If you leave your home today, could you

PROVE you were an American citizen? Drivers' licenses aren't proof. Take out any laws passed by your state. How would you PROVE it?

Leave right now and assume you were stopped.

a "government" birth certificate-I was born in the 1940's and it wasn't uncommon not to have one.

Rec.
m

It doesn't seem to satisfy the would-be brownshirts.

My own birth certificate looks like President Obama's, only gold in color instead of green. I reckon mine wouldn't satisfy them either.

I wouldn't want them to be confused.

http://holocaust-forum.blogspot.com/2009/09/german-jews-were-ordered-to-wear-yellow.html

I thought maybe it stood for "Mutt", like I am (you know, a Heinz 57 type breed). Maybe I better stay out of Arizona cuz a lot of folks around here ask me if I'm a Hunky!

Maybe drape the Mexican Flag across the hood of your car in order to remove all doubt!

:evilgrin:

If that won't do it I have a copy of my DD-214 in the glove box.

President Obama held a ceremony to administer the oath to become a citizen to several this week. Does that document PROVE you are a citizen?

Since my DD-214 sez I served between 1963 ~ 1973 AND I'm still here, perhaps those good little Nazis will figure it out. I'm not into the Nazi mentality - fuck 'em in the pie hole.

Should I be arrested in a sweep (sound familiar?) that's all they will have to deal with. Hmmmmm. Maybe I can be a test case???? Wouldn't that make a great headline?

Is this fucking insane or what?

Non-citizens can serve.

No it doesn't. Passport? Need to renew anyway. I would make them dig up the papers eat green balogna and file suit when released. :hi:

Also, DOB and SSN.

Place is important. DOB and SSN, not so much.

Question: Does the AZ law specify what is acceptable proof of being in the country legally?

called his wife and she had to bring his birth certificate. This was before the law was enacted.

Plus, place of birth doesn't automatically indicate citizenship.

As someone said, the only way this works is if the 'state' issues papers for that purpose and requires they be carried at all times, you know as done in a dictatorship.

What I'm waiting for is some knuckle dragger rural cop to pull an "arrested while driving illegally brown" on an university professor, a cardiac surgeon, a unit commander at Davis-Monthan, a circuit court judge -- someone who can and will fight back

US Citizen = Born in the US?

Don't fall into that trap.

rabbit hole of insanity. I understand your point. However, how do you prove it? If you tried to travel across the US and were stopped in every state, would you have the correct proof according to that state's laws?

Citizenship is a federal question, not a state question.

who plays third base for the NY Mets. If he can't answer, demand his papers.

CMP, a sales outfit that delivers firearms to your door, sells to U.S. citizens.

For proof of citizenship, they require a birth certificate, passport, naturalization papers. Last time I checked, a 214 was not proof of citizenship.

On the other hand, they will accept a DD214 as proof of marksmanship.

http://www.thecmp.org/eligibility.htm

I wonder if the military checks your place of birth when you start, of if they just use what you tell them. It's been a while, I don't remember if I showed them a birth certificate.

It's easy to order a birth certificate.

My kids needed birth certificates both to get their driver's licenses and to travel to Canada. I also ordered one several years ago in order to go to Canada.

Could you prove it if you left your house right now and were stopped?

It used to be.

I don't know it would prove it either.

i do have my birth certificate but don't carry it with me. shouldn't have to it's safely put up with other vital papers.

identity theft. Catch 22.

and a poster here is saying how easy it is to get it: well, it is easy, but it takes time, weeks, and money, which not everyone has a lot to spare. AZ has passed one of the stupidest laws ever. it'll go down, i'm convinced, but it says a lot about the lawmakers that it passed and was signed. a lot that is not good.

I don't think too many people could. They would have to issue us National ID cards with proof of citizenship required at the time of issue. We would have to carry them all the time, every single time we went out. What does that remind you of? A nice Nazi can of worms.

Immigration regulation is under the control of the federal government. George Bush dismantled Immigration as we knew it. He broke the agency up and placed part of it under Homeland Security and the rest was left to float. It has been in disarray ever since. Still, the states do not have the right to usurp federal powers or to defy federal law. The Department of Justice should step in and put a stop to this. There has been way too much of it not only on this issue, but on others.

I cannot understand what harm people who hate immigrants think that they want to bring to us. We were all immigrants or descended from them unless we walked across that land bridge and settled here in prehistoric times. We all wanted the same thing. A better life, in a place where we could live free of this Arizona type of persecution and hatred. Every wave of immigrants went through hatred and intolerance. I still remember in school seeing old pictures which people had put in shop windows advertising jobs which said, "No Irish need apply." And so it goes. Are we ever going to outgrow this and see each other as human beings instead of living us against them until it destroys whatever good we have left in us?

just that you are here legally. According to Arizona, a drivers license is proof.

The new Arizona law allows state officials to inquire into the immigration status of any person based upon "reasonable suspicion":

For any lawful contact made by a law enforcement official or agency of this state or a county, city, town or other political subdivision of this state where reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States, a reasonable attempt shall be made, when practicable, to determine the immigration status of the person.

The statute also prohibits localities from adopting any policies that allow less than full enforcement of the immigration laws, thus prohibiting so-called sanctuary provisions.

Additionally, section 13-1509 provides that a person is guilty of the crime of trespassing if the person is both: "present on any public or private land in this state" and in violation of federal immigration statutes. The statute further provides that there is no eligibility for "suspension or commutation of sentence or release on any basis until the sentence imposed is served."
http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/conlaw/2010/04/arizona-immigration-law.html

I think that the theory is that your immigration status has been checked if you have a government form of ID. I'm not saying that I agree with what is being done, I don't. It stinks of racial profiling. But you don't have to carry around a birth certificate or a passport.

A driver's license pretty much functions as proof one is here legally.

So they can then push the chipping program. But that is only logical progression.

If you say for a person to exist, they must prove identity, then you have to have reliable system to make that work.


It is messed up on many levels.

but as an anglo, I would probably not be stopped for an ID check.

If this insanity continues, EVERY police intervention should START with "Show me your citizenship proof"...for EVERY SINGLE person....

Anyone who cannot produce it, should be taken to the nearest police station.

As stations fill up with people every day..angry litigious people, they will see the folly of the plan:)

But if it got lost, that would be a bonanza for an identity thief.

Brown skin = illegal doncha know?:puke:

Well it would work in Arizona I bet!

:sarcasm:

Then the answer is "non".

I'll just tell them that I'm French.

you over is aware of the minutia of DOD regs, ie can't reenlist unless you're a US citizen.

Plus, don't know about you, but the pic on my DDFm 2 bears little resemblance to the one I'm wearing today.

This is a ticket to harass and that's all it is.

I haven't changed that much.

Maybe, I should bone up on my Francais if I ever take a trip to AZ.

I'd LOVE to get a free trip back to the Riviera.

:evilgrin:

The only people that would be stopped are people that are, you know . . . .different, and America is not about being different. America is about freedom, and we have to protect our freedom from being taken from us by people that are different.

Soon we won't remember when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.

I would either have to carry my citizenship certificate, or else my American passport. But who does, on a daily basis??

who won the last Superbowl.


:7

all I have is a copy of my birth registration, and I never carry that with me.

However, if the teahadists have their way we would all need to have our papers in order.

where my birth certificate is

A driver's license is proof of legal presence in Arizona, and in most other states.

There's a lot of heat and not much light in these forums regarding the new Arizona immigration enforcement law. Most of us, including the author of the OP, don't appear to have even read it.

K&U

:kick:

I do *have* an up-to-date passport; however, I would not normally carry it with me. I worry about it being lost or stolen, especially since an incident last year, when my handbag was stolen in Amsterdam with my passport in it, and I needed to get an emergency one.

For other identification, I don't drive and so don't have a driving license; but I do have a workplace identity card. Neither would be a proof of citizenship, however.

There are plans afoot to require compulsory ID in the UK, i.e. ensure that the government keeps lots of data on its citizens AND probably loses it all on the train (as has happened more than once with such data!). As you'd expect, this is not a popular measure, and fortunately probably won't be pushed through if we get a hung parliament or very small-majority government of any party.

But we don't have anything like what's reported here from Arizona, which reminds me uncomfortably of the pass laws in apartheid South Africa.

I'd hate to have to carry it around all day, however.

That would be enough for some racist cop. Now if I were Hispanic and had brown skin...

SS card, Insurance card, car registration, CCW permit, Garage card, Library card, work ID.

Would any of those do the trick?

which I should really use to get the hell out here