I have come across DU'ers who think coal miners are overpaid in the last couple of days.

I have three generations of family that were involved in coal mining, and have lost family in mining accidents and injuries.

Some worked in the mines, some worked as trucking contractors. It has never been a safe industry.

That's also why ignore is such a great feature.

They are underpaid as far as I'm concerned.

but he was not able to go back to the mines. He moved his family away from the mines and never got the full lung disease. He was real lucky!

He had a younger brother who did die in a mine accident.

He was just diagnosed with COPD caused by black lung. What's amazing is that he was in the mines for less than 15 years. That's all it took.

i don't live in a coal mining area and haven't for many a decade, but i remember back in the day that plenty of fuckwits would tell tall tales abt how much "they" earned

oh yeah? it so easy why don't you do it? is what i always felt like saying -- if there is so much money there, why wouldn't you chase it?

there's always some fuckwit who doesn't think a blue collar job should pay for shit, that the laborer is not worthy of his hire, that if someone puts food on your table and keeps your house warm he can go to hell -- i honestly don't understand that attitude, it's just sick and sociopathic that people could be so hateful toward those who basically make it possible for them to live

Well said

It was the same fucking thing we heard back when the auto industry was looking for a bailout.

Blame the workers, not the (mis) management.

:mad:

Watch that "Deadliest Catch" show. Those guys bring home not altogether bad coin. BUT, look at the dangers they face.

for a $70,000 salary if they had the option put to them up front?

It's sad that they have to make that choice then some sick fucking assholes criticize them for making too much money.

He retired in 1983. I've lost count of how many people I meet that run their mouths about how unfair it is that the UAW managed to negotiate decent medical care and some sort of pension for retirees.

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

I haven't seen it around and I really liked it.

30 Days was a great show. 3 seasons wasn't nearly enough.

Heck of a shocking video.

who thinks coal miners are overpaid is a total idiot, and is almost certainly overpaid no matter what their job.

If they've actually spent some time as a coal miner.

Though the family stayed in mining, mostly they did structural work, reinforcing iron and copper mine adits in Upper Peninsula Michigan before my grandfather and father became engineers in the open put phosphate mines in Florida.

My great grandfather was a slate miner in Wales, went to Canada, became a coal miner there, then in Pennsylvania, and then moved to Michigan. His father in law was a shipbuilder from Scotland who became a railway bridge builder in Canada, then settled in Michigan using his building talents to reinforce the mines.

But coal was king in western PA from the late 1800's to as we speak. Most if not all moved into the support industries such as trucking and maintenance, by the mid 1900's.

Interestingly, it was the mechanization of farming that pushed many of my ancestors into coal mining. All of my ancestors were farmers, until the late 1800's.

My last immigrant ancestor. He was the son of a sheep farmer in Wales and spent part of his youth hired out to tend sheep for other farmers. I'd guess that slate mining paid more and that is how he got into mining. In his old age he returned to farming - bought some land and had a dairy herd.

The other side of that family, of the grandmother who married the mining engineer, was into lumber. They cut cedar to make railroad ties and the support timbers for the mines. Kind of a natural fit there.

were anthracite coal miners in eastern PA (Scranton area).
They moved up to Binghamton, NY area when the Endicott-Johnson Shoe Co. factories promised (and provided) better wages and benefits in the early 1900s.

:D

There are still giant slag heaps of slate there.

My ggf and gggf were coal miners in South Wales and went to PA to mine coal near Scranton.

It never ceases to amaze me how someone who makes a very low wage can be convinced by a multimillionaire "man of the people" to demonize anyone that makes a dollar or more an hour than they do.

To me, "West Virginia coal miner" is a synonym for "grinding poverty". Has been ever since the early 20th century. Maybe earlier.

Who's been calling coal miners overpaid? Are there some Blankenship relatives on DU?

basically the "who" saying this is fuckwits...the same type of fuckwit who believe all they hear from rush and glenn beck -- i've heard this crap from childhood

same type of person who claims all black people ride cadillacs paid for by federal gov't yet somehow can't show you how to get that cadillac for themselves or yourself

I said deep mining was the dirtiest, most dangerous work on the planet and a rational system would pay them the way our system pays stock brokers.

I can't say exactly what that change is, as it has gotten a number of posts deleted, but the, um, ideological orientation of the site has shifted decidedly in a particularly unfortunate direction lately.

This is certainly not the DU I found back in 2001.

but I've noticed the same change as you describe.

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

However, I can remember back to at least 04 (when I joined) that there has been a decidedly anti- Southern, anti-working class, bent here for quite a while. Posts criticizing people for shopping at wal-mart or wearing certain types of clothes or eating certain foods have been prevalent here for a long time.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

the party was out of power. Now that they're the majority... not so much.

They're in the minority, and I imagine post crap just because they can.

'round these parts.

When they broke the UAW... well they swallowed the workers make seventy an hour canard too.

every time there is an accident. Those people have hard jobs. They deserve to be paid well.

Thanks!

And probably they damn the mining unions as much as they damn the teacher's unions as well.

in W Virginia coal-mining for more than one generation. I would think they'd be eager to leave it behind.

behind, when you could stay and have "steady" work? You would leave three generations of family behind with no hope of finding work elsewhere?

But if not the person should leave on their own. Of course they could find work elsewhere. 3 generations?

Appalachia and Coal territory is some of the poorest areas in this country. Also with our shitty health care system in the US (something you folks in Canada would not understand), makes it impossible to leave your job at Walmart or CVS (if you are lucky) and move somewhere else.

My question is why these people have never done so after several generations in America. Other people do so, why don't they?

I don't know what you do but I'm sure there's something better "out there". It's a big country and as you said people do it everyday. Can you go to your family and say hey folks we're moving. I don't know where but this is a big country and somewhere out there is something better than we have here.

Yes it's pretty simple isn't it?

It's worked out very well.

My brother was second generation GM. I never understood him either.

Why is this such a difficult question?

never done it.

I got out of my small mid-West town because only thing I could do there was be a slave in a factory. It has worked out well but yes, you do leave family behind who don't want to move.

And I couldn't get anything out of my brother either, as to why.

It's not like you're leaving forever, you can always visit. But nobody ever gets ahead if they stay in one spot and take whatever comes.

I thought the whole point of America was to allow people to move up the ladder.

is mining. Not like there are a ton of other jobs these people are qualified to do. Plus they are doing the country a service, their job is important. Not everyone is out to "move up the ladder" and the ladder is different for everyone. Maybe your base values put money or job status in a higher position than theirs. Not everyone is in it for the money, or the "American Dream". Some people are quite satisfied living in a real community where they all work together and everyone knows each other. maybe that's more important to them then "moving up the ladder". Getting ahead is not the base value of everyone in the world. If you don't understand how they can live the way they do it's not them that has the problem it's you.

And the idea is to find something else before you go into mining, not once you're there. Like when you're growing up.

I would think over 3-4-5 generations after numerous relatives are killed in mine accidents that the idea would occur to them that there has to be something better than this.

I'm sorry, I thought questions were allowed in America when you don't understand something.

I gave you the most reasonable answer one could give. But you are so wrapped up in "success and money" that you can't see that not all people value the same things you do. That is why you don't understand or can't figure it out. You think you're way is the "right " way and can't see anyone not thinking that money equals success. Well many of us out here aren't in it for the money. I and many others like me measure success by the amount of people that surround me who love me. To me that is success. Not "climbing the ladder, or visiting the people who love me" but being with the ones who love me.

You can ask all the questions you want, just because you didn't like the answer doesn't mean I am violating your "rights". Fucking grow up.

I also got attacked, psychoanalyzed, lied about, misquoted, and generally denounced. :)

Simple question in an effort to understand someone else's point of view, and you'd think I was eating live puppies by the reaction.

Weird.

without getting too snarky and you came back with "Don't I have a right to ask questions". Like I was dissing you or something. You were the one who originally came out with "I don't understand these people" like they were freaks or something. They aren't they just have a different values set than you do. And they should be applauded for what they do not attacked.

For whatever reason they stay and do the job, they deserve to be paid a decent wage for it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnRSjy4YGAk

You may think this is a corny old country song - but it's the truth. And for 30 years, the blue collar job market has been shrinking, and the urban cost of living has skyrocketed. And the "good" jobs out there come with their own set of problems and dangers - you think an iron foundry is a nice place? Or a textile mill? Ever been ot top of a paving machine, or shovel concrete?

America started with people who left a family behind across an ocean, so a simple trip between states these days shouldn't be a problem.

The more education someone gets, the higher they can go. Why would they just go somewhere else dirty and dangerous?

They couldn't be hired for much more than that. And in the '50s a lot of them did leave for the industrial areas. My parents were two of them. But, back then you could get a good paying job in the steel and rail industries with less than a high school education. My uncle on my mothers side, who was one of the smarter ones, but had a family to support at a young age, wound up being crushed in a mine.

And presumably went on to more education, and a move even further up the ladder.

WV coal mining communities are *the* poorest in America after Indian Reservations. Many of these kids grow up in trailers subsisting on oatmeal and koolaid.

A $60 bus ticket represents months of saving. Where are they supposed to find the down payment for a place "anywhere they want"? How are they supposed to find jobs out of their immediate area when they don't have internet? And how are they supposed to support themselves for the weeks it might take to find a job "out there"?

With all due respect, your posts seem extremely naive about what it's like to grow up poor, attend bad schools, live paycheck to paycheck in trailers and motels and to find your only real security in life in the people around you.

I would suggest reading Barbara Ehrenreich's Nickel and Dimed for a description of what life is really like for the poor in America and the Howard Zinn's People's History of the United States for a description of the struggle of the miners unions to raise West Virginians out of debt-slavery- a struggle much more recent than many of us would like to think about.

I grew up poor, and I know about hunger, and I left for a better life.

I can't believe that after 3-4 generations in America people are staying in these conditions.

Or do you just have a hard-on for miners?

Nothing wrong with it, but the idea is to move on.

Upward mobility is supposed to be what America is all about.

Have you ever gone across country and tried to find a job without having local references and contacts?

Not likely.

Where has that spirit gone?

Nowadays you can 'wire money' anywhere, and people are afraid to move?

Who said the support was monetary?

We had pioneers too. They crossed the ocean and never saw their family again. Didn't stop them, so I'd like to know why it stops people now in an age of easy travel.

Hard as mining is, you would not leave your home and family to work at Wal-Mart.

In the old days a high school education would have opened doors everywhere, and I'm sure high school was an option in W Virginia.

LOL, is that so?

Like I said, we're talking generations here. But nobody ever seems to leave.

We're all agreed it's shitty dangerous work, for companies that ignore all rules, so the pay doesn't really matter. But nobody ever leaves by the sound of it.

I'm just curious as to why.

Americans were not nearly as mobile as they are now, even with that HS diploma. Some do leave, like my stepfather who joined the Air Force during the Korean War. Many "kids" today are doing the same thing because they have so few opportunities. Some make it to college.

Speaking of some of my family who worked in PA steel mills and mines, the expectation was that you put in your 30 years of hard work and retire with a safety net. Families stayed together and communities, with thriving Main Streets, were built. For many, it's in their blood. It's family tradition. Some actually enjoyed it.

Fishing, farming/ranching, law enforcement, and firefighting are dangerous professions that often draw many generations, yet it's miners who seem to be the most criticized (by Americans enjoying the comfort of their heated and air-conditioned homes and offices). I don't know why that is, other than Corporate Media brainwashing. It's especially sickening considering the battles fought for the benefits many of us enjoy today.

aren't there tons of jobs there too??

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

Yeah, why don't they just buy a damn bus ticket to Anywhere, USA and pull themselves up by their bootstraps! There's jobs all over the place just begging for workers!


:eyes:

more job opportunities there. That occurs all over the world.

3-4 generations, and not once has anyone left the coal mines of W Virginia and found a job elsewhere?

is saying that?

Thank you!

Amusing and sad that just move and get a job is popping up in a thread berating DUers who complain about 'overpaid miners' and by logic, unions who help them slow the downward spiral of real wages in America.

Oh yeah, my suspect list is growing today ;) Ignore list probably grows soon. This thread is a good one for fine tuning my impressions of some fellow posters.

No answers as yet.

Which list?
:hi:

I was hoping to get an answer to a question I've asked all my life, and so far it's been a zoo.

I don't mind if miners make 200,000 a year, or are unionized, or anything else.

Point is, they don't, and they're not. They work at badly paid jobs in dangerous conditions for people who break the law, and yet they stay, generation after generation. I'd just like to know why?

to learn rather than argue

Believe it or not, some go into mining because they LIKE it. I don't have any family members right now who are "coal miners" in the strict sense of the word, but several who do specialty jobs within the mines--maintaining longwall shields, and such. They enjoy the work because it's challenging and interesting. That it pays better than other jobs available in the area is a nice bonus.

Talked to one of 'em, by the way, who had been in the Upper Big Branch Mine as a visitor to see the longwall panel. He said that he knew right away that something was wrong because there was very little air flow to the face.

"pull themselves up by their bootstraps" and get on with a successful career.

What about those who stay in poverty riddled areas of inner cities? What about those who continue to live in areas where manufacturing was king, but now shuttered? There are far too many examples to name.

If you got out then good on you. Some can't and their reasons are numerous, complex and valid.

Where would you think they could go?

Visits are allowed. :)

as soon as they are able to to to work, they go to work at what's available. In company towns, that is the company. So the generations are pretty well stuck because families have traditions and memories of when real hunger was the prime motivator. Such memories are motivators for working people to stick with the devil they know. It is what greedy owners of production rely on. And it is not too far up the scale from feudalism.

Whole classes of working people are trapped. To change, on any substantial scale, takes more than bootstrap tugging. It takes serious changes within society. To change mining, since we won't change the human nature of greedy owners, will take a whole re-structuring of energy production in this country. And that WILL create new jobs. But it will also re-arrange the flow of money. The people getting the most $ now fight change because they like the status-quo gravy train that brings them tons of money.

To suggest that workers can change their lot is at best naive. More likely it is outright propaganda. We have heard it from the top tier for generations. Class warfare only changes appearance. The roots remain the same. And the top always has their henchmen to keep the rest of us at each other's throats instead of working together to bring real change and economic justice.

Have a swell day.

So how is America different than old Europe where you were born a serf and died a serf? Or born a servant and died a servant?

I'd have a better day if I could get a rational answer to a simple question.

So far all I've gotten is that they're afraid to leave home, and that makes no sense. Everyone leaves home.

How about some bootstrap polish?

I had no idea a simple question would confuse people so much.

And thank you for your concern. It tells me much about your methods

:hi:

If that's what the answer is, then fine. :hi:

with my favorite game "Kick this important thread"

:*

:)

From your posts here, your tone, and your apparent lack of compassion for others, you do not seem to me to be honest in your desire to learn or even give credence to another point of view. You sound to me like someone who's mind is made up, and no answer will ever change or penetrate your mind. I applaud the people who have tried as they have more patience than I with willful ignorance.

Edit for typo

I now had more insight on the POV. Now please stop reading weird motivations into a simple question.

where you have not replied in a way that does not continue to blame the people in dire circumstances for their situation. It sounds to me like you find this to be a simple and easily changed lifestyle choice, when the issues are far more complicated and desparate than a just move and get a better job answer.

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

It's a dangerous, tough, dirty but necessary job. They have a right to above average wages.

Why should they live like that if they can do better elsewhere? Doesn't matter if they make 200K a year, it's a dirty dangerous job, and you can't spend the money if you're dead.

Those people who choose to often go in knowing the dangers beforehand and are frankly PROUD that they have what it takes to do such a tough job.

I have to say, I don't think you have ever truly worked hard and nor do I think you have any clue about the blue collar workers in this country. You come across as a very young or very privileged sort.

I just fail to see why people would stick with dirty dangerous low-paid jobs when they don't have to.

I grew up poor and working class btw.

I'm going to end the conversation there because frankly, I don't think there is much else to say. We see the world from a VERY different place.

I asked a question on how others 'see things.'

Like being compelled to lie and deceive for a living, as some morgtage brokers and sleazy salespeople do. Or backstabbing and asskissing your way up through middle management. Sell worthless "insurance". Hustle suckers in the name of God.

To the point that some miners who did strike for pay and safety were shot at by mine owner hired thugs and the US Army.

That sort of thing goes a long way toward development of a mindset among workers that "it's their duty". And most thinking people realize workers need to believe what they do is important, especially when they risk their lives and family's security every damned day when they go to work.

Not all workers are believers in the 'every man for himself' guidelines for life. Most people DO consider themselves as part of the greater good. Not everyone, obviously, but most.

At least it gives me some insight into the thinking on it. Thanks.

A fucking Freeper or two....I really don't believe it's any more than that.

That doesn't seem likely. Freepers are retired working class for the most part.

I haven't seen the site since it, and Drudge, were 'brand new' so it's been awhile, but I've seen stuff posted on here from there, and they don't appear to have changed much. Still crazy, but working class, not middle class or the wealthy.

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA THAT'S RICH.

Have you ever actually READ what these people have to say about unions? The poor? The unemployed?

I found a link to the Freeper page. This was before Drudge and the Freepers had a falling-out, and he eliminated the connection.

I read the site for many years. Never posted there because they struck me as crazy, not to mention creepy, but I read it for information.

Gave up on them long ago, but sections of what they post today are often reposted here, so I know they haven't changed much.

They still are a bunch of elderly retired working class people. They do the boot-strap line, but they aren't anti-working class.

oppose unions. They are the precise example of those who vote against their own financial interests and have drank the trickle down kool-aid.

But they're not anti-working class per se.

:rofl:

Outed self GOOD.

Those are RW talking points.

They bitch about Unions, and unions = Americans working.

The amount of manufacturing jobs outsourced and service jobs outsourced is staggering.

The coal minor management would bring in scabs from some poor 3rd world country and pay them 10 bucks a

day, if they could.

and others pushing agendas

It doesn't prevent questions either, only answers apparently.

there haven't been lots of answers presented.

Sorry, but the world does not have to adhere to your opinions

I now have more insight on it, no thanks to people who attacked me instead of making an effort to explain the thinking.

You have a toughen up, pick yourself up by the boots-straps attitude, they would be rich and clean and safe if only they would have some ambition. Protest all you want but this IS how you come across to many of us. If that is not the perception you want people to have of you, then perhaps you should take a good look at what you write.

Yet you post things in a place you know (despite your innocent "i'm just asking questions" approach) will not be well received and then when you get the very response you were looking for you complain about people being mean and attacking you.

Seriously, do you think you are the first or will be the last to play this sorry internet game?

Or just make them up, I'm not sure which.

Seriously, had anyone just answered the question in the first place, I would have been long gone.

I had no motivation beyond trying to understand another person's POV...my brother's initially, and I thought I might find it here.

Sorry to have disturbed you.

:eyes:

Many many people are telling you how they perceive your motives. Perhaps all of us are out to lunch, or perhaps you are coming across that way.

I have found that people here will take the time to answer intelligently an honest question, but lose patience very quickly if they believe it is specious and dishonest.

Either all the posters here are crazy, or you might choose to consider our perception.

Now kindly leave the paranoia and weird motivations out of it.

A nasty mix of victim-blaming, class-snobbery, and ignorant hillbilly stereotyping. Most of those hillbilly stereotypes have their roots in newspapers aimed at the upper and middle classes of the Northeastern cities around the late 19th/early 20th century WHEN INDUSTRIALISTS FROM THOSE SAME CITIES WERE MAKING THEIR BIG PUSH TO INVADE APPALACHIA AND STEAL PEOPLE'S LAND AND TURN THEM INTO CHEAP LABOR.

Even if they did make 70K (which, wow, what a fantasy is that? That would be a VERY good living in southern WV. Now look at how miners really live. Uh huh.) I don't understand why progressives would begrudge that. Don't we WANT fair pay for hard work? Don't we WANT a living wage for everyone?

and personality, over democratic principles, even where the personalities are implementing republican agendas and essentially governing to the right of reagan

all here on DU

Dangerous job, with a lot of ugly history where people were murdered just to earn the right to make pennies a day. Greedy and callous owners still exist. Ever changing regulations/laws that cause mining to be less safe than it could be...which shows how little miners are valued by some. To be able to change the regulations for the worse with an election... political ideology that allows people to die from negligence. Your life at the whim of someone's greed and politics.

Unfortunately, this is much harder to peddle.

People sitting on ass on their computers dont realize that most of the electricity is produced from coal power. If anything, coal miners should be paid even more for risking their lives for keeping modern comforts in operation. IMO, they do more for society than politicians and billionaires.

who thinks any other working person is over paid has drank the kool aid. The fact some would say that proves how our corporate masters and their filthy rich owners have driven a wedge between us.
ALL working people would benefit by standing together and supporting one another................

Anybody that thinks that needs to go down into one of those holes for just one day, if they even last a day. :mad:

:puke:

There are plenty of classist liberals. "Why should coal miners be paid so much? It doesn't require any education."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8105172&mesg_id=8105970
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8105172&mesg_id=8105955

THanks for the links... What messes me up is that it seems like even on DU the base value of Americans is get rich, make money, "move up the ladder".

I couldn't believe the poster here who just couldn't figure out why these folks don't "leave and move up the ladder". Is it so hard to believe that some people aren't out to "move up the ladder"? That beyond being able to pay their bills and have a few small luxuries that money, status, and power mean nothing to some people? To some people family, friends, and community are what is important.

It actually came as a reaction to something in another forum here.

And I am not ready to slap a classist label on someone that thinks investing in one's own education shouldn't pay off in a higher salary.

But, just because you have a Doctorate in Comparative Literature doesn't mean you should make more than a good plumber, frankly, I need a good plumber a hell of a lot more than a literary critic. And just try to get a good electrician.


But that first post....that one's shallow

OVERPAID? They are not paid ENOUGH, IMO.

Why should anyone NOT be paid $70K anyway? I'm a college grad with decades of work experience and I make about halfthat--and I don't begrudge anyone but fat, stinkin' CEOs who lay people off their compensation.

In Wyoming, rather than Appalachia - and no way in hell was he overpaid. He provided for his family, as it should be, but he worked exceedingly hard for every cent.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8153479

Though the book is about a horrible mining disaster back during WWII, it is amazing how similar the circumstances to this recent act of corporate murder. Gassy mine, coal dust not being properly dealt with, squeezing every last penny of profit more important than safety. Give it a look. gives a lot of insight into the lives of mine families and communities.

I really don't. I'm not stupid but I fail to identify with the idea that people who work for a living are overpaid.

Especially given the last decade; Here's an overview;

Phony war in Iraq costing untold blood and treasure.

The Trillion $$$ Bailouts of the biggest banks, brokerages and AIG

Banks too big to fail, then paying out multi-million dollar bonuses - and then having the gall to fight bank re-regulation.

Hedge Funds Managers pay a 15% tax rate - on their BILLIONS!!!

Lobbyists - what's to say?

Corporate welfare. See above.

Off-shoring, Outsourcing, etc...

The rich getting richer - by a lot!!! But don't let their tax breaks expire or the sky will fall!

The tea-baggers have a point (well some of them) and they don't even realize it. There's lots to be angry about. Their problem is they're lemmings. They're angry at the wrong people and sleep with the enemy. Even worse some of them are working people and don't know who to be mad at.

Why would average Americans be angered by other average Americans making a decent living yet not rail at the above? Is it the Kool=Aid?

And they get really pissed when they see some hard working manual labor person making a decent wage without the benefit of a degree.

is getting some fucking dirt under his nails and screwing up his manicure. But miners who risk their lives take in less than 6 figures an they are overpaid.

I'd love to think it's just some trolls pulling this crap but I know that's just not true anymore.

...there were plenty of DUers arguing that Union Health Care Plans were "too good", and Union Members needed to give them up "so that all working Americans would be more equal."

I shit you not.

This place HAS changed.

But we're not supposed to talk about it.

You didn't personally insult anyone or anything like that.:wtf:

This place is getting crazy if people can't talk respectfully about classism on DU without getting messages deleted.

Miners, given the dangerous nature of the job, deserve good pay.

did those 29 miners earn this week? How much will they earn next week?

Seems like we underpay people who do things we would sorely miss if they weren't being done, like mining, nursing, teaching, trash disposal, farming (small farms).

College doesn't mean you're more valuable, it just means you've taken steps to reduce some risks.


Now, I do think Cowboys Fans are probably overpaid........ ;)

Nice try!!

:hi:

I think they're just talking out of the rear ends.

;)

Am I hearing right? Some people on this site actually believe that coal miners are overpaid???? This is ludicrious. I'd like to know how many of them would go down into the early -- sometimes for miles -- for hours on end and dig coal. Although the technology has changed -- when my great grandfather mined coal they used donkeys to bring it out and had what they called breaker boys -- young children who broke the coal up with their bare hands -- but essentially it still means that people have to go down into the earth and bring up the coal.

My late husband's father was an attorney in Louisville, Kentucky. He later became Solicitor for the state but that's another story. Anyway, he was working on a case back in the 1950's that involved him going to Harlan County. I remember my husband telling me about it -- stories his father had told him. It is beautiful verdant land but the people existed on what amounted to 3rd world conditions. Even today in some parts of Appalachia (sp.) there is very limited roads, commerce, or opportunities.

I shall never do so again.

How about not starting threads saying "I apologize for asking a question" and then claiming you did so to thank people?

How about reading the replies and thinking about them rather than arguing because we don't say what you want?

How about stopping with what strikes many of us as being rather like manipulative behavior?

:applause:

posts that you never answered. How about answering them honestly.

in the world, and ANYONE who thinks they are overpaid needs their head examined. Maybe they should try a day in a mine......

Sigh

:kick: