishments the RTLM managers, etc suffered, right?

I never said that the RTLM got the punishment that it deserved. I said that they directly incited murder. Operation Rescue has done no such thing.

With the evidence I have seen, I see no reason to find Operation Rescue culpable of anything.

With a few clicks to google, I've found a few questionable comments in one of OR's "reports."

I'm sure someone doing a real investigation will find more, especially since OR suddenly shut their website down.

It's beyond coincidence that the group most vocal about bringing Dr. Tiller to "justice" has any association with the man who murdered him.

It's commendable that you are one of the few voices calling for everyone to adhere to the "innocent until proven guilty" thing, and I agree.

But, just as adamant as you are that they are innocent, I am for finding out everything we can to hold everyone responsible for the doctor's murder.

It would be a shame for the so-called lone wolf be the one to take the fall for the policies of the guys at the top.

That's never a good thing. Seek justice, not revenge.

If they find evidence that OR supported these tactics, then lets prosecute. But lets not demonize OR right off the bat.


It is very likely that all this is a coincidence. OR has a large amount of members and of course a crazy nut that hates abortion and tiller is going to join a group that is also against abortion and Tiller. I see nothing especially suspicious with that connection.

Slow down, willya!

Your motivation must be from something other than wanting justice.

Unless you just simply got the RTLM and murder accusations thing wrong.

human beings work in these clinics and they are caring for the sick. it terrorizes people. the clinic is doing nothing illegal.

They are attacking the source of their "problems".

You do realize that other reproductive care occurs at these clinics right? So it's ok for these groups to destroy equipment that should be benefiting other woman who may be pregnant and getting pre-natal care? It's ok to scare these other woman away who may not have the money or insurance to go to a regular doctor's office? Short-sighted and naive.

can probably have their roots traced back to Operation Rescue at one time or another. At some point in time this terrorist breeding ground needs to be shut down.

Just because a member of Operation Rescue shot and killed a doctor that did abortions does not mean that Operation Rescue had anything to do with it.

Frankly, who cares if you "need proof".

You claimed that all extreme pro-life terrorist groups can be traced back to Operation Rescue. You provided no proof. Without proof, your claim is pointless and irrelevant.

are you trying to say the killer's playmates and other affiliations had nothing to do with his motive?

the past 24 hours there have been no fewer than 20 major threads here detailing OR's "greatest hits" justifying violence and murder...see them for yourself...Or go to the K.C. Star or Wichita Eagle site and see some of the rosier public comments...

That is NOT civil disobedience. It's breaking and entering, vandalism, destruction of private property.

And those are CRIMES.

Their methods SUCK, they are criminals.

Read my above posts for an explanation.

that phrase is very familiar...........I KNOW I have heard it used very recently......OH, now I remember....

Dick Cheney said the same thing about torture! Wow! Small world, eh!

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

when you torture. Your defense of Operation Rescue is not surprising and your argument in support of Eco-terrorists, etc, doesn't fly either.

Operation Rescue advocates violence, even you admit that, and they advocate violence to terrorize healthcare practitioners.

Don't start making such absolutely ridiculous claims simply because you have no argument. I am alright with you not wanting to break the law. I am different. I am not alright with you saying that all law breaking is equal.

Breaking and entering is not torture. To suggest that there isn't a clear difference is fucking stupid.

Operation Rescue breaks equipment for the same reason that the ALF breaks equipment. They are trying to damage the infrastructure that supports the actions they are against.

Against animal testing? Break the testing equipment.

Against abortion? Break abortion equipment.

They aren't terrorizing. They are breaking things so they don't work anymore.

by fervently claiming to support organizations like ALF, it is quite funny. I think you think that kind of ridiculous argument is going to fly on DU, ummmm, nope, don't think so.

ALF is a terrorist group and so is Operation Rescue. Operation Rescue advocates violence in hopes of terrorizing medical practitioners to stop them from performing a lawful act. ALF advocates violence in hopes of terrorizing those who use animals to do research.

Operation Rescue's advocating of violence cumulated in the murder of a Doctor today and they should be held accountable for that.

ALF is not a terrorist group and neither is Operation Rescue. They damage infrastructure so it doesn't work anymore.

Don't ruin it be letting on. :)

I just couldn't help myself, lol!

Seek help.

Telling me to seek help doesn't make my point any less valid.

I know of which proves they support murder is their stated goal to end abortion and we shouldn't dismiss hysterical anti-women/abortion rhetoric which has historically inspired killers to do horrible things for someone else's cause. Time will tell if OR was directly involved in the cold-blooded murder of a doctor whose calling was to heal and protect his patients. Here's an interesting article while we wait:

Former Operation Rescue Leader to Vatican: Remove Cowardly US Bishops

http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/mar/09031103.html

In which case the seek help would still seem to apply.

I said that I have supported certain groups who break the law as a last resort. I never incited law breaking.

Sorry, your claim holds no water.

They said you were advocating, meaning promoting it. There are several of your posts where you have said when legal means are exhausted, then it's ok to commit the crimes of breaking, entering and vandalism. That is advocating. You are saying that it is ok.

Inciting would mean that you are urging people to commit crimes, and you are correct you have not incited here. However your advocacy and defense of these despicable people, lead me to wonder what your real agenda here at DU is?

Now, I understand (from reading the posts here) you are only 19 and probably in your first year in college. I would like for you to pay particular attention in your English class, as it seems vocabulary and grammar are not your strong points.

My advice to you is go do a little living. Age has a way of changing your perspective, you realize your own mortality and when you no longer feel you have a life time to pay for your crimes in your quest to change the world, or when you have a family or other obligations that will make you realize the foolishness of advocating violence, you will mature and your convoluted thinking may change. But please feel free to come back and join us when you've gained a little life experience and wisdom.

Color me surprised.

Terrorizing people until they agree to submit to the views of some lunatic fundie fringe mentality.

Plueeeeeez!

They are damaging equipment so it doesn't work anymore.

Bullshit!

and had a bomb removed from the roof of his building....

Operation Rescue had nothing to do with the first attack on Tillman's life or the bomb.

The breaking and entering was almost certainly their doing. And I have no problem with that. Like I stated above, I have supported left wing groups that have done the same thing.

a California abortion clinic http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5761243

How would you know?

That should be obvious since I posted it for the world to see. What do you think I am scared that you found that? Does that somehow make my points any less valid?

Now I must ask you why that is relevant.

But please, be gentle. My virgin ears can't take abuse. :eyes:

Leave it to the grown-ups who actually have a little experience with these groups.

Unless, of course, you are an active sympathizer.

Sorry, but "terrorist" is a term that is used to damn often. These groups target infrastructure and damage it to prevent any more wrong doings. They aren't killing people. They aren't "terrorizing" people. They specifically find targets that have to do with their cause. Nothing else.

I won't accept defense of terrorism from someone who has less life experience than most of my wardrobe.

Simply because I am young does not mean that my arguments are weaker. If my arguments are wrong, prove me wrong. I am more than willing to admit defeat if someone would just show me the evidence I've been asking for all along.

I recognize the militant, self-righteous attitude.

Oh! The heart of a young anarchist!

Gimme a freaking break.

I don't "debate" kids.

I see you want to just throw in the towel because I'm too young.

(See now I'm just being a "pain in the ass".)

Militant? If by militant you mean not willing to stop fighting because my actions are illegal, than yes I am militant. But I'm not self righteous. I am often made a fool. It helps me build stronger arguments.

I'm not an anarchist. I think anarchy is a pipe dream for idiots.

Happens to all of us, eventually.

Don't do anything criminally stupid in the interim.

But I'll try my best.

and they see murder as civil disobedience...

you should really go back and see how extreme (publicly) their rhetoric was in the late 80s-early 90s...sometime in the late 90s they tried to clean it up a little for PR's sake, but it's the same hatred as before -- just with a semi-mainstream face and now they are always quick to publicly denounce violence while backslapping it behind closed doors

... the American Taliban prevents women from going to the doctor.

"Page 1
Page 2
Page 3
Presents
The
Tiller
Report
The Newly Updated Shocking Exposé
On America‘s Most Infamous
Late-Term Abortionist
II
Page 4
Copyright 2004, 2006
Operation Rescue
P.O. Box 782888
Wichita, KS 67278
www.operationrescue.org
All Rights Reserved
DISCLAIMER
Operation Rescue’s stated purpose is to share the Gospel of Jesus Christ and to stop abortion by all
legitimate forms of protest, and by complying with the Biblical Mandate in Ephesians 5:11, to have
nothing to do with the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.
Nothing included in The Tiller Report is intended to encourage or to incite illegal acts.
The names and addresses contained herein are published only with the intent of encouraging prayer
for those listed and to encourage the public to use peaceful, legal means to speak out against the
tragedy of abortion.
Operation Rescue does not encourage or incite repetitive, threatening or abusive communications
with these individuals and companies, be this by telephone call, fax, email or letter.
Any reference to illegal acts is solely for the purpose of information and education, and are not in-
tended to incite or encourage similar acts"

through this google search:

tiller site:freerepublic.com

There is too much for one person, but the conspiracy is in there somewhere.

But, you're correct, we need to save as much as possible.

To: ArchAngel1983
"You know as well as I do that nobody will “fight” to take this country back."

Sorry to disappoint you, but some of us have awakened and are very willing to fight for our freedom. You're right about one thing; we have reached the tipping point of the cauldron of freedom, and it will wash away our spineless enemies. But you just go on ahead and give up. Others will fight for you, as usual.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2222807/posts

I wonder if they have universal health care there?

of this troublesome priest?"

or, maybe I'm just reading too much into it.

sometimes, I think maybe I'm being paranoid.

delete

Who fucking wrote this? Stan Lee?

That second quote says it all. Not hard to read between those lines.

Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them;

GOD wrote it, you heathen! :)

There's other gods? :wow:

:)

if this doesn't imply violence I don't know what does.

They have crossed the line into inciting violence on many occasions, no matter how much they swear they don't they are lying. I think they don't even know what the truth is anymore, they are so eye-deep in this shit of hatred. As a christian I find it absolutely disgusting.

Well written.

And anyone who gives them money should be charged with aiding and abetting terrorism.

:kick: