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I see these ads promoting abstinence until marriage, paid for by the government.

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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 05:02 PM
Original message
I see these ads promoting abstinence until marriage, paid for by the government.
Arizona opted out of abstinence only sex ed when Napolitano was governor and then back in when GOP fundie Jan Brewer took over. So now we have ads telling everyone (I assume) that you should wait until you get married to have sex. Not until you are 18. Not until you are emotionally ready to handle it. Nope, not until you are married.

I fail to see how this isn't a violation of separation of church and state. I mean, why marriage as the magical moment when it's okay to fuck, instead of some other milestone? I can't think of an argument to support that conclusion that doesn't invoke Gawd in some way.
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Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
1. Abstinence until marriage is a good idea
You should be stone cold sober for the wedding ceremony.

Let no one claim they said 'I do' only because they were drunk.



:hide:
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lib2DaBone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
2. I used to drive School Bus...
I can tell you about how effective the "abstinence only" will work among hormone-raging 16 year olds.


"now you kids make sure you practice safe sex... put an aspirin between your knees and hold it there....
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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
3. Separation of Church and State is an illusion ..
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=214x242261
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Lyric Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
4. I actively teach my son the opposite.
That waiting until marriage is a BAD idea, because intimate relations are deeply important to a successful marriage, and you should never enter what's supposed to be a lifelong contract with someone if you don't know that you'll be compatible intimately.

I teach him that waiting until he's 18 and mature enough to handle the consequences is the best plan, but that he should probably not commit to a marriage without being sure that he and his spouse will get along well intimately. I've just seen too many marriages break apart because of sexual incompatibilities, and divorce is potentially life-wrecking for both parties involved.
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gleaner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. What you said. You are absolutely right. n/t
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
5. I'm 33 and not yet married
So according to these clowns, I should not yet have sex.

I want them to look me in the eye and tell me that with a straight face.
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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. See, that's the thing. That's why they want to teach it to kids.
They know adults will tell them to go pound sand and won't believe their bullshit. They want to mold impressionable young minds into Christian soldiers. I know that at least some of the programs being used in the public schools right now are backed by religious organizations use the purity pledges to recruit members into their church.
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-04-10 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #6
20. Controling people's sexuality is a tactic to manipulate and shame them.
Controlling the sexual behavior of followers is one of the most reliable indicators of an abusive cult.
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HockeyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. My Uncle was 45 when he married
Wasn't there a movie (comedy) about a 45 year old virgin? Hmm. Maybe they can make a move, or sitcom, about an unmarried 75 year old virgin in a nursing home? Imagine the potential script for that? :evilgrin:
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mwrguy Donating Member (396 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
7. HCR just put up $250 million for abstinance only
Edited on Sat Apr-03-10 06:43 PM by mwrguy
plus matching funds from states.
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ncteechur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
8. calm down people...according to the OP description, the ad didn't invoke religion
just marriage which may or may not involve religion.

second, the ad didn't talk about abstinence only. If it did, the OP didn't mention it.
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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. It said abstinence until marriage and is paid for with government money.
Now, please give me a non-theological argument for the government money promoting abstinence until marriage.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Government Money..would mean "OUR MONEY" WE THE PEOPLE are the GOVERNMENT! eom
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Caretha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
10. ROFLMFAO
yeah, that's gonna work. Go tell that to our ancestors. People been fuckin' since time began (guess what...that's why you are here) and I'll betcha (that's Failin Palin speech) that it doesn't matter how much money we throw at it now, that it's not going to work this time. Just ask Saraaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh.

You know you just can't make this crap up. When will the US get past the Victorian era?
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
11. Abstinence only has failed miserably. Mebbe they're hoping to up birthrates?
:shrug:

This study of teens and pledges comes from Johns Hopkins researcher Janet Rosenbaum, who took a rigorous look at nearly 1,000 students. She compared teens who took a pledge of abstinence with teens of similar backgrounds and beliefs who didn’t. She found absolutely no difference in their sexual behavior, or the age at which they began having sex, or the number of their partners.

In fact, the only difference — aside from apparent memory-impairment — was that the group that promised to remain abstinent was significantly less likely to use birth control, especially condoms, when they did have sex. The lesson many students seemed to retain from their abstinence-only program was a negative and inaccurate view of contraception.

http://www.sj-r.com/opinions/x512370667/Ellen-Goodman-Abstinence-only-education-has-been-dismal-failure
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The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
14. Has nothing to do with church - practical reasons for it:
Kids. If two people promise to be with one another and have kids it puts them on more equal footing as a family - whether there be a divorce or the woman in the relationship dies, the child and father have more legal protection (ie - a woman and man come together to make a family, she has the child, they agree to raise it, something happens to her the childs' father has more legal standing versus having sex outside of such a relationship and a child coming into the world).
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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Why does the care of children require abstinence from sex until marriage? Or marriage at all?
Edited on Sat Apr-03-10 10:38 PM by Hello_Kitty
A child born to an unmarried couple has the same legal standing vis a vis entitlement to support, health insurance, probate claims, SS entitlement in the event of a parent's death etc. We no longer make distinctions between "legitimate" and "illegitimate" children with regard to those things. Now, you can argue that it's better for a child to be brought up by a married couple than an unmarried one but you still haven't made the case that people should refrain from sex until marriage. And what about gay people? What about post-menopausal women? What about people who have no intention of having (any or more) children?
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KonaKane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 10:44 PM
Response to Original message
16. I think cohabitation for one year should be required by law
before a marriage license is issued. How can you expect people to stay married when they suddenly find themselves living with someone romantically, and they have no experience with that situation? It's absurd.

You have to show some training or experience in just about anything else in our society before you get a license to practice it....why should marriage be any different?
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-03-10 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. I agree with you there
What would be ideal: create a form of "trial marriage" that doesn't bestow property or child-custody rights, but does allow power of attorney over health issues, etc. When you get engaged you go to the courthouse, give them $25, and agree to live together for a period of not less than one year. If you decide it's not going to work, you can dissolve the trial marriage with no strings attached. This only lasts one year and you can only get one, so at the end of the year youcan either take out a license and get married or go into a "shack up" status.
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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-04-10 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. But marriage doesn't bestow child custody rights!
If you are a parent of a child, you can petition for custody regardless of your marital status with the other parent.
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-04-10 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. Parentage bestows rights, true...
but if I were to marry someone with a kid, I'd probably file to adopt the kid soon after the marriage was finalized. This "trial marriage" wouldn't allow you to do that.

'Course, if you were to get your trial wife pregnant, there'd be a whole lot of legal hassles...I thought about saying "if you guys conceive a child you can end the trial marriage and do the final marriage immediately," but that's not so good--you'd have a LOT of fundamentalists entering the trial marriages and immediately getting pregnant just to be able to have the final marriage.
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