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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-23-10 02:09 PM
Original message
Do you care about keeping abortions legal?
A couple women are making a documentary about 2 doctors who perform late-trimester abortions.


http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/410786032/trust-women-the-story-of-two-american-abortion-doc?ref=email

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/410786032/trust-wom...

OUR FILM

Trust Women tells the inspiring stories of Dr. LeRoy Carhart and Dr. Warren Hern, two of the last physicians in the country who continue to perform late-term abortions--a vital service that protects women's lives and health--despite constant harassment and threats. By making this film, we want to change the way people think about abortion doctors, and we need your contributions to make it happen.

SYNOPSIS

Since the election of President Obama, the American public’s support of abortion rights has dropped markedly, with a recent Pew Research poll suggesting that only 47% of Americans currently believe in a woman’s right to choose. Meanwhile, the murder of Dr. George Tiller in May 2009 was only the most recent in a long history of violent attacks on doctors who provide abortions, their clinics, and their staffs.

In the face of this growing anti-choice sentiment, our film will paint a vivid portrait of two courageous abortion providers who have continued to protect women’s reproductive rights, despite ongoing threats and harassment. The two men this documentary will focus on—Dr. Warren Hern and Dr. LeRoy Carhart—are also two of the last physicians in the country who provide third-trimester abortions for women as needed, making them the current number-one targets for anti-choice fanatics.

The sacrifices that these doctors make—from installing metal detectors in their clinics to avoiding restaurants and other public places—often go unnoticed. Similarly, the complicated medical and personal circumstances that lead many women to seek an abortion are frequently misrepresented or ignored.

This documentary will take audiences into the day-to-day lives of these inspiring doctors, providing audiences with a fresh perspective on this controversial issue. Rather than presenting these doctors as one-dimensional symbols of a divisive political battle, our film will use their everyday routines, personal convictions, and community relationships as gateways for understanding these brave individuals and the many women whose lives they touch.

WHY WE NEED YOUR HELP

We have met separately with Dr. Hern (who is in Boulder, Colorado) and Dr. Carhart (who is in Bellevue, Nebraska), and both of them are excited about the project and have agreed to provide us with as much access as possible.

However, we spent all the money that each of us had personally saved to go visit them and talk to them about the project. Now we need to raise money so that we can go back with a cinematographer over the next few months and officially start shooting.

Your donation will help us cover the costs of the trip, including travel to Omaha and Boulder and lodging, the cost of hiring a cinematographer, and other production costs involved in shooting the film
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-23-10 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yes. nt
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DesertFlower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-23-10 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
2. yes. nt
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paulsby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-23-10 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
3. i call bullshit
i'd like to see the specific question(s) asked in that pew poll, as i find it suspect that only 47% support a woman's right to an choose

by which standard? the rowe standard?

or some more expansive standard?

certainly, many if not most do not support (for example) abortion on demand in the 3rd trimester. does that make them anti-choice?

again, i'd like to see the exact questions

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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-23-10 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Here's a link to a pew thing, and more on the film. Only complaint you have is on pew? Huh
Edited on Fri Apr-23-10 02:30 PM by uppityperson
Link on PEW http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1212/abortion-gun-control-opinion-gender-gap
Edited to add this paragraph:"The proportion saying that abortion should be legal in all or most cases has declined to 46% from 54% last August. The decline in support for legal abortion has come entirely in the share saying abortion should be legal in most cases (from 37% to 28%); 18% say abortion should be legal in all cases, which is virtually unchanged from last August (17%). Currently, 44% say abortion should be illegal in most (28%) or all cases (16%), up slightly since last August (41%)."

More about the film.
The phrase “late-term abortion” refers to an abortion that occurs later in pregnancy. Different people define late-term abortions as starting at different times, but for the purposes of our film, we are considering late-term abortions to be those that are performed in the third trimester, at 24 weeks or later into the pregnancy.

This is only a very tiny percentage of all abortions that are performed—according to the National Abortion Federation, fewer than 2% of all abortions are performed at 21 weeks and after, and abortions performed after 26 weeks are extremely rare.

Why do women need late-term abortions?

Although it varies by state, across the country all abortions performed after 26 weeks must be medically indicated—ie, they cannot be “elective” abortions.

Many late-term abortions are performed because of tragic fetal anomalies, such as a fetus developing without a brain. Often these pregnancies are not only planned, but very much wanted, making the decision to have an abortion even more painful for the women. Ultimately, however, these women have decided that terminating the pregnancy is the safest and best option for themselves and their families.

The remaining late-term abortions are performed because the life or health of the pregnant woman is seriously in danger. So no matter what the specific circumstances for each woman, late-term abortions are only performed when absolutely necessary.
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paulsby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-23-10 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. it's not the only complaint
but when an opinion piece starts out with an unsound premise, it means that even if the conclusion or opinion has merit, it is still suspect based on false premises.

and i don't have a complaint with pew. i am saying i am calling BULLSHIT that only 47% support right to choose

i suspect they are using a rather expansive view of "choice". one can cook a poll to prove ANYTHING if one plays with definitions in the way one wants, or is overly vague

and i just looked at the poll, and it confirmed my suspicions "abortion legal in ALL OR MOST CASES"

that's exactly the type of cooked question that leads to such results.

which was my point.



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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-23-10 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Are you calling bs on later term providers being endangered?I call bs on"on demand" 3rd tri abortion
Have you any comment on this? Quit using the bs "abortion on demand in the 3rd trimester" phrase.

From the pew report:
"Currently, 44% say abortion should be illegal in most (28%) or all cases (16%), up slightly since last August (41%)."

The phrase “late-term abortion” refers to an abortion that occurs later in pregnancy. Different people define late-term abortions as starting at different times, but for the purposes of our film, we are considering late-term abortions to be those that are performed in the third trimester, at 24 weeks or later into the pregnancy.

This is only a very tiny percentage of all abortions that are performed—according to the National Abortion Federation, fewer than 2% of all abortions are performed at 21 weeks and after, and abortions performed after 26 weeks are extremely rare.

Why do women need late-term abortions?

Although it varies by state, across the country all abortions performed after 26 weeks must be medically indicated—ie, they cannot be “elective” abortions.

Many late-term abortions are performed because of tragic fetal anomalies, such as a fetus developing without a brain. Often these pregnancies are not only planned, but very much wanted, making the decision to have an abortion even more painful for the women. Ultimately, however, these women have decided that terminating the pregnancy is the safest and best option for themselves and their families.

The remaining late-term abortions are performed because the life or health of the pregnant woman is seriously in danger. So no matter what the specific circumstances for each woman, late-term abortions are only performed when absolutely necessary.
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newtothegame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-23-10 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Bullshit? Does it really matter what the polls say? We need to stop obsessing...
about whether polls agree with us.

I've always been disturbed by the obsession with polls on here; the "DU'ing" polls especially. If polls are that important, why would we want to PURPOSELY skew a poll by flooding it with votes from this one website? :shrug:
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paulsby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-23-10 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. it matters when
an opinion piece DRAWS CONCLUSIONs from the poll results

i checked the poll question, and it was as i suspected

the question was abortion being legal in "ALL or MOST CASES"

they didn't reference a standard, e.g. on demand in first trimester, etc. but just said "all or most cases"

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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-23-10 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Do you disagree that docs providing abortions are threatened with violence?
Edited on Fri Apr-23-10 02:43 PM by uppityperson
Since that is the conclusion, you disagree with that?

"an opinion piece DRAWS CONCLUSIONs from the poll results."? Maybe you missed the word "suggesting"? And you are very wrong. It DRAWS CONCLUSIONS based on a whole lot of other things.

Do you disagree with "Meanwhile, the murder of Dr. George Tiller in May 2009 was only the most recent in a long history of violent attacks on doctors who provide abortions, their clinics, and their staffs."?

Do you disagree with "Dr. LeRoy Carhart and Dr. Warren Hern, two of the last physicians in the country who continue to perform late-term abortions--a vital service that protects women's lives and health--despite constant harassment and threats."?

Do you disagree that there is a "growing anti-choice sentiment"?

Do you disagree with any of this? "Meanwhile, the murder of Dr. George Tiller in May 2009 was only the most recent in a long history of violent attacks on doctors who provide abortions, their clinics, and their staffs.

In the face of this growing anti-choice sentiment, our film will paint a vivid portrait of two courageous abortion providers who have continued to protect women’s reproductive rights, despite ongoing threats and harassment. The two men this documentary will focus on—Dr. Warren Hern and Dr. LeRoy Carhart—are also two of the last physicians in the country who provide third-trimester abortions for women as needed, making them the current number-one targets for anti-choice fanatics.

The sacrifices that these doctors make—from installing metal detectors in their clinics to avoiding restaurants and other public places—often go unnoticed. Similarly, the complicated medical and personal circumstances that lead many women to seek an abortion are frequently misrepresented or ignored.

This documentary will take audiences into the day-to-day lives of these inspiring doctors, providing audiences with a fresh perspective on this controversial issue. Rather than presenting these doctors as one-dimensional symbols of a divisive political battle, our film will use their everyday routines, personal convictions, and community relationships as gateways for understanding these brave individuals and the many women whose lives they touch."
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paulsby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-23-10 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. of course i don't disagree with that,
but that has been true for decades, so it's hardly evidence of "growing" anything

and again, you are missing my point

even if i agree that there is growing anti-choice sentiment, it doesn't behoove anybody to support that conclusion by providing suspect arguments such that only 46% of americans are polling pro-choice
that's my point

again, EVEN IF THE CONCLUSION Is correct, it doesn't follow that presenting unsound evidence to support it is a good thing. i called bullshit, and i checked the poll... and it was bullshit


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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-23-10 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. You seriously don't think the public's support of abortion rights has dropped?
Seriously? Well then, no need to educate anyone about the realities of your "3rd trimester abortion on demand", is there?

Here I was, concerned about the qualifier "suggesting", and here you are saying that what "with a recent Pew Research poll suggesting" means, is a claim that supports the conclusion that more public education is necessary.
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paulsby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-23-10 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. i am simply saying that only 46% poll pro choice
is a bogus statistic

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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-23-10 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. They did say "suggests".
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paulsby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-23-10 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. ok, thaT's a nice hedge word. i will give them partial credit
the reality is that pro-choice is a majority belief in the US

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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-23-10 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Which "pro-choice" definition do you mean, with majority belief?
Edited on Fri Apr-23-10 04:48 PM by uppityperson
Edit to say , off to take a nap. Shingles sucks. Will be back later.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-23-10 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
10. Well, women must make prayerful decisions about abortion.
So I have heard.
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Proud Liberal Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-23-10 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
13. Yes
The right has a good gig going in regards to abortion. Many states have been able to throw up a ton of roadblocks in the way of women obtaining abortions- so much so that they almost don't really need an outright ban on it although one or two states have actually attempted to outright ban it in advance of a potential reversal of Roe V. Wade.

However, as Paul Begala noted in a book that he co-wrote with James Carville ("Take It Back"), banning abortion would probably be the worst thing that could happen to the anti-abortion crowd because the balance of energy and power would then (theoretically) shift to the pro-choice side and a lot of anti-abortion office holders are likely to get thrown out of office. While Roe V. Wade stands, the energy and enthusiasm seems to be mostly on the side of the anti-abortion crowd and they've figured out that they don't necessarily need to ban it (bad PR) but rather just make it as difficult as possible for women to get an abortion and they've achieved the same results. I'm surprised that there hasn't been more of a backlash against all of these restrictions everywhere and I wonder just how many more restrictions- short of a full ban- that most people are going to be willing to stomach before there is a backlash.

I have never understood how people feel so passionately about abortion that they feel like they need to advocate for restricting it for other people. The same goes for equal rights for all. Nobody is forcing people to get abortions and if somebody doesn't want one, then they are constitutionally protected in refusing it. However, I don't understand how, with everything going on and with everybody already busy just trying to make ends meet, some people seemingly have plenty of time to be "busybodies" and pontificate and tell OTHER PEOPLE how to live THEIR lives and conduct their own personal affairs. People shouldn't be busy making laws about preventing women from obtaining a LEGAL medical procedure or about who sleeps with whom but rather should be focusing on improving the lives of the people in their communities- which is, theoretically, what they were supposedly elected to do. The amount of time and money spent on this kind of nonsense could've been so much more helpful to the community and more people instead of pandering to a small but vocal minority of citizens that insist not only that they alone have the "right" answers about how to live one's life but also that they MUST inform and prescribe how other people are supposed to live their lives- irrespective of the fact that we are supposed to live in a FREE and Democratic (and secular) society not based on the rules/laws of a certain sect of a particular religious denomination.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-23-10 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. +1
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-23-10 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
19. kick for evening shift here in the usa and morning in europe and afternoon other places
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-23-10 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
20. their agenda won't end with abortion.
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