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Political Tiger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 12:59 PM
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Church and State - The Founding Fathers View
"The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion." -Treaty of Tripoli (June 7, 1797), signed by John Adams

"Twenty times in the course of my late reading, have I been upon the point of breaking out, this would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it." -John Adams (letter to Charles Cushing, October 19, 1756)

"I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!" -John Adams (letter to Thomas Jefferson)

"Thirteen governments thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, and which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind." -John Adams

"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and State." -Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Danbury Baprists, Jan/1/1802

"...an amendment was proposed by inserting the words, Jesus Christ...the holy author of our religion, which was rejected By a great majority in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and the Mohammedan, the Hindoo and the Infidel of every denomination." -Thomas Jefferson

"Our civil rights have no dependence on our religious opinions, more than on our opinions in physics and geometry" -Thomas Jefferson

"Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law" -Thomas Jefferson

"In every country and in every age the priest has been hostile to liberty; he is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own." -Thomas Jefferson

"The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for enslaving mankind ... to filch wealth and power to themselves. , in fact, constitute the real Anti-Christ." -Thomas Jefferson

"It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no God." -Thomas Jefferson

"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." -Thomas Jefferson

"Christianity...(has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on man. ...Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and importers led by Paul, the first great corrupter of the teaching of Jesus." -Thomas Jefferson

"I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth." -Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Short

"very one must act according to the dictates of his own reason, and mine tells me that civil powers alone have been given to the President of the U.S. and no authority to direct the religious exercises of his constituents."
-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Rev. Samuel Miller, January 23, 1808

"I never will, by any word or act, bow to the shrine of intolerance or admit a right of inquiry into the religious opinions of others. We ought with one heart and one hand to hew down the daring and dangerous efforts of those who would seduce the public opinion to substitute itself into that tyranny over religious faith which the laws have so justly abdicated."
-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Edward Dowse, April 19, 1803

"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes."
-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Alexander von Humboldt, December 6, 1813

"Of all the animosities which have existed among mankind, those which are caused by difference of sentiments in religion appear to be the most inveterate and distressing, and ought most to be deprecated. I was in hopes that the enlightened and liberal policy, which has marked the present age, would at least have reconciled Christians of every denomination so far that we should never again see the religious disputes carried to such a pitch as to endanger the peace of society." -George Washington (letter to Edward Newenham, October 20, 1792)

"Religious controversies are always productive of more acrimony and irreconcilable hatreds than those which spring from any other cause." -George Washington (letter to Sir Edward Newenham, June 22, 1792)

"...the path of true piety is so plain as to require but little political direction." -George Washington, (1789, responding to clergy complaints that the Constitution lacked mention of Jesus Christ)

"...I beg you be persuaded that no one would be more zealous than myself to establish effectual barriers against the horrors of spiritual tyranny, and every species of religious persecution." -George Washington (to United Baptists Churches of Virginia, May, 1789)

"The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe in blood for centuries" -James Madison

"Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together." -James Madison

"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise....During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution." -James Madison

"What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had on civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the thrones of political tyranny. In no instance have they been seen as the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty have found in the clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy." -James Madison

"The civil rights of none shall be abridged on account of religious belief or worship, nor shall any national religion be established, nor shall the full and equal rights of conscience be in any manner, or on any pretence, infringed.'' - James Madison (Original wording of the First Amendment; Annals of Congress 434 (June 8, 1789)

"he number, the industry, and the morality of the Priesthood, & the devotion of the people have been manifestly increased by the total separation of the Church from the State."
-James Madison, Letter to Robert Walsh, March 2, 1819

"The experience of the United States is a happy disproof of the error so long rooted in the unenlightened minds of well-meaning Christians, as well as in the corrupt hearts of persecuting usurpers, that without legal incorporation of religious and civil polity, neither could be supported. A mutual independence is found most friendly to practical Religion, to social harmony, and to political prosperity."
-James Madison, Letter to F.L. Schaeffer, Dec. 3, 1821

"We are teaching the world the great truth that Govts. do better without Kings & Nobles than with them. The merit will be doubled by the other lesson that Religion flourishes in greater purity, without than with the aid of Govt."
-James Madison, Letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish Church, by the Roman Church, by the Greek Church, by the Turkish Church, by the Protestant Church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church." -Thomas Paine

"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of....Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and of my own part, I disbelieve them all." -Thomas Paine

"All natural institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit." -Thomas Paine

"Accustom a people to believe that priests and clergy can forgive sins ... and you will have sins in abundance. I would not dare to dishonor my Creator's name by it to this filthy book ." -Thomas Paine

"The most detestable wickedness, the most horrid cruelties, and the greatest miseries that have afflicted the human race have had their origin in this thing called revelation, or revealed religion." -Thomas Paine

"When a Religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its Professors are obliged to call for help of the Civil Power, it is a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one." - Benjamin Franklin (from a letter to Richard Price, October 9, 1780)

"That religion, or the duty we owe to our Creator, and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence; and therefore all men are equally entitled to the free exercise of religion, according to the dictates of conscience." - Patrick Henry (Virginia Bill of Rights, June 12, 1776.)
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 01:02 PM
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1. Damn godless commie socialists!
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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 01:04 PM
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2. Whhaaaaa??? Sarah Palin was WRONG?
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Kingofalldems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 01:06 PM
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3. Sarah reached back in time and changed the entire history of the USA
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 01:07 PM
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4. KNR...and when some bagger says the founding fathers were Christian...ask them
what denomination of Christianity they were...I mean, if you want to have some sputter in your face.
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 01:13 PM
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5. "Question with boldness . . . ."
Damn! I can't believe Jefferson stole that from Glenn Beck!

Of course, it doesn't mean what Beck THINKS it means . . . :rofl:
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Froward69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 01:13 PM
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6. Book marked Thank you.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 01:15 PM
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7. There is this book ot a couple of years ago called the Faith of the Founding Fathers...
It's a great read.

The people who support a religious view of America focus on the trapping, the minister saying a prayer before the opening of congress et al, and pay almost no heed to the mountain of evidence that the fathers wanted this country to not be bogged down in the mystery and myth of religion.
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SalviaBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 01:18 PM
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8. I have also bookmarked and recommended. Thanks
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Snarkoleptic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 01:18 PM
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9. Cue RW heads exploding.
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HopeHoops Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 01:41 PM
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10. Because red-blooded white Americans don't have any ancestors who were immigrants.
Um, wait. Maybe the racists should rethink that one.

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Zomby Woof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-10 01:53 PM
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11. Great quotes
When the Second Continental Congress adopted a resolution which offered prayer for the troops, and specifically mentioned Jesus in the prayer, Washington did convey the message of prayer to his troops, but purposely omitted any mention of Jesus when doing so. Not all of his troops were Christian, and he felt it wasn't his business (nor the Congress's) to push Jesus on them. I suppose one could tell Palin this, but like other brainwashed ignorant twits, it would be dismissed.
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