Honest Question....Can you be against illegal immigration and still be a liberal?

It seems as if you are against illegal immigration you are automatically labeled a repuke!

I honestly think that you need some control over immigration. You cannot let people come into this country at will. Controlling the borders is not a bad thing.

I don't think that having people sneak across the border where they have no legal status and are forced to earn below wages is a good system.

I suspect of us want to see these immigrants given a path to citizenship.

The laws against trespassing are completely reasonable.

I'm sure most countries would expect foreigners to enter legally and would punish those who choose not to.

And it does bother me that the first act of undocumented people coming here is to break the law

not be tolerated. If the law itself is bad, it should be changed.

In this case (immigration) there are methods whereby folks can come in legally. If they choose to circumvent the system, they are breaking current laws.

It took her entire family (mom, dad, 5 siblings) about 10 years to all legally immigrate to New York. I'm all for LEGAL immigration. Illegal immigration is not fair to those who do things the right way.

I have a lot of friends with the same stories.

I thought that went against our principles, but apparently I was mistaken, as evidenced by the amount of support I see for union-busting, "free" trade, and labor arbitrage around here.

I thought that went against our principles, but apparently I was mistaken.

Illegal immigration does contribute to wage suppression and there's no doubt that many illegal immigrants are exploited.

Because there are priorities and all, and the amount that people emphasize opposition to illegal immigration can be disproportionate to what a liberal agenda should be. Should not a liberal be more concerned about the underlying causes that proliferate illegal immigration (like free trade, subsidies, international standard of living of "trading partners", etc)?

Building fences will not stop immigration as quickly as ending policies that hurt the lower classes in both countries

People have many different ideas on how to control immigration fairly and how to best handle the undocumented people we have here now.

I'll use myself as an example: I am for border controls, I am for worker programs to fill jobs that aren't being filled by citizens as long as someone is making sure they are treated fairly, I am for helping those here gain citizenship as long as they are not violent felons. I am against illegal workers as they undercut wages AND have no job security/protections. I would rather see them be able to work legally so they are not being exploited by employers.

It's a difficult topic and brings out the passion in people.

Every sovereign nation should protect their borders. BUT there should be a fair and expedient way for those wishing to enter and maybe become citizens to do so. We can't admit everyone though so there does need to be some reasonable boundaries.

It is too bad that each side draws lines in the sand.

but the immigration laws should be actively, fairly and humanely enforced against ALL illegal immigrants, not just the black, brown and tan illegal immigrants.

If Canadians are here illegally, if Irish people are here illegally, if British or French people are here illegally, they should be sought with as much intensity as the black, brown and tan people illegal immigrants appear to be sought.

I tend to have more sympathy than most for people who are so desperate for a better life that they would feel the need to sneak into the country, but clearly we can't be expected to throw open the borders for anyone who wants to come here.

The ones I really feel sorry for are the young kids who are brought here by their parents and basically grow up in the US. They can't legally work here but they have no real connection to their home country so they end up in this sort of limbo.

no clue what you do there, mostly I blame their parents for putting them in that position

because illegal aliens will work for peanuts and never insist on their rights. It's been a perfect way to destroy unions in this country, especially construction trade unions and the meatpacker and garment worker unions.

I have a great deal of sympathy for exploited workers everywhere, especially for the illegal aliens who were imported during the last administration, risking their lives to cross the border and being picked up at assigned places to be packed into trucks with no food, water or sanitation to be delivered according to contract to employers all over the country.

I have no sympathy for any scumbag who has hired them as a way to get cheap, docile labor. None. I have no sympathy for anyone in the last administration who refused to enforce the laws on the books that fined scumbag employers for hiring and exploiting them. Zero.

I think you've been misreading sentiment on DU. Most of us have a great deal of sympathy for the workers. It's the bosses and the last administration who are the problems, not the people who are risking their lives for a better one.

from Latin America is to stop actively subverting their democracies as we just did in Honduras. Btw, a sixth journalist was just killed there since March 1.

To me, the question gets turned around to "What measures are you willing to take to enforce the law on undocumented immigation?" For example, the Arizona legislature has just passed a law requiring police to question people if they have a "reasonable suspicion" that that person is an illegal immigrant. And if citizens don't think their local constabulary are meeting the law's requirements, they can sue their city to get with the program.

Is that something you're willing to sign onto in order to limit or stop illegal immigration? Now, of course, I trust explicitly the good judgment of my fellow DUers, and I know that none of them would ever use such a law as license for mandatory random harrassment of "suspicious" persons by the police ("Papers, please"). But I don't think every Arizonan is a member of DU.

I am a liberal leaning Independent. I am the offspring of a parent who immigrated here legally.

I am by blood 1/2 canadian, as that is where my mother was born, and from where she applied for legal immigration. Heck, even my Irish grandfather immigrated to Canada legally.

It is the choice of the person coming to a different country to either do it legally or illegally. My position is that if you have done it illegally, you remain a trespasser here no matter how long the duration of your stay. The same way it would be for me, if I attempted to stay permanently in any other country, without going through any procedure to obtain citizenship there.

If the rules are too stringent, or the cost too great, then perhaps I will not be able to become a citizen of another country. I can apply elsewhere, or stay in my home country, or if the circumstances are such that I need to choose to come over and stay in that country illegally, I can do so.

But the mere act of physically making it past another country's borders does not and never should make me an automatic citizen of that country. I would't even consider myself an "illegal immigrant." I am just a non-citizen who isn't even playing by any visa or other short term stay laws. If I don't follow their immigration policy, then I don't have a right to be in that country in the place, and I haven't "immigrated" anywhere in actuality.

I will never be okay with people who think they can skirt the rules on something as important as how our country determines who its citizens are. If we need to make some adjustments to our immigration policy, then that is the real issue.

I might not be certain people's strict definition of a liberal, but I am not a lot people's strict definition of many other things either. I know what a "not liberal" is, and I am not that at all.

We have young people in our country who are here because their parents came here undocumented when they were babies or young children. Today these young people are good citizens and many are very bright and socially productive citizens. They can't get citizenship because if they apply they will be sent to a country they don't know, be denied citizenship chances for 10 years, and then when they can apply, they likely will be refused.

We are even deported veterans who served and got out of the military. I had one such veteran on my show who was awarded a medal by President Clinton for saving his commander in Kosovo but got deported a month or so ago because he had a check bounce. This is the type laws we need to change.

I think that most people here just want to deal with the existing situation in a more humane way than the 'round up all the brownies and drag them back across the border' gang.

But they shouldn't be demonized and scapegoated as the cause of all our national ills.

I think a more effective way of discouraging it would be to go after employers who use and misue illegal labor (think Wal-mart locking people in overnight). We focus too much on going after individuals now, in my opinion.

that would be false.

considering that those most in favor of illegal immigration are those who use and abuse undocumented workers...

me personally, I'm all for throwing the book at those who hire illegals

But that doesn't mean that I think we should be throwing the people already in the country to the wolves.
Find a path to allow them to become legal especially if they have children borne in this country.
And shutdown the pipeline bringing more illegal immigrants in.
And the convicted criminals among them should be deported.

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Michael Palin from Monty Python fame

but the emphasis needs to be on the employers, no jobs=few illegals

though - I remember a Chinese man who was interviewed by the local paper and he stated he was in the US illegally, attempting to get legal status as a political dissident in China.
Thanks to that article, he was deported to China.
I think we must start to use a little sense and see people as individuals and judge each case on its own merits.


mark

to think otherwise is to buy into a blatantly false GOP lie

As others have pointed it out it's a hugely complicated issue and the debate usually centers on what to do with them once they're here. Should crossing the border be some kind of free pass: once they're here they can stay? Do we send them back if they're caught? What if they have kids? Should they be able to take advantage of all the same social services we do? Do we make laws against hiring them? If so, do we enforce them? How? INS raids? If we don't think they should be coming here illegally then what's so bad about the Minutemen, high tech fences with night-vision cameras, etc.? Is it a threat to national security? Are terrorists getting into the country?

I think reasonable liberals can debate all of these issues and still be liberal.

I agree with your OP 100%.

If there is no demand for underpaid, overworked, poorly treated workers, then people will quit risking their lives for jobs that no longer exist. The companies that hire these workers are the real problem; not the workers themselves.

If these companies can't/won't be punished, at least make them pay their workers better and treat them better (safe work conditions, bathroom breaks, etc).