Allowing republicans to post their opinion on DU.

Is there any particular reason why republican opinions are not allowed on DU? I for one think that it could lead to actual discussion on matters rather than pointless KnR threads where most share the same opinion. It might even enlighten some of the opposition to actually see what the democrats really are about rather than just what the Fox news purports us to be.

I'm rather new here and is there something I'm missing here?

John.

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

This is not "let's chat with Republicans underground." HTH HAND

http://www.democraticunderground.com/about.html


They have their own sandboxes.

IMO, they are of one and the same ilk.

the name of the site.

:hi:

Welcome to DU!

Why? Because this is the DEMOCRATIC Underground. It is a site where only Democrats may be supported.

We do have some Republicans as members. This is OK.

If you want a place where both parties can be supported, then you'll have to find it. DU is not that place.

The Administrators have decreed that this shall be the case here; they set the rules.

:hi:

They are often the KnR posts.

Bwahahahaha!

:rofl:

We were created to fight the very thing you are inquiring about. We know all the Republican arguments and talking points. We did not need obstacles that simply block needed discussion. It's been proven to be a waste of time. Do not mistake this site as one where there are no opposing opinions. There are many and on almost every subject.

tax cuts.

There are also likely several republicans here.

They're all over the place.

Most republican talking points are nothing but disruptions. They offer nothing of real value..We have had a decade of Republican rule and look what it did for our country..

There are other sites on the web that allow all viewpoints to be expressed. Allowing right wing viewpoints on DU would be counterproductive to the goals of the community.

...people who crochet hated America.

:hi:

DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND
:evilgrin:

The longer answer is that for the most part, we're pretty aware of what the Republicans are thinking and saying, and why they're saying what they're saying. You really can't get away from it, if you're a political junkie (which most of us are) who consumes the product of the popular media (which most of us do). We figure there's enough explication from the Republicans, and this site is more for discussion of issues from a liberal/progressive point of view, which we think is underrepresented in the popular media.

What happens after that is probably different for each individual participant. I like to use DU as a source of information, and an incubator for ideas, letting them mature and ripen before taking them out on the road, so to speak. It's also a neat place to swipe stuff, from good ways to express what I'm thinking to pithy bon mots (no, really!).

No one would have to go into the forum unless they wanted to. Maybe it could be exempt from the latest page so as not the offend the easily offended.

eta: But I approve of the general philosophy that this is a sight for Democrats and supportive progressives.

:7

The rules that you were supposed to read just before you signed up.

I have resigned myself to the fact that even if I were to hold it up to their faces and show them the flames, most republicans would refuse to admit that their hand was indeed, on fire. And the only real reason they would deny it to be true is because a librul said it.

Actual discussion went out the window long ago. See: Youthful Indiscretion. See: McCarthy was doing the right thing. See: The last 8 years of 'Murkin problems being Clinton's fult. See: How it still is. See: How Obama's now to blame for all that went wrong in the last 30 years of American History.

I can talk to my alarm clock and get better discourse. Who needs the aggravation. I know I don't.

exorcisms. Democrats are represented by the color blue because we can talk and talk and talk until we are blue in the face but 99% of the time it does absolutely no good. People hear only what they want to hear. On the other side, you have the color red as in red in the face because they don't like to hear the truth and get very angry.

He must not have been interested in the answers??

I think it was an honest question by someone who doesn't realize that posting and running won't get you many friends.

you don't say.

He was actually just sticking his finger in the wind to see if what he spewed might not be mistaken for a fart.

Got bogged down with a nasty bug in one of the boards that my team was supposed to deliver last week. Just got back home.

I get it, this is a place where democrats gather to discuss their viewpoints before going public. I know that most of you guys know the republican talking points, but it seems that the republicans don't understand what our position is. I don't see how it could be done in accordance with DU rules though.

Democratic Underground is a public message board. Anyone can read it. The only password-protected forum is the Moderator's Forum. We're not hiding anything. We're not discussing viewpoints "before going public". Anyone with an Internet connection can come here and read what we have to say. However, if you want to post, you have to be a member and in order to remain a member, you have to abide by the http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html">rules.

The name "Underground" has more to do with the national sentiment towards Democrats at the time this board was created. During the beginning of the Bush years it was hard to be an "out" Democrat/Liberal, especially during the build-up to the Iraq war. Thanks to the previous administration's complete cock-up, that is no longer the case. This place was and is a haven for people like me that live in a heavy-red part of the country. In real life, I am surrounded by conservative, republican bullies and find that expressing my Democratic opinions, even now, not worth the effort. I come here to get away from that noise.

and if you have to be told the obvious, you might do better on one of the right-wing boards instead. I'm sure they would welcome an open discussion with you.

where you can be fairly certain your day is not ruined by the routine imposition of insanity upon it. There are plenty of disagreements among liberals and dems, so you don't have to go without argument. Just stupid craziness. We are just special that way.

Go to Yahoo Politics if you want to see what a "mixed" discussion board is like. Goes without saying, RW bullies run the place and drive the sane posters to distraction.

Both sides act childish and often resort to name calling and cussing.

Though the lesson I've learned from this is : Don't leave your thread hanging!

Most people here are very open-minded and, like you said, know all of the republican talking points, this is more for people who like to share like-minded ideas and information pertaining to Left perspectives. While I'm sure people affiliated with other parties are welcome here, RW talking points are not, and will most likely be shot down very quickly. No one here is looking to be "converted" and that is a big part of the safe (usually) atmosphere here.

A DUer can even propose that a Republican position on a particular issue may have some merit worth examining.

There are no well-reasoned policy arguments that are out of bounds, as long as they presented respectfully, and are intellectually honest and supported by factual data.

The rub for most Republicans is that their arguments generally fail to meet those last two criteria, and are therefore a waste of our time. If you know of any exceptions, you are welcome to post them.

sw

"It might even enlighten some of the opposition to actually see what the democrats really are about rather than just what the Fox news purports us to be."



If they're really that interested in what we think and what we're about, they can read what we have to say. They don't need to comment on it.


As far as any "discussion" that might ensue, I don't think so. Things get contentious enough between Democrats, let alone bringing Republicans into the mix.

As long as you're civil and factual, you're welcome to share your opinion.

The trouble is, the opposition is absolutely firm in their determination to avoid enlightenment.

It would be great if such a site exists, where Democrats and Republicans alike can civilly discuss the issues of the day and the great perceived chasms in our respective ideologies. But there is a reason you won't find such a site: very few interested people on either side have any interest in civility. When Americans are ready to talk to one another like adults, no doubt the internet will feature many sites to allow real and helpful debate. In the meantime, there is one political party in this country which features SOME adults, and that party is the Democrats.

Meanwhile, Republican opinions are certainly present, even if Republicans themselves are not overtly posting.

on why gays are going to ruin the military, why you should be entitled to make medical decisions regarding my uterus, why the rich are getting screwed while those in poverty are getting one over on the rest of us, why it's good we bombed Iraq because "muslins" are evil, why it's the god-given right of corporate CEOs to pollute my ground water without oversight, or whether all the green berets should immediately be deployed to Kenya to capture Obama's real birth certificate.

prior to the presidential election and then after.
There were lots of fireworks expressing the Democratic point of view and which candidate to support.
There really is plenty here to enlighten the opposition but - you know.

you left your thread to hang. Bye.

Or who believe he is a socialist.
Or who believe they are paying more in taxes, when they are paying less.
Or who are certain that Obama is going to grab their guns when he is clearly not.

There are other sites out there for those who want to fight all the damn time.

Democrats and liberals tend to be much more based in the real world and can analyze and modify their beliefs. Sadly, the modern repub cannot and is more and more defined and limited by their ideological straight jacket.

A repub stating that the world is flat and then calling me a fascist, communist, terrorist, pig that should be killed after I say that science shows that the world is round is not a discussion of an opinion. It's a spin off of an old Monty Python skit and a waste of everyone's time.

In case you think this is just a repub bashing post, I'm old enough to have know real repubs that had ideas based along the lines of Ike and even Barry Goldwater and you could trade ideas and evaluate positions with them. Hell, you could even find common ground and find things that both sides valued over their own party's plank.

The modern repub has just seen a 30 year real life experiment in applying their most conservative ideas fail on all accounts (cutting taxes, deregulation, police powers, invasions, anti-conservation, etc.) and the real debate is over and all they can't accept it and all they are left with is fanatical and willful avoidance of facts and condemnation of anyone who dares to point it out to them.

THEM! I can just about guarantee that each and every one of us has made the futile attempt to educate and reform repukes, at some point in time. NO THANKS!!

It'll give you a clue.

the problem was that you got the extremes on one side going at it with the extremes on the other and it never stopped. It did stop much meaningful discussion however. The problem wasn't that there were people on the far left or the far right, it was that many of those people (though not all) did not want to debate, they wanted to shout, scream, and be a pain. They would never address each other's points, in fact, they rarely made points either. It was all just raw emotion and "I'm right, you're wrong!" There was some great discussion hidden in there by those willing to engage in it, but it was easy to get drowned out.

I guess the problem would be how to only keep those who would engage in rational discussion. There are no rules here against irrational discussion, and it would be impossible to enforce anyways.

One poster said something about maybe allowing one forum for Republicans to engage in, but it would have to be heavily regulated. Of course, if it was done right, it would be a good thing. Just ban any Republicans who are not there to engage in earnest, respectful discussion. Of course, they'd probably complain that the same isn't done to Democrats that don't want to, but I guess that's what you get with homefield advantage. Personally, I'm guessing many posters would hate the idea of that forum though and would never allow it. I'm guessing the DU owners would be afraid of losing a lot of their membership by doing something like that, and they could. And unless Democrats were held to the same standards as Republicans in the forum, it wouldn't work either. I guess you would have to make it so that you could be banned from a specific forum but not from the whole site?

It would be an opportunity to reach out to Republicans who read this site and are genuinely interested in Democrat's opinions. If they disagree with a point currently, they can't express it. If they had a chance to, they might get an answer that they would learn a lot from.

As it is, there is enough of a spectrum from moderate Democrats to the far left that there is a lot of debate in here, even on what would traditionally be seen as "Republian" ideas. Enough debate that Republicans should be able to learn something from it, even if they can't post.

You would probably need a different site devoted to such discussions, and I haven't looked for one out there but they may exist. As for their quality, who knows?

Political discourse does seem to get out of hand even in public settings, I'd hate to see that in anonymous forums like DU. A separate forum sounds like a splendid idea, but how far it would go until it turns ugly is up to anybody's guess.

I don't see any factual debates that would clear up most of the differences. Maybe I'm being naive to think that the average Republican is just misguided by loud and fear mongering voices of the right wing.

John.

You'll see all the right-wing views you could ask for.

In the past I used to post on a political board that carried Republicans and Independents, Democrats,
but it was tiresome, as most Republicans would use World Nut Daily as a source and be offended when they
were challenged, lol.

A few were intelligent and thoughtful posters, but no where near enough so to keep me interested. Not everyone
here agrees on every issue, there is a great deal of diversity.


And welcome to DU :hi:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html

Most of us come here to work together and as a break from those numerous other forums.

If I wanted "dialogue" with republicans I'd go to some bipartisan forum. I have come to the conclusion that there are very few republicans worth trying to dialogue with, and now prefer to come to a site where fellow Democrats can formulate strategies and hone their views and rhetoric.

Sorry, but the whole "lets work together" thing never panned out and its largely the fault of the elephants. As such, I have no time for them or desire to understand their views. I understand them all too well.

:hi:

The site's name should say it all.

then it might be informative - but they don't think or comprehend so it is hard to discuss anything - they can't listen or believe in the truth

Last decent republican worth listeneing to.

No one since that isn't a tool of the billionaires.

Anybody can post here as long as they respect the rules.

That clip is a spot-on illustration of the tenor of the debate. When you try to discuss differences with (many*) Republicans, you won't get names or facts, but an ill-informed, ill-spirited, and dishonest response. Finally one must ask, "Why bother?"

Welcome to DU! :hi:

*broad brush disclaimer. I'm sure there are reasonable Republicans left. I just haven't met one who cares to discuss politics.


ETA link to video, in case you missed this gem.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036789/ns/msnbc_tv-morning_joe#36661453

I just think maybe the cover of anonymity might cause them to shed the group mentality and start thinking on their own when they look at differing viewpoints and facts.

Welcome to DU.... DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND. :hi: We get enough diversity of opinions here without letting in the party of NO!. This is herding cats. Cats bite, scratch and sometimes stink up the litter box. We have enough to deal with without allowing republican views too.

But stick around, at some point you will probably be called a republican. Happens to most of us when we disagree with someone who is a tad out of sorts for whatever reason

No need to introduce even more disagreements.

I just turn over a rock or two in my back yard.

Republican views. If you want to express Republican views go to the Free Republic. They will be happy to accommodate you. This is the Democratic Underground. While many different views are expressed during discussion this is not the Republican Underground. You could always start your own forum if you don't like this one.

Stick around, you'll see what I mean. Or if you want to speed the process up, go down to the DU Guns forum, where Democrat-trashing is an article of faith.....

/

As long as you present them as "centrist" or "moderate".

down our throats on the M$M and so many other places. This is a place of refuge for us.

But also because today Republicans tend to not have "opinions" but merely regurgitate the party talking point. I long for the old days when a Republican and a Democrat (or even a Liberal Independent such as myself) could have a real discussion on the issues. I beleive such an open discussion elevates both and is key to reaching a more enlightened conclusion.

But Republicans have become obsessed with power, and they refuse to have a "reasonable" discussion because that may mean they have to "compromise". IMHO, a reasonable compromise is the best result we can hope for. But Republicans want personal power, not what is best for the Country.

The same could be argued for SOME Democrats. But at least most Democrats still care about what is best for the people. Republicans, OTOH, have decided to walk in lockstep because they believe that's the only way they can regain power. They don't know how to have a reasonable discussion anymore.

And if you read enough DU threads, you will see that Republican "opinions" are well represented - and exposed.

There will not be intelligent discussion. Let that happen off and on on other spaces.

There are as much fucking nutbags on this site as there are on FR. Time to grow up and realize that humanity abuses its authority whenever it can be it right or left. Your very statement is an example of how, if you had your way, any dissident thought is considered able to be censored. Sad. Can't see the shadow within

What? I don't think any of my statements pointed towards censoring dissident thoughts. Quite the contrary, I wanted the other side to be expressed freely on DU. Your capability to twist my statements to arrive at your assumptions rivals that of FOX news.

I am glad for the clarification. I can only respond to what I read. Might want to take a look at that.

be saying that Hitler and a socialist and the regular bullshit. As it stands now we don't put up with much in the way of crap on the DU and I'm glad if the admin keeps it that way.

If I want to have my senses turned into a virtual sewer filled with non-sensical, ignorant, insane rants from cult-like creatures I could reverse the flow from the sewers to my toilets and into my home. But I prefer to be able to 'flush' and purge my home of the stench of conservative ignorance.

Listening to morons praising their right wing radio hosts as all knowing gods would be like taking a bath at a sewage processing plant. Why would I want to here conservatives blathering their nonsense?

That is the Republican opinion in a nutshell. They don't like that they lost the last Presidential election. So they have resurrected what they did with the last Democratic administration which was do to whatever they could to stop the President from accomplishing any of his goals. A bunch of two year olds whose vocabulary starts and ends with "NO!" The Democrats ought to use that clip of Boehner roaring like a madman, "Hell NO you can't!" in every ad they run this fall.

When a Republican actually does express an opinion other than "NO!", it's usually one of two things. It is a complete lie, such as "Obama death panels will kill Granny" or the current Wall Street reform legislation will guarantee endless future taxpayer funded bailouts of giant Wall Street banks, while the bill does no such thing and actually makes these payments illegal. And, of course, President Obama (try saying that; it's not hard) is a Nazi and a Communist and a Socialist who resembles either Hitler, Mao Zedong, or the Joker, and was born in Mombasa, Kenya back when Mombasa wasn't even in Kenya, who was and still is a Muslim.

The other set of Republican opinions are on topics opposed by the majority of Americans. The majority of Americans want the Public Option or even Single Payer, once they are sure what the terms mean. The Republicans went apoplectic muddying the issues surrounding health care reform until most Americans really didn't understand it and didn't want the mess that finally got passed. Many Republicans (the ones that will talk about it) oppose equal rights for gays (despite the 5th and 14th amendments guaranteeing equal treatment under the law for all Americans.) Many Republicans want everyone to believe in the exact same God they do in the exact same manner they do. Many Republicans want people to be able to buy any kind of gun they want, including military assault rifles, not to mention machine guns, RPGs, and bazookas, with no check to see if the potential gun owner is either insane or a felon, and to be able to carry these guns openly or concealed, and of course loaded. Some Republicans support secession. Most Republicans favor war over peace, even wars which weren't paid for, and decry social spending of any kind except that which helps their own state or district.

But worst of all, nearly all Republicans favor business and its interests over average Americans and theirs. In any conflict between Wall Street and Main Street, as far as Republicans are concerned, Wall Street is vastly more important and will always get their support. Why do you Republican hate ordinary Americans so much?

By the way, it's Democratic Party, not Democrat Party, a concept which seems too complex for most Republicans to grasp. Notice I didn't call your party Repukes or Repugnicans, as I sometimes do here

Besides, whenever my wife hears a Republican "idea" she gets very peevish. I and our cats all have to duck for cover and hide out for awhile. Just kidding, dear.

and secondly,

repugs have not made a good show here on du. they tend to say extreme, and there are rules of civility or tombstoned.

repugs can be on here, and have differing views. if you really take note of the board you will see all kinds of positions. without flagging themselves as repugs, they can discuss.... yet, they must stay civil. it is the point of not following rules they are tombstoned

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Why allow bald-face liars any room here? I for one think hardly any republicans can have an actual honest political discussion. But when they DU at times they get their words shoved down their throats.... They lose and then they get real ugly, real fast. Best we not allow DU to become polluted, eh?

that nobody ever took the time to explain to them the fallacies in their thinking. Poor ole right wingers just never have a chance to talk calmly about the issues with educated people.

Nope, they only listen to Rush and Beck and Fox because nobody else will talk to them.

Waaah!