“I have never seen anything like this in my lifetime,” Chomsky added. “I am old enough to remember the 1930s. My whole family was unemployed. There were far more desperate conditions than today. But it was hopeful. People had hope. The CIO was organizing. No one wants to say it anymore but the Communist Party was the spearhead for labor and civil rights organizing. Even things like giving my unemployed seamstress aunt a week in the country. It was a life. There is nothing like that now. The mood of the country is frightening. The level of anger, frustration and hatred of institutions is not organized in a constructive way. It is going off into self-destructive fantasies.”

much more:
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/noam_chomsky_has_never_seen_anything_like_this_20100419/

you know it's got to be pretty fucked up.

Mostly about the Democrats and Obama.
If they spent 1/10th the amount of energy on getting together to form a company or pool their resources, they would already be busy working towards building a brighter future.

But, like Hitler, they are trying to scapegoat the Democrats in Congress, and Obama, too.
To blame all of their problems on.
But, it won't work.

They're the ones that supported Bush for so long, as Bush dismantled every structure he could to manipulate Wall Street, the trading markets, the banking system, and the monetary system.
He screwed up the security of our financial footing in the world, so now they need to blame someone other than themselves, since they thought so highly of Bush's economic policies.

Oil is selling for what a barrel now, compared to when Bush was given the oath of office?
Cheney thinks now that Obama made us less safe, but he is the one behind the idea to invade Iraq.
So, they wound up breaking the Army in the process.
And the CIA, as well.
Over half of the officers with over 20 years experience quit after Valerie Plame was outed by the Republicans.

Nice.

NOT mention Hitler?

How do you compare against (unmentionable for political correctness)?

The interesting thing is that on the surface of it, it seems like Chomsky's claim that communists were the ones who energized change in favor of employees supports the history of Germany's National Socialists, that they were a successful party because Germans wanted socialism for their own country - but they rejected communism, ironically. Can't really wrap my head around that but there it is.

Was called "The Socialist Party."

They stuck in the name hoping to get some of them to swap over. It was clearly Fascist. It was really closer to what we have here today, the government figured out what the corporations needed, the wages, and made it happen, so they could build up their war machine. Equity in pay wasn't really a question, or aim.

It's what right-wing morons try to say, but it isn't true.

Two big problems, lots of idiots who don't know enough to keep their mouths shut, and the media is more corrupt than ever, misdirecting, and outright lying--this along with the power of the oligarchy.

Well, the German equivalent, and it's been so long since I studied German, I can't recall how it's spelled, but I know that the term nazi means someone affiliated with Germany's National Socialist Party.

I think we are on the same side here, though, right?

That the German National Socialist party wasn't even remotely socialist. They used the name because in Europe the left had been around long enough to make 'socialism' a good word and the Nazi's merely used it in their name because there it tended to mean 'pro worker.'

The Nazis however, like most fascists, were corporatist. They busted all other competing parties and destroyed and assassinated the unions which is hardly the act of a socialist.

:hi:

... the run-up to the invasion of Iraq was giving her flashbacks to the time of the Anschluss?

She wasn't the only elderly person of my acquaintance who got creeped out during that time: a lady from Budapest and a Belgian couple who were in Indonesia during WW II were among the people I worked closely with in our local anti-Bush War movement. They said the same as my MIL.

I kept trying to tell myself I was imagining the parallels since I wasn't born until after the War, but my mother in law just up and told me that one day.

Thanks to concerted propaganda efforts throughout Bush's 8 years our country took an exceedingly toxic turn for the worse, and the poison lingers. Now we have public officials and radio/tv personalities actively working to bring about violence among the RW.

Tell me again about Godwin's Law.

Hekate

She says the same thing. The lies, the propaganda, the jingoistic nationalism-she's seen and heard it all before.
And I'm old enough to remember the aftermath. I remember the occupation troops on the streets of Vienna and seeing the remains of the bombing.

Historically try to broaden your scope from Hitler solely. He was the spokesperson and instigator for the era but the entire population was seized by fascism. Nazi Germany's descent into corporatism (fascism) has some frightening parallels to today.

well ..you are living in a fantasy world if you think not!


go read the PEW poll that was just released and is on the front page of AOL>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Poll Finds a 'Perfect Storm' of Voter Distrust in Government
Posted: 04/18/10

http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/04/18/poll-finds-a-perfect-storm-of-voter-distrust-in-government/?icid=main|htmlws-main-w|dl1|link7|http%3A%2F%2Fwww.politicsdaily.com%2F2010%2F04%2F18%2Fpoll-finds-a-perfect-storm-of-voter-distrust-in-government%2F

snip:
Only about one in five registered voters believe they can trust the government in Washington to do the right thing "just about always" or most of the time, while an overwhelming majority say it will do the right thing only some of the time or never, according a Pew Research Center poll conducted March 11-21.

The survey found a strikingly negative view of government among voters that it attributed to "a perfect storm of conditions associated with distrust of government – a dismal economy, an unhappy public, bitter partisan based backlash, and epic discontent with Congress and elected officials."

snip:
Republicans registered the highest overall level of distrust (86 percent), followed by independents (70 percent) and Democrats (64 percent).

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


You can not come into my state of Florida and campaign and beg for votes and tell the people ..if you vote for me there will be no offshore oil drilling and then come back as pres and say..DRILL BABY DRILL

You can not come into a State like Florida and tell NASA workers you need their vote..and beg for their vote and tell them you will cut no jobs..and then as Pres come back into Fla and meet with only the corp heads and cut approx 9,000 jobs and put many industries out of business that support NASA..and please don't even try to tell me or anyone else that he didn't make that promise..because all our local Fla news has reported it!
http://www.floridatoday.com/content/blogs/space/2009/08/will-president-obama-keep-or-break.shtml

snip:

xxxx In light of coming decisions about NASA's future, it seems worthwhile to check back on exactly what the president said last August in Titusville.

"Let me be clear," the president said, "we cannot cede our leadership in space. That's why I am going to close the gap, ensure that our space program doesn't suffer when the shuttle goes out of service."

His goal was "making sure that all of those who work in the space industry in Florida do not lose their jobs when the space shuttle is retired because we cannot afford to lose their expertise."

He promised a space program that would "help grow the economy right here in Brevard County and right here in Florida. That's what we're going to do."

U.S. Sen. Bill Nelson and legendary astronaut John Glenn, stumping for Obama, reached out to reporters. Aides pressed the media to keep noting Obama's commitment to "close the gap" and save space jobs in Florida.

My point: The promise was neither ambiguous nor subtle. The campaign wanted voters here to know Obama was good for space and good for space jobs.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

you CAN NOT tell women you stand for reproductive rights..and then sign a executive order barring abortion when the womans health statue is abolished.

You can not accelerate a war most democrats are against.

You can not continue rendition flights , which most Democrats are against.

You can not give immunity to the Telecoms that illegally spied on Americans..which most democrats railed against..

You can not bail out Wall Street and surround yourself with the very fuckers who fucked this nation and her people..and take boat loads of their money!

You can not tell teachers you want and need their votes and you will protect them and education then put an Education guru in place who was a total failure in education in Chicago..and then applaud the mass firings of teachers in Rhode Island who increased student scores while applauding other teachers in schools that didn't increase scores! You can not have an Education secretary who is aligned with destroying public schools, with people hell bent to militarize our schools with administers trained ( Eli Broad)through a corporate foundation and school adminstrator school that are all military people..
see Madfloridians excellent journal on this topic!
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5951

Enough is enough..if the ignuts don't want to know the truth..so be it..but they will not surpress truth around me..that was the Bushbot tactic and M.O...for 8 fucking years!!..But I for one will be their worst nightmare bringing up truth and facts. This is nothing but childish propaganda, posting garbage, around people who do know the damn truth..and will not let this childish bullshit with their uneducated paid propagandists, that do not even have an ounce of historical facts ..evade truth or deminish truth.


And perhaps you could learn something from your mother ..who has been a member of this nation and republic ..longer than you have and may have a little more knowledge than you do.. but then you would have to turn off your freaking Ipod and put your blackberry down and listen for a change!

But then again..I have little doubt you could bother to listen to someone a little more informed than you are ..because you seem to THINK..you have all the damn answers!

I wish i could live long enough to see your bitching when you are paying off this national debt with nothing but shit jobs..with mandated insurance with little to no real Heatlh care..while your phones and emails are tapped ..and no Habeas Corpus in sight!

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

adding as reference...........

The executive order on abortion does not consider the health of a woman

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8167974&mesg_id=8167974


http://www.talkleft.com/story/2010/4/18/16632/4720

Illegally Wiretapped Lawyers Submit Bill for $612k in Damages
By Jeralyn, Section War on Terror
Posted on Sun Apr 18, 2010 at 03:06:32 PM EST

Two American lawyers and an Islamic charity have submitted their bill for damages following a federal court ruling the Bush Administration subjected them and Al-Haramain Islamic Foundation to illegal wiretapping. The tab as of now (not including attorneys' fees and costs): $612,000.

Who is liable?

BARACK H. OBAMA, President of the United States; NATIONAL SECURITY AGENCY and KEITH B. ALEXANDER, its Director, in his official capacity; OFFICE OF FOREIGN ASSETS CONTROL, an office of the United States Treasury, and ADAM J. SZUBIN, its Director, in his official capacity; and FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION and ROBERT S. MUELLER III, its Director, in his official capacity.

The document specifies that Mueller is not liable in his individual capacity. Since all are liable in their official capacity only, this means we pay the bill.

The order may also provide that the Government cannot use the information it illegally obtained, or any evidence derived from it, in any government proceeding. That's more likely than the money award to discourage the Government from continuing their misconduct. It also shows how important the exclusionary rule is.

As further equitable relief, and pursuant to the Court’s authority under 50 U.S.C. § 1806(g) to order suppression of evidence obtained in violation of FISA, it is adjudged and ordered that information obtained by means of plaintiffs’ unlawful electronic surveillance shall not be used by the United States government, either directly or derivatively, in any administrative, civil, or criminal proceeding in which the United States is a party.

Upon the final resolution of all such proceedings potentially involving such information, all files and records containing such information shall be purged and destroyed, except to the extent that defendants may have an existing legal obligation to preserve exculpatory evidence.

:hi:

frightened base for doing such a good job at spreading anger, fear and hatred. They have been working very hard for their owners (corporate monsters) and deserve plenty of credit.

Of course, that's to cover the fact that the only improvement has been for the wealthy elite -- the ones who *matter*.

:puke:

I want to hear them when THEY have lost just about everything!

it took 30 Years to get where we are today.

Half of DU attacked Obama during the primaries as being nothing more than a charismatic orator. And the Right still says that.

“The United States is extremely lucky that no honest, charismatic figure has arisen,” Chomsky went on. “Every charismatic figure is such an obvious crook that he destroys himself, like McCarthy or Nixon or the evangelist preachers.

Chomsky also apparently points to his usual villains but either he or Chris Hedges summary doesn't seem to touch on the root underlying much of Teabagger agita- Race.

:wtf: He may be a lot of extraneous things, but "an idiot" he is NOT. :thumbsdown:

Very idiotic comment. Sounds like Chomsky isn't an Obama worshipper but he's as far from an idiot as you can get.

If Nixon is charismatic and Obama is not, then I'm not sure I understand the meaning of the word.

He is figuring in quite strongly in my graduate studies. He does seem to be redefining charismatic, and he is obviously delivering a "left handed compliment" at Obama, and even in some sense to JFK, who seemed to develop a retrospective chrisma after his death.

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A lot of folks on the left are tuning out and dropping out of the system as well, especially post-bank bailout and post-health care fiasco. They're still there as well, but they're obviously not animated by racism unlike certain elements in America. The teabaggers are overblown beyond their numbers. They're no bigger, I dare say, than the number of workers who are involved with labor unions, but you don't see FOX News or CNN reporting on what the unions are doing on a daily basis now, do you?

Charismatic sure, but Obama's honesty leaves something to be desired.

Obama isn't charismatic to me personally but I think he is to more than a few people.

But then I learned long ago from bitter experience not to trust myself around people who appeal to me that way.

no charismatic and NOT tainted RW characters who can seize hold of the anger and angst on the right and mold it into a movement, as Hitler did in Weimar Germany.

The sociologist Max Weber defined charisma as "a certain quality of an individual personality, by virtue of which he is set apart from ordinary men and treated as endowed with supernatural, superhuman, or at least specifically exceptional powers or qualities. These are such as are not accessible to the ordinary person, but are regarded as of divine origin or as exemplary, and on the basis of them the individual concerned is treated as a leader <...> How the quality in question would be ultimately judged from an ethical, aesthetic, or other such point of view is naturally indifferent for the purpose of definition."

Charismatic leaders make people weep to see them, not due to the content of their speech but for the gift of their presence. Charisma shuts off the logic in the believer's mind and taps into pure emotion. Charisma, in the sociological sense, which is how Chomsky probably meant it, is a quality of cult leaders, and not usually associated with people who have depth and intellect. Sarah Palin is much more charismatic than Obama.

Calling Chomsky an idiot shows how shallow some people's *real* political and historical education is.

:eyes:

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And they certainly do touch on race, "There it was the Jews. Here it will be the illegal immigrants and the blacks. We will be told that white males are a persecuted minority."

You made two errors in interpretation and you have the gall to call Chomsky an idiot?

While race plays a part in Teabagger dissatisfaction, it's not the only dynamic and much of their anger has been misdirected, distorted and magnified by the corporate media propaganda machine.

"States Rights" for example is codeword for three different things.

1. To many liberals, progressives or Northerners it can only mean racism or slavery.

2. To the average Teabagger Conservative Libertarian type; it can mean that but it can also mean a movement away from Orwellian Big Brother government.

3. To the powers that be; pulling the strings it's a Pavlovian Bell Word used to create an emotional knee jerk reaction for dividing and conquering purposes of the American People and it's camouflage to hide their true allegiance to Corporate Supremacy or corporate rights over the government whether state or federal and in turn over the people.

People want to know why the Teabaggers weren't protesting under Bush? It's because the corporate media didn't ring their Pavlovian Bell.

Simply put, many of those people have been brain washed, Chomsky knows it and the corporate media know it but some of their anger is legitimate.

Obama has proven to be less than honest and those of us who believed what he served up as a candidate are pretty angry now.

... he's just another corporatist. You don't understand Chomsky at all if you think Obama qualifies.

I think he meant no charismatic demagouge from the right wing has arisen. Your gotcha is somewhat lacking since I don't think he was referring to elected officials from the squishy democratic center which, while not threatening to the corporate structure are not dangerous.

And for the record while I agree that race is a part of the teabagger problem, there actually is an unemployment problem and a debt problem and a problem with the economy outside of Wallstreet.

That alone should be telling for anybody who follows Chomsky with any regularity.

in response to the lies enshrined in America's Bill of Rights & Constitution - a people cannot be lied to forever by Robber Barron liars without developing a relationship with disrespect toward institutionalized, codified socio-economic injustice. But why do Socialist' forever pine for weeks off in the countryside at government expense?

What Socialists and people enamored with such notions do not want to admit anymore; is that even a seamstress in a Communist country needs a dress to hem


Cause we've already seen the gray tunic/blue tunic bizz model fade away even by the people that lived it by Mao's little book.

attitude in America. They are nothing but attack dogs set out to rouse blame hatred and division in order for a Plutocracy to gain economic power at our expense.

Donald Segretti/Lee Atwater Dinner Theater Playhouse

to Noam.

Welcome to DU. :hi:

Thanks for the thread, kpete.:thumbsup:

if things are going to get better. We have been fed propaganda from the left and right for decades now. Media is only in the entertainment business and information is a distant after thought. We've collectively been lazy for the past few years. How is it that the right wing teabaggers are the ones protesting corparate interests? This should clearly be a left wing populist movement issue. The tea baggers are right about 1 thing though we are losing freedom but it's not because Obama. It's because since Nixon the country was all too willing to trade freedom for conservative stability. It's past time for a liberal march on Washington because our voices clearly aren't being heard in the so called national debate.

the msm is liberal. It isn't. We are only getting the teabagger view. Don't let anyone tell you different. Rightwing media is the flint that will start a civil war in this country.

Maybe he's hanging around too many teabaggers? I'm not seeing what he's seeing, but then again, I'm not hanging around angry teabaggers.

many of of us are angry for legitimate reasons

It's crazy to compare this to the 30s - unemployment is nowhere near, there isn't the spectre of world war. In terms of the general sense of chaos it's not even close to the late 60s or the economic turmoil of the late 70s, early 80s.

Sorry, LOVE the generative grammar stuff, but way off on this one.

along with the spectre of global climate change creates a sense of doom that permeates the culture in ways that eclipse those previous tumultuous times, in some respects.

“I have never seen anything like this in my lifetime,” Chomsky added. “I am old enough to remember the 1930s. My whole family was unemployed. There were far more desperate conditions than today..."

He actually acknowledges things are not as desperate as in the 30's and goes on to say that despite this there is less hope. I am not sure whether or not you are contradicting what he said or if you didn't bother to read the entire article.

I'm sorry if this comes off as a bit annoyed but I find far too many people that have an logically unjustifiable negative reaction to Chompsky that seem to spam post whenever his name comes up.

Chomsky says things you'll never hear reported by the MSM.

Its true...look at the shallow charisma of W.

And yet, he lured so many of the middle class, only to stab them with his economic policies.

They put him in office because he knew how to talk the talk.

Having enjoyed all the creature comforts since his youth, and getting used to them, it creates a populace not to eager to really lift a finger to do anything. Even when it's never been so essential to act.

Wait until gas prices rise toward $10 per gallon and above....

Being scientifically illiterate, ill informed and accepting of propaganda, pretty much anything could happen.

teabaggers - against the press, against the torture, against invasion, against the thieves, against the decisions to invade and go to war for profit, for selling our companies, jobs, technology, real estate our from under us and for the profit of a few. Investment crimes, the theft of privacy.

We would have much in common with teabaggers, but it would take them a long time to get it. It might require SOME of them to relinquish some bigotry of Mexican, Moslems, and Black Americans and foreigners.

Yes. From the bottom up. We're in this together with the teabaggers. We have the better vision. We have the better analytical habit. We are not as brain washed. with false patriotism. We don't suffer paranoia about guns and abortion. We take in more people and embrace them.

It is surmountable.

From the BOTTOM UP. Wonderfully simple. Absolutely important.

How is it that the GOP is so strong in the polls? It seems like all they ever do is block every single thing Obama tries to do, no matter what it is. Then people complain that Washington isn't doing anything and even use that as the reason for supporting the GOP. Yet they're the very ones who blocked it and their ideas helped cause the mess we're in. It doesn't make any sense at all. I'm not talking independents too, not the teabaggers.

to have good numbers but only after driving all the other stock down with lies & BS